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Your Home Theater ULF Score - Page 23

post #661 of 1883
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reddig View Post

Be nice to have some volunteers in category 4 and up to do compressions sweeps to see how well they r playing reference. If compressing like crazy at reference is it really reference? Just a thought smile.gif

I've done sweeps, but don't have a calibrated mic that I can see absolute SPL levels. So I can see compression levels for my 2 SIs, but don't know what SPL I'm hitting at 0 MVL.
post #662 of 1883
Quote:
Originally Posted by wth718 View Post

I've done sweeps, but don't have a calibrated mic that I can see absolute SPL levels. So I can see compression levels for my 2 SIs, but don't know what SPL I'm hitting at 0 MVL.
Right on. I need to get a calibrated mic myself. I need to get a laptop too cause all I have is a desktop too far away from my theater room. Suppose to get one for Christmas so by then I can just order a mic and b set.
post #663 of 1883
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahmedreda View Post

In your space (1680 cu ft), if you use 2 of the FV15HP in 1 port mode, you would get 4.5 stars starting at 12.5hz and up unless I am missing something.

Indeed. Not sure what I entered wrong; probably used the 2 port open line.
post #664 of 1883
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reddig View Post

Right on. I need to get a calibrated mic myself. I need to get a laptop too cause all I have is a desktop too far away from my theater room. Suppose to get one for Christmas so by then I can just order a mic and b set.

In our case, nothing that a set of fifty foot cables and a USB phantom power supply couldn't fix. biggrin.gif
post #665 of 1883
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

In our case, nothing that a set of fifty foot cables and a USB phantom power supply couldn't fix. biggrin.gif
Nice that's a good point! Or I could move the desktop downstairs but the wife would flip!! It's actually her Apple iMac desktop and I'm wanting a windows based laptop to put right in my theater room. I got a space on my equipment rack for it. You right tho there's always a workaround! smile.gif
post #666 of 1883
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reddig View Post

Nice that's a good point! Or I could move the desktop downstairs but the wife would flip!! It's actually her Apple iMac desktop and I'm wanting a windows based laptop to put right in my theater room. I got a space on my equipment rack for it. You right tho there's always a workaround! smile.gif

I have a desktop so I had to go with the "workaround." biggrin.gif
post #667 of 1883
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

I have a desktop so I had to go with the "workaround." biggrin.gif
Nice man. In my case I'd get so frustrated running up and down the stairs lol. Good exercise tho right lol.
post #668 of 1883
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reddig View Post

Nice man. In my case I'd get so frustrated running up and down the stairs lol. Good exercise tho right lol.

Any and all we can get.
post #669 of 1883
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Any and all we can get.
Lol! Ain't that the truth!
post #670 of 1883
I can't get the XLS form to work, can someone plug in a my numbers so I can see what my score is?

Room is 1650^2 (sealed), sub is a single PC12+ in 16hz tune if that matters.

Thanks, much appreciated.
post #671 of 1883
I can't get it to work either. It won't take any numbers.
Am I doing something wrong?

Thanks,
Moto
post #672 of 1883
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kini62 View Post

I can't get the XLS form to work, can someone plug in a my numbers so I can see what my score is?

Room is 1650^2 (sealed), sub is a single PC12+ in 16hz tune if that matters.

Thanks, much appreciated.

This gives reference output at 16 and 20 Hz, with 0.5 SI at 12.5 Hz, 1.6 SI at 16 Hz and 1.3 SI at 20 Hz. 2.5 stars, 4.0 and 4.0 stars respectively, making your setup a 4-star system.
post #673 of 1883
Quote:
Originally Posted by MX48 View Post

I can't get it to work either. It won't take any numbers.
Am I doing something wrong?

Thanks,
Moto

Maybe the file is open in read only mode?
post #674 of 1883
It says "Compatibility Mode" at the top.
post #675 of 1883
I was looking for the CEA numbers for the S1 and S2 online and couldn't find anything.

I see you are using Josh's numbers for the DIY UXL. What amp did the UXL have in testing? The UXL box is substantially bigger (5 inches deeper). Seem like based on this the rating of the S1 and S2 would be overstated (unless the UXL was used with a much less powerful amp).
post #676 of 1883
Quote:
Originally Posted by neutro View Post

This gives reference output at 16 and 20 Hz, with 0.5 SI at 12.5 Hz, 1.6 SI at 16 Hz and 1.3 SI at 20 Hz. 2.5 stars, 4.0 and 4.0 stars respectively, making your setup a 4-star system.

Mahalo!

