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NEW RANGE JVC 2014 - Page 24

post #691 of 4022
Kevin. How bout them White Sox this year? I will be watching the Red Sox play in the American league semi finals on Friday night. You do remember October baseball in Chi Town? Will you be watching the 5th Element again Friday night? I do concede da Bears are doing fine given one misstep.. However, the Patriots have not had a misstep yet.
post #692 of 4022
Jut rub it in why don't ya but then again I deserve that one after saying I liked your cute cap! biggrin.gif When the Pats play someone let me know (like if they beat the Bengals this week on the road, then yes I agree they're for real!) We're out of it in Chitown but we do love our playoff baseball Mark... Go Sox (even though they're not WHITE!)! wink.gif

Bearssssss. In homage of Jay's start this year I've been drinking a lot of Cutty! biggrin.gif

So... why do the post Cedia reviews seem to be sooo sparse this year. Other than Todd and a couple others we got nothin' this year to talk about. Come on guys... put some MEAT in that bone will ya!!
Edited by krichter1 - 10/3/13 at 5:29pm
post #693 of 4022
And I had to kick Tod hard in the rear via the internet to get him even to go. Marky said Try it! You 'll like it. And he ate the whole bowl!
post #694 of 4022
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

And I had to kick Tod hard in the rear via the internet to get him even to go. Marky said Try it! You 'll like it. And he ate the whole bowl!

biggrin.gif Quite literally if you had seen me eat at the AVS party!

There was no doubt I would like it Mark. My concern was self control which I am good at with most things, but HT gear and buffets it all goes to hell. Now that I have seen eshift and especially that 4k Sony, I am trying my hardest not to call up Mike and place an order for something! 4k is definitely out of my reach right now, but a nice eshift machine might be just the ticket for 2-3 years until an affordable 4k comes around. Then again, my 45 still looks damn good to my eyes even if not as good as an eshift machine. Decisions, decisions.......either way, thanks for the motivation........I think..........tongue.gif

Kevin, have you decided one way or the other yet? smile.gif
post #695 of 4022
Not enough meat on that bone yet but I am calling Mike tomorrow so who knows! Daddy shouldn't even be looking to eat (per Mommy... my teeth ain't ready yet)! biggrin.gif

Now by all means let's get back to the screen talk! tongue.gif
Edited by krichter1 - 10/3/13 at 9:08pm
post #696 of 4022
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qualunquemente View Post

[quote name="timescape7" url="/t/1486011/new-range-jvc-2014/660#post_23797903"]Which will present better picture quality? 4K 60p 4:2:0 4k 30p 4:2:2 ?[/quote]The first one for sure. With 4:2:0 you'r loosing 75% color information while with 4:2:2 you'r loosing "only" 50% but seems like our eyes can't catch that difference but can perfectly notice the difference between 30 and 60 progressive frames per second wink.gif


I thought I heard Joe Kane implied that to have 4k 30p 4:2:2 is better than 60p 4:2:0... interviewed by Scott Wilkerson?
post #697 of 4022
You want to use the framerate of the original source. Only after that you care about chroma subsampling. For movies you want neither 30p nor 60p, but you want 24p, unless we're talking about the Hobbit, then you want 48p. For native video content (sports etc) you want 60p. You don't ever want 30p. The difference between 30p and 60p for sports is quite big. The difference between 4:2:0 and 4:2:2 is very small, except maybe for computer games...
post #698 of 4022
Its actually not small percentage wise, being 25% better, but to our eyes (human eyes) there would be little visible difference.
Edited by mark haflich - 10/4/13 at 6:33am
post #699 of 4022
Quote:
Originally Posted by timescape7 View Post

I thought I heard Joe Kane implied that to have 4k 30p 4:2:2 is better than 60p 4:2:0... interviewed by Scott Wilkerson?

