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Official Pioneer SC-75/77/79 Thread - Page 11

post #301 of 691
Having tested all three models, there is no difference in sound quality, just features.
post #302 of 691
On my 1528 ( SC75) I have bi amp my main left and right speakers, which uses the extra amp outputs from the front high speakers. But now it only gives me the option of 7.1 but I had hope that the direct outputs on the receiver would still give me my front high speakers as i tried to run those outputs to an external amp . but i could see no way of turning them on , as they must be slaved to the amplifier channels of the receiver , because as soon as you pick the bi amp setting in the receiver set up the option of using front high speakers disappears from the set up.

Still trying to decide between this receiver and a Yamaha 303X or the cx-a500X, but i have tried neither of those in my house , I do like the pioneer , it does sound good , just wondering what system givers the more encompassing sound stage when using all 11.2 speakers.
post #303 of 691
If you prefer your sound to be produced as-is, then Pioneer is your answer. If you want to use 11.2 even if the source is not created in11.2 then Yamaha is the answer.
post #304 of 691
I accidentally ran across this article while looking for information on Dolby Bass Management: Bass Management and the LFE Channel

As a owner of an SC-77 running dual subwoofers, I found this paragraph to be of considerable interest (bold emphasis mine):
Quote:
4. There should be ONE, only ONE, and nothing but ONE audio connection between an AV controller and powered subwoofers. Some AV controllers offer an LFE-only output in addition to the subwoofer output, and some subwoofers offer multiple line-level inputs. Controllers with both LFE-only outputs and subwoofer outputs may tempt us to connect a separate subwoofer to each output and run one subwoofer for the LFE channel and another one for summed main-channel bass. This is an exceptionally bad idea in most cases, because we need both subwoofers playing the same thing, working together to cancel bass resonances. The most effective use of two subwoofers is to have them play the sum of the bass from the main channels and the occasional LFE hit. Bass character stays consistent throughout the movie, and the subwoofers are used to their full potential.

At least it makes me feel a little better about the SC-77 not having independently MCACC calibrated subwoofer outputs, although I know that is not specifically what it is addressing.
post #305 of 691
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

Having tested all three models, there is no difference in sound quality, just features.

So the Air Studios certification on the 77 and 79 is complete bunk?
post #306 of 691
They are not bunk, just the Air Studio sound signature is also shared down to the SC-75 but not "stamped" on it. Even the THX Ultra vs THX Select between 75/77/79, if you measure the actual audio output, there is no actual difference in power output between the three of them cool.gif
post #307 of 691
Quote:
Originally Posted by KC-Technerd View Post

I accidentally ran across this article while looking for information on Dolby Bass Management: Bass Management and the LFE Channel

As a owner of an SC-77 running dual subwoofers, I found this paragraph to be of considerable interest (bold emphasis mine):
Quote:
4. There should be ONE, only ONE, and nothing but ONE audio connection between an AV controller and powered subwoofers. Some AV controllers offer an LFE-only output in addition to the subwoofer output, and some subwoofers offer multiple line-level inputs. Controllers with both LFE-only outputs and subwoofer outputs may tempt us to connect a separate subwoofer to each output and run one subwoofer for the LFE channel and another one for summed main-channel bass. This is an exceptionally bad idea in most cases, because we need both subwoofers playing the same thing, working together to cancel bass resonances. The most effective use of two subwoofers is to have them play the sum of the bass from the main channels and the occasional LFE hit. Bass character stays consistent throughout the movie, and the subwoofers are used to their full potential.

At least it makes me feel a little better about the SC-77 not having independently MCACC calibrated subwoofer outputs, although I know that is not specifically what it is addressing.

While you would EQ multiple subs together it would be nice to independently set distance and level between each subwoofer. That's what's nice about the receivers with Audyssey XT32 & SubEQ. However, you actually have to like those receivers and what Audyssey does in your room. I had many of them and now I'm enjoying my SC-75. I use REW & a Minidsp to set level, distance, and EQ my two subs.

If your subs are roughly equal distance to your listening position then a configurable distance setting is not important. And you can level set via gain control on many subs with an SPL meter so that may not matter either. But I highly recommend something to EQ your subwoofers.
post #308 of 691
I strongly recommend sub EQ. I personally love my DsPeaker Antimode 8033s http://davidsusilouncensored.wordpress.com/2013/05/25/dspeaker-anti-mode-8033s/
post #309 of 691
Quote:
Originally Posted by dwaleke View Post

While you would EQ multiple subs together it would be nice to independently set distance and level between each subwoofer. That's what's nice about the receivers with Audyssey XT32 & SubEQ. However, you actually have to like those receivers and what Audyssey does in your room. I had many of them and now I'm enjoying my SC-75. I use REW & a Minidsp to set level, distance, and EQ my two subs.

