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Audiophile CD Player? Which One? - Page 11

post #301 of 467
^

esh516, I modified my post slightly so I now am quoting two of your short posts, complete and without change, in "block quotes". Those are not "scrambled", "inserted", or pulled out" in any way. Everything outside the first two block quotes is my discussion, merely using your statements as starting points. (I also made a few quotes from Wikipedia articles.)
Quote:
You just spent the better half of a holiday weekend Saturday to write allll that?

Different people have different hobbies (LOL) ... I sometimes create rather long posts on AVS, but my overall post count isn't all that ... I had unimportant personal reasons for distracting myself (from something else) by writing this particular post.
post #302 of 467
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoNic67 View Post

I will post as long as you call me out with comments based on your fake religion.
Happy now?
PS: The ratio of previous posts is 18:1 in favor of your religion, so I don't see why are you afraid.

So you're esh?

You might want to work on your reading comprehension before saying I'm afraid of anything. rolleyes.gif
post #303 of 467
Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

Well strictly speaking personal opinions aren't right or wrong, rather we agree with them or not.

Problem is that some people don't understand the difference between personal opinions and hard facts.

If I said that it was my opinion that New York city was the largest city New York state, that would be silly, because the identity of the largest city in New York State is a knowable hard fact.

If I said that it is a fact that the Democratic party was ill-advised in their political policies, that would be presumptuous, because political policies relate to the future, and nobody knows the future that accurately.

The problem on this forum is that some people have confused the realm of issues that aren't knowable and therefore people can only have opinions about, and issues that are knowable, and for which hard facts can be known.
...is that a fact?
J/k....yes yes I'm listening..
post #304 of 467
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

So, Esh, what did you make of that article on speaker wire?
I'm sorry kbarnes..I do want to read it..just been very busy with family & work..but I'm getting to it, and will get back soon.
post #305 of 467
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic icons View Post

^

esh516, I modified my post slightly so I now am quoting two of your short posts, complete and without change, in "block quotes". Those are not "scrambled", "inserted", or pulled out" in any way. Everything outside the first two block quotes is my discussion, merely using your statements as starting points. (I also made a few quotes from Wikipedia articles.)
Different people have different hobbies (LOL) ... I sometimes create rather long posts on AVS, but my overall post count isn't all that ... I had unimportant personal reasons for distracting myself (from something else) by writing this particular post.
I would like to re-read what you posted
Sorry I have been major multitasking the last few hours
post #306 of 467
Quote:
Originally Posted by esh516 View Post

Like I have not been personally insulted..please

Where? Because people disagree with your opinion? Is a disagreement on an opinion or viewpoint a personal insult? Has anyone insulted your ability to hear, like you have?

Quote:
I have contemplated the mere possibility and concluded my personal evaluations on subject.
What's wrong with having a personal opinion?

Oh please, your behavior from the get-go screams that you don't care about anything other than your subjective viewpoint.

If you even contemplated the idea, you would have engaged in a civilized discussion.
post #307 of 467
Quote:
Originally Posted by bo130 View Post

Where? Because people disagree with your opinion? Is a disagreement on an opinion or viewpoint a personal insult? Has anyone insulted your ability to hear, like you have?
Oh please, your behavior from the get-go screams that you don't care about anything other than your subjective viewpoint.

If you even contemplated the idea, you would have engaged in a civilized discussion.
Sorry bo bo.... I thought we were in a civilized discussion... And your post scream the same thing
Only reverse.. So what's the problem?
post #308 of 467
Quote:
Originally Posted by esh516 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

So, Esh, what did you make of that article on speaker wire?
I'm sorry kbarnes..I do want to read it..just been very busy with family & work..but I'm getting to it, and will get back soon.

 

I am genuinely interested in what you think after reading it. I'm not trying to wind you up - the article is straightforward and well written and almost entertaining in parts. Most importantly, it contains a lot of useful scientifically-backed info on speaker wires which you may find interesting.

post #309 of 467
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

I am genuinely interested in what you think after reading it. I'm not trying to wind you up - the article is straightforward and well written and almost entertaining in parts. Most importantly, it contains a lot of useful scientifically-backed info on speaker wires which you may find interesting.
Yes 701.. I did read everything.
I did find it well written and very entertaining
As you said..it was good reading...but there is also good reading on the other side of the coin.
Saturday listening sessions,I tryed to go in with a open mind and challenge my beliefs..but I just walked out and I am going to go see a psychologist
....because I am hearing things that are not suppose to be there..
post #310 of 467
^^^did you adhere to proper testing procedures or is this more subjective opinionated "testing"?

Also wires that are incompetently designed can alter the sound very significantly, though this usually creates undesirable effects.

If you really wish to learn what exactly you are hearing, you need to do measurements. Everything audible is measurable, not everrything measurable is audible. Measurements in the audible ranges will show where the cable in question is changing the sound. If your measurements don't show any deviation in the audible spectrum then you are fooling yourself if you think you are heating differences. This can be verified by testing using proper dbt procedures.

