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Krell Foundation Owners Thread - Page 28

post #811 of 1274
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhale64L7 View Post

This is something I have been noticing about Krell. Krell is more coveted in countries outside of the usa. This just baffles me.
I'm in Canada and we LOVE Krell. I've owned Krell for 15 years and presently owns an Evolution 202 pre-amp for stereo, EV600 monos for my fronts, EV3250 for centre and sides and of course the Foundation for multichannel. I've always had good service from Krell and love the sound from their power amps. Then came along the Foundation and it didn't disappiont!
post #812 of 1274
Just noticed something about the mic that comes with the Foundation. My replacement came in original packaging. On it it says frequency response is down to 50hz. Just wondering if that is why it doesn't pick up the sub on ARES if the crossover is set to below 50hz? My sub was picked up before but then I set up the sub to go with my B&W 802's. My sub is B&W DB1 which if set up with the 802's set the crossover at 40hz. After that it wouldn't pick it up. Will try the new mic later this week and see if it works.
post #813 of 1274
Wow a mic that doesn't work below 50hz. That could definitely be the problem then. I always set my crossover at 80hz for ares. And never had a problem.
Edited by rhale64L7 - 1/28/14 at 4:25am
post #814 of 1274
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhale64L7 View Post

Wow a mic that doesn't work below 50hz. That could definitely be the problem then. I always set my crossover at 80hz for ares. And never had a problem.
I'll try it both ways with the new mic.
post #815 of 1274
Quote:
Originally Posted by vvuuren View Post

Just noticed something about the mic that comes with the Foundation. My replacement came in original packaging. On it it says frequency response is down to 50hz. Just wondering if that is why it doesn't pick up the sub on ARES if the crossover is set to below 50hz? My sub was picked up before but then I set up the sub to go with my B&W 802's. My sub is B&W DB1 which if set up with the 802's set the crossover at 40hz. After that it wouldn't pick it up. Will try the new mic later this week and see if it works.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhale64L7 View Post

Wow a mic that doesn't work below 50hz. That could definitely be the problem then. I always set my crossover at 80hz for ares. And never had a problem.

Wait a minute!  Doesn't ARES set the crossover after it detects and measures the speakers?  Also, despite the mushy spec for the mic, it probably doesn't cut off at 50Hz but is slowly rolling off all the way.  

 

My subs are both set to bypass their crossovers and neither of the mics Krell sent would hear them unless I turned up their levels substantially.  Let us know what you find. 

post #816 of 1274
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

Wait a minute!  Doesn't ARES set the crossover after it detects and measures the speakers?  Also, despite the mushy spec for the mic, it probably doesn't cut off at 50Hz but is slowly rolling off all the way.  

My subs are both set to bypass their crossovers and neither of the mics Krell sent would hear them unless I turned up their levels substantially.  Let us know what you find. 
Will do.
post #817 of 1274
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

Wait a minute!  Doesn't ARES set the crossover after it detects and measures the speakers?  Also, despite the mushy spec for the mic, it probably doesn't cut off at 50Hz but is slowly rolling off all the way.  

My subs are both set to bypass their crossovers and neither of the mics Krell sent would hear them unless I turned up their levels substantially.  Let us know what you find. 

Yes I believe it does Kal. But it also sets your crossovers way higher than most. I did rew after I noticed this. And low and behold where me spkrs were placed there was a huge dip. Ares might have been trying to correct this
post #818 of 1274
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

Wait a minute!  Doesn't ARES set the crossover after it detects and measures the speakers?  Also, despite the mushy spec for the mic, it probably doesn't cut off at 50Hz but is slowly rolling off all the way.  

My subs are both set to bypass their crossovers and neither of the mics Krell sent would hear them unless I turned up their levels substantially.  Let us know what you find. 
Yes but I set my sub up first and did the setting to fit in with my 802's which the DB1 set at 40hz. Maybe I should not have run eq on the DB1 first and just used the ARES setting?
post #819 of 1274
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhale64L7 View Post


Yes I believe it does Kal. But it also sets your crossovers way higher than most. I did rew after I noticed this. And low and behold where me spkrs were placed there was a huge dip. Ares might have been trying to correct this

My last pass with ARES resulted in my L/R speakers being set full range and my surrounds were set to 40Hz, both lower than what I consider reasonable.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by vvuuren View Post


Yes but I set my sub up first and did the setting to fit in with my 802's which the DB1 set at 40hz. Maybe I should not have run eq on the DB1 first and just used the ARES setting?

Can't you do the EQ on the DB1 without setting a LP filter on it?  I always bypass the LP filter on my subs, even the E-ed one, and let the processor handle it.

post #820 of 1274
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

My last pass with ARES resulted in my L/R speakers being set full range and my surrounds were set to 40Hz, both lower than what I consider reasonable.