If your subs are roughly equal distance to your listening position then a configurable distance setting is not important. And you can level set via gain control on many subs with an SPL meter so that may not matter either. But I highly recommend something to EQ your subwoofers.

The subs should be calibrated as one unit. Even some of the Audyssey expert have found better results calibrating the subs as one unit. Setting the distance is not as important with MCACC since the subs are combined. MCACC is measuring acoustical time and not actual feet. So, the sub distance can be off from the actual measure distance and be correct. MCACC goes down to 63 Hz. I have PEQ and find at most one or two peak may need a slight cut. If more is needed the subs need to be moved. For passive sealed sub a slight bass boost may be needed. Any more EQ in the under 63 Hz area will in general do more harm than good IMO. The bass boost is already built in to subs with plate amplifiers. Also PEQ should be done after MCACC if one is using it. It will cause the least changes in the phase integrity of the overall system. MCACC does an incredible job in getting good bass. The standing wave correction is as important as EQ IMHO. This is especially true using 3 position calibration. MCACC and Audyssey are doing hundreds or thousands of calculation which can't be done with just EQ. I had two Denon avr's with Audyssey and prefer MCACC over Audyssey
Edited by derrickdj1 - 1/12/14 at 9:30pm
post #310 of 691
Just to confirm. Are you saying to EQ the subwoofers after MCACC has been run? This is the opposite of what I have seen everyone else recommend.

EDIT: Also are you saying the Pioneer Elite SC-75/77/79 EQ the subwoofer down to 63hz? It was my understanding that the Pioneer does not EQ the subwoofer channel at all.
post #311 of 691
Run the bass EQ first then run the MCACC. This is confirmed by DSPeaker, Pioneer and several instructors of Home Acoustics Alliance.
post #312 of 691
Audyseey is a different beast than MCACC. Some people run Audyseey pre or post autocalibration with not much difference between the results. I have use PEQ extensively over the past year calibrating different subs in my system and found the best results are to do the PEQ after MCACC. The band under 63 Hz is very small compared to the entire band of 20 Hz to 20 kHz. It is only a couple of octaves which is why I found cutting one or two peaks to be sufficient under 63 Hz. Above 63 Hz is being address by the standing wave correction. A bass boost of no more than 6 db at the lowest end of the subwoofer can be done without throwing the system way out of balance and not eating up subwoofer headroom.

The old rule for using PEQ is narrow cuts and wide boost. The Q adjustment make it possible not to get crazy with the filters. A boost of 3 db under 30 Hz requires 50% more power and can put the sub amp under stress. Most plate amp subs have limiters to protect the driver but, they are not perfect.

As far as PEQ, the Pioneer standing wave correction will target 3 frequencies, provide a Q or bandwidth adjustment, and allow attenuation or increase gain. This is exactly what regular PEQ does. The difference is the number of frequencies that can be targeted. By definition PEQ does not adjust things in the time domain unless combined with DSP. Pioneer can not properly say MCACC does sub EQ since it does not go to 20 Hz in the standing wave MCACC correction. People can do what they want but, these are my personal observation where I have measure amp headroom, dynamic peak performance at reference level. I personally think MCACC is an excellent calibration system. Sub EQ is easier to understand than standing wave correction. Many Audyssey user use REW and PEQ to help get the bass right in their systems due to standing wave issues. PEQ cannot correct standing wave problems in the small HT due to the length of the LF soundwaves. The better the subwoofer setup, the less tweaking post setup.
Edited by derrickdj1 - 1/13/14 at 7:50pm
post #313 of 691

I recently picked up a SC-1528-k, and was wondering about using wifi with it. It's location doesnt really allow me to get an ethernet cable to it (not without a bit of trouble and drilling holes). Pioneer sells their usb wifi adapter for >$100, but I can get a computer usb wifi adaptor for <$10... Can any usb wifi adapter be used with this unit, or does it require Pioneer's own?

post #314 of 691
^ I don't think you can use a USB Wi-Fi adapter with it at all. You will need one that connects to the ethernet port. I found a Wi-Fi adapter for sale that uses the ethernet port for internet, and USB for power (making it the same as far as how it connects as the Pioneer AS-WL300), but its power specs were beyond the 5V 0.6A maximum specified for the USB port on the SC-77 that I have. I ended up using an Apple Airport Express on my setup (with an ethernet cord connected to the SC-77).
Edited by KC-Technerd - 1/15/14 at 9:59am
post #315 of 691

^

This thing: http://www.pioneerelectronics.ca/POCEN/Home/AV-Receivers/Accessories/AS-WL300

 

I guess that's what you were talking about... Looked it up in the manual, and yea, it plugs into the ethernet port and usb port, then picks up the wifi signal. Guess I'll have to figure something out with running an ethernet cable.

post #316 of 691
Quote:
Originally Posted by scrottle View Post

I recently picked up a SC-1528-k, and was wondering about using wifi with it. It's location doesnt really allow me to get an ethernet cable to it (not without a bit of trouble and drilling holes). Pioneer sells their usb wifi adapter for >$100, but I can get a computer usb wifi adaptor for <$10... Can any usb wifi adapter be used with this unit, or does it require Pioneer's own?
Any decent wireless bridge will do, although there will be a power adapter involved.

