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NEW RANGE JVC 2014 - Page 65

post #1921 of 3981
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geof View Post

Long, short, indefinite????

Looking like an extra week.
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post #1922 of 3981
My Canadian dealer has been told they are to be delivered the 2nd week of December.
post #1923 of 3981
Working on the IA firmware no doubt. A weeks' delay is okay by me if they get 'em right!
post #1924 of 3981
Did you order one Geof? If so, which model?
post #1925 of 3981
Yes Rich, I have an RS57 preordered. It seems like the sweet spot in this years lineup.
post #1926 of 3981
Cool, same here. That's pretty much been the sweet spot for the JVCs for years now, I think.

I'm starting to get quite excited about the..now delayed!...arrival of my new projector.
post #1927 of 3981
what is that old saying, the anticipation is sometimes greater than the event.. smile.gif

I've been doing some testing of the 2041 this weekend but ran out of time yesterday. It took me a few minutes to figure out how to change the built in darbee controls.

I should have more time with it later tonight.
post #1928 of 3981
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

what is that old saying, the anticipation is sometimes greater than the event.. smile.gif

I've been doing some testing of the 2041 this weekend but ran out of time yesterday. It took me a few minutes to figure out how to change the built in darbee controls.

I should have more time with it later tonight.
Boy you get all the nice new toys.....eek.gif
post #1929 of 3981
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

what is that old saying, the anticipation is sometimes greater than the event.. smile.gif

I've been doing some testing of the 2041 this weekend but ran out of time yesterday. It took me a few minutes to figure out how to change the built in darbee controls.

I should have more time with it later tonight.

Holy cow. It's like if you mention a cool device, you end up with it!

I'll be curious to know of any insights you get in using the 2041, that would be useful to pass on to us other 2041 owners.
(Mine goes into my system about the same time as my RS57).
post #1930 of 3981
Zombie. Call me tonight if you need some help. Did it automatically set itself up to 4K out? Do you know how to change the out put resolution? It is not much different than my XS except for the Darbee, the 729 point CMS, and the scaling to UHD or 4K. I would suggest outputting 3840 x 2160 and comparing the ring free scaling readjusting the RC to 1, 4. comaped to outputting 1080p and letting the Sony upscale to UHD with its ringing and impact of the RC set to whatever you think it should be set to. look at the HF detail compared to the HF masking caused by the ringing.
post #1931 of 3981
So here's an ignorant question, and I'm sure not the place for it. But it seems everyone on the forums who has a decent projector has a darbee, or darblet etc. What are else devices for? I glanced at some info a couple years ago and it seemed it was for sharpening the image more than anything?
post #1932 of 3981
It increases the contrast resolution bring out more detail with adding artifacts if used in moderation. Call AV Science and they can get you one quickly, Its a cost effective upgrade.
Edited by mark haflich - 11/30/13 at 5:38pm
post #1933 of 3981
Quote:
Originally Posted by sk576c View Post

So here's an ignorant question, and I'm sure not the place for it. But it seems everyone on the forums who has a decent projector has a darbee, or darblet etc. What are else devices for? I glanced at some info a couple years ago and it seemed it was for sharpening the image more than anything?

Sent you a PM. smile.gif Currently sitting in Diddle area waiting for the WKU game to start.
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post #1934 of 3981
I'll bite as an ignorant northerner living south of the Mason Dixon line. What is the Diddle area? I assume it is not where Bo sits.
post #1935 of 3981
post #1936 of 3981
Ah. A typical MG typo. He meant to type arena, not area. I retract my question..
post #1937 of 3981
How is it going with the Lumagen? Since I assume you are using it with the Sony VPL-vw1000ES, maybe we should discus it there.
post #1938 of 3981
Can you please help me with what would be an optimal throw for my soon to be set up?

Pj: Rs4910
Screen gain : 1.3
Screen aspect ratio : 2.35
Screen diagonal : 133"

I have a room that is 27 feet long. What is the optimal throw distance for me to put the projector? Thanks in advance!
post #1939 of 3981
smile.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geof View Post

Yes Rich, I have an RS57 preordered. It seems like the sweet spot in this years lineup.

