or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers › Your Home Theater ULF Score
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Your Home Theater ULF Score - Page 17

post #481 of 1882
Remember, the plural of Anecdote is not 'Data'.
post #482 of 1882
Quote:
Originally Posted by nfraso View Post

That wasn't your eD nearfield, it was a WinISD sim. tongue.gif Yes, you have two graphs at your LP that when overlaid vs accurate nearfield responses (IE, not yours) give us a pretty good picture of how the room is affecting the response. Is there any level of precision to be had there? It doesn't really seem so. After all, your room isn't going to be slightly different on different days. rolleyes.gif

How many measurement rigs have you used for all of your different systems? Has your signal chain changed since the 190v2s up until now?

You have measurements of the Chase 18 with the FP14000, but how many people use this? Vast majority have the Dayton SA1000- do you have output data for that configuration?

You want to throw the KC GTG results out the window because the Chase subs placed dead last- and I'm the one with some sort of bias here?

I agree that this is getting stupid, I just don't understand why you keep pressing it. To better keep this on topic can you try to respond to the discussion about the excursion capabilities of the Eminence driver vs the Dayton given all of the actual facts available to us.

No, I don't have bias, I just show my experiences. I throw any comparsions out the window without flat responses to begin with, or error in setup. I did not use the incorrect Nearfield for anything except to show what I got. When someone said it was wrong I said OK. The eD nearfield I have is pretty close and shows a little room involved as it was in my room near a wall, not far off though as Bosso said it showed my room gain profile. The CHT subs are passive and can be used with any amplifier(FQ10000, not FP14K). You just wanting to discuss the Dayton is your agenda, not mine. I have used 3 different measuring rigs, the omnimic was for a short duration and just showed how it compared to REW with a calibrated mic. I never mentioned which one was more accurate or better, all the members decided for themselves, well, the ones that cared. Again, you are dwelling about the past on old measuring gear. I have had the calibrated behringer mic for a while now and measured my last 3 systems with them for comparisons. My RS meter with just C-weighting and no cal files was pretty darn close and could be used as well.

Keep pressing it? Me? Actual Facts? Everything is not proven until Ricci tests the sealed subs. If I buy the Dayton and test it compared to my eD's, 13av2's, I can get an idea how the CHT's stacked up since I would have real world experience with them all. I won't say anything bad about any as I let people make up their own mind. When I say experiences I mean measured data for my room.
post #483 of 1882
It's not a big deal man, I already said go for it. It just won't mean much if anything to me, if that's what you're doing it for.

It's not dwelling in the past if you plan on using the past as evidence. Old questionable measurements with LG clones powering the CS-18s don't really have any applicable use to the configuration Chase marketed and sold to most people (including me).

I just don't understand what you're trying to prove here. The Chase 18 cannot physically move past 20mm, the Dayton can. Those are indisputable facts at this point.

To argue the Chase 18 is clean through 95% of it's throw but the Dayton isn't just because Chase says so is pretty ludicrous considering he's already been caught making false claims.
post #484 of 1882
Sooooo, how bout them 24's...hitting HT's soon...Good stuff.
post #485 of 1882
Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

Sooooo, how bout them 24's...hitting HT's soon...Good stuff.

Yeah I know 24s. I haven't even tried the 21s! At this point in life I’m trying to see what I can do with a good 12 albeit I have larger drivers to play with. So I guess a 24 is to a 18 what a 12 is to a 18. Man that’s huge!
post #486 of 1882
Yes!

I have a sneaking suspicion that MKs new baffle will feature 24's at some point down the road... biggrin.gif Call me crazy.
post #487 of 1882
Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

Sooooo, how bout them 24's...hitting HT's soon...Good stuff.


Haha, this made me laugh. ^




Hey Matt and James (or anyone else), speaking of the KC GTG I've been wondering this lately.


With my SI and CV5000 setup I've become very good at picking out the sound my CV amp makes when it is clipping. It's a "chirping" sound. This only happens when I'm being stoooopid and cranking the subs WAY over reference but nevertheless I've done that very thing enough times to instantly recognize that sound.

