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NEW RANGE JVC 2014 - Page 101

post #3001 of 3981
Quote:
Originally Posted by krichter1 View Post

Again a picture being with a thousand words…



But mate… what's with the TUBE Telly!? tongue.gifwink.gif

That TUBE Telly...is something I craved for(and saved for) back in the day...it ain't goin' nowhere biggrin.gif ......it's a Sony Profeel Cubic Monitor:

http://www.thevintageknob.org/VIDEO/PROFEEL/PROFEEL.html
post #3002 of 3981
Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

I'm wondering if JVC is aware of all the issues that have come up with the new projectors.

I suppose a single HDMI bug issue could be behind most of the problems.

However, there's also the problem of the focus menu in these projectors, where E-shift is automatically turned on when you engage the focusing with the focus pattern - exactly the opposite of what you need it to do, and presumably
this was a foul-up on someone's part in the programming. I really hope that is fixed too, as it's made attempts to focus a real pain for owners, from what I've read.


I am also having a problem with the 2D to 3D conversion, which isn't discussed much here, but if I try to change any setting on that menu, it freezes the menus and I can't even turn the projector off and nothing on the remote works. Can anyone else try it and see if they have this problem? It either freezes or started going up and down the list highlighting each selection and keeps doing that over and over.
post #3003 of 3981
Quote:
Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post

Mark how do you compare the "new" cheaper 4K Sony to say a X900, would you think it would still be better?

Most people look for the best blacks, what are the things that the Sony has to offer that makes you prepared to sacrifice native contrast?

You don't have a huge screen so it cant be the extra lumens the Sony has over the JVCs.

Interested in your thoughts.....


I have not seen the 500/600 but carefully read zombie's observations of the optical differences between Mike G's. 600 and Zombie's 1000ES. I have seen content from the puck on the 900s. It is very good, brighter than from a projector but of course its a much smaller screen being only 84 inches D. Still looks very good. Obviously, I have examined all published info on the lens in the 600 vs the 1000ES. The design compromises are very obvious and the reported viewing results are predictable.
post #3004 of 3981
Predictable based on what? Cost?? Dollar for dollar I've been FAR more impressed with the lenses on the JVC line compared to the same priced Sony projectors (95, 35, 50, 55). They typically aren't even close when it comes to pixel focus and CA. I think I mentioned before that it would be a bit of a reach to say that the 600 would have a better lens than a higher end JVC simply because it costs more. From what I've read from Zombie the Sony definitely looks better with 4K material but that seems like a predictable viewing result simply because it is a native panel. A native panel with a crappy lens will probably look better than a scaled image with a good lens because the scaling quality can cause LOTS of issues. How well does the Sony 600 resolve pixel focus and MTF compared to a JVC? That has nothing to do with how well it looks with native 4K content compared to the JVC. I have no doubt that the Sony probably looks spectacular with both 1080p and 4K, but price is NOT indicative of lens quality.
post #3005 of 3981
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

Predictable based on what? Cost?? Dollar for dollar I've been FAR more impressed with the lenses on the JVC line compared to the same priced Sony projectors (95, 35, 50, 55). They typically aren't even close when it comes to pixel focus and CA. I think I mentioned before that it would be a bit of a reach to say that the 600 would have a better lens than a higher end JVC simply because it costs more. From what I've read from Zombie the Sony definitely looks better with 4K material but that seems like a predictable viewing result simply because it is a native panel. A native panel with a crappy lens will probably look better than a scaled image with a good lens because the scaling quality can cause LOTS of issues. How well does the Sony 600 resolve pixel focus and MTF compared to a JVC? That has nothing to do with how well it looks with native 4K content compared to the JVC. I have no doubt that the Sony probably looks spectacular with both 1080p and 4K, but price is NOT indicative of lens quality.

I read awhile back that JVC lens is good enough for 4k, which they use for their eshift projectors. If Sony MB cost $2500 to upgrade in their 1000ES, how much will it cost JVC to do something similar to their eshift projectors? $1500 added to each projector, bringing the cost of something like the RS49/X5000 to $6500.
post #3006 of 3981
Quote:
Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post

I read awhile back that JVC lens is good enough for 4k, which they use for their eshift projectors. If Sony MB cost $2500 to upgrade in their 1000ES, how much will it cost JVC to do something similar to their eshift projectors? $1500 added to each projector, bringing the cost of something like the RS49/X5000 to $6500.