Joe is very much like a politician speaking to specific audiences. He tend to think he is smarter than his audience and tends dumb things down for them at the cost of total accuracy in order to reinforce his point. He would never start out with frame rate being the capture rate and chroma subsampling being a data storage or transmission parameter and therefor no really related to one another. But he will quickly combine them to say something I would prefer a higher chroma subsampling than a higher capture rate as if they are trade offs,
post #700 of 4022
Its kind of immaterial because what matters IS the material! What does the Sony 4K media player output? What will BD 4K output? Then its a question of having a display that matches it. We don't really have a choice of framerate vs chroma subsampling since we are at the mercy of what we are given from the source!
post #701 of 4022
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonStatt View Post

Its kind of immaterial because what matters IS the material! What does the Sony 4K media player output? What will BD 4K output? Then its a question of having a display that matches it. We don't really have a choice of framerate vs chroma subsampling since we are at the mercy of what we are given from the source!

Yes and no. I fully agree that we don't have a choice about framerate. But things like chroma subsampling and bitdepth are less "dramatic". E.g. if the BD 4K is 12bit 4:4:4, but the Sony can only accept 8bit 4:2:0, then that sounds dramatic. And it can be, but it depends on what the BD 4K players are capable of doing. With normal film/video material, the human eye is hard pressed to see a difference between 4:4:4 and 4:2:0. (The situation is different with computer graphics/games). And 12bit can be nicely dithered down to 8bit. But the big question is whether BD 4K players will be able to dither or not. I don't think any current BD/DVD player dithers. So we'll have to wait and see on that. As long as BD 4K players dither down properly, I personally wouldn't see much of a problem with a limitation of the display to 8bit 4:2:0. However, I somehow doubt that BD 4K players will be able to dither. And then suddenly having the display being limited to 8bit sucks big time. But then, it only sucks for 60p, not for 24p. So where does that leave us standing? I don't know...
post #702 of 4022
Okay, so I still have questions...

JVC says that the x500/700/900 accepts 4k 60p 8bit 4:2:0, what is it capable of accepting at 24p?

What bit depth are the JVC panels capable of displaying?

If the current HDMI standard only supports up to 4k 24p 8bit 4:2:0 doesn't this imply that JVC's solution is atleast part way up to the hdmi 2.0 4k standard?
post #703 of 4022
Quote:
If the current HDMI standard only supports up to 4k 24p 8bit 4:2:0 doesn't this imply that JVC's solution is atleast part way up to the hdmi 2.0 4k standard?

I'd have to say yes. The RS4910 and 6710 displayed the 4K fed from the Redray player just fine, and a fine picture it was.
post #704 of 4022
Quote:
Originally Posted by docevil View Post


If the current HDMI standard only supports up to 4k 24p 8bit 4:2:0 doesn't this imply that JVC's solution is atleast part way up to the hdmi 2.0 4k standard?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post

I'd have to say yes. The RS4910 and 6710 displayed the 4K fed from the Redray player just fine, and a fine picture it was.
IF UHD Bluray uses HDCP 2.2 then it won't matter if JVC's solution partly meets HDMI 2.0 because JVC did not implement HDCP 2.2.
post #705 of 4022
Once again, by the time production time comes maybe they will have put it in. It really makes little sense not to if they could easily do it. I don't know hoe easy it would be but they already have the earlier HDCP.
Edited by mark haflich - 10/4/13 at 3:11pm
post #706 of 4022
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geof View Post

Maybe this bears repeating, or maybe not but I will anyway.

There is nothing wrong with buying a new JVC projector.....I'm sure they're great....but, at this point in time one should not expect these projectors to work with UHD Blurays. That may eventually change but given what we know at the moment these new JVCs do not appear to be compatible with UHD Bluray.

Bears repeating? As NOAH points out below that is the correct usage and I have revised my erroneous post. Of course the Chitown Bears have never repeated their Superbown win.
Edited by mark haflich - 10/4/13 at 3:41pm
post #707 of 4022
actually "bears repeating" is the correct usage
post #708 of 4022
I preordered a RS57 today and it will be interesting to hear how the Oppo 103D performs upscaling 1080p blurays to 4K with the new JVC's vs. just feeding 1080p from an older Oppo and letting the new JVC's do the upscaling. I currently have an Oppo BDP-93 and use a Darbee so look forward to those comparisons once the new JVC's ship.

