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If you had $5000 to spend on subs and speakers what would you do ? - Page 4

post #91 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Sorel View Post




Have you, or anyone else, had a chance to directly compare the best in DIY (I am assuming SEOS will be involved) to the commercial units I mentioned? Or any other high performing commercial speakers in the same price range?

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1468211/ne-spring-speaker-shootout-results-thread-april-13-2013

This is a lot to wade through, but there are some fairly good subjective/anecdotal comparisons. The SEOS builds get, for the most part, high marks.

Willie
post #92 of 172
I have not heard those speakers and it would be impossible to hear every commercial option and / or DIY option. But when you've heard many speakers, measured many speakers, compared many speakers, you start to recognize where the value is.

When a magazine like Home Theatre brags about the SQ of a speaker I have to laugh. I don't even flip the cover of that mag anymore. Every speaker is a revelation. This just isn't true. Often when mags and forum members hear a new speaker they are blown away. They are actually in a honeymoon phase and being tricked by the speakers sexy looks or something. The truth is, a speaker can only get so good. If it faithfully reproduces the recording, there is nothing better. Nothing. Now you say "well Ryan no speaker does that". Ok true. But there are plenty of speakers that come very close. They have flat FR. Uniform off axis response. Low distortion. free of compression. extended response in the bass and treble. linear drivers. and We have rooms that are well behaved. These aren't perfect speakers, but they're actually getting pretty close.

This makes speaker designing boring sometimes because you rarely perceive an improvement. When you do, it's often overstated, like the mags do.

Sort of reminds me of Bass Addict's speaker build. Everyone was hyped up about. Including me. I even said his jaw would break when it fell on the floor so hard. Well, turns out he claims there's an improvement, but its subtle and not really worth the extra money spent. Shocker? Actually not. It only gets so good. There's no magical formula out there we're all waiting to find. It's already recorded on the disc and its only that good.

So now to get to the point of your post. Is the SVS and golden ear speakers that good? No they're not. I've seen Home theaters measurements and they're nothing special. There's nothing inherent in the design that's ground breaking or special. Will the SEOS smash them. Probably not. Will they be better. Depends. If you play loud then ya the SEOS will be better. And if you have a lively room the SEOS will be better. If you like clean dynamics the SEOS will be better. If you like a flat FR then most of the SEOS designs will be better. So what's bad about the SEOS? It's big.

As for your current speakers. They're probably very good. I suggest you listen to a variety of speakers before deciding you need an upgrade. I've never heard a unity but I've heard many full rangers and coaxials. And there's something quite good about point source sound. So probably a good speaker you have.
post #93 of 172
What I did (purchased but not yet installed):

3 used Yorkville U15 Unity for LCR - $1120
6 new JBL 322C for Surround - $1105
4 new FI IB18's for primary IB Bass - $825
8 new SI HT18's for 'MOAR' biggrin.gif IB Bass - $1325

Add in a $200-$300 for IB manifold/surround speaker enclosure construction materials and it's $300 or so under the $5K limit.

A budget-busting addition I'm considering right now is some Altec 815A front-loaded horn enclosures that are tempting me locally -- 3 of these loaded with my 6 JBL 2226J 15's would add some killer midbass to supplement the U15's! -- would add $1K to the total.

I find it very hard to beat the Yorkvilles for what you can get them for. There is a seller on eBay that currently has two pair of U215's (same as U15 + another 15" driver) listed for $1000/pr. starting bid, $1400/pr. Buy It Now (with free shipping; which is a strong plus as they are 115 lbs. apiece!). Great deal if you ask me...all the usual eBay caveats apply, but I've had amazing luck buying on there. Gorilla83 runs U215's and loves them (as did most everybody who heard them at the NE GTG).

Bang-for-the-buck is what drives me. If you're diligent you can find some great deals out there!