Can't you do the EQ on the DB1 without setting a LP filter on it?  I always bypass the LP filter on my subs, even the E-ed one, and let the processor handle it.
Yes, I can and will probably tomorrow if time permits.
post #821 of 1274
Yeah try setting the crossover on the sub at its highest setting. And leave the phase at its 0 or regular position. Then try running ares.
post #822 of 1274
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhale64L7 View Post

Yeah try setting the crossover on the sub at its highest setting. And leave the phase at its 0 or regular position. Then try running ares.
Will do and let you know.
post #823 of 1274
Just tried the new mic. Ran ARES first without changing anything on sub. Didn't pick up sub. Changed LFE to 120hz. Still didn't pick up. Turned up volume on sub to 6db. Picked up sub and ran fine after. Setings exactly same as with previous mic. So likely not the mic. Test signal from Foundation to sub just too soft for mic to pick up. Kal, will do some listening with LFE at 120 (I was mistaken. The setting on DB1 for 802's are LFE set at 80hz)
Edited by vvuuren - 1/29/14 at 11:17am
post #824 of 1274
OK I got my replacement Krell this afternoon and just finished installing it. I just ran ARES and had issues with the sub again, and did the same as you did Vvuuren. I have an SVS 12 in ported sub and with it set for the room at -7, the Mic would not pick it up, I tried, each +1 until I got to flat 0. The mic picked that up and added 2 db to it on the processor. I went ahead and ran the EQ, as well,. Once it all came back up it was overbassed, if thats a word! I trimmed the base back to -7 on my svs and backed out the 2 db and it sounds ok now.

What I am wondering now is if I ran the EQ with the bass up as far as it was, would it hose up the settings? I am thinking yes, but not sure I can edit those so I may rerun it later tonight now with the bass set lower. Also I will prob run some test tones and see how balanced it all is. More to come.

But I do have 2 here now!! love them both and will send the old one back to them once I know I am all good with this one. THis thing just sounded great out of the box. I may in the end just reset it and balance it and leave it we will see.
post #825 of 1274
Quote:
Originally Posted by scpanel View Post

OK I got my replacement Krell this afternoon and just finished installing it. I just ran ARES and had issues with the sub again, and did the same as you did Vvuuren. I have an SVS 12 in ported sub and with it set for the room at -7, the Mic would not pick it up, I tried, each +1 until I got to flat 0. The mic picked that up and added 2 db to it on the processor. I went ahead and ran the EQ, as well,. Once it all came back up it was overbassed, if thats a word! I trimmed the base back to -7 on my svs and backed out the 2 db and it sounds ok now.

What I am wondering now is if I ran the EQ with the bass up as far as it was, would it hose up the settings? I am thinking yes, but not sure I can edit those so I may rerun it later tonight now with the bass set lower. Also I will prob run some test tones and see how balanced it all is. More to come.

But I do have 2 here now!! love them both and will send the old one back to them once I know I am all good with this one. THis thing just sounded great out of the box. I may in the end just reset it and balance it and leave it we will see.
I did just try with and without ARES and in my system it does sound noticeably better after ARES with multichannel. The whole sound is just so much more balanced. The speakers just disappears and the music just flows. Did you try updating yet with the new unit as some people (not me) have had problems with this?
post #826 of 1274
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

My last pass with ARES resulted in my L/R speakers being set full range and my surrounds were set to 40Hz, both lower than what I consider reasonable.

Can't you do the EQ on the DB1 without setting a LP filter on it?  I always bypass the LP filter on my subs, even the E-ed one, and let the processor handle it.
hi Kal, just finished running ARES again. First set the LFE on sub at 120 as you suggested and then ran ARES and low and behold it sounds amazing. I do think it sounds better this way (when ARES does all the crossover etc). Do you run your fronts full range with sub for stereo?
post #827 of 1274
^ I agree with all of you. With multichannel ares is awesome. You are in a beautiful bubble of sound.

With two channel music even through the hdmi input I much prefer ares eq off. The soundstage is so much deeper. At least for me it was.