Mike
post #709 of 4022
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbw23air View Post

I preordered a RS57 today and it will be interesting to hear how the Oppo 103D performs upscaling 1080p blurays to 4K with the new JVC's vs. just feeding 1080p from an older Oppo and letting the new JVC's do the upscaling. I currently have an Oppo BDP-93 and use a Darbee so look forward to those comparisons once the new JVC's ship.

Mike

Please tell us what you think once you have it up and running.

What projector do you own now?

And do you know when you are going to receive the RS57?
post #710 of 4022
Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

Please tell us what you think once you have it up and running.

What projector do you own now?

And do you know when you are going to receive the RS57?

Currently have the RS40. I'm hoping to get end of Nov. - early Dec. Will be using with a Lumagen XD, Darbee, and Oppo 93 for blu-ray viewing. Very excited about the upgrade.

Mike
post #711 of 4022
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbw23air View Post

I preordered a RS57 today and it will be interesting to hear how the Oppo 103D performs upscaling 1080p blurays to 4K with the new JVC's vs. just feeding 1080p from an older Oppo and letting the new JVC's do the upscaling. I currently have an Oppo BDP-93 and use a Darbee so look forward to those comparisons once the new JVC's ship.

Mike

My 103D shipped out today. I wonder how eshift being fed 1080p and eshift being fed the oppo's 4K upscaling will look. Joerod likes the Oppo upscaling better than the 1000ES, so it should be very interesting.
post #712 of 4022
Quote:
Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post

My 103D shipped out today. I wonder how eshift being fed 1080p and eshift being fed the oppo's 4K upscaling will look. Joerod likes the Oppo upscaling better than the 1000ES, so it should be very interesting.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. I really didn't want to have to buy a new blu ray player. wink.gif
post #713 of 4022
I sold my Oppo and Darbee in a couple of hours to basically pay for the 103D
post #714 of 4022
Quote:
Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post

My 103D shipped out today. I wonder how eshift being fed 1080p and eshift being fed the oppo's 4K upscaling will look. Joerod likes the Oppo upscaling better than the 1000ES, so it should be very interesting.

If you check out that thread again, You will find Joerods results are far from conclusive. Joe is under the impression that the Darbee in the 103D must be a better implementation of the Darbee, but Oppo says it is the same implementation.
Reply
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post #715 of 4022
He is saying the upscaling is better than the last Oppo. Also, it helps that the Darbee is built in and I don't need to have two for each input when I have two projectors. Well, I sold my Oppo and Darbee for almost the cost of the new Oppo, so I can judge for myself in less than a week
post #716 of 4022
You will lose the ability to use it on Cable TV or HTPC though, right?
post #717 of 4022
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

You will lose the ability to use it on Cable TV or HTPC though, right?

Why do you think that?
post #718 of 4022
It sounds like where the new Oppo might excel is in its scaling to 4k. So, if you are using it for blu-ray but just outputting 1080p@24 and there would be no scaling there doesn't sound like there is a benefit over Oppo 93+Darbee outputting the same 1080p@24. It could make cable/sat 1080i scaled to 1080p look better because of scaler in it. I will wait till new JVC owners get it to report how it works with sending the 2160p@24 signal.

Mike
post #719 of 4022
The first thing I noticed with the Oppo 103 was just what Joerod told me about it when I asked him. He said the VP in the blu ray player made his cable look much better. And he was right on with that. The new VRS is supposed to be a better upscaler. Can't wait to try it but I'm very curious how Mike's RS57 is going to look upscaled with the VRS in 2K and 4K.
post #720 of 4022
Quote:
Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post

The first thing I noticed with the Oppo 103 was just what Joerod told me about it when I asked him. He said the VP in the blu ray player made his cable look much better. And he was right on with that. The new VRS is supposed to be a better upscaler. Can't wait to try it but I'm very curious how Mike's RS57 is going to look upscaled with the VRS in 2K and 4K.

Yeah, by joerod's comments it sound like a worthwhile upgrade. Since I would like another Darbee to use with different display that might be reason enough for me to upgrade and hook my current Darbee up to other display. I'm anxious to hear about the new Oppo when you get it.

Mike
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