I'll take that rating. I can't even imagine what a 5 star system sounds like. eek.gif
post #677 of 1883
I'm stuck on the question, how low is low? What is realistic and what are bragging rights? There's nothing wrong with bragging rights but I'm totally in the dark regarding the benefit of a 10Hz system vs a 12.5Hz or 16Hz, reference capable system.

At reference, how low do we need to go so we're not missing "important" content? Where does the sonic line start to get fuzzy?
post #678 of 1883
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

I'm stuck on the question, how low is low? What is realistic and what are bragging rights? There's nothing wrong with bragging rights but I'm totally in the dark regarding the benefit of a 10Hz system vs a 12.5Hz or 16Hz, reference capable system.

At reference, how low do we need to go so we're not missing "important" content? Where does the sonic line start to get fuzzy?

I would say 5hz is ideally where one wants to be. However unless you have the coin and space to put enough subwoofage in your room to get there(with reference capability in mind), you are chasing a pipe dream. Again, a clean 16hz reference capable system is better then a system that will extend below 10hz but will not reach reference below 20hz. Your not going to do any better then the FV15HP's with your budget for a turnkey setup. Now quit second guessing yourself, log off, and dont come back until you purchased the damn subs already. tongue.gif
post #679 of 1883
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kini62 View Post

Mahalo!

I'll take that rating. I can't even imagine what a 5 star system sounds like. eek.gif

kini.. You in Hawaii bro? I'm in Honolulu. When I get my quad S2 setup you can come over for a demo..
post #680 of 1883
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

Now quit second guessing yourself,...

I'm not second guessing myself. It's just a question I've never read a decent answer to.

As to my choice of the FV15HP, thanks in great part to your assistance, that choice is as solid of a choice as I'm going find. In my opinion, our situation, there isn't a better choice. I've looked at Klipsch, Seaton/Funk, Martin Logan, Hsu, SVS, PSA and Rythmik. For various reasons, Caps and DIY are out and the other alternatives, never lit my fire. So in my opinion, there's no point in looking further. Color me in love.

I'm just looking for an answer to the question so I know where my choice will stand as there's nothing I can do at this point except make the call and say; "I do."

(and no, by asking this question, I'm not preparing the field with the seeds of future discontent )

Can you or anybody offer any insight, into my question?

Quote:
... log off, and dont come back until you purchased the damn subs already. tongue.gif

Sure. Like that's going happen. tongue.gif

-
Edited by BeeMan458 - 11/23/13 at 9:31am
post #681 of 1883
Quote:
Originally Posted by raynist View Post

I was looking for the CEA numbers for the S1 and S2 online and couldn't find anything.

I see you are using Josh's numbers for the DIY UXL. What amp did the UXL have in testing? The UXL box is substantially bigger (5 inches deeper). Seem like based on this the rating of the S1 and S2 would be overstated (unless the UXL was used with a much less powerful amp).

JTR hasn't released CEA numbers and they haven't been tested by a third party. You are correct, the numbers are based off of the UXL. The UXL and JTR driver have about the same excursion. The JTR boxes are smaller, but it was assumed the S1 and S2 are not amp limited in the lower frequencies, but are excursion limited. If you look at the UXL measurements, the 93V sweep has about the same output as the CEA limited numbers at 20hz and below. That comes out to about 1700-1900 watts. Even if the JTRs need more power because of the smaller boxes, it should still be well within what the speakerpower amp in the JTRs can output. So even though Josh used a more powerful amp in his testing of the UXL, he did not use all of that power to achieve the numbers 20hz and under.
post #682 of 1883
Thread Starter 

Post 1 Updated - Version 12.3 of the ULF Calculator

  • Updated the Category Chart
  • Changed the excel version from an .xls file to a .xlsx file. Hopefully this will help with compatibility problems.
post #683 of 1883
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

I'm stuck on the question, how low is low? What is realistic and what are bragging rights? There's nothing wrong with bragging rights but I'm totally in the dark regarding the benefit of a 10Hz system vs a 12.5Hz or 16Hz, reference capable system.

At reference, how low do we need to go so we're not missing "important" content? Where does the sonic line start to get fuzzy?
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by "BeeMan458" View Post

I'm not second guessing myself. It's just a question I've never read a decent answer to.

As to my choice of the FV15HP, thanks in great part to your assistance, that choice is as solid of a choice as I'm going find. In my opinion, our situation, there isn't a better choice. I've looked at Klipsch, Seaton/Funk, Martin Logan, Hsu, SVS, PSA and Rythmik. For various reasons, Caps and DIY are out and the other alternatives, never lit my fire. So in my opinion, there's no point in looking further. Color me in love.

