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Your Home Theater ULF Score - Page 15

post #421 of 1882
Quote:
Originally Posted by JapanDave View Post

As we all know I destroyed a LMS ultra on HTTYD

I didn't. I thought those things were indestructible.

Just wow.
post #422 of 1882
Quote:
Originally Posted by K1LL3M View Post

I didn't. I thought those things were indestructible.

Just wow.

Not...at...all...
Quote:

ce81f3a7.jpg

Reference post here.
post #423 of 1882
Hi Dom, my score has changed after my complete DIY Sound Group upgrade...smile.gif

laugsbach - 395 @10Hz - 3000cf - 7.6 SI - 4 x 18 SI, Ricci's DIY Ported w/RE Audio MX-18 D2 driver - all powered by a total of (3) EP-4000 amps.

laugsbach - 227 @12.5Hz - 3000cf - 13.2 SI - 4 x 18 SI, Ricci's DIY Ported w/RE Audio MX-18 D2 driver - all powered by a total of (3) EP-4000 amps.
post #424 of 1882
Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

Not...at...all...

Thanks

Thats crazy
post #425 of 1882
Quote:
Originally Posted by K1LL3M View Post

Thanks

Thats crazy

That's one of the reasons I got rid of my LMS-U's... I was always so scared to push them to their limit because once they hit that limit, they usually hit that limit hard.

Didn't want to make a $500 mistake in an attempt to get the most extension that I could.
post #426 of 1882
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by laugsbach View Post

Hi Dom, my score has changed after my complete DIY Sound Group upgrade...smile.gif

laugsbach - 395 @10Hz - 3000cf - 7.6 SI - 4 x 18 SI, Ricci's DIY Ported w/RE Audio MX-18 D2 driver - all powered by a total of (3) EP-4000 amps.

laugsbach - 227 @12.5Hz - 3000cf - 13.2 SI - 4 x 18 SI, Ricci's DIY Ported w/RE Audio MX-18 D2 driver - all powered by a total of (3) EP-4000 amps.

Congrats! Can't wait to hear your new setup...both the Fusion 12's and your new SI's!

 

We have very similar scores now for 10 and 12.5hz. It will be interesting to compare the two from an output perspective to see if our rooms are a similar ULF experience.

 

Looking forward to it!

post #427 of 1882
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post


That's one of the reasons I got rid of my LMS-U's... I was always so scared to push them to their limit because once they hit that limit, they usually hit that limit hard.

Didn't want to make a $500 mistake in an attempt to get the most extension that I could.

Wow, you aren't kidding about bottoming out...sheesh! How was it only a $500 mistake?

 

Have you been able to bottom our your SIs yet???

post #428 of 1882
Quote:
Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post

Wow, you aren't kidding about bottoming out...sheesh! How was it only a $500 mistake?

The LMS-U is a two piece unit. If one damages the cone, they can simply swap out the basket assembly while still using the original motor. The basket alone runs about $489. Of course this assuming you didn't damage your motor...but honestly, I don't ever recall seeing anyone thermal a LMS-U.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post

Have you been able to bottom our your SIs yet???

I've heard one nasty sound from one of my subs several months ago...back when I first hooked up and pushed my nearfield subs... I've tried to replicate that scenario on several other occasions to try to pinpoint the issue, but since that one issue I always seem to pop breakers or clip my amp before reaching my subs limits.

Don't get me wrong...I'm sure I could bottom them out If I simply burped a 8Hz tone at full tilt, but I'm really not trying to kill my gear!

I find myself inching up the MV more and more everyday, so I'm sure one day I'll reach that point where all 16 subs smack the back plate in unison. Pretty sure that will be a reality check and I really hope I don't screw anything up or cause permanent damage.

I'm having a handful of local AVSers over this weekend for a demo...I'm sure few beers in I'll get more liberal with the MV as the day goes on. I'll report back if I embarrass myself.

tongue.gif
post #429 of 1882
Thread Starter 

Post 2 Member Scores Updated

  • MiniHT 4.5 star (10hz)
  • laugsbach - 5 star (12.5hz), 4.5 star (10hz)

 

I've also calculated and added Ralph Potts score. I respect his work, and thought it would be interesting to understand what kind of ULF experience he has in his room.

 

Room Size = 14x23x8 = 2576cf

Sub = SVS PB13-Ultra (15hz mode)

 

1 PB13 = 2.3 SI @ 16hz

 

2576cf / 2.3 SI = 1120@16hz or 4 star

 

So, he's right on the edge of 4 and 3.5 star so he's probably right around reference output at 20hz or so...

post #430 of 1882
@dominguez1, can you redo my ULF score for me. I finally got the nearfeild LMS18" ULTRA finished. I am coupling it to a 3" riser behind the LP to hopefully fix a small dip I have in the FR. If this works, I am going to build box that spans the width of the seats and use another RE XXX 18" to match sound from the others. The box should have more than 4 x the Vas, so hopefully that will stay inline with the sound of the IB subs. Well that is the plan. For the time being can you do it with the 18 LMS?

