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Krell Foundation Owners Thread - Page 11

post #301 of 1292
Thanks Mark. I see you've already changed the name!
post #302 of 1292
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmcomp124 View Post

....I have a bunch of things I want to post after talking to Bill from Krell this morning....

I look forward to reading what you have to share.
post #303 of 1292
Yes I look forward to it also. I won't be able to sleep tonight unless I know now. Lol
post #304 of 1292
I am still checking in.
post #305 of 1292
thebland I just reread your post with a different frame of mind. I do see what you are saying. I had my defend my product frame of mind.

I checked out that Theta. I have known about them but never really paid much attention. See this is so far out of my price range I never took it seriously. Never even knew Krell made an Evolution 707.I payed attention to products in my price range. Because of what happens. I end up reading about it. Then I want it and nothing else will do. And now thanks to you guys I want to listen to the Casablanca 4. Doesn't mean I will buy it. Way out of my price range. But I would like to hear what 30000.00 buys you. I want to hear it with extreme dacs. This is a very impressive on paper processor.

Really I would never think the Foundation would be in this league. Or Meridian. But for the money there isnt anything I have heard even remotely close.
post #306 of 1292
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhale64L7 View Post

Yes I look forward to it also. I won't be able to sleep tonight unless I know now. Lol
I too are waiting anxiously but Ron can tell us a lot about setting up our Foundations also! Together we can help each other getting the most out of our toys!
post #307 of 1292
Guys I can tell you how I got the most out of the Foundation. But most of you won't like it. It means resetting everything too factory settings. Make sure everything hooked to the Foundation is off. Then you go into source setup before anything else. Then save a memory for movies. This is say blueray. I saved this to memory 1. Then i went in and renamed one two channel music. I saved this to memory 2. Then you could do another for multichannel music and save that to memory 3. Then go do your ares speaker setup. Then edit your settings because your crossovers will probably be wrong. Everything else was real close. It will ask you what memory you want to edit. Edit memory 1. Then run ares room eq. Save it to memory 1. Do this also for say memory 3. Or whatever memory you saved multichannel music in. Only if you want a little different settings for multichannel music as I did. Leave the one you saved for two channeL at the beginning alone. Go back out of the menu by using the left arrow until it doesn't go any further. Hit the menu button. Then turn on your source components and select what source you want and listen When I set up the Foundation in the order in the manual my two channel music never sounded right. It was always a tad bit lean sounding. But when I learned this little trick it always sounded right.
Edited by rhale64L7 - 12/18/13 at 8:11pm
post #308 of 1292
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhale64L7 View Post

Guys I can tell you how I got the most out of the Foundation. But most of you won't like it. It means resetting everything too factory settings. Then you go into source setup before anything else. When I set up the Foundation in the order
I for one would like to know how you did it. Mine is brand new so no resetting necessary. I just want to get the most out of my Foundation when I finally get to listen to it!
post #309 of 1292
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhale64L7 View Post

Yes I look forward to it also. I won't be able to sleep tonight unless I know now. Lol
Wow. Pressure is on! I want to recalibrate expectations as I had some very basic questions that I think all of us may have run into, so here it is. As I get more time, I will post more.

First, let me say, I was pleasantly surprised to get Bill McKiegan directly and he was very respectful and receptive to all my feedback. He answered all of my questions, some were technically deeper than what a casual user would ask. I don't want to get into all the details of the technicalities for now but let me address some basic answers I was looking for that were not apparent to me in the manual. Please note that I am paraphrasing Bill's answers, so pardon any inaccuracy. I assure you I will try my best to convey the answer.

1. Manual says "STEREO
Select Stereo mode for conventional digital stereo signals. Use this mode to listen to conventional stereo digital
signals through the left and right speakers. The Foundation will perform digital to analog conversion and send signals
to the analog stereo outputs."

What I want is a mode that allows me to set a Xover frequency (Say 40Hz) and redirected bass to go to the subwoofers. Which mode is that? Full range plus sub is not it.
Answer: Stereo is the mode. If you set the Xover to full range it is like direct mode. If you engage the Xovers, redirected bass goes to the sub.
Outcome: I tried it just this evening and it is just as Bill described. I told him I was not pleased with the Full range plus sub as it sounded veiled. He was not a fan of that mode either, but lots of people want it and it is there.

2. Is there a Low-Pass filter for the subwoofer for 2 channel sources? I don't want frequencies above 100Hz for example going to my subwoofer as I know how bad this can sound.
Apparently there are some restrictions here and I am not sure I fully understood the answer the license issues and dolby restrictions etc.


3. I want test tones. I want to be able to put measure SPL for each channel without having to put in a test CD?
Very much a wanted feature. They will do it in a future firmware udpate

4. Regarding reported Trim levels by foundation, ARES and reference volume. I do not believe the trim levels I see. Subwoofer trim level did not change with huge delta in my subwoofer amplifier gain. Why so? Moving baseline in internal reference levels? Is it parameteric EQ? How many bands? My concerns with distortion on bass heavy scenes like War of the worlds and the strong corrleation to trim levels as observed by my Rane?

