or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Display Calibration › NEW LightSpace Home Cinema Light - Affordable 3D LUTs For The Enthusiast Calibrator
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

NEW LightSpace Home Cinema Light - Affordable 3D LUTs For The Enthusiast Calibrator

post #1 of 55
Thread Starter 
Light Illusion has released a new and inexpensive version of LightSpace, Home Cinema Light. With the exception of hardware and output format restrictions, HCL provides the same capabilities as the professional version of LightSpace. LightSpace Version Comparison Chart

HCL supports the X-Rite OEM i1 Display 3 colorimeter because nearly every enthusiast calibrator owns one. 3D LUT output formats are for the Entertainment Experience Commercial HDMI eeColor Processor and the Lumagen Radiance series of video processors.

3D LUTs provide external processing for video calibration. Display set up requires little more than adjusting black, white, and the grayscale white point. After that, the display is measured and the Look Up Table is produced within the software. Load the LUT into the processor, and enjoy (to the extent the display is capable) the same picture used in the production of video content. In other words, as the director intended.



Complete tutorials and other references coming soon in post #2.
post #2 of 55
Thread Starter 
Display Setup

1.Turn off all unnecessary display processing.
2. Set black level with the Brightness control.
3. Set the White Point and Gamma with the 2 point Grayscale controls.

Detail: http://www.lightillusion.com/display_calibration.html

Display Profiling

Profiling is measuring the display to provide the required information to LightSpace for LUT production.

http://www.lightillusion.com/profiling_manual.html

LUT Production

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1461363/ee-colorbox-lightspace-and-3d-lut-calibration#post_23034874

http://www.lightillusion.com/lightspace_manual.html#lut_manipulation

Loading LUTs Into The eeColor Processor

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1461363/ee-colorbox-lightspace-and-3d-lut-calibration#post_23034867

Custom On Screen Displays

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1461363/ee-colorbox-lightspace-and-3d-lut-calibration#post_23034870

Lumagen Radiance Procedures

coming soon

Miscellaneous

Light Illusion Forum: http://www.lightillusion.com/forums/
Edited by buzzard767 - 9/4/13 at 5:15am
post #3 of 55
To use the Proffesional ''defacto'' Cube Size of 17-Point Cube Profiling (4.913 Color Points), LightSpace has internal pattern generator using your HDMI Output of your Notebook (with proper setup). You can set the window size to whatever pixel Width+Height you want, and accurately center the window pattern.

The next alternative that will come soon, (available for free download), will be the Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration BluRay-Disk, with this disk you can able to use your actual Blu-Ray Player as a Pattern Source, with an automated 17-Point Cube Profiling of 4913 Color Points without user prompt during the whole process, exept the initial sync, you can see details about that to my link above.

This is the way I'm profing my KURO for the last 9 months already without any problem.

Calibrating like this, using your bluray player, you are profiling the whole video signal chain of your system, with more accurate resutls from any Pattern Generator of any Price, because you fixing inaccurancies of your player with that way, something that a Patttern Generator can't see.

Using my disk you will need only: LightSpace HC Light Software, eeColor, id3 oem.

This minimizes a lot the total cost for Really Profesional Results to your own Home Cinema System, with exact the same LUT accurancy as All These Studios/Colorists/Color Related Pro's are already using for almost from 2008 (When LightSpace Released), since LightSpace is used @ Professional Industry already all these years only for Large 3D Cube Profilings.

Here at Consumer World, 5-Point Cube Calibrations (125+21 Color Points with multiple meter reads per color point) introduced to us @ Summer of 2012), the Same time that LightSpace was used to calculate 4913 Color Points Profilings with only 1 meter read per color point from 2008.

Another altenative for Hardware External Pattern Generator are the Lumagen Radiance Series Processors, like Mini-3D.
Edited by ConnecTEDDD - 8/22/13 at 10:53am
post #4 of 55
One major advantage of LightSpace is the display profiling process, so each patch (= pattern) must be measured only 1 times. When done, you can go and make a target LUT based on that profiling. You can do this as many times as you want, and with whatever gamma, colourspace (601/709 ...) you prefer for your home cinema.

That's a big difference compared with many other calibration solutions, which are going to get an accurate display / video processor calibration by performing x-times of readings + readjustments on every single patch. For a 17^3 cube this needs many, many hours, especially when using a midrange meter. As for me speaking - a calibration run of a UHP based PJ who needs 3 and more hours makes absolutely no sense.