Speaking of deals, ChopShop1 is one state away from you and has 3 completed SEOS Sentinels listed in the Classifieds for $900; not sure if they are still available or not though as the listing hasn't been updated in months.

As others have stated, the SEOS should be a strong contender -- you couldn't support a better cause. smile.gif
post #94 of 172
Quote:
So now to get to the point of your post. Is the SVS and golden ear speakers that good? No they're not. I've seen Home theaters measurements and they're nothing special. There's nothing inherent in the design that's ground breaking or special.
Yeah, that makes sense. HT seems to be praising an awful lot of speakers these days. I was just wondering if things were changing rapidly in the speaker world and commercial speakers were getting a LOT better than they were 10 years ago or if HT is just raving about middle of the road setups.
Quote:
Will the SEOS smash them. Probably not. Will they be better. Depends. If you play loud then ya the SEOS will be better. And if you have a lively room the SEOS will be better. If you like clean dynamics the SEOS will be better. If you like a flat FR then most of the SEOS designs will be better. So what's bad about the SEOS? It's big.
Isn't SEOS just a constant directivity horn? My Unity's are constant directivity and they are to this day the finest speakers I have ever heard, but then again, I am not going from place to place to hear all the latest and greatest speakers available. And like I said, after owning these for about 10 years, I have become conscious of a slight horn "honkiness" that makes me want to try something new, or at least listen to something new. Maybe SEOS is better..I will have to do some research.

BTW, what is considered the very best SEOS design out there, assuming that I already have some subs that can handle the 80 hz and below frequencies, so I don't need the design to be full range?
post #95 of 172
the big one with the bms coaxial compression driver and crossover point down around 400hz.
post #96 of 172
Thread Starter 
Which tweeter can you cross over at 400hz?


That seems low. Are you joking or serious ?
post #97 of 172
post #98 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Sorel View Post

Yeah, that makes sense. HT seems to be praising an awful lot of speakers these days. I was just wondering if things were changing rapidly in the speaker world and commercial speakers were getting a LOT better than they were 10 years ago or if HT is just raving about middle of the road setups.
Isn't SEOS just a constant directivity horn? My Unity's are constant directivity and they are to this day the finest speakers I have ever heard, but then again, I am not going from place to place to hear all the latest and greatest speakers available. And like I said, after owning these for about 10 years, I have become conscious of a slight horn "honkiness" that makes me want to try something new, or at least listen to something new. Maybe SEOS is better..I will have to do some research.

BTW, what is considered the very best SEOS design out there, assuming that I already have some subs that can handle the 80 hz and below frequencies, so I don't need the design to be full range?

Keep your speakers, you are not missing anything.
post #99 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

Which tweeter can you cross over at 400hz?


That seems low. Are you joking or serious ?

Mfusick,

The BMS coaxial compression drivers are more than tweeters...they utilize separate midrange and tweeter drivers combined into one assembly...a pretty unique approach. BMS rates the mid's frequency range as 300-7000 Hz and the tweeter's as 6000-22000 Hz with a factory recommended crossover of 6300 Hz. The 1.4" throat 4593 (or 4594) are what's in the JTR Noesis that you may have noticed is getting quite a bit of press these days.
post #100 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Sorel View Post


BTW, what is considered the very best SEOS design out there, assuming that I already have some subs that can handle the 80 hz and below frequencies, so I don't need the design to be full range?

im not sure there is a "best" most of the designs out there now are around the 12" horn, and chop has his 24" horn mega mains

there are 15" and a18" horns coming as well as smaller ones.
post #101 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Sorel 

Yeah, that makes sense. HT seems to be praising an awful lot of speakers these days. I was just wondering if things were changing rapidly in the speaker world and commercial speakers were getting a LOT better than they were 10 years ago or if HT is just raving about middle of the road setups.
Isn't SEOS just a constant directivity horn? My Unity's are constant directivity and they are to this day the finest speakers I have ever heard, but then again, I am not going from place to place to hear all the latest and greatest speakers available. And like I said, after owning these for about 10 years, I have become conscious of a slight horn "honkiness" that makes me want to try something new, or at least listen to something new. Maybe SEOS is better..I will have to do some research.