Now, back to the KC GTG at Archaeas. It was stated that the reason the CHT subs finished last was because the amp was being overdriven and any bad sounds we heard were the clipping amp and was not the fault of the drivers.

Well, I honestly didn't even notice the bad sounds from the subs that other people did but I also did not hear that "chirping" sound of an amp being overdriven.

My impression of the CHT subs was that they just sounded flat and lifeless for music and not much low end for movies which was why I voted them last in the blind testing.


Is that chirping just a sound my CV5000 will make and not necessarily every amp that's powering subs and starting to clip?
post #488 of 1882
Quote:
Originally Posted by nfraso View Post

Yes!

I have a sneaking suspicion that MKs new baffle will feature 24's at some point down the road... biggrin.gif Call me crazy.

LOL If I ever go into the driver business, I have him at the top of my list. rolleyes.gifbiggrin.gif
post #489 of 1882
Quote:
Is that chirping just a sound my CV5000 will make and not necessarily every amp that's powering subs and starting to clip?

I’ve had 5-7 different outboards and never have noticed it than I can recall??
post #490 of 1882
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

Sooooo, how bout them 24's...hitting HT's soon...Good stuff.


Haha, this made me laugh. ^




Hey Matt and James (or anyone else), speaking of the KC GTG I've been wondering this lately.


With my SI and CV5000 setup I've become very good at picking out the sound my CV amp makes when it is clipping. It's a "chirping" sound. This only happens when I'm being stoooopid and cranking the subs WAY over reference but nevertheless I've done that very thing enough times to instantly recognize that sound.

Now, back to the KC GTG at Archaeas. It was stated that the reason the CHT subs finished last was because the amp was being overdriven and any bad sounds we heard were the clipping amp and was not the fault of the drivers.

Well, I honestly didn't even notice the bad sounds from the subs that other people did but I also did not hear that "chirping" sound of an amp being overdriven.

My impression of the CHT subs was that they just sounded flat and lifeless for music and not much low end for movies which was why I voted them last in the blind testing.


Is that chirping just a sound my CV5000 will make and not necessarily every amp that's powering subs and starting to clip?

And to a bit more info - yet keep it short here - - what continually fails to be mentioned is that we were encountering bad sounds on the lowest notes without any clip lights showing on the amp during the music section in both saturday's testing and sunday's retesting. Bass I love you, and the 100hz to 20hz sine sweep, in the music audition, both made bad driver sounds and the clip lights were NOT on. The 100hz to 20hz test tone clip was a slow draw down in frequency - nothing dynamic at all - thus the clip lights certainly have no reason to be inaccurate on a slow sweeping tone dropping in frequency. The clip lights never bleeped for music - yet we heard bad noise at the bottom notes both during the meet and during the retest with the same settings and MLV. The solution to that type of situation as MKTheater always says --- is to add multiples, and thus reduce excursion requirements at the dedicated volume!!!

Anyway - - - the clipping issue notes at the meet would only apply to the dynamic movie scenes. I'll also have everyone recall that owner who was infinitely familiar with the 18.1 subs said during Friday night's setup before the meet they sounded the best he'd ever heard on the INuke during setup where the exact same clipping (or over excursion) problems were being exhibited on the same tracks. Furthermore he stated it was worth it to him to hear the few bad noises we encountered on Friday night during setup time to have the over all increase in sound quality and depth of note for his subs when paired with the INuke. So much so that he didn't even want to try the Dayton that night to compare. I emphatically, and unmistakably warned/told him that I was hearing the CHT subs making bad noises on those couple clips, and that I expected no other subs in the meet to make those noises at this volume level, and was he sure he wanted to keep the DSP settings set for flat frequency response???, or instead use the Dayton - and he said he wanted to use the INuke with the flat frequency response we had accomplished through the DSP during our setup because otherwise it sounded so good!!! He said if nothing else he was afraid the Dayton amp would cut out at the levels we were going to audition -- this conversation certainly witnessed by kwarny, desertdome, and perhaps huskeromaha who was dozing in and out being tired from the drive in.

