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What's next for AVRs?

post #1 of 61
Thread Starter 
I currently have a Denon AVR-3808CI (2007 model I believe). 2007 was 6 yrs ago. My dad just bought a Denon AVR-X3000. Not much has changed. Its pretty much the same AVR plus / minus a few bells & whistles. Mine has more power, a phono input (not that I have a record player lol)... his has less power, no phono input (he does have a record player), but it has HDMI 1.4a, upscaling to 4k and 3D (kind of pretty irrelevant) and not much else.

So, question is... what killer new features are coming out "soon"?

* 4K is a complete waste of money at this point... no 4K sources, limited TV selection, etc. 4K will never be broadcast due to bandwidth limitations. Most channels are still 1080i (on DTV) with some of the PPV channels and VOD being 1080p.
* 3D is dead
* 5.1 is "good enough" for the majority of people. Most content is still 5.1 max. Yeah, some audiophiles want 7.1, 11.3, 92.27, etc. I said the MAJORITY of people smile.gif. Besides, even with your 92.27 setup, you'll still be playing 5.1 content smile.gif.
* Networking support on AVRs is pretty meh... can already do DNLA on all my other devices. Ok, my 3808CI web interface is a joke, but I've used it a total of 2 or 3 times in 6 yrs.

Other than that... AVRs seem to be in the same ball park as smart phones... what else ya gonna do with 'em?
post #2 of 61
Room correction software end of story! The software out now days is more the worthy of spending the money on a new receiver. All the stuff you listed as reasons negatives only adds to the reason to upgrade. Your happy great but there's much better tech available. With you thinking why would I ever trade a ,1986 Subaru for a bmw m3 they both have wheels and a motor. Lol
post #3 of 61
Thread Starter 
I have Audyssey MultEQ XT on my AVR-3808CI lol, same version that the AVR-X3000 has. They may have improved the software a bit though, but I doubt its anything you are going to notice.

What negatives did I list? That 3D and 4K are useless at this point? They are. I would not spend my $$$ for 3D or 4K features today. 4K may be more useful at a later date when content is available. 3D is dead as a doornail.

I have a 5.1 speaker setup today, my AVR is capable of doing 7.1. What am I going to do with 7.1? There are no 7.1 movies available. Actually, thats not entirely true. In 2012, there were a total of about 54 movies that had 7.1 tracks. In 2013, that number has plunged to just 29 (as of 8/25). 2010 only had a measly 9. I'm going to spend $500 - $1000 to add 2 speakers for 9 movies? I don't think so. If 7.1 goes standard at some point in the future, I would reconsider.

My AVR has the same exact networking support as my dads new one. I have DLNA on 3 of my devices. It has not been improved.

I think there is a much bigger difference between a 1986 Subaru and a BMW M3 lol.

Come on, quit exaggerating.

The golden age of AVRs was around 2000 - 2006 when everybody was transitioning to HD and AVRs were getting all the cool new HD / HDMI features.

Now its just minor tweaks and feature trickle down.
post #4 of 61
HDBaseT is now starting to show up in a few amplifies and projectors to support the long runs in some installations. It uses Ethernet cable rather than HDMI cables and is rated to distances of up to 100m (300'). I would expect it to be a common feature within the next decade.

HDBaseT does not replace HDMI. It is a different transport protocol for HDMI signals. So expect to continue using HDMI for connecting your Blu-ray player to your receiver. And use HDBaseT to go from the receiver to the projector.

http://www.hdbaset.org/

Just one more reason for another AVR upgrade cycle.
post #5 of 61
My AVR was made in 2006. I see no reason to replace it with anything current. I will if it breaks. But otherwise I don't see newer technology making much of a difference for me. I think it is just gadgetry for the most part.
post #6 of 61
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trendy View Post

HDBaseT is now starting to show up in a few amplifies and projectors to support the long runs in some installations. It uses Ethernet cable rather than HDMI cables and is rated to distances of up to 100m (300'). I would expect it to be a common feature within the next decade.

HDBaseT does not replace HDMI. It is a different transport protocol for HDMI signals. So expect to continue using HDMI for connecting your Blu-ray player to your receiver. And use HDBaseT to go from the receiver to the projector.

http://www.hdbaset.org/

Just one more reason for another AVR upgrade cycle.