I still can't believe all the problems picking up the subs though. I wonder why I never had that problem in the approximately 7 times I ran it. I did one time have one of the channels for my left surround not on yet. That was Scary. When ares got to that speaker and couldn't hear it the volume kept raising I had to shut it down.
Edited by rhale64L7 - 1/29/14 at 3:35pm
post #828 of 1274
When I retry it again I think I will put the mic more in the middle of the room to see if it picks up the sub any differently
post #829 of 1274
Where are you putting the mic now? I put it at main listening position. I also never used that crappie little plastic stand thay came with it. I always used a mic boom stand. I wrapped a lot of black tape around the mic towards the element. I then slid that into the mic clip just like a real mic. I angled the mic like it would be if it were in its stand. The mic element was at ear height.
post #830 of 1274
Quote:
Originally Posted by vvuuren View Post


hi Kal, just finished running ARES again. First set the LFE on sub at 120 as you suggested and then ran ARES and low and behold it sounds amazing. I do think it sounds better this way (when ARES does all the crossover etc). Do you run your fronts full range with sub for stereo?

No, I use the same configuration for all formats on that system.

post #831 of 1274
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhale64L7 View Post

Where are you putting the mic now? I put it at main listening position. I also never used that crappie little plastic stand thay came with it. I always used a mic boom stand. I wrapped a lot of black tape around the mic towards the element. I then slid that into the mic clip just like a real mic. I angled the mic like it would be if it were in its stand. The mic element was at ear height.
I do use the crappy stand but at main listening position at ear height exactly vertical. My sub is to the side because of how my room is set up (and I have to keep the boss happy). I know that's not the ideal placement for the sub but it sounds good like that and I'm still married.
post #832 of 1274
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhale64L7 View Post

Where are you putting the mic now? I put it at main listening position. I also never used that crappie little plastic stand thay came with it. I always used a mic boom stand. I wrapped a lot of black tape around the mic towards the element. I then slid that into the mic clip just like a real mic. I angled the mic like it would be if it were in its stand. The mic element was at ear height.

I put it at main listening location, but I want to try putting it closer to the middle just to see if it makes a difference. We will see.
post #833 of 1274
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

No, I use the same configuration for all formats on that system.
I have a different setup for my stereo. Before the Foundation I was listening almost exclusively to two channel. For two cannel I use dCS Puccini with U-clock and Krell Evolusion 202. So since I've got the Foundation I did try the two channel through the Foundation but still prefer the sound through my 202 but because the dCS is connected to my Foundation also I've experimented with playing the main fronts through the 202 and adding just the sub through the Foundation at same volume which sounds amazing and better than either by it self. The 202 doesn't have a sub output.
post #834 of 1274
Quote:
Originally Posted by vvuuren View Post


I have a different setup for my stereo. Before the Foundation I was listening almost exclusively to two channel. For two cannel I use dCS Puccini with U-clock and Krell Evolusion 202. So since I've got the Foundation I did try the two channel through the Foundation but still prefer the sound through my 202 but because the dCS is connected to my Foundation also I've experimented with playing the main fronts through the 202 and adding just the sub through the Foundation at same volume which sounds amazing and better than either by it self. The 202 doesn't have a sub output.

The Foundation is in my weekend system where all the real listening is multichannel and stereo is used only for background.  In my main system, I take advantage of more options.

post #835 of 1274
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

The Foundation is in my weekend system where all the real listening is multichannel and stereo is used only for background.  In my main system, I take advantage of more options.
Yes, as good as the Foundation is with movies and multichannel it won't replace my 202 for stereo,
post #836 of 1274
I too had to raise my subwoofers to get ARES to pick them up. I've also used a boom mic stand and had the mic at roughly a 70 degree angle, which seemed like a good idea at the time, not upright like I've done with everything else. I was going to ask if the mic should point straight up, like most of them should be.
post #837 of 1274
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProAudioSlave View Post

I too had to raise my subwoofers to get ARES to pick them up. I've also used a boom mic stand and had the mic at roughly a 70 degree angle, which seemed like a good idea at the time, not upright like I've done with everything else. I was going to ask if the mic should point straight up, like most of them should be.
Mine straight up but I don't know either.
post #838 of 1274
Ps. I did email Krell last night to let them know about the sub issue and already had email back that it was passed on to the engineers. Hopefully they'll find a way to resolve this issue soon.
post #839 of 1274
OK, so by moving the mic about 3 feet it did pick up the sub with my SVS sub set at -4 but added +5 gain, I am thinking since my sub is placed on the side of a couch, that that may be the issue given the listening location. So I went in and backed out the 5 DB and it sounds great. So my problem might just be placement.
post #840 of 1274
Quote:
Originally Posted by scpanel View Post

OK, so by moving the mic about 3 feet it did pick up the sub with my SVS sub set at -4 but added +5 gain, I am thinking since my sub is placed on the side of a couch, that that may be the issue given the listening location. So I went in and backed out the 5 DB and it sounds great. So my problem might just be placement.
Do you have an adjustable phase control on your subwoofer? Playing about with the phase can sometimes help with single point room EQ, providing it isn't just a positive and negative switch selection.
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