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TiVo Roamio: Records up to 6 shows simultaneously, 3TB storage, streams. - Page 2

post #31 of 679
Quote:
Originally Posted by grampy View Post



With six tuners you shouldn't need OnDemand, you should be able to schedule and record everything you want to watch

Just checked and my OnDemand offers more than just what's on my TiVo's schedule. But that's just me. All cable is local (c).

post #32 of 679
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTVChallenged View Post


OK ... this is just getting silly.

 

That is true.

post #33 of 679
If you look at the trends, Dish and Directv dont even build OTA tuners in anymore. These companies know exactly how many people are actually using it, and as much as I love recording OTA, were are a small portion of the pie.

Ill gladly take my 4 tuners and external HDD and record some OTA.
post #34 of 679
Even if the more expensive models had OTA tuners, they still don't have multiple RF inputs, so you couldn't record OTA and cable channels simultaneously, anyway.
post #35 of 679
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleron Ives View Post

Even if the more expensive models had OTA tuners, they still don't have multiple RF inputs, so you couldn't record OTA and cable channels simultaneously, anyway.

Presumably if they had engineered the box to do both OTA and cable, then it would have additional RF inputs.

I'm tempted to replace my Series 3 with the new base model and upgrade the hard drive. I've had lifetime on the S3 since I ported it over from the S1 box waaay back.

I wish they'd let us pay to migrate our lifetime subs from box to box like the old days.


Edit: As an aside, has Charter gotten any better at making cablecards work? My one attempt to do this with Charter years ago was a complete disaster. I knew what to do, but the tech wouldn't let me help. I watched him fail until he gave up.
post #36 of 679
Quote:
Originally Posted by brentsg View Post

As an aside, has Charter gotten any better at making cablecards work? My one attempt to do this with Charter years ago was a complete disaster. I knew what to do, but the tech wouldn't let me help. I watched him fail until he gave up.

I have Charter and have had 4 CableCards for about 3 years now. They've worked fine for me. Mine were installed before they let you do a self-install (which I believe they let you do now). Mine were originally installed in 3 Sony DHG's and a TV. When I got the three TiVo's about 18 months ago I simply moved 3 of the cards and kept on truckin' without even having to call Charter. When I recently added the 4th TiVo I moved the 4th card over with no problems.
post #37 of 679
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTVChallenged View Post

OK ... this is just getting silly.

1) Have any of you considered that TiVo probably knows exactly how many customers (historically) that are using both OTA and Cable with their boxes, and how many customers are using either one or the other exclusively? Have any of you considered that they just based their business decisions based solely on those numbers?

2) Even sillier is that most of the people complaining about this have already proven both their ample purchasing abilities *and* their desire to have multiple TiVos and perhaps even other DVRs running in their home - all networked together.

OTOH, I guess it might throw a monkey wrench into some folks plans to "surplus" their (lifetimed) Premiers (et al) on the ebay. wink.gif

Bottom line: I don't see any one forcing us to "upgrade" here, if the Romio doesn't suit, just pass on it ... I'm sure it won't affect TiVo significantly either way. smile.gif

PS: For my part, I'm barely using ~50% of the capability of my base model 2 tuner Premier as it is (in OTA only mode.) YMMV.

Then why even acknowledge there is a market for OTA by including it on any model? Why omit it from your flagship model? I'm not looking at it from an upgrade point so much as I was as the customer always on the fence that wanted to dump his POS cable DVR and just waiting for Tivo to deliver a product that actually met my needs. The point is a simple USB add on would have been a decent compromise. I will concede the OTA market certainly isn't nearly as large as the pay market, but it's there and it's growing as people cut the cord. It's hardly a silly observation.
post #38 of 679
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenJF3 View Post

Then why even acknowledge there is a market for OTA by including it on any model? Why omit it from your flagship model? I'm not looking at it from an upgrade point so much as I was as the customer always on the fence that wanted to dump his POS cable DVR and just waiting for Tivo to deliver a product that actually met my needs. The point is a simple USB add on would have been a decent compromise. I will concede the OTA market certainly isn't nearly as large as the pay market, but it's there and it's growing as people cut the cord. It's hardly a silly observation.