Not sold in my current setup smile.gif. My AVR is 3 feet away from my TV. For people who have large home theaters where equipment is in a different room, that could be a selling point.

I do have a 1080p plasma, but its a speakerless monitor, so the input is DVI. Going to a 1080p Plasma with HDMI might offer CEC support, but my current work-around is a macro remote, so that's not really a selling point either.
post #7 of 61
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FMW View Post

My AVR was made in 2006. I see no reason to replace it with anything current. I will if it breaks. But otherwise I don't see newer technology making much of a difference for me. I think it is just gadgetry for the most part.

Yeah, I did do the AVR-3808CI feature upgrade last year (since it had become free) and got CEC (which is nice) and the volume equalization or something like that.

If my AVR died, of course I would get the AVR-X3000 today, but aside from that...
post #8 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trendy View Post

HDBaseT is now starting to show up in a few amplifies and projectors to support the long runs in some installations. It uses Ethernet cable rather than HDMI cables and is rated to distances of up to 100m (300'). I would expect it to be a common feature within the next decade.

HDBaseT does not replace HDMI. It is a different transport protocol for HDMI signals. So expect to continue using HDMI for connecting your Blu-ray player to your receiver. And use HDBaseT to go from the receiver to the projector.

http://www.hdbaset.org/

Just one more reason for another AVR upgrade cycle.

You don't need to upgrade your AVR or Processor for HDBaseT. There are a plethora of adapters (dare I say transceivers) which convert an HDMI signal to HDBaseT and back. These adapters/transceivers are much more cost effective than upgrading a perfectly good AVR or processor.

I agree with Sledghammer, not much has changed over the past six or seven years, except that most AVR manufacturers have taken huge shortcuts in the built-in amps. I would stack my Denon 4806ci up against any AVR today.
post #9 of 61
wifi ac for wireless set ups
post #10 of 61
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryder125 View Post

wifi ac for wireless set ups

Not needed. AVRs only have 100Mbps ethernet at this point. That's not going to saturate G much less N. With that being said, I *do* have a 4 port AC wireless bridge at my equipment rack, so all my wired devices are "AC".

With that being said (again lol), what are you gonna do with Ethernet on your AVR? Web config from your PC? Ok, you'll do that once. DLNA? Ok, maybe, if you don't have other devices that already do it (better or more convienient). I have 4 devices that do DNLA: AVR, BluRay player, iPhone and DirecTV DVR. Of my 4 DLNA devices, I'd probably say my DVR is #1 in terms of being the best and most convienient. AVR is #2. iPhone is #3. BluRay player is #4. I ranked the BluRay player the worst because its UI is java based and slow. Plus, I have to go through the hassle of turning it on, switching inputs, going through slow menus, etc. My DirecTV box is always on / connected and pretty fast for the DLNA side of things.

I would be surprised to see streaming come to AVRs. That seems like a BluRay players job.

What would you think an AVR with unlimited networking bandwidth should do? Serious question. Cuz I can't really think of anything. They aren't going to add Netflix streaming or something like that, I don't think. I guess they could if people get away from physical media and go to an all streaming model...
post #11 of 61
wifi ac will be able to replace HDMI cables, I think that be pretty cool to have your cable box, Blu ray, TV all connect wirelessly, it'll really clean things up, it wouldn't matter how many hdmi inputs your avr has then
Edited by Ryder125 - 8/25/13 at 11:14pm
post #12 of 61
Quote:
Other than that... AVRs seem to be in the same ball park as smart phones... what else ya gonna do with 'em?

Smart phones are the avr equivalent of wireless telephony. Manufacturers are smart a$$e$ to draw money out of buyers for stuff they may never require or use and yet they make them buy those. For people like me who are purely into music and movies performance wouldn't change their receivers unless there is another in the market that does their dirty laundry or gives them a body massage every morning on top of the basic features. wink.gif
post #13 of 61
Quote:
wifi ac will be able to replace HDMI cables, I think that be pretty cool to have your cable box, Blu ray, TV all connect wirelessly, it'll really clean things up.

