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Why I calibrate day mode to D75 - Page 2

post #31 of 93
The way I see it there's nothing subjective about it. Camera records RGB, media is Y Cb Cr, TV is RGB. The conversion to and from Y Cb Cr is done with matrix math, and the matrices are based on 4 quantities: a white point - d65 - and the three vertices of the color triangle (rec. 601 for SD and rec. 709 for HD). So those calibration points are the underpinnings of the design of the entire process. Anything else just doesn't meet the requirements.
post #32 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbillen View Post

I was horrified once when I watched a "making of" (the movie 'Seven'), and the guy editing the film transfer was just fiddling around with sat and tint levels. Though I know some decisions have to be made for handling the gamut change.

How else is the post production done? look at the film 300. Once you watch normal movies that film feels so deep and rich/contrast. Then after a few hours going back to normal films/broadcast it all feels dull after getting used to watching 300.

300 felt a bit sore on the eyes because everything looked so deep but nothing was getting crushed or burning my eyes from contrast. Nor did it look heavily saturated. It's a weird feeling as nothing was bleeding.
post #33 of 93
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti View Post

This is all simply ridiculous guys. If you want to see what you are suppose to see, use D65 and rec709 gamut.

If you don't care fiddle away, but please don't claim that you've discovered some new concept. There are so many scientific flaws with arguments made in favor of using something else in this thread. Also misconceptions about how professional colorists work (hint: it's their job to change tint and saturation of scenes). It just sounds like a 3rd grader trying to argue with their teacher that their comic books should count for summer reading, even though they aren't on the summer reading list.


Fidelity has nothing to do with personal preference, and cannot be judged by eye.

Don't posture me like I'm advocating D75. I'm discussing it.

Here's something ridiculous: Someone is personally and/or professionally involved in television images (for home use). Of the millions of televisions on the market nobody can seem to sell one that's D65 default out of the box. They must increase the color temperature to appeal to buyers, (even expensive ones). Yet this person refuses to even discuss the possibility that people might subjectively perceive a higher color temperature more accurately in a lit room!

That absolutely should not lead to a conclusion, but it makes the question one that is not ridiculous to discuss.

This talk about not judging images by eye is correct regarding the state of all of the equipment in a production pipeline. (That's where it came from). But it is not correct for a person sitting in a room watching a television. ALL that matters is that persons subjective perception of the image, nothing else.
post #34 of 93
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by xvfx View Post

How else is the post production done?

Well I know that now. At the time I didn't, I guess I thought there was a purely automated procedure to convert the film to video as accurately as possible.
post #35 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbillen View Post

Don't posture me like I'm advocating D75. I'm discussing it.\
And I'm telling you stop. It's a bad choice, there is nothing to discuss.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbillen View Post

Here's something ridiculous: Someone is personally and/or professionally involved in television images (for home use). Of the millions of televisions on the market nobody can seem to sell one that's D65 default out of the box.
Wrong again, most movie modes and THX modes are as close to D65 as you can get without individual calibration.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbillen View Post

But it is not correct for a person sitting in a room watching a television. ALL that matters is that persons subjective perception of the image, nothing else.

Wrong again. Your subjective opinion doesn't count. That's like saying the mona lisa looks better under a black light. Video is either correct or not, there is not a subjective aspect to accurately reproducing content. There are several other display forums where you can talk about your subjective preferences, but that topic doesn't have anything to do with calibration.


Comic books don't count for your summer reading.
post #36 of 93
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti View Post

And I'm telling you stop. It's a bad choice, there is nothing to discuss.
Wrong again, most movie modes and THX modes are as close to D65 as you can get without individual calibration.
Wrong again. Your subjective opinion doesn't count. That's like saying the mona lisa looks better under a black light. Video is either correct or not, there is not a subjective aspect to accurately reproducing content. There are several other display forums where you can talk about your subjective preferences, but that topic doesn't have anything to do with calibration.


Comic books don't count for your summer reading.

I disagree. I think it's a completely valid thing to discuss. If you're a moderator or something then close the thread. Otherwise if you don't like it, then go to a different one. (I doubt it would still be going if you hadn't chirped in).