BTW, what is considered the very best SEOS design out there, assuming that I already have some subs that can handle the 80 hz and below frequencies, so I don't need the design to be full range?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Keep your speakers, you are not missing anything.

Agree.

Tom has refined the concept in his Synergy line, but the original Unities are still a very special speaker. The SEOS project has a great lineup of waveguides with different capabilities (the largest is a 24" that is said to hold pattern down to 500 Hz), but the point source presentation of your Unities definitely have some magic about them. smile.gif
post #102 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Sorel View Post

BTW, what is considered the very best SEOS design out there, assuming that I already have some subs that can handle the 80 hz and below frequencies, so I don't need the design to be full range?

Hi Bob. Well, Bill Waslo's Acoustic Elegance TD12M design of course! tongue.gif

I'm crossing mine to subs at 80Hz. I designed the enclosure with an F3 of 80Hz, tuned to ~50Hz. The driver is in 1ft.^3. LTD02 nicknamed them SEOS-THX. cool.gif

Really though, there could be some people in your area you could arrange an audition. There are many designs out there from Jeff Bagby, Matt G., tuxedocivic, Bill Waslo. Check out the diy sound group forums under seos designs.

-Nate

Edit to add: I really want to build some diy Synergy or Unity horns! Too many projects atm.
post #103 of 172
Hey Bob, my comment comparing the SEOS speakers was comparing to the golden ear speakers. Not your unity horns. Your unitys could easily be better. Just to clarify.
post #104 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Sorel View Post

I am currently using 7 of Tom Danley's original Unity Horns which he designed about 10 years ago - Lambda 12 TDM woofer, constant directivity wooden horn utilizing 4 midrange drivers mounted on the 4 horn sides, and a compression tweeter, with passive crossovers designed by Nick McKinney and Mark Seaton. Are the new designs (SEOS and Pi) any better than what I already have, or are they just lower cost solutions that perform the same, or are the Unity Horns still as good of a design as they were 10 years ago?
I have the same Unity's, except active with AE TD15X drivers, and have 3 way Ewaves, also active. The Unity's are better all round. I have also heard William's system and it is truly excellent, one of the 2 best systems I have ever heard, including a couple of systems that have several hundered $k invested in 'audiophile' parts. I think you are going to have to go a long way to better them, and the typical cone/dome is not going to do it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Sorel View Post

My only complaint is that after all of these years I *think* I can hear a slight horn honkiness in the center channel during movie dialog which I can not remove through EQ. I really don't know for sure, though, as I have no other speakers to try out in the center channel to see if this "honkiness" is in the recordings or if it is indeed coming from the horn itself.
I have never heard this.
post #105 of 172
Quote:
The SEOS project has a great lineup of waveguides with different capabilities (the largest is a 24" that is said to hold pattern down to 500 Hz),
Quote:
im not sure there is a "best" most of the designs out there now are around the 12" horn, and chop has his 24" horn mega mains
there are 15" and a18" horns coming as well as smaller ones.
I think that molding CD horns is a great idea and should have been done years ago. Building them out of wood is a PITA for sure...rolleyes.gif
Quote:
Hi Bob. Well, Bill Waslo's Acoustic Elegance TD12M design of course!
I assume that AE's TD12M is the same speaker (12" version) as my Lambda TD15M, right? It is really a great midbass driver and has served me well over the years.
Quote:
Hey Bob, my comment comparing the SEOS speakers was comparing to the golden ear speakers. Not your unity horns. Your unitys could easily be better. Just to clarify.
Gotcha. Without even hearing them, I now have a distinct feeling that I would be disappointed by the SVS and GoldenEar speakers once I got them home. That's why I wanted to talk with you guys.