Ditto! smile.gif
post #1940 of 3981
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

Mid throw and Foot Lamberts look good on a 1.0 gain screen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Ric. Your throw is 187 inches. Your screen width is 92 inches. If you divide 187 by 92 the result is 2.03. Close enough to further refer to it as a 2.0 throw. The JVCs have a throw range from 1.4 to 2.8 times the screen width. Zoom ratio for what its worth is 2.8/1.4 or 2. OK back to throw ratios. Once again the range is 1.4 to 2.8 and your projector will be at 2.0. Mid throw would be at 2.1. I know you knew that. So you will be a little short of mid throw. In my book, the position which has lost almost all of the brightness advantage of close throw and almost all of the contrast advantage of long throw. But things should work fine at this throw and your screen is tiny so almost any projector will be bright enough even with a unity gain screen. Of course with such a screen which has a wide half gain angle, you need non reflective surfaces surrounding the screen not to lose low levels through wash out.

Mike and Mark - thanks.

IIRC the spec is 1300 lumens which is short throw and iris fully opened and high lamp. So I figure roughly I lost say 30% brightness for being at mid throw, and another 30% for running in low lamp. So that leaves call it 650 lumens. On my 106" diag 1.3 gain original Firehawk that should give me about 25ftL. Last I checked I think I am getting about 16ftL from my VW95 which I find plenty bright, so this leaves room for me to close the iris down and pick up extra on/off. I'm going to guess that at mid throw in low lamp with the iris closed down some I'd probably be at about 30,000:1 with the RS49 and about 40,000:1 with the RS57. Compared to the native 10,000:1 from the VW95 that is a very nice improvement in this area.

Do these guestimates seem right to you guys?
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

Looking like an extra week.

So we are back to "two more weeks"? biggrin.gif Where have we seen this movie before?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geof View Post

Yes Rich, I have an RS57 preordered. It seems like the sweet spot in this years lineup.

I'm on the fence between the 49 and 57. As I understand it, to get the max benefit of the CR advantage of the RS57 you have to run it with the iris fully or nearly fully closed. And as soon as you start opening it up even just a bit, it very quickly starts to lose its on/off advantage. Considering I have a Lumagen to handle the calibration controls I'm not sure there's enough of an advantage of the 57 to justify its cost compared to the RS49. Also I am looking at this pj as a hold-me-over for a year to see if we get cheaper 4K options for next year, so that's another reason why I am favoring the 49.

Thoughts?
post #1941 of 3981
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post


Mike and Mark - thanks.

IIRC the spec is 1300 lumens which is short throw and iris fully opened and high lamp. So I figure roughly I lost say 30% brightness for being at mid throw, and another 30% for running in low lamp. So that leaves call it 650 lumens. On my 106" diag 1.3 gain original Firehawk that should give me about 25ftL. Last I checked I think I am getting about 16ftL from my VW95 which I find plenty bright, so this leaves room for me to close the iris down and pick up extra on/off. I'm going to guess that at mid throw in low lamp with the iris closed down some I'd probably be at about 30,000:1 with the RS49 and about 40,000:1 with the RS57. Compared to the native 10,000:1 from the VW95 that is a very nice improvement in this area.

Do these guestimates seem right to you guys?
So we are back to "two more weeks"? biggrin.gif Where have we seen this movie before?
I'm on the fence between the 49 and 57. As I understand it, to get the max benefit of the CR advantage of the RS57 you have to run it with the iris fully or nearly fully closed. And as soon as you start opening it up even just a bit, it very quickly starts to lose its on/off advantage. Considering I have a Lumagen to handle the calibration controls I'm not sure there's enough of an advantage of the 57 to justify its cost compared to the RS49. Also I am looking at this pj as a hold-me-over for a year to see if we get cheaper 4K options for next year, so that's another reason why I am favoring the 49.

Thoughts?