Ask audiophiles who still use multi-channel analog input for music/movies. smile.gif
post #14 of 61
I think the next "game changer" is high quality wireless video & audio.
post #15 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by braveheart123 View Post

Ask audiophiles who still use multi-channel analog input for music/movies. smile.gif

It's a small niche group who want the analog inputs but for 90% of the other people ditching wires to connect your game unit, cable box, blu ray ect will be greatly welcomed same with wireless power but I think that's still a few years away and has a reach of 2 feet right now but wifi ac is here now and I think in the next few years as TVs, Bluray players and AVRs add it its going to be a hit.
post #16 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by SledgeHammer View Post

I have Audyssey MultEQ XT on my AVR-3808CI lol, same version that the AVR-X3000 has. They may have improved the software a bit though, but I doubt its anything you are going to notice.

What negatives did I list? That 3D and 4K are useless at this point? They are. I would not spend my $$$ for 3D or 4K features today. 4K may be more useful at a later date when content is available. 3D is dead as a doornail.

I have a 5.1 speaker setup today, my AVR is capable of doing 7.1. What am I going to do with 7.1? There are no 7.1 movies available. Actually, thats not entirely true. In 2012, there were a total of about 54 movies that had 7.1 tracks. In 2013, that number has plunged to just 29 (as of 8/25). 2010 only had a measly 9. I'm going to spend $500 - $1000 to add 2 speakers for 9 movies? I don't think so. If 7.1 goes standard at some point in the future, I would reconsider.

My AVR has the same exact networking support as my dads new one. I have DLNA on 3 of my devices. It has not been improved.

I think there is a much bigger difference between a 1986 Subaru and a BMW M3 lol.

Come on, quit exaggerating.

The golden age of AVRs was around 2000 - 2006 when everybody was transitioning to HD and AVRs were getting all the cool new HD / HDMI features.

Now its just minor tweaks and feature trickle down.
Would wholeheartedly agree with sledgehammer's comments
post #17 of 61
Generally, I agree, but I don't think 3D is useless. I watch 3D movies and I don't understand how you judge 7.1 useless due to lack of source material, yet state 3D is useless when there's a plethora of source material. I also like running more than 5.1. Even without source material, the AVR processing does a good job of simulating the extra channels.
post #18 of 61
In my case - this discussion could easily go back 10-12 years! I own a very expensive Pioneer Elite "flagship" from about 10 years ago that has great amplification and wonderful sound. Being one always tempted by new technology, I keep looking at "upgrading". So far, I just have not been able to convince myself that the new stuff will give me that great improvement in audio quality that I achieved in my last upgrade from the synthetic surround of 4 channel from the early 80s. Sure HDMI would be nice and convenient, sure having video overlay for receiver functions would be nice, yes room correction has improved but I added an Anti-mode to my setup recently to compensate, yes being able to use my iPad to control the system would be convenient. Seems I have been able to achieve most of the new audio decoding and advancements and features by upgrading my blu-ray player over time. Yes I am limited to 7 channels but don't see major improvements by going to 9 or 11 channel at this time. All I need is one really great item that give me a significant audio improvement for me to make the purchase. Many will argue that room correction will do that but I am not convinced at this time as my system sounds far better to me than any others I have heard. Spending my money on a step-up with speakers currently.
post #19 of 61
Any inputs to any zones. Period.

With the "supposed" big thing being home automation and everything, everywhere, it's about time HDMI and other digital inputs are accessible in multiple zones. Denon gets it half right with some of their CI line at least being able to do SPDIF to the zones, but there's still gaping holes with any unit that claims to be truly multi-zoned.

Heck, there are plenty of devices already that don't even offer analog outputs anymore...

APPLE TV anyone?

With HDMI at 10+ years old now, It's time is LONG overdue, especially in higher-end/flagship AVRs.

James
post #20 of 61
I have been saying that AVRs have hit MANY of the big buttons for years now. Still, that doesn't mean there haven't been improvements that have merit.

I have an 11 channel surround array and it sounds fantastic. Switching between the 5.1 source and the 11 channel "matrixing" is very easy to do and I haven't had a single person yet say they didn't prefer the 11 channel up-mix over the 5.1.

I don't know why people insist on saying it doesn't improve the surround effect when it patently does. Is it an out of this world, mind-blowing effect? Not for most content, I have found, but it DOES do a better job, lmo. Heck, just adding heights changes the game with Dolby PLIIz.

Yes, discreet channels would be great, but that by no means renders 9//11 channel results impotent. I would advise to try it before judging.

