or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › DIY Speakers and Subs › which would be better for ported...
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

which would be better for ported... - Page 2

post #31 of 264
Quote:
Originally Posted by wormraper View Post

yeah, the ep4000's are a common one. 95% I'll end up going with a pair of them..

well, I think I'm gonna do it in stages... buy 2 now and see how I like it. then buy 2 later etc... I think I'm gonna get 2 x SI 18's and power with an EP4000.... question. should I bridge the amp and get 2 of the D4's so as to run the subs in parrallel and give the bridged amp a 4ohm load or just run one per channel?

OR

are the SI's that much better than the Dayton 18's? I can get 2 dayton 18's for about $420 vs. the $489 of the SI's...

I would get D4's either way, then you would wire them as a 2 ohm load individually. Then you could run 2-ohm per channel parallel/stereo or you could wire the pair together and bridge the amp at 4ohm.

As for vs the Daytons, I haven't heard the Daytons, but it seems like they're pretty similar. My preorder price was the same and the Daytons weren't in stock, so I went with the SI's. Your shipping is $109 for the pair?

Another big determinant for me, actually, was that the Daytons are SVC 4ohm. I already had one EP4000, so I wouldn't have been able to wire them properly. To do a pair per amp, I would have to do 2 ohm bridged (which the amp can't do), 8ohm bridged, or 4ohm stereo. So no matter what, I was only going to be able to use ~600W/ch with the Daytons where I can use 1000W/ch with the SI's.
post #32 of 264
Thread Starter 
yeah, $109 for a pair and $179 for all 4 if I went that route

and 2 ohm load if wired on one channel? I thought since they were 4 ohm coils that it would be an 8ohm load on the amp per channel if I did it that way and if I wired 2 in parallel it would feed the bridged amp a 4 ohm load?
post #33 of 264
Quote:
Originally Posted by wormraper View Post

yeah, $109 for a pair and $179 for all 4 if I went that route

and 2 ohm load if wired on one channel? I thought since they were 4 ohm coils that it would be an 8ohm load on the amp per channel if I did it that way and if I wired 2 in parallel it would feed the bridged amp a 4 ohm load?

You could do it a number of ways. If you want to run parallel or stereo, you would wire the SI's 4ohm dual voice coils in parallel so each driver would have a 2ohm load. Then you would hook 1 driver to each channel. If you want to run bridged, you could wire each driver in series to 8ohm, then wire 2 drivers together in parallel to get a 4ohm load on the amp for the 1 and only bridged channel.

Those are the optimal ways. You could also wire each driver in series to 8ohm and run one per channel, you would just get a lot less power to them and less output.
post #34 of 264
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradthebold88 View Post

You could do it a number of ways. If you want to run parallel or stereo, you would wire the SI's 4ohm dual voice coils in parallel so each driver would have a 2ohm load. Then you would hook 1 driver to each channel. If you want to run bridged, you could wire each driver in series to 8ohm, then wire 2 drivers together in parallel to get a 4ohm load on the amp for the 1 and only bridged channel.

Those are the optimal ways. You could also wire each driver in series to 8ohm and run one per channel, you would just get a lot less power to them and less output.

ahhh gotcha, 8 ohms would be a lot less, that's why you'd wire to 2 ohms in parallel .... does the ep4000 handle 2 ohm loads well? I always thought the behringers were poor at using 2 ohm loads compared to other beefier amps..

oh, and can I run a single ep4000 on a 15 amp circuit ? I'm gonna be upgrading to a full 30 amp circuit in the next few months but I was thinking I might be able to run 2 of the 18's on one ep4000 if I could do it on a 15 amp circuit.
Edited by wormraper - 9/1/13 at 3:25am
post #35 of 264
Quote:
Originally Posted by wormraper View Post

ahhh gotcha, 8 ohms would be a lot less, that's why you'd wire to 2 ohms in parallel .... does the ep4000 handle 2 ohm loads well? I always thought the behringers were poor at using 2 ohm loads compared to other beefier amps..

oh, and can I run a single ep4000 on a 15 amp circuit ? I'm gonna be upgrading to a full 30 amp circuit in the next few months but I was thinking I might be able to run 2 of the 18's on one ep4000 if I could do it on a 15 amp circuit.

The EP4000 does 2ohm stereo just fine, but it won't do 2ohm bridged. So the lowest it will go is 2ohm stereo and 4ohm bridged.

It will run on a 15 amp circuit just fine. I have run a pair on one 15 amp line to clipping without a noticeable issue. Sine wave testing at full power would probably pop the breaker, but momentary clipping hasn't. I'm not sure about full power extended movie scenes though, as I always turn it down if I see it clip.
post #36 of 264

I've been running my EP4000 at 2 ohm stereo for a while now with no problems.

post #37 of 264
Thread Starter 
sweet. now to get an electrician's quote on upgrading to a 30 amp dedicated circuit. I unfortunately don't have any spaces on my breaker box free to add another one so this may be a moot issue frown.gif (unless you think 2 ep4000's can work on a dedicated 20 amp circuit).......will have to just run 2 of them on one ep4000 on my regular living room 15 amp circuit for the time being. hopefully they can install in a tandem breaker to add in a 20 amp line.

also, since I'm considering the SI D4's and wiring each sub up for an 8 ohm load .........can I then wire them up for a 4ohm load AT THE AMP since I want two cabs? or do I have to do it at the drivers
Edited by wormraper - 9/2/13 at 1:36am
post #38 of 264
Quote:
Originally Posted by wormraper View Post

yeah, the ep4000's are a common one. 95% I'll end up going with a pair of them..

well, I think I'm gonna do it in stages... buy 2 now and see how I like it. then buy 2 later etc... I think I'm gonna get 2 x SI 18's and power with an EP4000.... question. should I bridge the amp and get 2 of the D4's so as to run the subs in parrallel and give the bridged amp a 4ohm load or just run one per channel?