As another side note --- the same INuke amp's clip lights were on solid to the point the amp power cycled at least three times when the caps were being auditioned during the blind meet and nobody complained of bad sounds. I've personally had that INuke tapped out to the point of power cycling well over a dozen times in my ownership, and never heard 'chirping' on the caps. That point may be moot - since the caps are two ohm - and the CHT subs are not, and the caps handle much more power. I don't know the answer to that. Ultimately, the music test without clipping on INuke/CHT combo yet still hearing bad noises rules out clipping as the CHT's sole problem in my book --- and points to limits of driver excursion at the SPL levels auditioned. FWIW - the HSU VTF-15 had no problem with the exact same material during the blind audition and the same retest session on Sunday. (ported vs sealed advantage comes into play here at those lower notes - but the overall point being - the CHT subs IMO - WERE seemingly tapped out). I see that Craig now is saying in his forum the INuke DSP 3000 amp is a decent amp to pair his CHT 18.1 subs with. Do you guys remember at the time that the INuke amp was said to be an inferior amp combination to the point of sabotage of the meet results if used with these subs? (despite the sub owner saying it was the best he'd ever heard his subs sound)

We verified this whole thing all over again Sunday after the blind meet during some retesting between tesseract67 and I. This in attempt to ensure nothing went wrong. We pulled the same saved DSP settings from Friday night, used on Saturday and Sunday. Nothing was different than expected. In the meet thread, all the settings used were published. No tricks. The Inuke DSP settings used were provided, the music/media used was provided, and the problem was repeatable and was witnessed on all three days and many occasions during our testing times. Yes, the problem could be repeated by anyone curious enough to do so. I offered all this data to Craig through PM before publishing. There was a lot of drama at that point that i'll not go into publicly here, but anyone with the 18.1 and an INuke could easily repeat the situation and see for themselves -- even today. Everything was public about our testing. I was as honest, fair, and open as I possibly could be about the whole event. I didn't even consider giving any sub any intentional advantage. I wished Craig, or CHT, no ill. I hoped they would do as well as they could, just as I did for any sub there. Impartial blind testing, with unbiased results was my goal --- and the meets goal!

Furthermore:
The bad noises of the CHT were something that HuskerOmaha told me in person at the meet he was able to recognize during the CHT blind audition because he owned a CHT set himself and he knew what that noise they make sounded like. Greg told me, in fact, the only sub he was confident on which was which during the blind testing was the CHT because of this sound. I don't recall what amp Greg used at his house on the CHT - but it sure was not the Inuke - because out of that group of attendees at the time I was the only one who owned one.

During Sunday's retest the Dayton amp was hapless powering the CHT subs in my room. (which unfortunately has little to no helpful room gain as shown multiple times on multiple subs in different threads over the years). During Sunday's retest tesseract67 and I both easily agreed the CHT would have been scored worse by the group blind vote if the Dayton amp had been employed over the INuke - when we A/Bed the amps for several hours. At the volumes we used at the KC meet, the Dayton amp just didn't cut the mustard. It had no pant leg shake effect in my room - none...and it played the low notes with much less authority than the INuke did with the DSP settings engaged. Here is that retest data info.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1387178/archaeas-kansas-city-blind-subwoofer-shootout-2012/330#post_21515107


I'd be happy to repeat the test with the 18.1 pair and the amp of CHT's choice vs. the Submersive pair, or JTR equipment - especially if it was drama free. I just don't personally think the CHT was in the same league as the more expensive counterparts, as was pushed/expected by many of the CHT advocates. The CHT 18.1 are a decent 18" sub, superior to many similar priced options on the market - - - and I'd recommended them in the past, but compared to the far more expensive subwoofers present - they were simply outclassed in performance. They scored in line with their price. Nothing wrong with that. I don't really know why anyone truly expected more than that? I liked the CHT at the HuskerOmaha meet, but even there I thought they were taxed a bit on certain clips and we were playing them at lower volumes by quite a margin than we did in KC. When I pointed out some of the slightly uncomfortable sounds at the HuskerOmaha 2011 meet I was told it was room noise by Craig Chase who was also in attendance (despite the fact the other more expensive auditions didn't make those same "room noises"). Since I was unfamiliar with the room, I gave the benefit of the doubt to that explanation - but in hindsight - I think that was more likely the subs showing their limits - especially since the material auditioned was the same for all subs and the more expensive subs did make the room exhibit those noises.