I don't know of a set that has a default D65 setting, You have to switch to a special "cinema mode". Because nobody can sell a television that just boots up D65 for reasons you prefer not to consider.

My subjective opinion is the only thing that counts if the function of watching is my subjective enjoyment of content. The only thing at all with meaning in that context. You understand professional calibration, but don't understand what it's for. (Hint: professional applications - not entertainment - except to the extent that it's entertaining subjectively).

The comic book stuff is to imply that I'm trying to rationalize as "correct" a D75 setting. You believe this because you are incapable or unwilling to understand what I've said.
post #37 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbillen View Post

I disagree. I think it's a completely valid thing to discuss.
You are not discussing it, you are dictating to the forum. D75 has no scientific basis for being better for daylight. If anything it's worse than D65. If anything were likely to give you a better relative colorimetric match it would likely be something closer to D50. The print industry uses D50 precisely because so much of their content is viewed in daylight or indoors. If you are truly after making an relatively accurate calibration, you should divulge much more information about the environment. Wall color, the amount of ambient light, the color of the ambient light, the screen size, the viewing distance could all have an impact on your perception of the image.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dbillen View Post

I don't know of a set that has a default D65 setting, You have to switch to a special "cinema mode". Because nobody can sell a television that just boots up D65 for reasons you prefer not to consider.

I don't understand how that argument is even pertinent to this forum. But more and more devices are shipping with D65 as their default setting, ipads, nexus tablets, all variety of smartphones. I believe that if you take the TV out of Demo/Store mode even standard mode is getting closer to D65 these days. So it's just another of your misunderstandings, I believe it's you who might need to open your eyes and see the wider world of calibration.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dbillen View Post

My subjective opinion is the only thing that counts if the function of watching is my subjective enjoyment of content. The only thing at all with meaning in that context. You understand professional calibration, but don't understand what it's for.
You still don't understand. This forum is to help people understand why and how to accurately calibrate their displays. Doing what looks best for you in your living room is fine, but it's not a calibration topic, it belongs in a different forum.
Quote:
The comic book stuff is to imply that I'm trying to rationalize as "correct" a D75 setting. You believe this because you are incapable or unwilling to understand what I've said.
Right, and just like the teacher I have to roll my eyes. And rationalize is the correct word, it's not the right choice and there is no supporting argument for it. If you enjoy it, then go enjoy it. But setting up a TV for enjoyment is not the topic of this forum.
post #38 of 93
Just found this thread, on my computer monitor, D75 gave me 700:1 contrast while D65 gave me 800:1.

On my TV, the panel turns out to be almost D75.
post #39 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbillen View Post

I disagree. I think it's a completely valid thing to discuss. If you're a moderator or something then close the thread. Otherwise if you don't like it, then go to a different one. (I doubt it would still be going if you hadn't chirped in).

I don't know of a set that has a default D65 setting, You have to switch to a special "cinema mode". Because nobody can sell a television that just boots up D65 for reasons you prefer not to consider.

My subjective opinion is the only thing that counts if the function of watching is my subjective enjoyment of content. The only thing at all with meaning in that context. You understand professional calibration, but don't understand what it's for. (Hint: professional applications - not entertainment - except to the extent that it's entertaining subjectively).

The comic book stuff is to imply that I'm trying to rationalize as "correct" a D75 setting. You believe this because you are incapable or unwilling to understand what I've said.

It's true you can discuss it, and in fact you are. But this is the "display calibration" forum and what "display calibration" means is adjusting your video reproduction pipeline to conform with the well established video standard. So there really is no answer except that your opinion is incorrect. You probably shouldn't expect a "by golly you're right" reception when you come to the calibration forum and argue that calibrating wrong is the correct thing to do. No one is saying you can't do it. And no one is saying you're not allowed to like it. But it's not "calibration"; by definition.
post #40 of 93
For my eyes I see some magenta color on the tv in daytime,and later in the evening things look more green.Im sure everyones eyes see things different though.Might it mean I'm seeing a higher color temperature at night vs in the daytime.I believe the eyes are most accurate when you first get out of bed.
Edited by Vic12345 - 8/15/13 at 2:00am
post #41 of 93
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rmongiovi View Post

It's true you can discuss it, and in fact you are. But this is the "display calibration" forum and what "display calibration" means is adjusting your video reproduction pipeline to conform with the well established video standard. So there really is no answer except that your opinion is incorrect. You probably shouldn't expect a "by golly you're right" reception when you come to the calibration forum and argue that calibrating wrong is the correct thing to do. No one is saying you can't do it. And no one is saying you're not allowed to like it. But it's not "calibration"; by definition.