Since I have been in a building mood lately, as evidenced by the new sub I am building despite the fact that I really don't need one biggrin.gif , I think that perhaps I will see if I can find a high quality SEOS MTM design to try out as a center speaker, just for kicks. The prices I have been seeing over at DIY Sound Group are unbelievably low, so it would not be that big of an investment, and I would get a feel for how well SEOS compares to the Unities, and whether or not I can still hear the horn honkiness.

A note on the horn honkiness: I am being very very picky here. I don't want people to start thinking that the honkiness I am talking about is a big deal. Most people who have listened to my speakers think I am crazy, as they cannot hear what I *think* I hear.

But I think it would be a fun project to build a new SEOS center speaker, though the only one I found so far utilizes 8" drivers. I would like something with at least 12" drivers, and 15" (in order to match my current configuration) would be even better. Anyone know of such a project?

@Mfusick - If these SEOS designs are even half as good as my Unities, then the value represented will be outstanding and very hard to beat. The pluses of these types of designs are:

1. High sensitivity - My Unities are rated at ~101db
2. High power handling - even though they require very little power, they can also handle great amounts of power and still remain VERY clean. I am powering mine with 250 wpc RMS and can crank them without a hint of distortion. Depending on the midbass driver you choose for your SEOS design, I assume that the same could be done with them.
3. Virtually no compression with very high dynamic range. Some of the movie tracks I have listened to have scared me to the point that I could not believe that the speakers could survive the transitions (like in Super 8) from quiet to loud passages, with virtually no compression, but they did...biggrin.gif
4. CR horns (or waveguides as they are now called) have a much bigger sweet spot. They sound the same just about anywhere in the room except the extreme corners.
5. Oh, and let's not forget how cheap and easy they are to build!

Of course I am just speculating that SEOS is that good, but based on the design concept, it should be. I will be glad to report back once I build a SEOS speaker myself and have the opportunity to evaluate it properly.
post #106 of 172
Quote:
I have the same Unity's, except active with AE TD15X drivers, and have 3 way Ewaves, also active.
My mistake...My Lambdas are TD15Ms, not TD12Ms...I don't know what I was thinking...rolleyes.gif
Quote:
I have never heard this.
Please see my post above. I don't know for sure that it is there or just in my head...no one else can hear it.
post #107 of 172
"I am being very very picky here."

if you think that there is something unnatural about them, then there probably is.

cowan experimented with several networks, are you running the same that he is or something else?
post #108 of 172
Tux has a MTM design however it uses a smaller horn and driver

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1479331/a-3-way-99db-multi-configurable-seos-design/0_100

the "Mega Mains" that Chop is building are thew 24" horn with a 15" woofer above and below in MTM format, i think hes using TD15's of some kind
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1457166/s-e-o-s-r-mega-build/700_100

I dont know of anyone who has a MTM designed with the 12" SEOS and 12s of 15s. there may be but those are the only 2 i can think of
post #109 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Sorel View Post

My only complaint is that after all of these years I *think* I can hear a slight horn honkiness in the center channel during movie dialog which I can not remove through EQ. I really don't know for sure, though, as I have no other speakers to try out in the center channel to see if this "honkiness" is in the recordings or if it is indeed coming from the horn itself.

Instead of setting aside elite-caliber speakers, there are things you can do with the bones you have that might yield improvements in that area.

How is your horn terminated? Start with new cabinets that have big roundovers. Then, experiment with foam in the mouth, or felt on the edges. Also, perhaps take some good measurements and play with the crossover.

I bet the first will do the most good, though. "Horn honk" is very often diffraction related, and a smooth mouth termination could be a big help there.
post #110 of 172
Quote:
if you think that there is something unnatural about them, then there probably is.
Yeah, but I can only hear it in the center speaker. I wonder if it has anything to do with the MTM configuration of that one speaker, and its position on the floor angled slightly upward. The rest of the speakers sound very natural to me.
Quote:
cowan experimented with several networks, are you running the same that he is or something else?
I am not sure which version he is using, but I am using the latest iteration that was available back then, and then Mark Seaton tweaked it for me even further.
Quote:
How is your horn terminated? Start with new cabinets that have big roundovers. Then, experiment with foam in the mouth, or felt on the edges. Also, perhaps take some good measurements and play with the crossover.