So this fact can be an important point to every owner of a high voltage UHP lamp projector (and others too). I'm calibrating my home cinema projectors now for many years - and that's my main conclusion: The less time an entire calibration process was running, the more accurate the result was, verified by final measurements, beacause of significant brightness and CCT driftings while running the "calibration", even if the unit has been ON for > 1 hour.

So it's a logical consequence:
Now, in days of affordable 3D colour management equipped devices, who want's to be calibrated in thousands of points to get accurate saturation, hue and brightness on each LUT point, it's not only important to have a solution for accurate results, it's also essential to get it done in a short time frame to reduce the impact of lamp fluctuations.
Edited by *Harry* - 9/4/13 at 12:59am
post #5 of 55
From what I've heard there are different versions of the i1 Display Pro / 3 available. E.g. those bought directly from Light Illusion, Spectracal or ChromaPure. I think those run under the "OEM" name. And then there are those from other retail sources, e.g. Amazon etc. Are all of those supported or only some? I think that's important to clarify. FWIW, I believe Calman and ChromaPure support both OEM and retail versions of the i1 Display Pro / 3.
post #6 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post

From what I've heard there are different versions of the i1 Display Pro / 3 available. E.g. those bought directly from Light Illusion, Spectracal or ChromaPure. I think those run under the "OEM" name. And then there are those from other retail sources, e.g. Amazon etc. Are all of those supported or only some? I think that's important to clarify. FWIW, I believe Calman and ChromaPure support both OEM and retail versions of the i1 Display Pro / 3.

CalMAN is supporting Both Version of i1Display (id3): OEM + Retail version, a long time now.

ChromaPure was supporting OEM and it started to support Retail Also before 1-2 months.

LightSpace / THX CineSpace HD I have used supports only the OEM version currently.
post #7 of 55
Hi Ted,

Is it possible to do meter profiling within the Lightspace CMS Light version please? I saw that probe matching is marked with "Yes - manual data input" in this chart. What does it mean if I´m owner of id3 ( field colorimeter ) and i1Pro2 ( reference meter ).
http://www.lightillusion.com/lightspace_options.html

thanks
Pluto
post #8 of 55
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plutotype View Post

Hi Ted,

Is it possible to do meter profiling within the Lightspace CMS Light version please? I saw that probe matching is marked with "Yes - manual data input" in this chart. What does it mean if I´m owner of id3 ( field colorimeter ) and i1Pro2 ( reference meter ).
http://www.lightillusion.com/lightspace_options.html

thanks
Pluto

It means that you must take your spectro measurements externally and enter them into HCL manually. A bit of a pain but accomplishes the mission.
post #9 of 55
Thanks, I have Chromapure Proffesional SW. I can capture the readings of the i1Pro2 there first. Then close Chromapure and start LSCMSL and profile the id3 using i1Pro2 values grabbed using Chromapure.
post #10 of 55
Exactly that way wink.gif
post #11 of 55
Thanks Ted.

In general, the Light version of Lightspace CMS Home Cinema opens the door to many proffesional calibrators as additional reference calibration solution. The thing is, as Calman and Chromapure support pattern generators like Accupel DVG-5000 or Quantum Data ( and calibrators use them for years ), it would be nice to see Light Illusion adding support for at least the Accupel DVG-5000.
post #12 of 55
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plutotype View Post

it would be nice to see Light Illusion adding support for at least the Accupel DVG-5000.

You are not the first to harbor that particular desire. wink.gif
post #13 of 55
If the i1pro was supported i would be all over this.
post #14 of 55
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by njfoses View Post

If the i1pro was supported i would be all over this.

Take your i1Pro measurements externally and plug them into HCL for a D3 profile creation.
post #15 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

Take your i1Pro measurements externally and plug them into HCL for a D3 profile creation.

That still requires me to purchase the D3. The i1pro is my only meter. I think this is a great move though by Light Illusion overall.
post #16 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by njfoses View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

Take your i1Pro measurements externally and plug them into HCL for a D3 profile creation.

That still requires me to purchase the D3. The i1pro is my only meter. I think this is a great move though by Light Illusion overall.

For Cube Profilings you will need a colorimeter. You will use your spectro for Meter Correction only before starting the profiling measurements.
post #17 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post

For Cube Profilings you will need a colorimeter. You will use your spectro for Meter Correction only before starting the profiling measurements.

Why do i "need" a colorimeter ? I could use just the i1pro if it was supported. Sure it wont be as fast as a D3, but it certainly would work.
post #18 of 55
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by njfoses View Post

Why do i "need" a colorimeter ? I could use just the i1pro if it was supported. Sure it wont be as fast as a D3, but it certainly would work.

