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NEW RANGE JVC 2014 - Page 119

post #3541 of 3975
Do you really think the numbers are that accurate and the extrapolation valid?
post #3542 of 3975
JVC's numbers or Cine4home's?? Measuring on/off contrast and determining the onscreen black level is not that hard as long as you have a decent light meter. The question becomes how many digits do you go out from zero before it makes any difference in a specific viewing environment? I know with the 4910 in my room and a black out scene it was nearly impossible to tell there was a screen there anymore. I hear exaggerations on black all the time but this is the first time I've seen a digital projector get anywhere close to that black.
post #3543 of 3975
What are Cine4homes? I would fully trust his. My Sony's black reference level is not inky black by any means. But I will suffer that for all the other things it does. I just shut my eye lids for the rare all black screen. smile.gif
post #3544 of 3975
I am posting this on the 4910 thread and also here, in case anyone here has experienced this problem:

I did the firmware update yesterday and everything went okay. I watched several movies last night. Today I went to watch something, and I get nothing but a blue screen. The 4910 gets its signal from my Denon receiver. So I tried switching HDMI cables. Nothing but blue screen. I then took the HDMI cable and hooked it directly into my Oppo 93 player-blue screen. Projector says "No input." Same with HDMI 2. I've never encountered this before, has anyone else? I am getting very frustrated.
post #3545 of 3975
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

Maximum Dynamic Contrast can only be measured with the aperture fully open/then fully closed. That’s the brightest it can get/followed by the darkest it can get. The RS57 and the RS6710 have higher specs. That’s a function of the better spec’d chips and the dual aperture light engine. With the 6710 having 150,000:1. If 1,300 lumens is the brightest and the Dynamic Contrast ratio is 1,500,000:1, then JVC is saying they could measure 1,300 lumens max. and approximately .000865 lumens fully closed. I think anyone who has seen these new projectors will agree that when they fade to black, they can get a whole lot darker than previous JVC models. At CEDIA, did not need a meter to be able to see that.

As we do over the years Mike we can beat (err… speculate), a subject to death and I have no doubt a lot of it here has a great deal of merit given the SME's providing it, which I have great deal of respect for but your point taken, this now being my third version owned and I just don't need a meter or software to tell me this thing is a whole lot better than what I had before (and Oh Yeah… the fade to blacks on this thing are really... well… black!) biggrin.gif

My point is… this is the first JVC I've owned where the PQ far supersedes the documented/obvious flaws (HDMI issue now behind us… I think!), now I put on a movie with the full intent of analyzing it and I end up just enjoying the movie… go figure. wink.gif
post #3546 of 3975
Has anyone measured the lumens in 3d?
post #3547 of 3975
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

JVC's numbers or Cine4home's?? Measuring on/off contrast and determining the onscreen black level is not that hard as long as you have a decent light meter. The question becomes how many digits do you go out from zero before it makes any difference in a specific viewing environment? I know with the 4910 in my room and a black out scene it was nearly impossible to tell there was a screen there anymore. I hear exaggerations on black all the time but this is the first time I've seen a digital projector get anywhere close to that black.

Agreed! .
post #3548 of 3975
Kevin. Glad you are enjoying it so much. You deserve the happiness and thanks for helping to make this forum so great.
post #3549 of 3975
Thanks buddy you too!! wink.gif

.
Quote:
Originally Posted by raullopez1234 View Post

Has anyone measured the lumens in 3d?

Wait what??

Like Mark said… meters usually can't go that loooow. tongue.gif
post #3550 of 3975
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

What are Cine4homes? I would fully trust his. My Sony's black reference level is not inky black by any means. But I will suffer that for all the other things it does. I just shut my eye lids for the rare all black screen. smile.gif

1/3 down the page are the contrast #'s.

http://www.microsofttranslator.com/BV.aspx?ref=IE8Activity&a=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cine4home.de%2Fknowhow%2FCine4Home_Edition_JVC_X500_X700%2FJVC_DLA_X500_X700_C4HEd.htm

my RS57 #'s from the T10 are nearly identical to the X700 data.

btw, are you surrrrreee you've seen every version of the fifth element? cool.gif
post #3551 of 3975
Not completely. In the FP CRT days we use to evaluate certain frames etc. I think it took me 3 years before I decided to watch the whole thing.