Hear is a pic of it finished in its bare box while test placements.

post #431 of 1882
How would an old 12/2 Ultra rank in 16hz mode? I am using 3 PB13s in 15hz mode and a 12/2 Ultra in 16hz mode in a 1500cf sealed room and trying to see how I score.
post #432 of 1882
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JapanDave View Post

@dominguez1, can you redo my ULF score for me. I finally got the nearfeild LMS18" ULTRA finished. I am coupling it to a 3" riser behind the LP to hopefully fix a small dip I have in the FR. If this works, I am going to build box that spans the width of the seats and use another RE XXX 18" to match sound from the others. The box should have more than 4 x the Vas, so hopefully that will stay inline with the sound of the IB subs. Well that is the plan. For the time being can you do it with the 18 LMS?


Hear is a pic of it finished in its bare box while test placements.


You sir, are insane...I LOVE IT! biggrin.gif  I think it's awesome you have spare LMS-U's laying around.

I'd love to experience your room...gotta be just crazy.

And for your new score...

2900cf
8 RE XXX = 21.6 SIs
1 LMS-U = 1.9 SI

21.6 + 1.9 = 23.5 SI eek.gif  

2900 / 23.5 = 123@10hz!!!  eek.gif  :eek

New ULF Heavy Weight Champ folks!

EDIT: fixed my math...
Edited by dominguez1 - 10/14/13 at 7:43pm
post #433 of 1882
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

How would an old 12/2 Ultra rank in 16hz mode? I am using 3 PB13s in 15hz mode and a 12/2 Ultra in 16hz mode in a 1500cf sealed room and trying to see how I score.

Is the 12/2 Ultra the same as PB12-Plus? If so:

 

1500cf

1 PB13 = 2.3 SI @ 16hz

1 PB12 = 1.6 SI @ 16hz

3 PB13 = 6.9 SI + 1.6 SI = 8.5 SI

 

1500 / 8.5 = 176@16hz or 5 Star!

 

Your 12.5hz score would be 577@12.5hz or 4.5 star.

 

Impressive scores!

post #434 of 1882
Quote:
Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post

You sir, are insane...I LOVE IT! biggrin.gif  I think it's awesome you have spare LMS-U's laying around.

I'd love to experience your room...gotta be just crazy.

And for your new score...

2900cf
8 RE XXX = 21.6 SIs
1 LMS-U = 1.9 SI

21.6 + 1.9 = 23.5 SI eek.gif

2900 / 29.5 = 98@10hz!!!  eek.gif  eek.gif

New ULF Heavy Weight Champ folks!

You divided wrong, 2900/23.5 = 123!
post #435 of 1882
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

You divided wrong, 2900/23.5 = 123!
Damn...you're right. 100 barrier still in tact.

123@10hz for JapanDave!
post #436 of 1882
I have thought of building another baffle wall in the back with the surrounds and 8 more 18's just for fun! This would replace the back 3 seats. What the hell would that achieve? Awesome score but useless headroom. I had a 247 score with the eD system with 10 dBs over reference! I run the bass hot but it will still be 10 dBs hot even with 6 more dBs of headroom than before. It should sound the same until I go over the eD's limits.
post #437 of 1882
Quote:
Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post

Is the 12/2 Ultra the same as PB12-Plus? If so:

1500cf
1 PB13 = 2.3 SI @ 16hz
1 PB12 = 1.6 SI @ 16hz
3 PB13 = 6.9 SI + 1.6 SI = 8.5 SI

1500 / 8.5 = 176@16hz or 5 Star!

Your 12.5hz score would be 577@12.5hz or 4.5 star.

Impressive scores!

Thanks for running those numbers! smile.gif

The 12/2 Ultra has 2 of the old 12" SVS Ultra drivers and I assume the PB12-Plus just has 1 12"? IDK how they compare otherwise.
post #438 of 1882
Quote:
Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post

You sir, are insane...I LOVE IT! biggrin.gif  I think it's awesome you have spare LMS-U's laying around.

I'd love to experience your room...gotta be just crazy.

And for your new score...

2900cf
8 RE XXX = 21.6 SIs
1 LMS-U = 1.9 SI

21.6 + 1.9 = 23.5 SI eek.gif  

2900 / 23.5 = 123@10hz!!!  eek.gif  :eek

New ULF Heavy Weight Champ folks!

EDIT: fixed my math...