Not for low end.
post #19 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

Not for low end.

It would be close enough for me.wink.gif
post #20 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by njfoses View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post

For Cube Profilings you will need a colorimeter. You will use your spectro for Meter Correction only before starting the profiling measurements.

Why do i "need" a colorimeter ? I could use just the i1pro if it was supported. Sure it wont be as fast as a D3, but it certainly would work.

i1PRO will provide inaccurate readings for all dark patches. Generally it returns untrusted chromaticity readings for Patches below 10 cd/m2.

Think only that for a 1D calibrated display with 120cd/m2 peak white, the:

Blue 100% Saturation + 100% Amplitude Patch has Luminance of around 8.7 cd/m2
Blue 100% Saturation + 75% Amplitude Patch has Luminance of around 4.6 cd/m2
Blue 100% Saturation + 50% Amplitude Patch has Luminance of around 1.9 cd/m2.

Now think all the 17-Steps Luminance Steps of Blue, All your blue shades will be off..... and add also all the other RGB Dark Shade Combinations with luminance of bellow 8-10cdm2 that will be off too.

From the Spectros I know, only PhotoReseach PR-670 (not all times/have to do with the display) or PR-680L can work as a standalone for a 17-Point Cube Profiling.

i1PRO requires periodicaly Dark Readings also, it can't stay stable over 5-8 hours of measuring 17-point profiling patches.

Every 10 Min. needs a new Dark Reading... by ChromaPure/CalMAN Software

Every 5 Min. needs a new Dark Reading... THX says...

Every 4 Min. needs a new Dark Reading.....I have found that it needs during some old tests to my display.
Edited by ConnecTEDDD - 8/25/13 at 4:46pm
post #21 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post

i1PRO will provide inaccurate readings for all dark patches. Generally it returns untrusted chromaticity readings for Patches below 10 cd/m2.

Think only that for a 1D calibrated display with 120cd/m2 peak white, the:

Blue 100% Saturation + 100% Amplitude Patch has Luminance of around 8.7 cd/m2
Blue 100% Saturation + 75% Amplitude Patch has Luminance of around 4.6 cd/m2
Blue 100% Saturation + 50% Amplitude Patch has Luminance of around 1.9 cd/m2.

Now think all the 17-Steps Luminance Steps of Blue, All your blue shades will be off..... and add also all the other RGB Dark Shade Combinations with luminance of bellow 8-10cdm2 that will be off too.

From the Spectros I know, only PhotoReseach PR-670 (not all times/have to do with the display) or PR-680L can work as a standalone for a 17-Point Cube Profiling.

i1PRO requires periodicaly Dark Readings also, it can't stay stable over 5-8 hours of measuring 17-point profiling patches.

I currently use Calman to perform manual calibrations with my i1pro. If i purchased HCL, the eecolor box and a D3 how would i profile the D3? What would i need to measure with my i1? I wonder how accurate the resulting calibration would be since my display is a bulb based dlp. In 5-8 hours im guessing my display would vary quite a bit.
post #22 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by njfoses View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post

i1PRO will provide inaccurate readings for all dark patches. Generally it returns untrusted chromaticity readings for Patches below 10 cd/m2.

Think only that for a 1D calibrated display with 120cd/m2 peak white, the:

Blue 100% Saturation + 100% Amplitude Patch has Luminance of around 8.7 cd/m2
Blue 100% Saturation + 75% Amplitude Patch has Luminance of around 4.6 cd/m2
Blue 100% Saturation + 50% Amplitude Patch has Luminance of around 1.9 cd/m2.

Now think all the 17-Steps Luminance Steps of Blue, All your blue shades will be off..... and add also all the other RGB Dark Shade Combinations with luminance of bellow 8-10cdm2 that will be off too.

From the Spectros I know, only PhotoReseach PR-670 (not all times/have to do with the display) or PR-680L can work as a standalone for a 17-Point Cube Profiling.

i1PRO requires periodicaly Dark Readings also, it can't stay stable over 5-8 hours of measuring 17-point profiling patches.

I currently use Calman to perform manual calibrations with my i1pro. If i purchased HCL, the eecolor box and a D3 how would i profile the D3? What would i need to measure with my i1? I wonder how accurate the resulting calibration would be since my display is a bulb based dlp. In 5-8 hours im guessing my display would vary quite a bit.

You will use CalMAN to measure the WRGB Patches and then from inside LightSpace you will measure again the same patterns with your id3 OEM and after that you will need only to enter manually the xy numbers from your i1PRO WRGB Patches to create the offsets.