If all else fails, maybe you are nuts! smile.gif
post #311 of 467
Quote:
Originally Posted by esh516 View Post

.
Saturday listening sessions,I tryed to go in with a open mind and challenge my beliefs..but I just walked out and I am going to go see a psychologist
....because I am hearing things that are not suppose to be there..

You don't need a psychologist, you just need some good testing methodologies.

How many times do you need to be told that you are supposed to hear false differences in sighted evaluations before you get it right?
post #312 of 467
Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by esh516 View Post

.
Saturday listening sessions,I tryed to go in with a open mind and challenge my beliefs..but I just walked out and I am going to go see a psychologist
....because I am hearing things that are not suppose to be there..

You don't need a psychologist, you just need some good testing methodologies.

 

 

Let's not be too hasty, Arny.... :)

post #313 of 467
Quote:
Originally Posted by 67jason View Post

^^^did you adhere to proper testing procedures or is this more subjective opinionated "testing"?

Also wires that are incompetently designed can alter the sound very significantly, though this usually creates undesirable effects.

If you really wish to learn what exactly you are hearing, you need to do measurements. Everything audible is measurable, not everrything measurable is audible. Measurements in the audible ranges will show where the cable in question is changing the sound. If your measurements don't show any deviation in the audible spectrum then you are fooling yourself if you think you are heating differences. This can be verified by testing using proper dbt procedures.

If all else fails, maybe you are nuts! smile.gif

 

It's not too difficult to conduct a test such as you describe.  Esh - you could do this and prove it to yourself once and for all. All you need is a laptop and an HDMI cable,  both of which I bet you have. Then download REW from HTS (it is free). The latest version of REW allows you to hook up with just one HDMI cable to your AVR and laptop. Select any spare input in the AVR - the one on the front if you have one is the easiest to use. Then you will need a mic - but it doesn’t have to be a fancy calibrated mic for this test because you are not interested in absolute accuracy of frequency response - just a comparison between two things. You could use the setup mic that came with your AVR. Plug it into your laptop. Go into your AVR menus and turn off any processing you are using - eg Audyssey, Dynamic EQ etc.

 

Now run REW and make a full range sweep. You will get a FR graph in your laptop screen. Now, without moving the mic or changing anything in REW etc, swap the speaker cables you just used for another set. Then run the REW sweep again. Now compare the graphs. If the cables are audibly affecting the sound, the two graphs will be different. If they are the same, then the cables are not affecting the sound. 

 

If you can't bothered to do this test (which I understand) then will you at least concede that those who have done the test have found no difference between using 14AWG wire and more expensive 'exotic' wires?

post #314 of 467
Oooook guys.
I'm not going to get into our test we did on Saturday,we did do correct testing protocol... Some wires...no difference..the more expensive ones yes..different
Oh dam..I said I wasn't getting into it..lol
Anyway..OK. After reading a lot about this( thanks Kbarnes).. I'm starting to sway away from what I DO hear..lol and I have always believed in your theory's
I just trusted my own ears!... Its like unsolved mystery's..
My straight wire crescendos do sound a lot..I do mean a lot different from the radio shack cheap stuff..again I can not explain that.
But OK...thank you..I will do more reading and try to better understand this whole process.
By the way my psychologist thought I was crazy just coming to see her about sound/speaker wire..ha!... She told me to get a new hobby like model airplane bldg.
Then she gave me a medical marijuana card..and told me this will make the music sound better than my cables do!
Thanks guys!!!
post #315 of 467
Quote:
Originally Posted by esh516 View Post

Oooook guys.
I'm not going to get into our test we did on Saturday,we did do correct testing protocol... Some wires...no difference..the more expensive ones yes..different
Oh dam..I said I wasn't getting into it..lol
Anyway..OK. After reading a lot about this( thanks Kbarnes).. I'm starting to sway away from what I DO hear..lol and I have always believed in your theory's
I just trusted my own ears!... Its like unsolved mystery's..
My straight wire crescendos do sound a lot..I do mean a lot different from the radio shack cheap stuff..again I can not explain that.
But OK...thank you..I will do more reading and try to better understand this whole process.
By the way my psychologist thought I was crazy just coming to see her about sound/speaker wire..ha!... She told me to get a new hobby like model airplane bldg.
 

 

Good news there Esh. The more you learn the harder it will be for manufacturers to deceive you!

 

Quote:
 Then she gave me a medical marijuana card..and told me this will make the music sound better than my cables do!
Thanks guys!!!

 

LOL. Now on that we can both agree 100%.:D 

post #316 of 467
Quote:
Originally Posted by esh516 View Post

... She told me to get a new hobby like model airplane bldg.
!!!