^ my two cents on the matter...

I recently spoke with a very respected AVSforum member through PM who has owned both CHT 18.1 sealed and put together a Dayton 18" system. He said the 18.1 were good for what they were, but they were not competitive against the Dayton subs. I respectfully won't bring his name into the mix here, and having not compared the two systems in the same room - I have no input on the comparison to the 18.1 vs. Dayton vs. SI.

Perhaps someone with a CHT 18.1 driver would send it to Ricci to measure for apples to apples numbers in a sealed box against the Dayton and SI...

Then the chips could fall, whichever way they may --- and the drama could cease...
Edited by Archaea - 10/31/13 at 4:33pm
post #491 of 1882
Yes, the drama is nuts and would live to see all subs tested at some point, ID and DIY. 24's? You never know but let me get this built first. I have only used one high excursion driver so far being the eD 13Av2 and it had great low end in my room. These FI 18's have 30 mm so they should be killer so we will see how much! 4 24's would only have 2 liters of more displacement so 8 would be required for an upgrade unless the FI's rolloff too much which I doubt.

Did I say the minivan has an awesome JBL synthesis system! Ouch, minivan! I hate to admit it but I is a very nice car. Of course not as much fun as the old 600 hp 300 ZX TT I had. This is one of the reasons I can go nuts with the theater as I gave up the sports cars to do so.
post #492 of 1882
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ironhead1230 View Post


Going by displacement alone, a triax would be close to an S2, but looking at the measurements from PSA, it may be less. PSA shows the triax 20-31.5hz CEA average is 117.8db which is 7.8db higher than the SI. That would put it at about 2.45 times a single SI. However, comparing compression sweeps shows the Triax compressing at 10hz around 97-99db and the SI around 91-93db. This would put the triax at about 2.0 SI. My WAG would have the triax slightly lower than the S2, 2.4-2.6

Wow. Great catch ironhead on the compression sweeps. Given that, shouldn't we use closer to the 2.0 SI conversion factor? The 20-31.5hz average has less relevance when you're talking about the 10-20hz octave.

 

EDIT:

If the compression sweeps show the Triax compressing at 10hz at 97-99db...

and the compression sweeps show the SI compressing at 10hz at 91-93db...

and the SI measured a clean CEA of 89.2db@10hz (4db lower than 93db on the compression sweep)

Then perhaps the Triax would be: 99db - 4 = 95db

 

95db is 1.9 SI

 

Looking at it at a completely different way at other high performing 15in drivers designs:

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post
 

Speaking in SI terms @10hz:

 

  • The DIY 15" Driver - AE15HT is .7 SI
  • The SubM has 2 15's, and is estimated at 1.4 SI
  • The Triax has 3 15's which would put it at 2.1 SI (if we looked at the above), but since there is some unknown about it, I just said 2.3 SI

^^^This method puts the Triax around 2.1 SI

 

Giving the Triax the benefit of the doubt at 2.3 SI, would put it at 96.5db@10hz.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ironhead1230 View Post


Going by displacement alone, a triax would be close to an S2, but looking at the measurements from PSA, it may be less. PSA shows the triax 20-31.5hz CEA average is 117.8db which is 7.8db higher than the SI. That would put it at about 2.45 times a single SI. However, comparing compression sweeps shows the Triax compressing at 10hz around 97-99db and the SI around 91-93db. This would put the triax at about 2.0 SI. My WAG would have the triax slightly lower than the S2, 2.4-2.6.
I agree with MK, I think you are underestimating the CHT. A lot of the estimates are not limited to the XMax rating of the driver or limited by distortion.

Ricci mentions that for the Dayton "a value of about 20 mm seeming like a good value for "useful" excursion. The coil contacts the backplate at just past 30 mm inward." For the CHT, "The xmax of the driver is listed as about 19mm one way ... In use the driver would produce this much stroke but the xmech seems to be at almost the same point as the useful excursion."

If you want to keep the CHT below xmech, that would put it a couple mm less excursion than the dayton.
 
MK, can you model the CHT with 17mm of usuable xmax?
 