Actually it is not the customer that is cutting the cord as it is the cable company cutting the cord for them as they have gone delinquent. The standard for disconnection is being 60 days past due and the customer sent to collections. The system that Joe Kustra and I are in use that procedure. At the beginning of each month they send at all the contractors to do disconnects. This can last for a few days each month. I know of all the cut offs in my neighborhood and none of them put up a antenna after the disconnect. Usually the customer will go through the two sat companies and the cable company with in 9 months.
It has been an assumption that the cable/sat losses are the result of customers cutting the cord to save money but it is really from the inability of the customer to pay their monthly bill. The rental property owners are also getting hit hard as people rent a property and run up the utilities and then move to another place and start the cycle all over. It is not uncommon to see five or six dishes on homes as the installers will just put up another dish with each new renter.
post #39 of 679
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jed1 View Post


It has been an assumption that the cable/sat losses are the result of customers cutting the cord to save money but it is really from the inability of the customer to pay their monthly bill. The rental property owners are also getting hit hard as people rent a property and run up the utilities and then move to another place and start the cycle all over. It is not uncommon to see five or six dishes on homes as the installers will just put up another dish with each new renter.

Fur sure there are a lot of dishes over here. Here's a great bargain:

http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/238-240-W-4Th-St_Mt-Carmel_PA_17851_M40685-07420?row=1

post #40 of 679
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeKustra View Post

Fur sure there are a lot of dishes over here. Here's a great bargain:
http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/238-240-W-4Th-St_Mt-Carmel_PA_17851_M40685-07420?row=1

Those houses look very familiar. Sent you an email.
post #41 of 679
Quote:
Originally Posted by brentsg View Post

Presumably if they had engineered the box to do both OTA and cable, then it would have additional RF inputs.

The box that does still support OTA and cable has only one RF input, so that doesn't seem likely. Then again, maybe the dual RF inputs would be touted as a feature of the most expensive model that the users of the base model don't deserve to have.
post #42 of 679
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenJF3 View Post

Then why even acknowledge there is a market for OTA by including it on any model? Why omit it from your flagship model? .

In case you didn't catch it the first time, the subtext of my post is that for several reasons, we should probably be ecstatic that TiVo is still supporting the OTA market *at all* - in any form. smile.gif

There are multiple market forces working against supporting OTA here. Cable companies don't want it done. OTA broadcasters don't (really) want it done. And, most importantly, *most* cable based TiVo users probably don't really care either.

There are third world issues, there are first world issues, but this is more like a first world, 2%'er issue. wink.gif

To put it another way; what would it cost to buy and feed two of the base Romio units, setting one up for OTA and the other for Cable, vs. the cost and feeding of one of the "pro" models? Are six tuners better than eight? Again, YMMV.

Just don't delude yourself into thinking that you are part of a significant market share ...

PS: Another angle to look at is this: Assume it only costs another $20 to $40 per unit to enable simultaneous OTA and Cable tuning on the base unit. I'm sure *you* would be willing to pay the difference ... but for the other 95% of all of the potential Romio customers, it's likely to be a balk. I'm sure Tivo has people that have run all the potential supply/demand vs. cost economic models, which is surely how they decided on the final "feature content" of the individual models. It only appears to be random and arbitrary. wink.gif
Edited by HDTVChallenged - 8/21/13 at 10:37pm
post #43 of 679
For the record, I would pay an extra $100 for the basic Roamio if it had the ability to record digital on 3 tuners and OTA on one tuner.
post #44 of 679
Quote:
Originally Posted by Humbleman View Post

For the record, I would pay an extra $100 for the basic Roamio if it had the ability to record digital on 3 tuners and OTA on one tuner.

It could have been done as an add on for those that wanted it. That's my only point. Yes, there is no significant market share, but there is a market. The point is moot for me now as I wouldn't get one without OTA support.
post #45 of 679
It is the price of the guide that bothers me.
If you have cable there are hundreds of channels - Over the air there is 5 to 20 but the price is the same
post #46 of 679

Walmart just removed the discount for the two tuner Premiere. Seems somebody wants cable and OTA at the same time.

post #47 of 679
Hi Ya All,
Well I just bit the bullet and ordered a Roamio OTA model. I hope the tuner is better than the Premiere. It shipped hours after order. It will arrive Monday.
The salesperson said the processor is fast. I was disappointed in the Premiere boot up time. I'm keeping both Tivo's to have the ability to record 6 channels.