Good plan. Here's a shot of my Stearman.

post #317 of 467
That is sweet!
What kind of cables d..or i mean wood on that?
Is it a kit..or homemade?
post #318 of 467
It is actually called "almost ready to fly." The kits come 90% assembled. Mostly we need to add flight control servos, a motor and a radio receiver. Model building isn't my hobby but flying them is.
post #319 of 467
Oook....i stopped reading the hi- fi mags
I sold all my hi end cables..everything for 1200$!!!
I bought some inexpensive speaker/interconnects/ hdmi cables...70$ for all
Now its time to sit back and listen to some music!
Thanks guys
post #320 of 467
Quote:
Originally Posted by esh516 View Post

Oook....i stopped reading the hi- fi mags
I sold all my hi end cables..everything for 1200$!!!
I bought some inexpensive speaker/interconnects/ hdmi cables...70$ for all
Now its time to sit back and listen to some music!
Thanks guys

 

gimpgimpgimpgimpgimpgimpgimpgimp

post #321 of 467
....whoooaa...wait a minute!...omg..what have i done??!!.....NNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooooooooooo.......................
post #322 of 467
Quote:
Originally Posted by esh516 View Post

....whoooaa...wait a minute!...omg..what have i done?

My guess? Nothing that you have claimed so far...
post #323 of 467
The powerfull and magical sense of sound is truly a amazing gift for us all to have....i guess it just depends on how you hear it...
post #324 of 467
Quote:
The powerfull and magical sense of sound is truly a amazing gift for us all to have....i guess it just depends on how you hear it...
It probably depends on anything but that.
post #325 of 467
Quote:
Originally Posted by esh516 View Post

The powerfull and magical sense of sound is truly a amazing gift for us all to have....i guess it just depends on how you hear it...

How you hear sound has a lot to do with your memories of that sound.

The book "This Is Your Brain On Music" is a good exposition of how this all comes together in your brain.
post #326 of 467

haha i'll have to troll, is the technically touted superb  ESS sabre dac then mumbo-jumbo snake oil:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CkyrDIGzOE

23mins :20secs spot

 

as clearly Martin claims that some people can hear difference between Delta-sigma and "R2R" dac.

?!?!

 

hyperstream modulators and omg its exactly like snake-oil wheres the abx tests!!!!!

post #327 of 467
ABX tests are not capable of proving anything. They are based on beliefs (like a religion if you like) and they can just support that agenda.

I did believe in all that crap until, to my dismay, I found out that my brand-new D-S DACs (I have several from all the major manufacturers) are performing poorly when compared to an 90's R-2R DAC that I bought from eBay. Now I have a collection of those too...
post #328 of 467
Quote:
Originally Posted by nufi View Post

haha i'll have to troll, is the technically touted superb  ESS sabre dac then mumbo-jumbo snake oil:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CkyrDIGzOE
23mins :20secs spot

as clearly Martin claims that some people can hear difference between Delta-sigma and "R2R" dac.
?!?!

hyperstream modulators and omg its exactly like snake-oil wheres the abx tests!!!!!
It's been posted and explained already. And some funny reactions from a supporter as well.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1438570/low-vs-mid-vs-high-priced-dacs/90#post_22915967
post #329 of 467

please read heuristically the scientific method again:

The scientific method – the method wherein inquiry regards itself as fallible and purposely tests itself and criticizes, corrects, and improves itself.

 

By claiming ABX tests are not capable of proving anything i find my self greatly amused since double blind tests are approved way of showing differences in science in several fields...

THEY SHOW you if something is different or not and then if positive difference we can try to explain why is that and figure out how to improve.

(if the original abx test had only retarded engineers with tin ear's and spectrum analyzers, nobody is denying re-trial with other listeners)

 

by ignoring ABX you drop into lalaland where everybody's moronic opinion count's and no work gets done because its just arguments in internet that burrbrowwn dac is bestest instead philips and measurements can be ignored completely, since you won't ABX test actually verify if somebody can HEAR it, its merely enough for you if he says oh yeah i can hear da-thing but can you hear thiz-dathing? 

obviously nobody would really hear it since it would be mere lie to get you buy the hypersuperuberdacvn+1.

 

Engineers would just  revert trolling each other and make even more ridiculous mumbojumbo to cash you out... (FOR godsake it's in your own good to familiarize your self with testing)

and if your willing to spend big bucks on placebo, im not to judge but atleast i would buy LSD/THC or alcohol to get REAL effects...)

 

edided

thanks for link diomania.


Edited by nufi - 10/10/13 at 10:19am
post #330 of 467
Really? For example, when you measure the speed of a vehicle do you NEED double-blind tests? When you measure voltage or frequency do you NEED blind tests? Those are part of scientific method. No matter of your psychological state, the result of measurement is the same.

By the fact that you say that the double-blind is NEEDED, you already adventured in the 'belief' realm. Big Pharma relies on similar beliefs that their drugs will work... with a certain probability. But there is no certitude in that. Rolling dice is not science, is gambling.
You all present ABX like scientific certitude, and that is definitely NOT.
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