JVC isn't going to offer an upgrade to their MB. What incentive is there? Sony did it because if they didn't they left their high cost of ownership early adopters out in the cold with their very own streaming service. Even if JVC had HDCP 2.2 it wouldn't work with the Sony server. It will play anything else currently on the market and in the near future. By the time we have a true universal 4K playback system, I'm sure JVC will have something out that is true 4K. But I don't think it is a bad move to hold out considering the abysmal dearth of 4K content. I'm sure Sony will have more offerings down the road too at price points more in line with their 95ES and eventually the 55.
post #3007 of 3981
The JVC's use a 17 element all glass lens. The amazing thing, is the entry level JVC gets this lens.
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post #3008 of 3981
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

JVC isn't going to offer an upgrade to their MB. What incentive is there? Sony did it because if they didn't they left their high cost of ownership early adopters out in the cold with their very own streaming service. Even if JVC had HDCP 2.2 it wouldn't work with the Sony server. It will play anything else currently on the market and in the near future. By the time we have a true universal 4K playback system, I'm sure JVC will have something out that is true 4K. But I don't think it is a bad move to hold out considering the abysmal dearth of 4K content. I'm sure Sony will have more offerings down the road too at price points more in line with their 95ES and eventually the 55.

I wasn't saying offer and upgrade. Basically adding something true 4k to the next year models, like how they made the RS48 eshift.
post #3009 of 3981
Gotcha. That is pretty much inevitable, but I doubt you'll see a bit cost upshift. JVC tends to price their models the same each year regardless of new tech. I can see it maybe getting small bumps, but nothing as massive as the gap between Sony's 95 and 600 was. I'm really surprised they are leaving that hole.
post #3010 of 3981
If they can use a 4K lens with 50k contrast to their $3500 model and eshift to their $5000 model. How much more will a true 4k unit cost?
post #3011 of 3981
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

JVC isn't going to offer an upgrade to their MB. What incentive is there? Sony did it because if they didn't they left their high cost of ownership early adopters out in the cold with their very own streaming service. Even if JVC had HDCP 2.2 it wouldn't work with the Sony server. It will play anything else currently on the market and in the near future. By the time we have a true universal 4K playback system, I'm sure JVC will have something out that is true 4K. But I don't think it is a bad move to hold out considering the abysmal dearth of 4K content. I'm sure Sony will have more offerings down the road too at price points more in line with their 95ES and eventually the 55.

I agree. It is not definite that JVC will even have a 4K projector next year. I have asked a couple of times and have not gotten a yes answer.
Edited by AV Science Sales 5 - 1/9/14 at 2:20pm
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post #3012 of 3981
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

I agree. It is not definite that JVC will even have a 4K projector next year.

If 4K blu ray is still not ready, then they should wait. But what other tricks can they have up their sleeves with 2k panels?
post #3013 of 3981
Quote:
Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post

If 4K blu ray is still not ready, then they should wait. But what other tricks can they have up their sleeves with 2k panels?

They could do a quad e-shift(1 pixel to the right, 1 pixel down, 1 pixel left).....if the panels were fast enough, end result being true 4K with 2K panels.
post #3014 of 3981
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

The HDMI issue can be corrected with a firmware update. The projectors do not have to be opened up for any change needing to be made. This information came to me through an email I received from JVC.

Mike, have you received any information from JVC about a rough time frame we are looking at for the firmware upgrade? Also have you had any contact with JVC regarding  R Harkness'  identified issue of the focus menu in these projectors, where E-shift is automatically turned on when you engage the focusing with the focus pattern - exactly the opposite of what you need it to do to properly focus the projector?

post #3015 of 3981
Quote:
Originally Posted by PJ2014 View Post

Mike, have you received any information from JVC about a rough time frame we are looking at for the firmware upgrade? Also have you had any contact with JVC regarding  R Harkness'  identified issue of the focus menu in these projectors, where E-shift is automatically turned on when you engage the focusing with the focus pattern - exactly the opposite of what you need it to do to properly focus the projector?

No time frame given yet. The other issue has been brought to their attention.
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post #3016 of 3981
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

How well does the Sony 600 resolve pixel focus and MTF compared to a JVC?