Ironhead makes a good point about Ricci's observation on the eminence driver. However, would the CEA THD be different as the driver in a vented design approaches its clean xmax limits versus the same driver in a sealed design as it approaches its limits?

Edited by dominguez1 - 11/10/13 at 6:58am
post #493 of 1882
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

Sooooo, how bout them 24's...hitting HT's soon...Good stuff.

Nicely done... :D Got a little too tense there. I value both of those guy's opinions!

post #494 of 1882
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

Perhaps someone with a CHT 18.1 driver would send it to Ricci to measure for apples to apples numbers in a sealed box against the Dayton and SI...

Then the chips could fall, whichever way they may --- and the drama could cease...

In the works...will keep you posted. :cool:

post #495 of 1882
It seems to get lost no matter how many times I say but, when using any of Josh's numbers for DIY or passive commercial subs please note that he uses a $6,000.00 K-10 amplifier connect to a 220V 50Amp line with 11,000 watts of burst… and he uses every drop of it .

When comparing that to a commercial amp with an unknown roll off and -10dB less burst capability, the drivers specs are pretty much pushed down the list for predicting performance.

Feeding a passive version through the K-10 is one thing but, if the signal is properly shaped to feed the sub as part of a system in-room and aimed at a flat FR at the LP, you'll throw the CEA #s right out the window because they're taken one frequency at a time.

In actual use, the L/T will kick in with the CHT drivers much sooner than with any of the other subs being referenced against it because the boost has to happen much higher in frequency.

You simply cannot have both maximum low end and maximum high end at the same time with soundtrack program with ANY driver let alone one that begins to roll off an octave higher.

People who "like how they sound" have no L/T. IOW, they have nowhere near a flat response in-room to below 30 Hz. Relatively, they get all >30 Hz. It's loud and they dig it. Yes, most of us here get it. That proves that it plays loud and some folks like the top heavy presentation.

Here's exactly how I came to that conclusion the moment I saw Chase's first WinISD graph posted in the dIY section:

I've done accurate measurements in my HT for almost a decade. The mic I use does not require a cal file, in fact, it's the mic most used as a reference to create cal files for other mics. The interface was independently tested to be flat to below 4 Hz and is digitally injected into the computer, so I accept the systems roll off, don't use a cal file and I know that the system is dead flat to at least 5 Hz. I also use the best windowing for ULF measurements after a member broke my balls about windowing. So, I can truly compare a system I've measured in-room 10 years ago to one I measured yesterday.

I've also collected other measurements from folks I know have properly set up and measured in their rooms. Those rooms vary from <2000 cubes to > 6000 cubes and vary from typical frame construction to frame with brick veneer construction to masonry construction.

The point is that I have a good idea of what people would call an "average" room gain curve. I also have a very accurate room gain curve that's specific to my particular space, sub placement and listening spot. Once I know the native FR of the sub, I can predict the FR at the LP with a high degree of accuracy.

Since nfraso has given me the native FR of his CHT system, including the systems EQ boost thats built into the amplifier, I can predict the smoothed FR at my LP with a high degree of certainty.

I started with a room gain graph showing 7 known members' room gain profiles that were taken from their subs actual GP measurements and their posted in-room measurements.

I took the average of those room gain curves and placed it on a second graph. I then placed my specific room gain curve on the same graph to show that my room gain curve is close enough to what anyone else might expect barring unforeseen sub placement, LP placement, signal chain roll off differences.

Next, I placed the close mic FR of the sub after L/T signal shaping and I placed the predicted in-room response and actual in-room measured response on the same graph.

Then I added a third graph onto which I placed the average RG curve, my RG curve, the known boosted FR of the CHT sub and a predicted in-room result.



Notice the solid green trace in the 2nd and 3rd graphs. Those are the predicted FRs for both systems (CHT and the one I use these days). If anyone has the time, they can overlay them on the same graph normalized to 60 Hz and see the difference.

In order to build a proper L/T for the CHT sub to mate the result with my room (and most anyone else's room, as the average shows), I would have to build a +20dB L/T boost curve. Since that's pretty much impossible and the system would be useless even if I could build such an L/T, I would have to build a combination L/T and LP shelf. IOW, I'd have to steal some of the top end and give it to the bottom end.