You're right. I do not want to be on this side of this discussion on this particular forum.

Things might have been better if I'd titled the thread as a question. I'd never seen a correctly calibrated D75 on a TV, (that I knew of), just out of the box "real blue". I was so shocked at how it looked I not only verified my settings but had to get out the meter to make sure there wasn't a mixup.

I thought I might get a response about a study that had been done on it, or an explanation of how it fools people but here's what to look for to understand why its worse, etc...

..but in a technical forum about the concrete science of calibration - aint gonna happen smile.gif
post #42 of 93
You should at least concede you're way out of your depth here, you're actually arguing with a developer of the Calman software. Like everyone said adjust your set as you like but it is not calibration.
post #43 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbillen View Post

The result? Fantastic! I've never seen such accurate looking inaccurate color

This thread should have died after the first post.
post #44 of 93
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti View Post

If anything were likely to give you a better relative colorimetric match it would likely be something closer to D50. The print industry uses D50 precisely because so much of their content is viewed in daylight or indoors.

That was the kind of interesting and useful information I was hoping to get. Thank you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti View Post

You are not discussing it, you are dictating to the forum.... I don't understand how that argument is even pertinent...it's just another of your misunderstandings, I believe it's you who might need to open your eyes.... You still don't understand.... ...I have to roll my eyes.

I deny all that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti View Post

...But setting up a TV for enjoyment is not the topic of this forum.

This I cede.

I think I'm starting to catch on to a different mind-set here.

I work in audio on devices used for performances Internally we engineers are all about correct signal reproduction. I've got studio monitors, etc, to hear what I'm working on - it's critical. But nobody even thinks about relying on calibration when it comes to making equipment sound good in a venue. It's fiddle away with EQ, compression, whatever is needed to sound good. People have all kinds of "tricks" to deal with a bad room, and maybe that's what I'm bringing here looking to exchange "tricks" to make a TV look good in daylight bad room.

But here it's different. I think even non-professionals have more like a prosumer audiophile mentality. Flat response! There's even a sense of advocacy or need-to-educate about the reasons for correct calibration. I get it.
post #45 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbillen View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by rmongiovi View Post

It's true you can discuss it, and in fact you are. But this is the "display calibration" forum and what "display calibration" means is adjusting your video reproduction pipeline to conform with the well established video standard. So there really is no answer except that your opinion is incorrect. You probably shouldn't expect a "by golly you're right" reception when you come to the calibration forum and argue that calibrating wrong is the correct thing to do. No one is saying you can't do it. And no one is saying you're not allowed to like it. But it's not "calibration"; by definition.

You're right. I do not want to be on this side of this discussion on this particular forum.

Things might have been better if I'd titled the thread as a question. I'd never seen a correctly calibrated D75 on a TV, (that I knew of), just out of the box "real blue". I was so shocked at how it looked I not only verified my settings but had to get out the meter to make sure there wasn't a mixup.

I thought I might get a response about a study that had been done on it, or an explanation of how it fools people but here's what to look for to understand why its worse, etc...

..but in a technical forum about the concrete science of calibration - aint gonna happen smile.gif
You have been given solid answers earlier in the thread about your questions and experimental methods. Your perceptions are due to the nature of how the human visual system works, as it is affected by viewing environment conditions. The claims you make about the intent of video reproduction in post #36 are fallacious. Video is a mass communication medium. Fidelity is not consciously understood or considered a priority by large portions of the viewing public. That does not mean program authors do not want their audience to correctly experience what they have produced.