I bet the first will do the most good, though. "Horn honk" is very often diffraction related, and a smooth mouth termination could be a big help there.
My horns are built into a square box, but I did not round over the edges because I thought that it might effect the horn negatively. It would be no big deal to round over all of the edges, though, if you think that it might help.
Quote:
"Horn honk" is very often diffraction related, and a smooth mouth termination could be a big help there.
Thanks! That is good information to know. I think you could be right...I might have some diffraction issues that need resolving. I am going to look into this more.
post #111 of 172
Thread Starter 
So since I have no speakers ...which ones ?

What would you choose from SEOS lineup ? Is there better option elsewhere ?
post #112 of 172
That's a huge question Mfusik. Many variables at play. We were all offering the $5k we'd spend. I know my recommendation was based on my room and that I use a wall for my enclosure and AT screen. So I went with slender LCRs and flexible placement subs. But you might be in a totally different situation.

If you want an of the shelf SEOS design and can spare the room, I think the sentinel is where it's at. But I haven't heard them personally. Just based on specs and user reviews.
post #113 of 172
one of the non-stockers is probably the best performer, either the td12m, td15m, or 2226h woofer. plans for each are floating around.
post #114 of 172
You need to take a trip so I can show you that spending lots is not necessary! Of course I need to get my room back together! You have to realize that many of these choices are lateral moves from one another meaning that in a crowd half might like one speaker and half the other. They all will play great, the difference or best will depend on you! There are people who like synergy horns over JTRs, Yorkvilles over JTRs, JTRs over both, Seos over JTRs, JTRs over seos, Klipsch over JTRs, vice versa, JBL over danley, etc... You tell me which is best! All of them will play reference but the differences in each and what you prefer is about you. Out of all the speakers I have heard I prefer the BFM speakers as it gives me the most dynamic live sound I have heard. I have not heard a synergy, Yorkville, or Noesis. So the best one is the one that we own as that is why we own them, until we hear better. IMHO I would think the best speakers are Synergy horns or something like that Octagon which is really cool! How much better and worth the cost is the main question.
post #115 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trepidati0n View Post

How big is your HT? I've bouncing back and forth between DIY and "premade but on sale" quite a bit. The ones you listed popped up on my radar a few times already. Only reason I keep going back to SEOS is keep getting this knot in my stomach that per $ spent...I won't find much better.

Well the first thing to realize with me is I don't play the "spl game". Some try to pretend they don't either but many are much more honest about it: they want a speaker that can play back 130+ dbs. Not my gig and almost completely unneeded in most rooms with most people. Key word: most.

My room's about 15 x 17 and I'm no more than 10 feet from any one of my 11 91db sens speakers. They playback as loudly and cleanly as just about anyone can stand....especially so crossed at ~80hz. You have to understand that with just 20 watts of input there are MANY well-made bookshelf speakers that can take care of business when properly mated to a subwoofer...we're talking 95+dbs in my case at anywhere in the room. More is available of course, but at some point you realize 100dbs is pretty fkn loud in this part of the spectrum.

I ask/ed the same question you are: what can be done for $175 per speaker? I need ELEVEN so it's not exactly a 3 day project. I like DIY but it's just not in me for this kind of undertaking right now when I can get such great sound just opening a box. They look perfectly fine to me, too.

Good luck. Try and listen to them somewhere first.

James
Edited by mastermaybe - 9/6/13 at 5:47am
post #116 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Sorel View Post

Clearly (or at least to me) DIY subwoofers are a must in order to maximize the price/performance ratio, BUT...