BTW In another thread, I saw your making it black efforts. Wow. What a change from the time I was at your house. What an improvement. I hope it was me that pushed you into doing it.
post #3552 of 3975
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

1/3 down the page are the contrast #'s.

http://www.microsofttranslator.com/BV.aspx?ref=IE8Activity&a=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cine4home.de%2Fknowhow%2FCine4Home_Edition_JVC_X500_X700%2FJVC_DLA_X500_X700_C4HEd.htm

my RS57 #'s from the T10 are nearly identical to the X700 data.

btw, are you surrrrreee you've seen every version of the fifth element? cool.gif

Damn I didn't know there was another version out (one of my favs!).

Is this the one ur talking about (any good IYO)??

post #3553 of 3975
The Gaumont release is my personal favorite.
post #3554 of 3975
Better than the Sony Remstr'd release w/ AVC encoding Dolby True HD (PQ better?)?
post #3555 of 3975
Quote:
Originally Posted by krichter1 View Post

... I settled on -7 because after many different reference movie tests it was seemingly the best compromise for obvious blooming/crushing whilst keeping a decent (acceptable), FtL reading; just over 11.

How much brightness does it cost to go to -7/how many Ft-L is it with the iris wide open?
Edited by noah katz - 1/20/14 at 10:49pm
post #3556 of 3975
What exactly is that edition? I don't really care, I just can't watch that film any more. At this point, I would need an alternative ending.
post #3557 of 3975
i was kidding but if you're curious this thread has some visual comparisons. it's the same movie but it appears quite different than the other copies we've seen.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1265121/the-fifth-element-sony-remaster-vs-gaumont-remaster-comparison

yes a + influence on the blackout, carpet and black velvet curtains are next
post #3558 of 3975
Quote:
Originally Posted by krichter1 View Post

Funny you happen to pull that clamp setting out of your ars Jon! wink.giftongue.gif

After a lot of testing… fiddling etc… I have found that same sweet spot of -7 (from last weeks owners post BTW). wink.gif

All the credit goes to Darin, having given me those scenes in the International (Armin's interview). After going between -3/-5/-10/-15 in both Auto1 & Auto2 I settled on -7 because after many different reference movie tests it was seemingly the best compromise for obvious blooming/crushing whilst keeping a decent (acceptable), FtL reading; just over 11.

And or whatever reason in my particular setup (or gear… all set for 4:2:2 in the chain), I keep going back to Enhanced video level because STD seems to crush blacks just a smidge with DI-2 on. It's certainly different than previous years but -14/+9 seems to be as close as my eyes can detect no flashing on 16. Someone had made mention the other night about watching Pacific Rim for great contrasty scenes. I've only seen it in the theater in 3D (which I thought looked fantastic), so I was curious how it looked in 2D w/ DI. Wow!! is all I can say… great inky blacks, shade detail and the color just POPd! biggrin.gif

I really have no desire to rush and calibrate this machine… it just looks excellent as is! smile.gif

Haha...well I wasn't think of minimising DI artifacts but just choosing a number about half way along the scale so that the internal aperture is closed therefore benefitting the contrast for a specific single moment in time as well as the dynamic contrast as well. It is no surprise to me that -7 is a good number overall for you for other reasons like artefact control for the DI algorithm. Out of interest, what ftL do you read at -7 peak white? I am curious whether you are still running for a 12-14ftL target or whether you have become a brightness junkie as a result of the DI? smile.gif
post #3559 of 3975
Quote:
Originally Posted by krichter1 View Post

Better than the Sony Remstr'd release w/ AVC encoding Dolby True HD (PQ better?)?

The Gaumont release is contrast boosted, blowing out whites and making color more neon. The Sony release is more natural. There are a lot of opinions about these releases:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1265121/the-fifth-element-sony-remaster-vs-gaumont-remaster-comparison
post #3560 of 3975
Thread Starter 
post #3561 of 3975
Quote:
Originally Posted by mntwister View Post

I am posting this on the 4910 thread and also here, in case anyone here has experienced this problem:

I did the firmware update yesterday and everything went okay. I watched several movies last night. Today I went to watch something, and I get nothing but a blue screen. The 4910 gets its signal from my Denon receiver. So I tried switching HDMI cables. Nothing but blue screen. I then took the HDMI cable and hooked it directly into my Oppo 93 player-blue screen. Projector says "No input." Same with HDMI 2. I've never encountered this before, has anyone else? I am getting very frustrated.