Try looking at these:
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_sc_0_13?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=wireless+bridge&sprefix=wireless+brig%2Caps%2C159

Some things to consider:
1) What type of wireless do you have in your house? (802.11b? a? c? g? n?)
- You need a bridge that supports that type of connection
2) What frequencies does you wireless network use? (2.4GHz?, 5GHz?, both?)
- You need a bridge that runs on that frequency
3) Do you anticipate using other network-connected devices in your AV cabinet.
- You might want to consider a multi-port bridge that supports multiple devices to allow for expansion later. Or not ;-)
post #317 of 691

^

Thanks!

 

A friend has an adapter that he had for his xbox 360, apparently does exactly what I'm looking for (pick up the wifi signal and let me plug an ethernet cable into it). Im going to try that. Also, another thought was that I could bridge the connection from a laptop to the receiver (I used to do that with my xbox 360).

post #318 of 691
SC-75 with 5.1 speaker setup.

I recently changed positioning of my surrounds, then re-ran MCACC. First in full-auto mode, then changed front speakers to small with 80 Hz crossover and ran auto mode with keep speaker setting.

After calibration I have a subtle "hissing" type noise from the front and center speakers, all output formats including direct and pure-direct, and all MCACC memory locations. Not a 60 Hz hum, much higher in frequency. This is occurring with all input sources: Dish Hopper, Blu-Rays, CD's, DVD's, Pandora, Roku, FM tuner (for Hopper and Blu-Ray I also tried an optical cable). I do not believe this is an issue with the input, rahter something is amiss in the AVR. It is most prevalent on vocals in music and dialogue in videos but messing up my music too. It is not present when I turn up the volume on unused inputs, nor is it present if I pause an input source and turn up the volume.

I have re-ran MCACC several times and the hiss is still present. I have also unplugged the AVR for several minutes to no effect. I am baffled as to the cause and appreciate any suggestions that will help me troubleshoot this.

Also, I seem to recall a post from ss9001 about resetting the amp module. This was from a service manual for a SC-6x or SC-5x AVR, although he believed it should work on SC-7x models. I can't find that post to save my life. It that could be re-posted I'd like to try it. I realize the procedure was for resetting an overloaded amp but I'd like to try it. Is there also a procedure for resetting the processor in the AVR, or do I resort to factory defaults to accomplish that?

I am guessing something has gone awry in the digital domain of my AVR and needs reset. Hoping it is that simple. Thanks for any suggestions.
post #319 of 691
Don't get the Pioneer bridge. It's overpriced and only work via wps button to sync.
post #320 of 691
Quote:
Originally Posted by KC-Technerd View Post

I accidentally ran across this article while looking for information on Dolby Bass Management: Bass Management and the LFE Channel

As a owner of an SC-77 running dual subwoofers, I found this paragraph to be of considerable interest (bold emphasis mine):
At least it makes me feel a little better about the SC-77 not having independently MCACC calibrated subwoofer outputs, although I know that is not specifically what it is addressing.

Can you tell me the proper way to connect a sub to the SC-77? I have my sub hooked up but I don't hear any sound coming out of it. I have the RCA cable going from Subwoofer 1 out to LFE in on the subwoofer. The sub also has a connector called normal but it's a DIN connector. The crossover on the receiver is set to 80hz per the suggestion when setting up the microphone for EQ setup.
post #321 of 691
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

Run the bass EQ first then run the MCACC. This is confirmed by DSPeaker, Pioneer and several instructors of Home Acoustics Alliance.

Where is Bass EQ run from? I haven't seen that on a Pioneer menu.
post #322 of 691
Quote:
Originally Posted by aharding View Post

Where is Bass EQ run from? I haven't seen that on a Pioneer menu.

I believe that statement was in reference to using an external subwoofer equalizer, not anything within the SC-77 itself.
post #323 of 691
Quote:
Originally Posted by aharding View Post

Can you tell me the proper way to connect a sub to the SC-77? I have my sub hooked up but I don't hear any sound coming out of it. I have the RCA cable going from Subwoofer 1 out to LFE in on the subwoofer. The sub also has a connector called normal but it's a DIN connector. The crossover on the receiver is set to 80hz per the suggestion when setting up the microphone for EQ setup.