Once I've done that, then I have to be careful what amount of power I feed the sub with so that the amp doesn't shred/melt the driver when I pop in WOTW or HTTYD or HULK, etc and kick the master volume or sub trim to reference level. I would also not want heavy limiters that allow you to think you have a flat response but once the movie starts you end up hearing the limiter-induced naked response. After I correctly size the amp to the driver I would then calculate the # of amp/driver combinations required to stay flat in my room to reference level with a few dB of headroom.

I've done this about 400 times in my room using nearly 100 different drivers in many enclosure volumes and lots of the highest power rated amps available. It's impossible to build a multi-curve L/T device unless you have done this more than once, and if the alternative to taken, which is to buy a generic EQ device and use it to similarly shape the signal, the systems end game performance will be essentially identical.

The CHT sub is no different, nor is it any sort of special challenge in this regard. I know what the L/T LP shelf circuit details are, down to the components values and parts list. I know how many drivers I would need and I know what amplifiers would be best suited to drive the system.

This has zero to do with whether the result is good or bad, IMO, whether or not I "like" the result subjectively or what I might think of the system vs any other system.

Chase, MKT, and the rest of the CHT fan club have been trying to make it about all of that "you have to own one to comment on it" and "lots of people say it's spiffy so you must be a communist" and adding some sinister malice aforethought into the stew to boot, and I wish we could just skip that silliness and look at the facts. It just is what it is and there's little chance my calculations/predictions are incorrect.

The GP sine sweeps and CEA burst tests show how loud a sub will play before the methodology hurts the system and only down to 10 Hz, but they don't tell you what EQing a flat response in-room will require when playing source with serious playback requirements comprised of infinite frequency arrays to 1 Hz encoded above the headroom line of the format with a flat signal chain upstream. They just don't. The only way you know that is buy/build the system and EQ and calibrate it and pop in WOTW and spec lab graph the result.

But, predicting what's required to reasonably achieve that given the drivers specs is not some mystery that requires endless debate.
post #496 of 1882
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

I see that Craig now is saying in his forum the INuke DSP 3000 amp is a decent amp to pair his CHT 18.1 subs with.

eek.gif...now, that is just rich.

Quote:
Do you guys remember at the time that the INuke amp was said to be an inferior amp combination to the point of sabotage of the meet results if used with these subs? (despite the sub owner saying it was the best he'd ever heard his subs sound)

How could we ever forget...wow.

Quote:
The bad noises of the CHT were something that HuskerOmaha told me in person at the meet he was able to recognize during the CHT blind audition because he owned a CHT set himself and he knew what that noise they make sounded like.

+1...I think this driver in a sealed box starts to sound bad before the claimed xmax of 19mm.

Quote:
Then the chips could fall, whichever way they may --- and the drama could cease...

Amen to that Archaea...cool.gif
post #497 of 1882
I believe craig still doesn't recommend running the inuke 3000 in 8 ohm stereo, ~300W per channel. Instead he recommends running it 4 ohm bridged, ~2000W.
post #498 of 1882
Thread Starter 

Post 1 Updated - Estimated SI Conversions

  • PSA Triax - Note: 2.3 SI@10hz or 96.5db
  • Chase 18.1, Chase 18.2 - Note: estimated .5 SI b/c of Dayton Amp. Passive could potentially be more.

Edited by dominguez1 - 11/10/13 at 7:13am
post #499 of 1882
Wow you knocked a bit off its calculated SI....why the drastic change?
post #500 of 1882
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

Wow you knocked a bit off its calculated SI....why the drastic change?

Are you referring to the Triax?

 

See post 497 above.

 

With all these estimates, we're getting the best information we can, and then taking a guess (some more educated than others depending on data). Ironhead provided some new info that seemed better than prior info. If comparing to the estimate for the S2, the Triax is around 1.5db difference at 10hz. They are very close.

 

Having said that, these aren't set in stone and I'd be glad to change if anyone can provide more compelling info. :)

 

Remember, these estimates are to help determine each member's ULF perspective (Category) as opposed to getting too fixated around the estimate for a particular sub. Whether the Triax is 2.3 SI or 2.8 SI, it's likely not going to make much of a difference to move your ULF score up or down in the ULF categories.