Try re-booting your AVR by power cycling with the power cord. I don't use Denon these days, but see this with Onkyos a lot...especially the newest generation (929) seems handshake senstive. I'm in the habbit now of using a power management device that has switched outlets so that I can put the AVR on one...so that I can easily power cycle the AVR when this happens. Sucks.

If problem remains, you'll know it's probably not getting hung up in the AVR for some reason.
post #3562 of 3975

And it seems a 4K projector is better at displaying 4k than a 1080p one ! Shock ! Now is that worth double price...

post #3563 of 3975
Thread Starter 
post #3564 of 3975

Thank you!

That's what I would expect, given the theory, and the previous observations in practice, concerning both those projectors with 4K sources.

But what stuck out for me was the colors on the Sony images. The color is significantly richer, and more varied, which I really like. Is that due to the 4K source: that it contains more color information that the
Sony's HDMI input can pass and the projector can translate?

Or does that represent a general difference between the two projectors: that the Sony produces richer colour even with Blu-Ray?
post #3565 of 3975
Quote:
Originally Posted by krichter1 View Post

Thanks buddy you too!! wink.gif

.
Wait what??

Like Mark said… meters usually can't go that loooow. tongue.gif

So it is either the carrot or the stick. When talking about the black levels it was the carrot. Talking about 3D brightness got the stick. smile.gif
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post #3566 of 3975
You guys are using the wrong vegetable. Please be more careful and use a black fruit or vegetable and not an orange one like a carrot. We are talking blacks here. Of the choices listed below, different ones could be used for the various JVC models as the on/off increases as the model numbers increase in value


Here is a suggested list of more appropriate choices

Blackberries
Dates
Mushrooms
Truffles
Black currents
Black grapes
Black olives
Black plums
post #3567 of 3975
Thread Starter 
Hi,

about increase on contrast and brightness, here there are a file with measures by Cine4Home from the HD1 to the X 700 (it's in "french", but IMHO, it's easy to understand) :


RcapmesuresC4Hau20.1.2014.xls 55k .xls file
post #3568 of 3975
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

1/3 down the page are the contrast #'s.

http://www.microsofttranslator.com/BV.aspx?ref=IE8Activity&a=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cine4home.de%2Fknowhow%2FCine4Home_Edition_JVC_X500_X700%2FJVC_DLA_X500_X700_C4HEd.htm

my RS57 #'s from the T10 are nearly identical to the X700 data.

btw, are you surrrrreee you've seen every version of the fifth element? cool.gif

If going by contrast from cine4home measurements, it hard to justify the extra cost going from mid to open with the iris. As stated before, the DI should be similar in both. Basically, unless you have a HP screen, I think the RS49/X500 is by far the better value enough if you can easily afford the X700/RS57.

Open iris is 26,000:1 compared to 31,000:1 and mid iris is 35,000:1 to 41,000:1. Hard to see that difference
post #3569 of 3975
Quote:
Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post

If going by contrast from cine4home measurements, it hard to justify the extra cost going from mid to open with the iris. As stated before, the DI should be similar in both. Basically, unless you have a HP screen, I think the RS49/X500 is by far the better value enough if you can easily afford the X700/RS57.

Open iris is 26,000:1 compared to 31,000:1 and mid iris is 35,000:1 to 41,000:1. Hard to see that difference

When I set my X500 to 7 on the iris, I can clearly see a difference, certainly on the black bars in a movie. They nearly disappear on my 1 gain screen.
post #3570 of 3975
Quote:
Originally Posted by cardoski View Post

When I set my X500 to 7 on the iris, I can clearly see a difference, certainly on the black bars in a movie. They nearly disappear on my 1 gain screen.

To clarify-Are you setting the manual iris number to 7 and then switching it to auto 2?
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