Answers: I would like to defer this as I am very tired after a very very long work week and day. May I address this during my vacation? I will try to post this with pictures and measurements if I get the time. This is too detailed and many of you won't even care. Really? biggrin.gif. If so, why did you buy a Krell?

5. Why no OSD? We are all so used to it?
Answer: Simple. Keep distortion low.
I think I bought into it.


In summary, I think we are in very good hands. I got the impression that they take feedback seriously. Please do not expect everyone who calls to get a response from someone like Bill. Let's be fair. I just got lucky. It happened to be right time.


BTW, I just listened to one of my favorite tracks "Tears in Heaven" at close to reference (don't ask me what that is yet), and it sounded simply incredible. Beautiful sounding unit. I am keeping it wink.gif. The response I got from Krell today makes me want to stick to this brand. I have had similar experience with Rogue. Rogue Audio is an amazing company and Marc O'Brien's response was very similar to Bill. I did not buy their flagship product (it was the Rogue Audio Athena) but still received red-carpet treatment. Same with Bill, foundation is their lower end and he still took the time to talk to me. We are fortunate to have leaders like them.
Enjoy the hobby.


Regards,
-Jai
post #310 of 1292
Sorry for the bad typing and all. I am tired and trying to hurry up.
post #311 of 1292
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmcomp124 View Post

Wow. Pressure is on! I want to recalibrate expectations as I had some very basic questions that I think all of us may have run into, so here it is. As I get more time, I will post more.

First, let me say, I was pleasantly surprised to get Bill McKiegan directly and he was very respectful and receptive to all my feedback. He answered all of my questions, some were technically deeper than what a casual user would ask. I don't want to get into all the details of the technicalities for now but let me address some basic answers I was looking for that were not apparent to me in the manual. Please note that I am paraphrasing Bill's answers, so pardon any inaccuracy. I assure you I will try my best to convey the answer.

1. Manual says "STEREO
Select Stereo mode for conventional digital stereo signals. Use this mode to listen to conventional stereo digital
signals through the left and right speakers. The Foundation will perform digital to analog conversion and send signals
to the analog stereo outputs."

What I want is a mode that allows me to set a Xover frequency (Say 40Hz) and redirected bass to go to the subwoofers. Which mode is that? Full range plus sub is not it.
Answer: Stereo is the mode. If you set the Xover to full range it is like direct mode. If you engage the Xovers, redirected bass goes to the sub.
Outcome: I tried it just this evening and it is just as Bill described. I told him I was not pleased with the Full range plus sub as it sounded veiled. He was not a fan of that mode either, but lots of people want it and it is there.

2. Is there a Low-Pass filter for the subwoofer for 2 channel sources? I don't want frequencies above 100Hz for example going to my subwoofer as I know how bad this can sound.
Apparently there are some restrictions here and I am not sure I fully understood the answer the license issues and dolby restrictions etc.


3. I want test tones. I want to be able to put measure SPL for each channel without having to put in a test CD?
Very much a wanted feature. They will do it in a future firmware udpate

4. Regarding reported Trim levels by foundation, ARES and reference volume. I do not believe the trim levels I see. Subwoofer trim level did not change with huge delta in my subwoofer amplifier gain. Why so? Moving baseline in internal reference levels? Is it parameteric EQ? How many bands? My concerns with distortion on bass heavy scenes like War of the worlds and the strong corrleation to trim levels as observed by my Rane?

Answers: I would like to defer this as I am very tired after a very very long work week and day. May I address this during my vacation? I will try to post this with pictures and measurements if I get the time. This is too detailed and many of you won't even care. Really? biggrin.gif. If so, why did you buy a Krell?

5. Why no OSD? We are all so used to it?
Answer: Simple. Keep distortion low.
I think I bought into it.


In summary, I think we are in very good hands. I got the impression that they take feedback seriously. Please do not expect everyone who calls to get a response from someone like Bill. Let's be fair. I just got lucky. It happened to be right time.


BTW, I just listened to one of my favorite tracks "Tears in Heaven" at close to reference (don't ask me what that is yet), and it sounded simply incredible. Beautiful sounding unit. I am keeping it wink.gif. The response I got from Krell today makes me want to stick to this brand. I have had similar experience with Rogue. Rogue Audio is an amazing company and Marc O'Brien's response was very similar to Bill. I did not buy their flagship product (it was the Rogue Audio Athena) but still received red-carpet treatment. Same with Bill, foundation is their lower end and he still took the time to talk to me. We are fortunate to have leaders like them.
Enjoy the hobby.