SS-Stingray
post #48 of 679
When the cable company and the local channel are in a pissing match over fees and pull the signal from the air, I just record the local channel using my existing tuners. It is great and it gives me about 10 additional channels in HD that my cable provider does not. I have a Tivo HD XL with an outside antenna to every TV in the house. I just used an old satellite distribution center for the cables to get TV.
post #49 of 679
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeKustra View Post

Walmart just removed the discount for the two tuner Premiere. Seems somebody wants cable and OTA at the same time.

That or TiVo wants them to start pushing Romios instead. wink.gif
post #50 of 679
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTVChallenged View Post


That or TiVo wants them to start pushing Romios instead. wink.gif

 

Good point. The demo that buys there does seem to live with two rules: $200 max and a big discount. All three Roamio models are on the web site - no discount yet. The $200 Roamio is out of stock now.

post #51 of 679
Quote:
Originally Posted by bernieoc View Post

It is the price of the guide that bothers me.
If you have cable there are hundreds of channels - Over the air there is 5 to 20 but the price is the same
What you pay is not simply for the guide. That fee also pays for support and the development efforts that keep a steady stream of firmware updates coming along.
post #52 of 679
Quote:
Originally Posted by bernieoc View Post

It is the price of the guide that bothers me.
If you have cable there are hundreds of channels - Over the air there is 5 to 20 but the price is the same

There is a site, silicondust.com, that is fairly accurate. It shows:

Roanoke, VA - 20 OTA and 28 Cox cable clear QAM

Venice, CA - 157 OTA and 89 TWC clear QAM

 

I do get 200 HD channels on my Premiere for a $90/month cable bill that includes a cable card. All cable is local (c). OTA not so much.

post #53 of 679
On the launch date of the new Roamios, TiVo also made changes to their user policy which one of the changes is to use binding arbitration instead of class action lawsuits for future disputes.
http://www.tivo.com/legal
This coupled with a post from TCF:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9778328#post9778328
I am wondering if TiVo is going to make a drastic policy change to older boxes that have lifetime service or possibly the elimination of older units from the S3 and back. TiVo mentions about compatibility with HD programming. I highlighted some key points.
Quote:
We offer a product lifetime subscription option to the TiVo service that commits us to provide the TiVo service for as long as the DVR is in service. We receive product lifetime subscription fees for the TiVo service in advance and amortize these fees as subscription revenue over 66 months for product lifetime subscriptions which is our current estimate of the service life of the DVR. If these product lifetime subscriptions use the DVR for longer than anticipated, we will incur costs such as telecommunications and customer support costs without a corresponding subscription revenue stream and therefore will be required to fund ongoing costs of service from other sources, such as advertising revenue. Additionally, if these product lifetime subscriptions use the DVR for longer than the period in which we recognize revenue, our average revenue per subscription (“ARPU”) for our TiVo-Owned subscriptions will be negatively impacted as we continue to count these customers as subscriptions without corresponding subscription revenue thus lowering our average revenues across our TiVo-Owned subscription base. As of January 31, 2013, we had approximately 194,000 product lifetime subscriptions that had exceeded the 66 month period we use to recognize product lifetime subscription revenues and had made contact with the TiVo service within the prior six-month period. We will continue to monitor the useful life of a TiVo-enabled DVR and the impact of higher churn, increased competition, and compatibility of our existing TiVo units with high-definition programming. Future results will allow us to determine if our useful life is shorter or longer than currently estimated, in which case we may revise the estimated life and we would recognize revenues from this source over a shorter or longer period.

There is a 30 day window if you want to opt out of arbitration. Here is how to opt out and what can happen if you do:
Quote:
Opt-out: You may opt-out of this dispute resolution provision only by notifying TiVo within 30 days of the date that it first applies to you. You must do so by writing to TiVo Inc., 2160 Gold Street, San Jose, CA 95002, attn.: Arbitration Opt-Out, and including your name, address, account number (if you have one), and a clear statement that you do not wish to resolve disputes with TiVo through arbitration.

Judicial forum: If (1) you opt-out of this dispute resolution provision, or (2) an arbitrator or court finds the class action waiver in this section to be invalid or unenforceable, then you agree to resolve any dispute you have with TiVo exclusively in a state or federal court located in Santa Clara County, California, and to submit to the personal jurisdiction of such courts for the purpose of litigating such dispute. We each waive any right to a jury trial in any such dispute.