Using my upcoming Disk as a 'Automated' Pattern Generator You can choose the 10-Point Cube Hybrid - 21-Step Grayscale Combined with 1.000 Color Points (1.021 Color Points) that it will take from 1 hour....up to 1 hour at 30 minutes max... for the start....

More details here.
post #23 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post

You will use CalMAN to measure the WRGB Patches and then from inside LightSpace you will measure again the same patterns with your id3 OEM and after that you will need only to enter manually the xy numbers from your i1PRO WRGB Patches to create the offsets.

Using my upcoming Disk as a 'Automated' Pattern Generator You can choose the 10-Point Cube Hybrid - 21-Step Grayscale Combined with 1.000 Color Points (1.021 Color Points) that it will take from 1 hour....up to 1 hour at 30 minutes max... for the start....

More details here.

Thanks. Im still a bit confused but i understand the gist of it. If i decide to go this route i will ask additional questions then. Thanks again.
post #24 of 55

NEW LightSpace Home Cinema Light - Affordable 3D LUTs For The Enthusiast Cali...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by njfoses View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post

For Cube Profilings you will need a colorimeter. You will use your spectro for Meter Correction only before starting the profiling measurements.

Why do i "need" a colorimeter ? I could use just the i1pro if it was supported. Sure it wont be as fast as a D3, but it certainly would work.

i1PRO will provide inaccurate readings for all dark patches. Generally it returns untrusted chromaticity readings for Patches below 10 cd/m2.

Think only that for a 1D calibrated display with 120cd/m2 peak white, the:

Blue 100% Saturation + 100% Amplitude Patch has Luminance of around 8.7 cd/m2
Blue 100% Saturation + 75% Amplitude Patch has Luminance of around 4.6 cd/m2
Blue 100% Saturation + 50% Amplitude Patch has Luminance of around 1.9 cd/m2.

Now think all the 17-Steps Luminance Steps of Blue, All your blue shades will be off..... and add also all the other RGB Dark Shade Combinations with luminance of bellow 8-10cdm2 that will be off too.

From the Spectros I know, only PhotoReseach PR-670 (not all times/have to do with the display) or PR-680L can work as a standalone for a 17-Point Cube Profiling.

i1PRO requires periodicaly Dark Readings also, it can't stay stable over 5-8 hours of measuring 17-point profiling patches.

Every 10 Min. needs a new Dark Reading... by ChromaPure/CalMAN Software

Every 5 Min. needs a new Dark Reading... THX says...

Every 4 Min. needs a new Dark Reading.....I have found that it needs during some old tests to my display.

So how is it possible to do a meter profile using an i1PRO in the first place, for anything other than a high output LCD, if blue readings are always going to be wrong?
post #25 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by nw06 View Post

So how is it possible to do a meter profile using an i1PRO in the first place, for anything other than a high output LCD, if blue readings are always going to be wrong?

With an uncalibrated projector, Use a Higher Output (Contrast) Setting to run the profiling.

Without a reference spectro meter to compare, you never know how accurate is you Blue Reading with i1PRO1/2.

Sometimes it can read at 5-10 cdm/2 range, but there no rule with exact luminance level that it can't read well.

(It will return chromaticity untrusted readings down to 0.150cd/m2 if I remember well)

** The above cd/m2 numbers I have posted are showing the Luminance Level of Blue of a Calibrated Display... Uncalibrated displays usually have 15-30% or more Blue Luminance.
Edited by ConnecTEDDD - 8/26/13 at 2:53am
post #26 of 55
IMO, LightIllusion should now try to do two LS 4913point 3DLUT calibrations on the same display using K10-A profiled with i1pro2 spectro and with the id3pro profiled with the same spectro.
Would be the difference only in calibration time required? Or will be final result with id3pro too off?

I cant use the "dE " terminology here ( LS shows its math differently ), but lets say if K10-A gives 17x3 CUBE with dE 0.68 and id3pro 0.86 and these issues would be mainly in low end ( id3pro disadvantage), are we talking about a "problem"?smile.gif
post #27 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plutotype View Post

IMO, LightIllusion should now try to do two LS 4913point 3DLUT calibrations on the same display using K10-A profiled with i1pro2 spectro and with the id3pro profiled with the same spectro.
Would be the difference only in calibration time required? Or will be final result with id3pro too off?