See my post in response to your question here in the Anticipation Thread.
post #324 of 691
I am not sure if I have missed a setting or not but , when I and using my 1528 (sc75) and I am watching a movie or any sound input , and I have the sound setting to optimum and then I switch to one of the THX modes like pro logicIIz + THX cinema there is about a 5 db drop in sound output in the THX modes than the optimum mode for the same volume setting on the receiver?
post #325 of 691
Quote:
Originally Posted by GPC1 View Post

I am not sure if I have missed a setting or not but , when I and using my 1528 (sc75) and I am watching a movie or any sound input , and I have the sound setting to optimum and then I switch to one of the THX modes like pro logicIIz + THX cinema there is about a 5 db drop in sound output in the THX modes than the optimum mode for the same volume setting on the receiver?

I haven't experimented much with the optimum surround listening mode, but my understanding (and recollection) is that it does some adjustments to the individual channel levels anytime the volume is set at less than reference level. I would expect the possibility that this mode would produce a different overall volume level than the THX modes. THX Loudness Plus works in a somewhat similar manner to the Optimum Surround Listening Mode, so if THX Loudness Plus is turned off I might expect that to be more likely to produce a noticeably different overall volume level than if if THX Loudness Plus is turned on. I almost exclusively use the THX movie modes when watching movies or any other Blu-ray, DVD or TV content, and I do have THX Loudness Plus turned on. I don't think you're missing anything, but maybe someone else here who has used the Optimum mode more might have a better idea.
post #326 of 691
thanks for the reply KC-technerd, I do have the loudness turned on for the THX mode , but i believe that is to still give you good separation at lower volumes than reference level. Yes I am still switching back and forth trying to decide what i like the best THX sound or the pioneer optimum modes right now i think I am leaning towards the optimum modes.

as I am pushing close to 0db on the volume control to get reference level sound (85db level on the spl meter) when i am in THX mode,

I am not sure why it takes plus -40db on the volume control to even start getting sound from the speakers. Its like giving up 40% volume output.
post #327 of 691
Quote:
Originally Posted by GPC1 View Post

I do have the loudness turned on for the THX mode , but i believe that is to still give you good separation at lower volumes than reference level.
Quote:
THX Loudness Plus
A mode creating a rich, subtle surround sound field through optimal calibration of the volume and frequency response of the individual channels according to the volume level.

A consequence of turning the volume below Reference Level is that certain sound elements can be lost or perceived differently by the listener. THX Loudness Plus compensates for the tonal and spatial shifts that occur when the volume is reduced by intelligently adjusting ambient surround channel levels and frequency response.
Quote:
OPTIMUM SURR – In the Optimum Surround mode, this receiver automatically optimizes sound balance in each scene based on actually set volume. The sound balancer controls three major theater sound elements dialogue, bass and surround with original algorithm.

To me these both sound like they're trying to achieve the same results, but perhaps with different methods. Note that the THX Loudness Plus is only applied when using a THX listening mode.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GPC1 View Post

I am pushing close to 0db on the volume control to get reference level sound (85db level on the spl meter) when i am in THX mode,

I am not sure why it takes plus -40db on the volume control to even start getting sound from the speakers. Its like giving up 40% volume output.

After MCACC calibration 0db on the volume control is supposed to be reference sound level (possibly with the MCACC calibration being more accurate than the spl meter). Most likely why it takes -40dB to start hearing sound is ambient noise. A typical living room has 40dB. A forced hot air heating system produces 42 to 52dB. If you were in a soundproof chamber, you'd probably hear sound from the speakers at a volume setting well below that.
post #328 of 691
OPTIMUM is the same as THX LOUDNESS minus the THX reEQ, and THX adaptive decorrelation.
post #329 of 691
Thanks of the answers on my questions , I have been doing more listening and adjusting , such as fine speaker distance and fine speaker sound level, plus putting the Sw setting to "plus"

I would say now that the sound difference between THX and Optimum is very little if any.

I think now I under stand why the volume setting is at -40db before sound As was mention the ambient room noise is about 45db on my spl meter with the projector running and the furnace running

One other adjustment I came across was that you could set the input level for each device you are using to the receiver . So I increase the level on the input so now I was getting more sound out put with a lower volume setting , is this good or bad and reality do you get more volume for the same setting or with the higher setting on input trim then limit the full volume control by the amount you set up the input level?


I am using a 9.1 speaker system with the extra channels being front high, if I go to all the trouble of hook up front wide speakers as well will I get 11.1 or will I have to choose between front high or front wide? As I read that these 2 channels cannot get signal ( amplification )at the same time. Or will the receiver keep switching back an forth between the front highs and the front wides depending on the signal the receiver is putting out. So then it would be a 11.1 Chanel system
Sent from my iPad
post #330 of 691
I have to select THX Cinema manually every time I turn on the receiver (press THX on the remote)
How do I set THX Cinema as the default for movies?
I had an older Pioneer that remembered THX as the default
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