The video medium is technology and science in the service of art and communication. Many consumers have only a superficial concept of video's purpose and care more about their own thoughts and perceptions than what is involved in the medium's content creation and delivery. Many video hobbyists' primary concern is: "Am I sufficiently entertained?" Such viewers often fail to value program fidelity. For them, image characteristics can be legitimately altered in any way, as long as they perceive it as appealing.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.
A Lion AV Consultants affiliate

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"
Edited by GeorgeAB - 8/15/13 at 8:58am
post #46 of 93
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post

You should at least concede you're way out of your depth here, you're actually arguing with a developer of the Calman software. Like everyone said adjust your set as you like but it is not calibration.

We never got into a technical discussion. It was all about the topic relevance. (Which I ceded I was in the wrong forum right before I saw this post).
post #47 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbillen View Post

Don't posture me like I'm advocating D75. I'm discussing it.

Here's something ridiculous: Someone is personally and/or professionally involved in television images (for home use). Of the millions of televisions on the market nobody can seem to sell one that's D65 default out of the box. They must increase the color temperature to appeal to buyers, (even expensive ones). Yet this person refuses to even discuss the possibility that people might subjectively perceive a higher color temperature more accurately in a lit room!

That absolutely should not lead to a conclusion, but it makes the question one that is not ridiculous to discuss.

This talk about not judging images by eye is correct regarding the state of all of the equipment in a production pipeline. (That's where it came from). But it is not correct for a person sitting in a room watching a television. ALL that matters is that persons subjective perception of the image, nothing else.

That is just GOOFY logic. You are describing the "Crow Syndrome" and nothing more. Crows are attracted to shiny things... for no reason. They can't eat them, the objects don't protect them from predators, the shiny objects do nothing to enhance the life of a crow in any way, yet crows like them.

If you calibrate ONE TV and put it up on a video wall at a big box store (are any left besides Best Buy?) and people with zero knowledge of what is accurate would 100% of the time pick some other TV that is way too bright, way off in color settings, way off in grayscale/gamma... because with video images the uneducated masses are just like crows. They are CLUELESS and driven by factors they know nothing about and don't even THINK about. That does NOT make them right.
post #48 of 93
dbillen if you really want some advice on what professionals would do with calibrating for daytime in your room, asking would probably be a great start. We aren't ignorant to that use. We know that the rules you apply at nighttime don't apply during the day.

I believe you said you had an i1Pro, do you have the ambient attachment for it (should come with the meter new)?

If you do, take some measurements of total amount of ambient light as well as the color temperature of the light falling on the display. Try snapping a picture of the wall the TV will be on to give us some context about the color of the surround, for the display. If I was calibrating during the day, I'd probably try calibrating with an ambient light offset or use the meter in non-contact mode, I'd likely use the BT.1886 formula to make sure I come out of black in a way that doesn't clip shadows with the ambient light. I'd likely still use D65, rec.709 as the calibration targets, unless their was an obvious dominant color shift for the room and then you can fudge one way or the other. But you want to fudge towards the color of light in the room, and daylight is usually redder not bluer than D65.

For the most part since we know we can't reproduce correctly with ambient light and that for different times of the day, there will be large perceptive errors, we basically start with pumping up the light output and lowering the gamma, rarely do we get into moving the whitepoint, since that would in an audio world sort of be like trying to add time phase correction for one listening positions in a room with moving walls, there may be a more accurate average position, but it's impossible for their to be a single right answer.

I know a PHD at the Rochester Institute of Technology who was working on modeling how to factor daylight into making an accurate reproduction as possible using a live ambient colorimeter. That kind of compensation is something that may happen in the future, but we don't have good proven models for use in the field yet.
post #49 of 93
I do not have a dedicated home cinema so my family insist that the main TV is positioned in the living room of my house so it is subject to all sorts of ambient light changes particularly during daytime where in my part of the world we can have all four seasons in one hour.
Ambient light can vary so much particularly in afternoons where sunshine can flit in and out of my viewing ambiance.

The use of night and day settings that presumably adjust gamma alone whilst maintaining Colour Temperature (D65) were what I used on my previous panel (A Toshiba CCFL LCD). This helped to give me watchable PQ but was far from ideal.
I have recently changed to a Sharp Edge Lit LED LCD which I have calibrated to D65 with a gamma of 2.2.

What a difference.