Time limit for disputes: We each agree (regardless of any statute or law to the contrary) that any dispute must be filed within 1 year after such dispute arose or else will be forever barred.

The process for dispute resolution is here under legal terms:
http://www.tivo.com/legal/terms
post #54 of 679
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jed1 View Post

On the launch date of the new Roamios, TiVo also made changes to their user policy which one of the changes is to use binding arbitration instead of class action lawsuits for future disputes.
http://www.tivo.com/legal
This coupled with a post from TCF:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9778328#post9778328
I am wondering if TiVo is going to make a drastic policy change to older boxes that have lifetime service or possibly the elimination of older units from the S3 and back. TiVo mentions about compatibility with HD programming. I highlighted some key points.
There is a 30 day window if you want to opt out of arbitration. Here is how to opt out and what can happen if you do:
The process for dispute resolution is here under legal terms:
http://www.tivo.com/legal/terms

I was reading the small print on my GPS with "lifetime" updates. Seems that if I don't get an update within 24 months my GPS is considered "dead" and is not in service so no updates.

 

I wonder if both our posts will be sent to heaven or .... again?

post #55 of 679
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeKustra View Post

I was reading the small print on my GPS with "lifetime" updates. Seems that if I don't get an update within 24 months my GPS is considered "dead" and is not in service so no updates.

I wonder if both our posts will be sent to heaven or .... again?
I'm pretty sure my Garmin required me to update it's "lifetime" maps within 6 months or maybe a year or it would no longer have "lifetime" updates.
IMO that's crap, if I purchased a Garmin with "lifetime" maps why should it matter whether I ever update it, why do they care?? Oh and just to make sure I didn't forfeit my "lifetime" maps I updated it day 1 and haven't updated it since tongue.gif been over a year since then........I should probably try updating it again smile.gif
Oh I think I've had my Tivo ~ 4 years(48 months) so I guess Tivo still figures me as a paying customer......(they mentioned 66 months as the lose point) but when purchasing lifetime I believe I figured ~3 years was the break even point which I'm ahead of now.
post #56 of 679
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeKustra View Post

I was reading the small print on my GPS with "lifetime" updates. Seems that if I don't get an update within 24 months my GPS is considered "dead" and is not in service so no updates.

I wonder if both our posts will be sent to heaven or .... again?

Its more important today to read the fine print. With TiVo the age of receiving compensation from patent lawsuits is over and they now have to look forward on how to stay profitable so I am not surprised that they are analyzing user data to see how many old models that they are subsidizing. There maybe change in the lifetime subscriptions language going forward. Since the Series 3 and older models will not work with TiVo stream or Minis, do not have MPEG 4 decoding support, and the end of analog broadcasting, I can see them ending support altogether and forcing them owners to upgrade. They will also have no resale value as TiVo will not support them going forward. I wouldn't be surprised to see movement on this in the fall at the earliest.
post #57 of 679
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jed1 View Post

With TiVo the age of receiving compensation from patent lawsuits is over and they now have to look forward on how to stay profitable so I am not surprised that they are analyzing user data to see how many old models that they are subsidizing.

Doesn't TiVo usually post losses in its quarterly reports? If so, they need to figure out how to become profitable, rather than how to stay that way without income from patent litigation.
post #58 of 679
Just setup my new Roamio Pro.
I noticed that I can stream to my iPad from all 3 of my Tivos...2 Tivo Premiers and the new Roamio! I guess Roamio's stream server is making this possible. Sweet
post #59 of 679
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleron Ives View Post

The box that does still support OTA and cable has only one RF input, so that doesn't seem likely. Then again, maybe the dual RF inputs would be touted as a feature of the most expensive model that the users of the base model don't deserve to have.
Theres only one input because it does either OTA or cable, but can't do both at the same time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Humbleman View Post

When the cable company and the local channel are in a pissing match over fees and pull the signal from the air, I just record the local channel using my existing tuners. It is great and it gives me about 10 additional channels in HD that my cable provider does not. I have a Tivo HD XL with an outside antenna to every TV in the house. I just used an old satellite distribution center for the cables to get TV.
+1 exactly.
post #60 of 679
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRatPatrol View Post

Theres only one input because it does either OTA or cable, but can't do both at the same time.

We were speculating on how a theoretical dual RF input model might have been pitched. We know that there are no such models in reality.
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