Agree that that is the correct question!....I do feel the lens quality required for 4K is greatly over blown, specially when considering that 4K projection would NOT require the same quality of lens as 4K still camera would.

Additionally, what true resolution would 4K source material have, sure that canvas(the panel/chip) will be 4K, but the image laid upon the canvas?.....how close to 4K of resolvable data will it really contain?
post #3017 of 3981
He already said he didn't. He is out with his son tonight. I am sure he will respond later tonight. JVC will want to thoroughly test any fix before its released. Guessing, I would say the JVC community of users should expect a fix to be released with a couple of weeks.
post #3018 of 3981
Quote:
Originally Posted by Highjinx View Post

Agree that that is the correct question!....I do feel the lens quality required for 4K is greatly over blown, specially when considering that 4K projection would NOT require the same quality of lens as 4K still camera would.

Yea. 4K in is nothing for a still camera in. Still cameras can be 40 MP. Much more expensive and difficult for a 4K out projection lens. Not overblown but think what you want. You are allowed to be wrong. smile.gif
post #3019 of 3981
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Yea. 4K in is nothing for a still camera in. Still cameras can be 40 MP. Much more expensive and difficult for a 4K out projection lens. Not overblown but think what you want. You are allowed to be wrong. smile.gif

smile.gif
post #3020 of 3981
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View PostThe JVC's use a 17 element all glass lens. The amazing thing, is the entry level JVC gets this lens.

YES, That is why I am a JVC customer I have owned two JVC projectors just waiting for their 4K CEDIA 2014 I hope :)

post #3021 of 3981
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View PostI agree. It is not definite that JVC will even have a 4K projector next year. I have asked a couple of times and have not gotten a yes answer.

They won't say anything otherwise people would just wait and their new line would not be selling!  I would be astonished if they don't offer a native 4K at CEDIA 2014?

post #3022 of 3981
Quote:
Originally Posted by mntwister View Post

I am also having a problem with the 2D to 3D conversion, which isn't discussed much here, but if I try to change any setting on that menu, it freezes the menus and I can't even turn the projector off and nothing on the remote works. Can anyone else try it and see if they have this problem? It either freezes or started going up and down the list highlighting each selection and keeps doing that over and over.

Sounds like they rushed the product a bit! QA & QC is not what it used to be! rolleyes.gif
post #3023 of 3981
Rather than respond to a bunch of posts, I will just ramble a bit.

JVC by using the same lens on each of its models achieves significant economies of scale. Years ago, there lens wouldn't focus the three primary colors at the same time. They listened and fixed it with a better lens. They switched from a Japanese lens supplier to a chines and got a better lens for less money.

There is no reason to think it is adequate for 4K because it is used to flash 1080p images to get 4K e-shift. And it would mean they are paying too much if it is indeed a 4K capable lens.

One thing that can be said, It is not a highly transmissive lens size why. The JVC projectors are in the 1000 lumens class and not 1700 or 200 lumens class wise. For high light power you need wide lenses and going a little bit up in diameter costs a lot. Going down one F stop can increase the lens cost by a factor of 10. Using ED elements raises the cost too. In the lens business its all about performance and performance costs.

Kris. I was comparing the construction elements in the 600ES lens vs the 1000ES lens. The performance drop off and how is quite predictable.

I was not dumping on the JVC lens. I know it to be far superior to the lens on the Sony 50/55. Its much better.
post #3024 of 3981
Quote:
Originally Posted by mntwister View Post

I am also having a problem with the 2D to 3D conversion, which isn't discussed much here, but if I try to change any setting on that menu, it freezes the menus and I can't even turn the projector off and nothing on the remote works. Can anyone else try it and see if they have this problem? It either freezes or started going up and down the list highlighting each selection and keeps doing that over and over.

What!??? eek.gifeek.gifeek.gifeek.gif

Did you really have to pull the plug on it running?! Let us know who else is willing to try this (F that!… sorry!).

In terms of 3D mode… yes I reported that last week (the 3D IR flooding seems to make menu cmds run away!)