I cant use the "dE " terminology here ( LS shows its math differently ), but lets say if K10-A gives 17x3 CUBE with dE 0.68 and id3pro 0.86 and these issues would be mainly in low end ( id3pro disadvantage), are we talking about a "problem"?smile.gif

it will be pretty much the same - I've done exactly that.

u need to enable Average LLH on the i1D3 while the K10-A doesn't need that (waste of time).

Difference will be time - 1.5 hours of Klein vs. 6 hours with i1D3 w/ Avg LLH on the same Plasma display with 1s extra delay for the patterns...

the only other minor difference will be low light accuracy, but with avg low light enabled the repeatability diff of the i1D3 vs. K10 is much less and on higher stimuli patches the readings are good with the i1D3 (Klein will be "better" due to better repeatability)...

I had outstanding results with the i1D3 + i1Pro + LS on my VT50...

K10 is better and faster... for a premium price.

Another thing - slightly off topic - u need to somewhat keep an eye out for the accuracy of your spectro, which is your reference... if your spectro is off, you're offsetting the colorimeter incorrectly...

Now how are you verifying the spectro accuracy w/o a superior meter, ergo another XX,000 $ spectro ?

that's a problem, but w/ LS - as Tedd mentioned above - u can manually create meter offsets and also manipulate existing ones very easily, so if you feel your reference is off in a primary you can make adjustments or just make that offset - for Green for example - neutral, so it keeps the i1D3 readings for green (in this example) but takes the R & B offsets from the i1Pro...

- M
post #28 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plutotype View Post

IMO, LightIllusion should now try to do two LS 4913point 3DLUT calibrations on the same display using K10-A profiled with i1pro2 spectro and with the id3pro profiled with the same spectro.
Would be the difference only in calibration time required? Or will be final result with id3pro too off?

I cant use the "dE " terminology here ( LS shows its math differently ), but lets say if K10-A gives 17x3 CUBE with dE 0.68 and id3pro 0.86 and these issues would be mainly in low end ( id3pro disadvantage), are we talking about a "problem"?smile.gif

Tom Parish (Colorist) took an interesting inteview with the developer/CEO of Klein Instruments K-10A (Luhr Jensen).
Klein K-10A - Luhr Jensen Interview

Time Element is most important for Plasmas/Projectors or generally for PRO's which are visiting customers and they can't stay there 6-8 hours.

From Projector side, the lamp temp is more stable the first hours of use.

From Plasma side, when you are using the plasma for a lot of hours, the panel is producing more heat to the attached circuits, so this enables the circuit protection systems which they lower down the total display peak output to protect the circuits from any possible damage.

But LightSpace requires only 1 meter read per color, advantage that makes LightSpace the king of speed for Lumagen/eeColor 17-Point Cube Profilings.

THX CineCube HD is working also with 1 meter per read, but the problem is that it has support for DAVIO or Pluto LUT Holders, not for eeColor or Lumagen, and also you can use Saved Inside Meter's Memory Correction Tables from Klein or X-Rite Hubble meters only, not from id3, you can't enter any meter correction offset manually also. I'm talking about the last THX cineCube HD 2.9.6 (Build 7146) version I have used @ 2012, But i haven't seen newer version out yet.
post #29 of 55
Ted and Mike, thanks for your input.

id3Pro for hybrid mode reading "only" 1000 points - should take less than 2hours. You think with this mode, will I still be to beat the calibration results using internal TV controls if done correctly? Checked my last ZT60 calibration, grayscale average dE was 0.7 and chromaticity 0.6. ( I cant measure the inside gamut performance if I cant check the points - Lightspace will help me ).
Peter

listening to the Mr. Jensen interview
post #30 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plutotype View Post

Ted and Mike, thanks for your input.

id3Pro for hybrid mode reading "only" 1000 points - should take less than 2hours. You think with this mode, will I still be to beat the calibration results using internal TV controls if done correctly? Checked my last ZT60 calibration, grayscale average dE was 0.7 and chromaticity 0.6. ( I cant measure the inside gamut performance if I cant check the points - Lightspace will help me ).
Peter

listening to the Mr. Jensen interview

10-Point Cube Hybrid Mode = 1.000 Color Points (10x10x10) Cube Size combined with 21-Step Grayscale.

But you will have good results with 10-Point Cube Normal also.

Max. Time Required for id3 with ZT60 will be 1 Hour and 30 Min. with my Disk for Patterns (Automated Process), and I believe 1 Hour with Lumagen as a Pattern Generator or LightSpace's Internal Patterns from your Notebook's HDMI Out.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Display Calibration
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Display Calibration › NEW LightSpace Home Cinema Light - Affordable 3D LUTs For The Enthusiast Calibrator