Should provide effortless bass for sure!
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

I have thought of building another baffle wall in the back with the surrounds and 8 more 18's just for fun! This would replace the back 3 seats. What the hell would that achieve? Awesome score but useless headroom. I had a 247 score with the eD system with 10 dBs over reference! I run the bass hot but it will still be 10 dBs hot even with 6 more dBs of headroom than before. It should sound the same until I go over the eD's limits.
You may not recall me mentioning this, but I am building a 2" high riser for my main seats and due to the fact that I can not choose my second IB placement, I have a small dip around 32hz. My goal with the LMS is to flaten out the FR and couple the sub to the riser, this way I will get an even more tactile feel for bass. (Not that it lacks now) It certainly is not about any scores, as I already had the LMS drivers (Still have 1 more just sitting in my garage right now and I had been building this box long before this thread popped up)

post #439 of 1882
No need for any explanations, if I had extra drivers I would use all of them! I always run 10 dBs hot because I love the ULFS running hot! I may employ a house curve and keep the LFE flat so the 20hz and lower is the only portion running hot!
post #440 of 1882
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post


Thanks for running those numbers! smile.gif

The 12/2 Ultra has 2 of the old 12" SVS Ultra drivers and I assume the PB12-Plus just has 1 12"? IDK how they compare otherwise.

I googled the 12/2 Ultra and couldn't find much. The only thing I found was that the PB13 replaced it and is supposed to have more output. I think using the PB12 Plus should be close enough for this purpose. :)

post #441 of 1882
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JapanDave View Post


Should provide effortless bass for sure!
You may not recall me mentioning this, but I am building a 2" high riser for my main seats and due to the fact that I can not choose my second IB placement, I have a small dip around 32hz. My goal with the LMS is to flaten out the FR and couple the sub to the riser, this way I will get an even more tactile feel for bass. (Not that it lacks now) It certainly is not about any scores, as I already had the LMS drivers (Still have 1 more just sitting in my garage right now and I had been building this box long before this thread popped up)

Keep us posted on how it works out...

post #442 of 1882
Quote:
Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post

I googled the 12/2 Ultra and couldn't find much. The only thing I found was that the PB13 replaced it and is supposed to have more output. I think using the PB12 Plus should be close enough for this purpose. smile.gif

Sounds good. Thanks again!
post #443 of 1882
Thread Starter 

Post 2 - Member Scores Updated

  • JapanDave tops the list with a score of 123@10hz and the equivalent of 23.5 SIs in his room!
  • Toe - 5 Star @16hz, 4.5 Star @12.5hz
post #444 of 1882
Thread Starter 

Since the PSA Triax has landed, any thoughts around what the SI equivalent might be?

 

LL

 

At 10hz,

  • the SubM is estimated at 1.4 SI
  • the JTR S2 is estimated at 2.8 SI
  • I'm thinking around 2.3 SI for 1 Triax? This would be the equivalent output of 96.5db at 10hz.

 

Thoughts? Has any more data been released to come at it more factually? 

post #445 of 1882
It should be very close to the Cap S2.
post #446 of 1882
Thread Starter 

The S2 estimate for 10hz output is 98.2. The Triax would be 96.5. So there would be a 1.7db@10hz advantage for the S2. They are pretty close, but the S2 having a little more output makes sense to me as I believe it has more overall displacement.

 

Speaking in SI terms @10hz:

 

  • The DIY 15" Driver - AE15HT is .7 SI
  • The SubM has 2 15's, and is estimated at 1.4 SI
  • The Triax has 3 15's which would put it at 2.1 SI (if we looked at the above), but since there is some unknown about it, I just said 2.3 SI

Edited by dominguez1 - 10/20/13 at 4:55pm
post #447 of 1882
The Triax is using higher excursion drivers than the Submersive. It is said to have 30mm of x-max which is usually about 3 dBs lower than an 18 with the same. So dual Cap drivers should be 3 dBs more than dual Triax drivers given the same displacement. Now add 3 dBs for the extra driver in the Triax and we are equal. Lots of assumptions though without T/S parameters.
post #448 of 1882
Thread Starter 

Has the 30mm xmax ever been confirmed? I knew it had a claimed 30mm one way excursion, but it was never clear if that was xmax or xmech.

 

If it was xmax, that would make sense...30mm xmax seems quite high though for a 15in driver. An xmech of that distance seems more realistic.

post #449 of 1882
Your Cap S2 estimate is having the 18" drivers each moving 27mm. Based on what we know about the driver, this seems reasonable.

We don't know much about the Triax drivers, but there are claimed CEA-2010 numbers. Because they are averaged (20-31.5Hz), and because he uses the goofy pascal conversion which shifts the weighting, it's hard to nail down exactly what is claimed. It seems though, with what is given, that you'd need right around the same amount of throw from each driver to hit those numbers.

So 3 x 15's each with 27mm clean throw would yield 98.5dB, identical to the Cap S2 for our purposes.

That's my best guess with what's available.
post #450 of 1882
Quote:
If it was xmax, that would make sense...30mm xmax seems quite high though for a 15in driver. An xmech of that distance seems more realistic.

And then there's the lil 12” 40# that might/could http://creativesound.ca/pdf/SDX12.pdf
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