Daytime viewing is excellent bearing in mind my weather variations and frankly I have not bothered with a gamma change to suit nighttime viewing.

I am not an expert, just an amateur who calibrates for a hobby, so I wonder if my experience is typical, ie does the type of Display make ambient light differences less obvious to PQ?
Certainly with exactly the same calibration settings my LED 'looks' brighter than my CCFL model.
My eyes not only prefer this extra PQ but they can actually adjust to the different weather conditions and still get an acceptable PQ.

No doubt the purists would frown on my 'TV for all seasons' and maybe I am more easily pleased than others.
Edited by PE06MCG - 8/16/13 at 1:07am
post #50 of 93
Greetings

The purist watches programs in total light control all the time. And then there is everyone else.

This day mode stuff was addressed in Video #20. smile.gif

As Doug so eloquently recapped earlier on.

Sun light changes color through out the day. Morning sun ... noon sun ... evening sun ... and then cloudy days and rainy days change things too ... and the seasons change things too ... green leaves on the trees ... no leaves on the trees.

There can't be a one day mode fits all. You cannot have reference viewing in a non-reference environment. So the day mode is just one giant compromise.

Typical things that get adjusted for day more ...

Backlight gets boosted to max.
Brightness gets bumped up a few clicks
Gamma gets set to be brighter
Color triangle selection goes to something potentially larger than 709.

Anyone expecting reference viewing in the day time needs the head examined.

regards
post #51 of 93
Thanks Michael,

Regarding my LED versus my CCFL, the 'compromise' PQ seems to work better for the former despite my best efforts to calibrate both to the same standard.

Is this down to scientific progress regarding display manufacturing?
It certainly copes with my variable environment much better.
post #52 of 93
Greetings

Your CCFL set is also older ... bulb worn down more ...

The LED sets have better CR/dynamic range than their CCFL counterparts.

Things just get better and better with each year.

Regards
post #53 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael TLV View Post

Greetings

The purist watches programs in total light control all the time. And then there is everyone else.

Who are the purists though? some people on forums seem more hardcore or make themselves more aware than film producers/editors etc

Are these people like on this forum honestly sitting watching tv through the entire day, 7 days a week, switching to 3 different calibrated modes each day at each specific time?
Quote:
This day mode stuff was addressed in Video #20. smile.gif

As Doug so eloquently recapped earlier on.

Sun light changes color through out the day. Morning sun ... noon sun ... evening sun ... and then cloudy days and rainy days change things too ... and the seasons change things too ... green leaves on the trees ... no leaves on the trees.

There can't be a one day mode fits all. You cannot have reference viewing in a non-reference environment. So the day mode is just one giant compromise.

Typical things that get adjusted for day more ...

Backlight gets boosted to max.
Brightness gets bumped up a few clicks
Gamma gets set to be brighter
Color triangle selection goes to something potentially larger than 709.

Anyone expecting reference viewing in the day time needs the head examined.

regards

This sounds already on the path of obsessive compulsive disorder. I'm not trying to make it sound derogatory. But at what point unless you're into movie making does one stop running things and changing modes from specific times that it doesn't appear that one is running a nuclear reactor?

I mean, for so long now reading some of the stuff on calibration here, some people make it sound like the set will explode if the levels aren't right. Or what you're watching thats maybe 2 - 5% off thats changed from noon to afternoon sun, as if you've just failed a crucial exam. Sitting all the time with light meter levels. So to speak. smile.gif

It sounds far too extreme. I'm all for a proper looking picture, but at what point does the OCD stop?
Edited by xvfx - 8/16/13 at 11:37am
post #54 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by xvfx View Post

It sounds far too extreme. I'm all for a proper looking picture, but at what point does the OCD stop?

I think 2 modes is where you stop. A night mode that is super accurate and a day mode that has the compensation needed to overcome the major issues like shadow detail and light output.

Since the day mode can never truly overcome the issues with ambient light, you just do one calibration for day that is good enough and live with it. If you want more accuracy close the curtains.
post #55 of 93
It's a shame tv's don't have timed modes that you can set to a schedule rather than remembering to manually change. I never see tv until night anyway.
post #56 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by xvfx View Post

It's a shame tv's don't have timed modes that you can set to a schedule rather than remembering to manually change. I never see tv until night anyway.