Your considirations are similar to mine. I will run closest to screen as I can to get best lumens output, meaning the IRIS will be open. I doubt I'll be able to notice the difference. The auto lens cover is the only feature I'm missing on the 4910.
post #1942 of 3981
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post


Mike and Mark - thanks.

IIRC the spec is 1300 lumens which is short throw and iris fully opened and high lamp. So I figure roughly I lost say 30% brightness for being at mid throw, and another 30% for running in low lamp. So that leaves call it 650 lumens. On my 106" diag 1.3 gain original Firehawk that should give me about 25ftL. Last I checked I think I am getting about 16ftL from my VW95 which I find plenty bright, so this leaves room for me to close the iris down and pick up extra on/off. I'm going to guess that at mid throw in low lamp with the iris closed down some I'd probably be at about 30,000:1 with the RS49 and about 40,000:1 with the RS57. Compared to the native 10,000:1 from the VW95 that is a very nice improvement in this area.

Do these guestimates seem right to you guys?
So we are back to "two more weeks"? biggrin.gif Where have we seen this movie before?
I'm on the fence between the 49 and 57. As I understand it, to get the max benefit of the CR advantage of the RS57 you have to run it with the iris fully or nearly fully closed. And as soon as you start opening it up even just a bit, it very quickly starts to lose its on/off advantage. Considering I have a Lumagen to handle the calibration controls I'm not sure there's enough of an advantage of the 57 to justify its cost compared to the RS49. Also I am looking at this pj as a hold-me-over for a year to see if we get cheaper 4K options for next year, so that's another reason why I am favoring the 49.

Thoughts?

My only thought is for any given setup a '57 will have more contrast than a '49. Now you may not be able to operate both projectors with the same iris setting (because the double iris RS57 has less light output than the single iris RS49 at similar iris settings) so you may not achieve double the on/off but I'd still expect a respectable gain in on/off with the '57. At least that is what sways me but I'm running with an Iris setting of -12 with a '4810 and expect to be in that same neighborhood with the (100 limen brighter) '57. In any event I would calibrate an RS49 and RS57 similarly and with that being the case the higher contrast machine will have more separation between levels 16 and 17 (ie, given identical gammas level 17 would be the same in each case but for level 16 the higher on/off RS57 would be darker than the '49. How much this matters is an individual thing I suppose but for me it's worth the extra $$ (sadly native on/off costs $$).

Rich,
I don't disagree that for many the middle tier (RS55,56,57) machines have been the sweet spot in the JVC lineup but I think that is true even moreso this year. Why? There is more (on/off) separation between the RS49 and RS57 than last years RS48 and RS56 and there is less separation between this years RS57 and RS67 than there is between last years RS56 and RS66. IOW, the middle tier machine has moved closer to the upper end and a distanced itself a bit more from the lower end. I think this is probably by design and I'm guessing that next year the middle tier (ie the RS57 replacement) becomes the top of the line eshift model and the RS67 replacement will be the lone true 4K model in their lineup.
post #1943 of 3981
Once again, if one has enough on/off to support the gamma they choose to run (say on/screen a conservative 45,000 to one), even large jumps in on/off just are not all that noticeable and still leave black screens looking gray.
Edited by mark haflich - 12/1/13 at 7:19am
post #1944 of 3981
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Once again, if one has enough on/off to support the gamma they choose to run (say on/screen a conservative 45,000 to one), even large jumps in on/off just are noit all that noticeable and still leave black screens looking gray.