Add another to the list for JVC Mike! rolleyes.gif
post #3025 of 3981
Quote:
Originally Posted by krichter1 View Post

So does that mean being you're seemingly watching these JVC threads so closely you are going to buy a not 4K PJ? wink.gif

I want a true 4K from JVC or SONY at down to earth prices, JVC lenses are all glass no plastic allowed, being a photographer I attach a lot of importance to the Glass!
post #3026 of 3981
And there is glass and there is glass. ED. And the size of the glass, and the polish and grinding and the design and how the elements are group. More glass elements are not necessarilt better bot the more ED elements the better.
post #3027 of 3981
Quote:
Originally Posted by krichter1 View Post

What!??? eek.gifeek.gifeek.gifeek.gif

Did you really have to pull the plug on it running?! Let us know who else is willing to try this (F that!… sorry!).

In terms of 3D mode… yes I reported that last week (the 3D IR flooding seems to make menu cmds run away!)

Add another to the list for JVC Mike! rolleyes.gif

Pardon? I missed that one.

What do you mean IR flooding?

The JVCs use RF now for 3D...so...????

(If this is another true issue with these projectors, I want to add it to a list for the UK guys too).
post #3028 of 3981
Quote:
Originally Posted by mntwister View Post

I am also having a problem with the 2D to 3D conversion, which isn't discussed much here, but if I try to change any setting on that menu, it freezes the menus and I can't even turn the projector off and nothing on the remote works. Can anyone else try it and see if they have this problem? It either freezes or started going up and down the list highlighting each selection and keeps doing that over and over.



Quote:
Originally Posted by krichter1 View Post

What!??? eek.gifeek.gifeek.gifeek.gif

Did you really have to pull the plug on it running?! Let us know who else is willing to try this (F that!… sorry!).

In terms of 3D mode… yes I reported that last week (the 3D IR flooding seems to make menu cmds run away!)

Add another to the list for JVC Mike! rolleyes.gif

It gets stuck when I turn on the 2D to 3D conversion. I can't do a single thing with the remote. I checked again tonight and if I keep pressing up and down several times 8-15 or so), then it stars auto scrolling (2d to 3d , parallex, ect) and I have to keep pressing it twenty times or so to stop it. I have yet to be able to get to the Parallex setting. It just won't go that far down.

I'd like to know if anyone else can try using the 2D to 3D conversion and if it works for them. After you have the 2d to 3d conversion on, can you use the parallex and other features on that particular 3D menu? I can't. The conversion does turn on but that is when everything gets stuck. As I said I can't get to Parallex, but I tried it while it had 2d to 3d conversion ON. I will try tomorrow to use a regular 3D Blu-ray and see if the 3D controls work then, but mine definately does not function properly with the 2d to 3d conversion.
post #3029 of 3981
Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

Pardon? I missed that one.

What do you mean IR flooding?

The JVCs use RF now for 3D...so...????

(If this is another true issue with these projectors, I want to add it to a list for the UK guys too).

You can still use the PKEM1-IR transmitter (that was a huge prereq for me since I own 12 sets of IR glasses for my theater eek.gif)
post #3030 of 3981
Quote:
Originally Posted by mntwister View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by mntwister View Post

I am also having a problem with the 2D to 3D conversion, which isn't discussed much here, but if I try to change any setting on that menu, it freezes the menus and I can't even turn the projector off and nothing on the remote works. Can anyone else try it and see if they have this problem? It either freezes or started going up and down the list highlighting each selection and keeps doing that over and over.

It gets stuck when I turn on the 2D to 3D conversion. I can't do a single thing with the remote. I checked again tonight and if I keep pressing up and down several times 8-15 or so), then it stars auto scrolling (2d to 3d , parallex, ect) and I have to keep pressing it twenty times or so to stop it. I have yet to be able to get to the Parallex setting. It just won't go that far down.

I'd like to know if anyone else can try using the 2D to 3D conversion and if it works for them. After you have the 2d to 3d conversion on, can you use the parallex and other features on that particular 3D menu? I can't. The conversion does turn on but that is when everything gets stuck. As I said I can't get to Parallex, but I tried it while it had 2d to 3d conversion ON. I will try tomorrow to use a regular 3D Blu-ray and see if the 3D controls work then, but mine definately does not function properly with the 2d to 3d conversion.

But are you confirming the definition of "stuck" is a live power pull because it's frozen? If so we'll take your word for it! eek.gif
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