James
post #21 of 61
One area they all could improve would be GUI there is no reason for them not to include all info on your TV screen since these days AV is joined together more so than ever.
post #22 of 61
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by KidHorn View Post

Generally, I agree, but I don't think 3D is useless. I watch 3D movies and I don't understand how you judge 7.1 useless due to lack of source material, yet state 3D is useless when there's a plethora of source material. I also like running more than 5.1. Even without source material, the AVR processing does a good job of simulating the extra channels.

If there is no 7.1 material, you are just using your AVR to simulate the extra 2 channels. Cool. I can take stereo 2.0 off the radio and simulate 5.1. I don't. I always watch / listen to material in its native format. Some people like to set their TV to stretch mode rather then see 2 vertical black bars too.
post #23 of 61
I have to agree with SledgeHammer when OTA/ Cable and SAT go a true 7.1 then I want it but the limited source does not make me want to upgrade.
We instal any speaker arrangement the client wants does adding more speakers sound different you bet does it sound better thats subjective.
I have noticed one trend I absolutely hate more channels of weaker amplification attached to cheap speakers because instead of getting 5 really nice speakers I am seeing 9 cheap speakers which sound disappointing to say the least and let it need some headroom and now the AVR runs out of steam because it has 9 weak amps instead of 7 nice amps .
It is true quantity sells over quality .
post #24 of 61
With you thinking why would I ever trade a ,1986 Subaru for a bmw m3 they both have wheels and a motor.I just have not been able to convince myself that the new stuff will give me that great improvement in audio quality that I achieved in my last upgrade from the synthetic surround of 4 channel from the early 80s.NLg8fL
post #25 of 61
If you use your analogy of cars then of course you would want a new 2013 AVR over a 1986 AVR and since you used Suburu to BMW you would probably want a Marantz over a Sansui.
post #26 of 61
XT32. You'll be amazed the difference in sound. Sure you don't need 9/11 channels, it's more immersive, you'll be able to appreciate the difference even in 5.1. Marantz AV8801 or Denon 4520. If it's sound your after, you'll be amazed!

Check it out in a proper setup if possible. Movies, stereo, sacd, makes no difference, you'll be amazed in that feature alone.
post #27 of 61
I can see it now consumer Atmos just drag out the hole saw and start cutting holes 4 Ft apart for the 22 speakers and AVR's with 20 wpc lol.
post #28 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by frrypol View Post

With you thinking why would I ever trade a ,1986 Subaru for a bmw m3 they both have wheels and a motor.I just have not been able to convince myself that the new stuff will give me that great improvement in audio quality that I achieved in my last upgrade from the synthetic surround of 4 channel from the early 80s.NLg8fL

Well I was the one who put the car analogy out there . For me the upgrade was more then worth it I went from a 2004 denon receiver that does not have half the formats available today yes is had basic dolby digital but only when hooked up to optical input and only has one input. I think this is it
AVR-486S
http://www.abt.com/product/21408/Denon-AVR486S.html

To a 2013 Denon x4000 Needless to say what I am getting is WAY better and worth the upgrade.

I guess it depends where your coming from and what your getting
post #29 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by oztech View Post

I can see it now consumer Atmos just drag out the hole saw and start cutting holes 4 Ft apart for the 22 speakers and AVR's with 20 wpc lol.
If you do decide to install 22 satellite speakers for an (at-this-time entirely speculative) Dolby Atmos consumer implementation, I suggest you at least wait until there is some agreement on a compromise speaker configuration which also accommodates the (at-this-time speculative in the USA) Hamasaki 22.2 layout associated with future UHDTV1|UHDTV2 broadcast TV. eek.gifcool.gifbiggrin.gif


_
Edited by SoundChex - 8/26/13 at 12:11pm
post #30 of 61
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by frrypol View Post

With you thinking why would I ever trade a ,1986 Subaru for a bmw m3 they both have wheels and a motor.I just have not been able to convince myself that the new stuff will give me that great improvement in audio quality that I achieved in my last upgrade from the synthetic surround of 4 channel from the early 80s.NLg8fL

I actually did upgrade my 2002 BMW 325i to a 2005 BMW M3 in early 2006 and I noticed a huge difference. 2x the power, better styling, built navigation, better handling, better brakes, etc. It was night and day. Not a valid comparison smile.gif. There is no night & day difference between a 3808CI and a AVR-X3000.
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