Again, how much this matters is an individual thing but for me it's worth the extra dough.
post #1945 of 3981
Increasing on/offs generates a lot of one year flips. Can you imagine the R&D that goes on each year to bring you a yearly increase to a level they just couldn't possibly reach the year before? Right now projector engineers are seeking yet another breakthrough by working close to 24/7, another innovation which they seem to come up with annually to increase that extra on off which most will not even notice but looks so great in the ad wars. Can you imagine the anguish JVC had within its organization to finally add a dynamic iris to its line up so that JVC could compete spec wise with the other DI projectors? At least this year the increase will be huge unlike next year where it still will go up and will at least be noticeable along with he artifacting that most will deny. I normally don't see DI artifacts unless I look for them and I don't look for them. I don't see them on my Sony, and I am happy..
Edited by mark haflich - 12/1/13 at 9:30am
post #1946 of 3981
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Increasing on/offs generates a lot of one year flips. Can you imagine the R&D that goes on each year to bring you a yearly increase to a level they just couldn't possibly reach the year before? Right now projector engineers are seeking yet another breakthrough by working close to 24/7, another innovation which they seem to come up with annually to increase that extra on off which most will not even notice but looks so great in the ad wars. Can you imagine the anguish JVC had within its organization to finally add a dynamic iris to its line up so that JVC could increase spec wise with the other DI projectors? At least this year the increase will be huge unlike next year where it still will go up and will at least be noticeable along with he artifacting that most will deny. I don't see it normally either unless I look for it and I don't look for it , I don't see it on my Sony, and I am happy..
Not to argue about this but in my case I expect to double my on/off this year (or thereabouts) as I'm running with an iris of -12 and moving from a 50K spec'd machine to a brighter 120K spec'd machine. When my RS55 went south I "downgraded" to an RS4810 and I did notice the reduced on/off. That said, a doubling of On/Off is about my threshold where I would consider upgrading.....lessor on/off differences don't entice me all that much but a 2x gain starts to get my attention. I should clarify that I'm not trying to talk anyone into anything. I presented MY rational and (trust me) I have given this one helluva lot of thought for my situation. But everyone is different as your posts demonstrate and it's good to read your dissenting opinion as it evens out the discussion.
post #1947 of 3981
has there been any discussion about an increase in ANSI with the panel change? Or possibly a different e-shift element for round 3 that could affect the ANSI (in a positive way as they did with e-shift 1->2) ?
post #1948 of 3981
Not that I know of. ANSI doesn't make it into the press or the specifications because as you know its a small number compared to the tens of thousands and hundred of thousands for on off. Can you imagine ads that say we have an ANSI of 200 and they only have 130? I will ask again, by PM is OK, how are you doing with the Lumagen? Its operation is not intuitively obvious.
post #1949 of 3981
mark, hi no problems with setting up the 2041, i'm used to the menus from the mini 3D. I had a 6 hour marathon last night looking at RC, 2041 and 4K HTPC scaling, I'll have some comparison info later tonight when I get home.
post #1950 of 3981
I seem to remember looking up past discussions about JVC/DLA/ANSI and that there seemed to be a limit with current DLA technology in terms of eaking out higher ANSI. Someone (was it mark haflich?) mentioned
talking with engineers working with the highest end DLA projectors and even with the best lenses and best efforts, they were still stuck with about the same ANSI as the consumer JVC projectors have been producing.

As for on/off contrast and how noticeable it is. I went from the JVC RS20 at 50:0001 contrast to the RS55 at 80,000:1 contrast. I was very cautious in expecting any visible differences but was happily surprised to see a clear uptick in the dynamics of the image across the board. It produced images that I know I'd never seen from my RS20, no matter what setting or how new the bulb had been. In my set up, it wasn't so much darker black levels as it was an over all more punchy looking image especially in terms of how brilliant the bright high-lights looked - for instance concert footage, like in my Stevie Wonder in concert Blu-Ray, the concert lights piercing the darkness of the concert hall just looked brighter, more piercing and more real on the RS55 than they ever did on the RS20. That was true of anything I watched.

It was weird because for me the difference actually looked more like what I'd expect in getting higher ANSI contrast, yet if anything the ANSI of the RS55 was supposed to be a bit lower than the RS20, due to the first gen E-shift. However, I later read some posts by DarinP that illustrated why higher native on/off contrast would produce the type of improvements I was seeing.

The RS57 will be 120,000:1 vs my RS55's 80,000:1. I'm again being cautious about not having high expectations, but it would be nice to see a similar visible increase in dynamics.
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