I had a hitachi RPTV that did actually.
post #57 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti View Post

I think 2 modes is where you stop. A night mode that is super accurate and a day mode that has the compensation needed to overcome the major issues like shadow detail and light output.

I agree, but instead of Day vs. Night, I would do BT1886 (hopefully for "new" titles) vs Power Law (for old titles.) BT1886 should be able to do double duty as a "day" mode. Then again, I don't put my TVs in the solarium, so I don't really see the point of separate day and night modes. One "super accurate" mode works fine for me. wink.gif
post #58 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTVChallenged View Post

I agree, but instead of Day vs. Night, I would do BT1886 (hopefully for "new" titles) vs Power Law (for old titles.) BT1886 should be able to do double duty as a "day" mode. Then again, I don't put my TVs in the solarium, so I don't really see the point of separate day and night modes. One "super accurate" mode works fine for me. wink.gif

What about older, older titles that had their transfers done on a CRT, that is best emulated with BT.1886? BT.1886 is essentially an attempt to formalize CRT behavior.

More than that, for a daylight calibration you really need to take in the ambient light, the minimum black level is going to be your TV + ambient, which can really alter BT.1886, although that's not strictly what BT.1886 is designed to do. Anyway you can factor in the ambient light will be better for a daytime calibration.
Edited by sotti - 8/17/13 at 1:41am
post #59 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti View Post

What about older, older titles that had their transfers done on a CRT, that is best emulated with BT.1886? BT.1886 is essentially an attempt to formalize CRT behavior.

... The problem being that without some kind of label ("This title uses BT1886," or "This title uses Power Law with gamma = 2.35," etc. etc.) on the DVD/BD package we're still just guessing.
Quote:
More than that, for a daylight calibration you really need to take in the ambient light, the minimum black level is going to be your TV + ambient, which can really alter BT.1886, although that's not strictly what BT.1886 is designed to do. Anyway you can factor in the ambient light will be better for a daytime calibration.

True ... I guess my point was that I can get by just fine with just "the one, super accurate mode" even in "broad daylight" because I don't install my TV's where "broad daylight" is a significant factor. There is filtered light during the day, but not enough to really cause problems. wink.gif

PS: Actually, this discussion led me to go back and re-analyze my last calibration run, whereupon I discovered that I got a wee bit impatient and sloppy with the power-law gamma below 30%. I let it drift up toward 2.3 vs. the target of 2.2. Perhaps, I will revisit the issue tonight, the last time, I was more interested in seeing if the set would calibrate all the way up to digital 254 without any nasty side effects.
post #60 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti View Post

I think 2 modes is where you stop. A night mode that is super accurate and a day mode that has the compensation needed to overcome the major issues like shadow detail and light output.

Since the day mode can never truly overcome the issues with ambient light, you just do one calibration for day that is good enough and live with it. If you want more accuracy close the curtains.
y

Hi Joel,

Certainly my 'Day Mode' calibration works very well on my LED compared to my CCFL for the reasons that Michael explained previously. (thanks Michael for that and your videos).

My observations are based on being compelled to have kids TV on regularly at about 4pm to 5.30pm for my grandchildren.
Previous 'sunshine' during this time using the CCFL was simply unwatchable (as far as the grandkids were concerned), not so now.
Using sunshine as a means to turn off the TV and get them to prefer outside activities has become very difficult.

Not very scientific I know but there is a remarkable difference between the 2 TV's using exactly the same D65 and 2.2 gamma.and with my LED TV in the same position as my CCFL in the room.

I suppose I am saying certain hardware 'types' appear to be more / less vulnerable to ambient light changes on the same calibrated settings.

I would love to have a dedicated viewing room but that is impossible so perhaps others like me who are amateur calibrators but must compromise ought to be looking for specific types of display that are from a visual point of view less prone to ambient light changes.

The OP suggested using D75 as an option to make his calibration more viewable, perhaps choosing a more compliant Display would be another choice?

A PJ would presumably be bottom of my 'Ambient Light Tolerance' list but how does it progress from there?
Are Plasmas better than LED's, etc..

Just curious.
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