In regard to bookshelf or full range speakers, how about the commercial offerings from SVS and GoldenEar Technology? It seems that Home Theater magazine has been pretty impressed by both of these companies, so I wonder how much higher of a price/performance ratio we can get from DIY designs when outsourcing designs to China yields such good results at such "low" prices to the end user. Has anyone had the opportunity to compare either of these products to similarly priced DIY builds?

Basically I am suggesting that spending $1k to $2k on the extreme low end would be the way that I would go, but I would think about it a lot before spending the other $3k to $4k building main and surround speakers. I have built about a dozen subs so far (my latest sealed enclosure with dual 15" HE-15 drivers opposing each other is almost done smile.gif ), and I built another 14 main/surround speakers, but things have changed so much over the years that I would really like to know if all of the time and effort will yield significantly better results than simply spending the same amount of money on commercially built units. If you really *enjoy* building speakers, wiring crossovers, etc. then that is one thing to consider, but I am not the world's best woodworker and I don't particularly enjoy wearing face masks and goggles and getting MDF dust all over everything. I build subs and have built speakers simply because I could not attain anything remotely close to the same quality in commercial offerings without spending a LOT more money. This was about 10 years ago...I wonder if things are the same now or if outsourcing to China has tightened the gap on price/performance ratios to the point that DIY speaker building is no longer the tremendous value that it has been in the past.

Agree or disagree?

One of the most coherent, measured, and sensible posts I've read in a good while.

thanks.

James
post #117 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

one of the non-stockers is probably the best performer, either the td12m, td15m, or 2226h woofer. plans for each are floating around.

This. If you're after really, really, good midrange capabilities definately.

Also, the Fusion-12 Tempests. MrSmithers built both the Tempests and the bwaslo TD12M and compared both, shoot him a pm.
post #118 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post

I have not heard those speakers and it would be impossible to hear every commercial option and / or DIY option. But when you've heard many speakers, measured many speakers, compared many speakers, you start to recognize where the value is.

When a magazine like Home Theatre brags about the SQ of a speaker I have to laugh. I don't even flip the cover of that mag anymore. Every speaker is a revelation. This just isn't true. Often when mags and forum members hear a new speaker they are blown away. They are actually in a honeymoon phase and being tricked by the speakers sexy looks or something. The truth is, a speaker can only get so good. If it faithfully reproduces the recording, there is nothing better. Nothing. Now you say "well Ryan no speaker does that". Ok true. But there are plenty of speakers that come very close. They have flat FR. Uniform off axis response. Low distortion. free of compression. extended response in the bass and treble. linear drivers. and We have rooms that are well behaved. These aren't perfect speakers, but they're actually getting pretty close.

This makes speaker designing boring sometimes because you rarely perceive an improvement. When you do, it's often overstated, like the mags do.

Sort of reminds me of Bass Addict's speaker build. Everyone was hyped up about. Including me. I even said his jaw would break when it fell on the floor so hard. Well, turns out he claims there's an improvement, but its subtle and not really worth the extra money spent. Shocker? Actually not. It only gets so good. There's no magical formula out there we're all waiting to find. It's already recorded on the disc and its only that good.

So now to get to the point of your post. Is the SVS and golden ear speakers that good? No they're not. I've seen Home theaters measurements and they're nothing special. There's nothing inherent in the design that's ground breaking or special. Will the SEOS smash them. Probably not. Will they be better. Depends. If you play loud then ya the SEOS will be better. And if you have a lively room the SEOS will be better. If you like clean dynamics the SEOS will be better. If you like a flat FR then most of the SEOS designs will be better. So what's bad about the SEOS? It's big.

As for your current speakers. They're probably very good. I suggest you listen to a variety of speakers before deciding you need an upgrade. I've never heard a unity but I've heard many full rangers and coaxials. And there's something quite good about point source sound. So probably a good speaker you have.