Regards,
-Jai

Thanks and can't wait to hear the rest of what Bill said. He actually posted on avs about the Foundation a while back.
post #312 of 1292
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhale64L7 View Post

Thanks and can't wait to hear the rest of what Bill said. He actually posted on avs about the Foundation a while back.
I think I already captured his most important points. I don't think there is much more I can add. The rest would be my opinions which may not matter.
post #313 of 1292
I am ready for those pictures and drawings. Lol
post #314 of 1292
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhale64L7 View Post

I am ready for those pictures and drawings. Lol
LOL. Maybe a Christmas gift smile.gif
post #315 of 1292
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmcomp124 View Post

LOL. Maybe a Christmas gift smile.gif

Sounds good to me. Lol
post #316 of 1292
Folks go take a look at Krells Facebook page. Its funny there was people teasing Krell for there not so matching amp. Look at it it is awesome looking in my opinion. There is a picture of the Foundation with what looks like an amp under it. It has a captain of tease tomorrow.
post #317 of 1292
Looked again maybe not an amp. Don't know what it is. Matches the Foundation. Just way bigger.
post #318 of 1292
If the Foundation sounds better than Krells other two processors, they are in trouble. If the Foundation sounds the same or worst than their other two processors they are still in trouble. eek.gif
post #319 of 1292
Quote:
Originally Posted by gbaby View Post

If the Foundation sounds better than Krells other two processors, they are in trouble. If the Foundation sounds the same or worst than their other two processors they are still in trouble. eek.gif

Ok gbaby krell is in trouble no matter what. We will see how this all pans out. We will see if you are correct.
post #320 of 1292
Quote:
Originally Posted by gbaby View Post

If the Foundation sounds better than Krells other two processors, they are in trouble. If the Foundation sounds the same or worst than their other two processors they are still in trouble. eek.gif
It depends on volume too. While cannibalization is an issue. What would they choose? sell 100 Foundations or 10 of the next higher end or 1 of the top of the line. Which is going to bring more revenue. Having the right partners, the infra-structure to deliver volume and proliferation will be key. This is a good product and it has the DNA for success. Let's hope it happens.
post #321 of 1292
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmcomp124 View Post

It depends on volume too. While cannibalization is an issue. What would they choose? sell 100 Foundations or 10 of the next higher end or 1 of the top of the line. Which is going to bring more revenue. Having the right partners, the infra-structure to deliver volume and proliferation will be key. This is a good product and it has the DNA for success. Let's hope it happens.

This is true. The evolution may get a huge update also,who knows.
post #322 of 1292
Thread Starter 
And finally "he" gets a good marriage...so sexy... wink.gif

Just need to know the power output...*
post #323 of 1292
Thread Starter 
However it's a shame DSP modes on the Krell are so weak....
Other cheaper brands have lotos of modes, and concerning movies. Krell doesn't....
post #324 of 1292
Quote:
Originally Posted by MV_Cinema View Post

And finally "he" gets a good marriage...so sexy... wink.gif

Just need to know the power output...*

It does look good. But, there is an image in the middle that seems to mimic a penis an vigina. cool.gifeek.gifwink.gif
post #325 of 1292
Quote:
Originally Posted by MV_Cinema View Post

However it's a shame DSP modes on the Krell are so weak....
Other cheaper brands have lotos of modes, and concerning movies. Krell doesn't....

I think that most people considering a processor in this price range (and above) will be more interested in sound quality rather than DSP modes. Use of DSP usually means that you are hearing the core track and not the HD track, especially on cheaper brands. I'd prefer to hear the HD track in 5.1 or 7.1, rather than the core track matrixed to more speakers.
post #326 of 1292
Don't know for sure if it is an amp. Just because of the display. The name is fitting. It says Chorus 7200. I imagine that could be 7 × 200. But it looks like a firmware number. version 1.01. Don't know of any amp that has firmware. Whatever it is it is getting announced at ces.
post #327 of 1292
Thread Starter 
So Krell Foundation can be considered Reference Level in terms of processing?

I have good toughts about this processor however seeing things like ADA Rapture or Rapshody, makes me think if Krell can reach that level of performance.
Edited by MV_Cinema - 12/20/13 at 11:16am
post #328 of 1292
Quote:
Originally Posted by MV_Cinema View Post

However it's a shame DSP modes on the Krell are so weak....
Other cheaper brands have lotos of modes, and concerning movies. Krell doesn't....

DSP modes are designed to make an inferior designed processor sound good. They work only for folks who fundamentally don't have an ear. They are basically gimmicks.
post #329 of 1292
Quote:
Originally Posted by MV_Cinema View Post

So Krell Foundation can be considered Reference Level in terms of processing?

It could be reference for a Krell, but I'm almost certain it does not represent the "State of the Art." By way of example, it would not rank with the likes of a Bryston SP3, the Classe 800 or the McIntosh MX151 as well as an ADA, DataStat, etc. Note, I may be mis labeling some of the later brands I've quoted herein.
post #330 of 1292
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gbaby View Post

It could be reference for a Krell, but I'm almost certain it does not represent the "State of the Art." By way of example, it would not rank with the likes of a Bryston SP3, the Classe 800 or the McIntosh MX151 as well as an ADA, DataStat, etc. Note, I may be mis labeling some of the later brands I've quoted herein.


I agree, but in my opinion leave the MX-151 on a league below, no ofense.
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