I'm just looking for an answer to the question so I know where my choice will stand as there's nothing I can do at this point except make the call and say; "I do."

(and no, by asking this question, I'm not preparing the field with the seeds of future discontent )

Can you or anybody offer any insight, into my question?
Sure. Like that's going happen. tongue.gif

-

In my experience, ULF perception is highly dependent on the room and sub placement in the room. I've been over to another members room where we had a similar ULF score, both on a concrete slab, but the ULF perception was much more prevalent in my room. At first I thought it was the nearfield placement of my FV15HPs that could explain it. So I sat right next to his huge XXX Ported sub that Ricci built and played more demos. The ULF perception was better right next to it, but it was still not as strong as as the perception in my room. Generally speaking, here's my personal observations:
 

  • 16hz and up perception is pretty consistent across rooms
  • 10-15z perception is very room dependent
  • below 10hz is room and people dependent (folks perceive the very low stuff differently)


Suspended floors are better for ULF perception compared to concrete, but is harder to get high levels of ULF because of the transmission loss (compared to concrete).

So unfortunately, it's tough to see 'if it's worth it' simply because there are other factors involved IMO for ULF perception. I will say though, for those that have the rooms and subs where you can perceive it, it is worth it. biggrin.gif 


Edited by dominguez1 - 11/23/13 at 10:10am
post #684 of 1883
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhed View Post

kini.. You in Hawaii bro? I'm in Honolulu. When I get my quad S2 setup you can come over for a demo..

Big island.

If I ever get to Oahu I'll shoot you a pm. I try to avoid Oahu though. smile.gif
post #685 of 1883
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

I'm stuck on the question, how low is low? What is realistic and what are bragging rights? There's nothing wrong with bragging rights but I'm totally in the dark regarding the benefit of a 10Hz system vs a 12.5Hz or 16Hz, reference capable system.

At reference, how low do we need to go so we're not missing "important" content? Where does the sonic line start to get fuzzy?

I think some people need to come back to reality with regards to sub extension and output. You don't need 120db at 0hz to have a reference sounding system. Anything below 20hz is wonderful. It'll sound amazing.


Some people just like to say they have it. If you're getting output in the teens, you're good to go.
post #686 of 1883
"I think some people need to come back to reality with regards to sub extension and output. You don't need 120db at 0hz to have a reference sounding system. Anything below 20hz is wonderful. It'll sound amazing. Some people just like to say they have it. If you're getting output in the teens, you're good to go."

I agree that is true for most, but I disagree with part of what you say. I don't try for sub-10hz extension, but significant output between 15-30hz is what takes music and film to the next level for me. It's not like there has to be 120db+ at 15hz all the time, just when it counts.



Here's mine: Dual Gjallarhorns in my 2781cu ft room - score of 131.18 at 16hz.
Edited by d_c - 11/23/13 at 3:34pm
post #687 of 1883
Thank you dominguez1. Your comment answers the question, if it's worth it or not but doesn't respond to my questions. If you will allow me, knowing that you're a sincere individual. If I might ask you to please read over my questions and respond directly to each question. I do my best to carefully craft my questions and responding directly to each question will go a long way in helping me with my understanding. I really am this dense and slow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by saprano View Post

I think some people need to come back to reality...

My question is a question of curiosity, not a question of reality. Have you ever pondered this question? If you have, do you have anything that will help me with my questions?
post #688 of 1883
Hey Dom what is the optimum box size WinISD recommends for the RE XXX?
post #689 of 1883
Thread Starter 
Not sure if this is the answer to your question...but mk uses .707 for the sims. Mk, is this right?

Good to hear from you madaeel. smile.gif

Do you have something in the works?
post #690 of 1883
Quote:
Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post

Not sure if this is the answer to your question...but mk uses .707 for the sims. Mk, is this right?

Good to hear from you madaeel. smile.gif

Do you have something in the works?

Yah I like the thread Dom. You always come up with some great ideas. Wish I lived a little closer to hear those 21's.

No I meant I saw your numbers for the XXX say it's 8.5db at 10hz over the SI but it says in an optimal box. I know Josh always said its numbers from DB would be higher with a larger box so I was just wondering what box size WinISD gave you for those numbers. I take it you meant with the Qtc at .707?

I'm actually waiting to hear from someone who might be able to build me something custom if all goes well and if not I'm probably gonna go with RE XXX 15's(8) or 18's(4). The basement is nearing completion so hopefully it won't be long.
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