Edited by dominguez1 - 11/10/13 at 3:07pm
post #501 of 1882
We have a new leader for 10hz with a crazy 12 drivers and one GH in a 1920 cubic foot room, N8DOGG!

He has 4 UXL-18's and 8 21's all sealed and then a GH just for fun! I did not add up his 12-16 hz score but it would probably lead there too!

86 at 10hz!
post #502 of 1882
^ Holy Sh*t that's ridiculous.

Figured my own system to currently be 3.5 stars with a 3 sub score 1219@16hz - SI 2.1 at 16hz.

4 star when I run a 4 sub config 1067@16hz - SI 2.4 at 16hz. At the moment I'm using one of the SVS subs for my office setup, but in the past I would run all 4 in my HT.

Dual Dayton 18" HO's and dual SVS SB12's in a 2300 cu ft. room.
Edited by Spanglo - 11/11/13 at 3:13pm
post #503 of 1882
Quote:
Originally Posted by ironhead1230 View Post

I believe craig still doesn't recommend running the inuke 3000 in 8 ohm stereo, ~300W per channel. Instead he recommends running it 4 ohm bridged, ~2000W.

The bridge mode is the correct way to use the I Nuke 3000 DSP amp with a pair of the subs. Some extra caveats: 1.) subs wired in parallel 2.) Channel A use only(the manual for the I Nuke 3000 DSP state that equal power is output thru Channel A and B in bridge mode which is not my experience). It is relatively easy for someone not familiar with the amp to setup things incorrectly.
post #504 of 1882
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

We have a new leader for 10hz with a crazy 12 drivers and one GH in a 1920 cubic foot room, N8DOGG!

He has 4 UXL-18's and 8 21's all sealed and then a GH just for fun! I did not add up his 12-16 hz score but it would probably lead there too!

86 at 10hz!

What the?!?! Pure insanity! His 16hz score should be in the 50's or so as that's where the GH's sweet spot is!

 

Link please!!! Gotta check this out!

post #505 of 1882
Fun thread. I have 4 x FiCar IB3 18's in just under 4000 cu. ft. (not dedicated theater)

Therefore, at 12.5 Hz I have 4000/(1.6*4)=625

at 10 Hz = 4000/(1.5*4)=667

Just get reference according to this metric.











Edited by SXRDork - 11/12/13 at 10:36am
post #506 of 1882
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SXRDork View Post

Fun thread. I have 4 x FiCar IB3 18's in just under 4000 cu. ft. (not dedicated theater)

Therefore, at 12.5 Hz I have 4000/(1.6*4)=625

at 10 Hz = 4000/(1.5*4)=667

Just get reference according to this metric.










VERY nice setup SXR...love how you integrated the IB as Opposed with each other! Can you please take a video of your Fi's crushing that Sierra Nevada at reference? :D

 

It's a great looking setup with an awesome response. What do you have powering it? Are you holding out for the AT screen + projector?

post #507 of 1882
I guess I will be at a 4 star with a single Triax in a 2176 cubic foot room,,, Correct?
post #508 of 1882
Quote:
Originally Posted by ellisr63 View Post

I guess I will be at a 4 star with a single Triax in a 2176 cubic foot room,,, Correct?

I'm sure you'd be correct. How many SI units are you assigning the Triax?
post #509 of 1882
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

I'm sure you'd be correct. How many SI units are you assigning the Triax?
2.3... That is the 10hz number.
post #510 of 1882
Quote:
Originally Posted by ellisr63 View Post

2.3... That is the 10hz number.

At 946, then a four star system it is. biggrin.gif

Where did the Triax SI number come from. My guess would be, 2.3 is low. I would expect more like 2.7 or 3.0.

...confused.gif

In a room your size, with room gain, at 10Hz, my expectation would be 4.5 stars.

For comparison, the FV15HP equals 1.9 SI. Two FV15HPs, 1200w, is 3.8 SI. A Triax is pushing three custom, high excursion drivers, driven by 4000w.

-
Edited by BeeMan458 - 11/12/13 at 7:12pm
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers › Your Home Theater ULF Score