Another great post and this is what it's been all about for me for YEARS. I've heard no short of 100 pairs of loudspeakers at length over the last 15 years and what strikes me MOST about what I hear is how they all sound much more similar, than different. Does mean every one of them sound identical? Well no, but then you have to start considering much more than the speaker themselves in the first place, starting with the very room they are/were in.

In defense of the mags, I give them a bit of leeway: in a fast-dying genre, they have a LOT of "angles" to cover, not the least of which is producing "interesting" script that may help sell some of the product their livelihood is propped up upon. Take that however you wish. tongue.gifwink.gif I will say that I actually think a lot of the "thesaurus talk" has actually lightened a bit over the last few years with many of them (thank god). YMMV.

Back on the speaker-side, I don't rant on and on about the DT SM 450's because I think they're the greatest speaker made, but rather because I think they sound fantastic, can produce a pretty life-like spl in most rooms when properly crossed, and look good...for $175 a piece. And backed by a company known for outstanding customer service. Where can you go wrong?

And in that light, I think the SEOS are great for the same reason: great value for a speaker that sounds great...PLUS has the added SPL that some either want or need. Cool, then. A bit more work and time then some have or want to expend- and you may not end up with 5, 7. or 11 great looking cabs, but at least it's an option.

Speaker bashing and raving definitely wore thin with me eons ago. The fact of the matter is you can spend foolishly on just about anything, loudspeakers included, but there are hundreds of great options out there that offer sublime sound and value if people care enough to seek them out.

James
Edited by mastermaybe - 9/4/13 at 10:34am
post #119 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Sorel View Post

My horns are built into a square box, but I did not round over the edges because I thought that it might effect the horn negatively. It would be no big deal to round over all of the edges, though, if you think that it might help.

A quick n' dirty way to test this is to buy the thickest cheap quarter-round molding you can find at your local Home Depot, tape two pieces together to make a half-round (or three if the third will wrap around your cabinet) and attach them to your cabinet temporarily.
post #120 of 172
Quote:
Well the first thing to realize with me is I don't play the "spl game". Some try to pretend they don't either but many are much more honest about it: they want a speaker that can play back 130+ dbs. Not my gig and almost completely unneeded in most rooms with most people. Key word: most.
I guess I "sort of" fall into the category of one who plays the SPL game, but let me explain: I listen at what I consider loud levels, reference for the most part, or maybe a touch below. I don't listen at excruciating levels despite the fact that many people believed so in the past. What concerns me is not the ability for a speaker to play super loud all of the time, but rather the dynamics of the system as a whole. There are passages in movies that are meant to scare the crap out of you, or otherwise excite you - sudden crashes, unexpected bombs, sub bass sounds, etc., and these passages are purposely recorded very "hot" in comparison to even something like reference level. If your system is good only up to reference level, then the extreme dynamics don't sound as extreme as they are meant to be, and for me personally, this is a let down. Speakers that can achieve those higher than normal levels without signs of dynamic compression (is "thermal compression" the correct term here?) can play back those rare, but oh so important passages with full impact, and the ability to do so can not be overstated.

I believe this to be true of home theater content and not so much of musical content, as most of the music I listen to does not have the dynamic range of the most dynamic movie sound tracks I have heard...YMMV.

I suggest that someone picking a speaker design should choose based on his particular listening level, and then add 25% or more level for headroom in order to be able to deliver those incredibly hot passages. For me it is not about having the ability to listen super loud *all* of the time, but rather to have the headroom to be able to play super loud, without signs of compression, when needed. As long as your speaker choice (and amplification, of course) can handle your normal level consistently, and still rise to the occasion when needed, then you have picked wisely.
Quote:
A quick n' dirty way to test this is to buy the thickest cheap quarter-round molding you can find at your local Home Depot, tape two pieces together to make a half-round (or three if the third will wrap around your cabinet) and attach them to your cabinet temporarily.
Sounds good to me...easy and cheap...my style....smile.gif
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