OR

are the SI's that much better than the Dayton 18's? I can get 2 dayton 18's for about $420 vs. the $489 of the SI's...

Go with the one that you can get the best deal on because they are very very similar in terms of performance. I am sure either one would put a huge smile on your face!
post #39 of 264
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post

Go with the one that you can get the best deal on because they are very very similar in terms of performance. I am sure either one would put a huge smile on your face!

that's pretty much what I've come to the conclusion. the ONLY thing that's keeping me from just ordering 2 daytons right here, right now is the fact that I couldn't really run the ep4000 bridged with those (670-700 watts per channel at 4 ohms, or if I bridged it I'd get about 1900 watts to use on both drivers at 4 ohms) ... cuz pretty much I'd only be able to run a 8 ohm in parallel on a bridged ep4000 since it doesn't do 2 ohm bridged just 4 ohm and 8 ohm. while with the SI 18 D4's I could wire them up to an 8 ohm configuration on the drivers and then run both in series to give the bridged amp 4 ohms....... I'd just be worried I couldn't max out the power of the ep4000 by just running the daytons on one channel or in 8ohm mode bridged
post #40 of 264
the difference between 1900 total watts and 1300 total watts is 1.6 db. just say'n.
post #41 of 264
Quote:
Originally Posted by RickD1225 View Post

MemX, I have yet to get max spl to work for me either.
Cool, I'm glad I'm not alone tongue.gif lol
post #42 of 264
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

the difference between 1900 total watts and 1300 total watts is 1.6 db. just say'n.

that's not that much....might as well just pull the trigger on the Daytons then.
post #43 of 264
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

the difference between 1900 total watts and 1300 total watts is 1.6 db. just say'n.
Just to check...

+3dB requires twice the power but +6dB sounds twice as loud?
post #44 of 264
yeah, you've got it.

the equation is: db power increase = 10 * log (power 2 / power 1), so 10 * log (1900/1300) = 10 * 0.16 = 1.6 db.

for double power: db power increase = 10 * log (2 / 1) = 10 * 0.301 = 3.01 db.

as for what sounds "twice as loud" that is tough to say. in the bass, a 6db increase would be significantly louder (maybe twice as loud subjectively), while 3db would be noticeably louder but not twice as loud.
post #45 of 264
Thank you for the equations smile.gif

I really think I must have missed the class on logs at schoo!, they are a complete blank in my head! frown.gif

I needs to get me some more learning lol


On a related note, I'm tempted to run my future quad D2 build at 4Ohm bridged off 1 channel of a CV5000 (1x3600w, all drivers wired parallel, connected in series) rather than at 2Ohm, two off each channel (2x2500w, all drivers wired parallel, two in series per channel) if there really is that little difference!
post #46 of 264
Thread Starter 
now that I'm deciding on WHAT to get, what about for the hpf/equlization? any particular device for this one?
post #47 of 264
Quote:
Originally Posted by wormraper View Post

now that I'm deciding on WHAT to get, what about for the hpf/equlization? any particular device for this one?

I like my MiniDSP. You can do up to 12 bands of EQ per channel straight from REW. You can do high and low pass filters, you can set delays, and you can raise output voltage with the balanced one if you need.
post #48 of 264
Have you thought about moving the screen forward to fit all the speakers behind? This way you could place the SEOS at the center of the screen.. you'd need a relatively sonically transparent screen though..
post #49 of 264
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by diaz View Post

Have you thought about moving the screen forward to fit all the speakers behind? This way you could place the SEOS at the center of the screen.. you'd need a relatively sonically transparent screen though..

Oh I can place the SEOS center right in the middle, It's the sides I'm dealing with. where the subs would be. that and I tried to do the whole screen and the wife nixed it. said no more spending money since I've been through 3 screens as it is biggrin.gif
post #50 of 264
Thread Starter 
oh, and I have a chance of getting the Crown XLS 2500 and/or XTI 2002 for $300 from a DJ buddy... are the specs on that thing accurate or is the EP4000 more powerful, better quality? + is the XTI 2002 the better one, or the XLS?
Edited by wormraper - 9/4/13 at 10:56am
post #51 of 264
Quote:
Originally Posted by wormraper View Post

oh, and I have a chance of getting the Crown XLS 2500 and/or XTI 2002 for $300 from a DJ buddy... are the specs on that thing accurate or is the EP4000 more powerful, better quality? + is the XTI 2002 the better one, or the XLS?

The XLS 2500 for $300 is a steal. It's a powerful, QUIET, efficient running amp. Keep in mind that it does have a factory HPF of 20hz. The ep4000 is well regarded by DIYers but even after I did the fan mod I still could not stand the sound of the fan whistling from 8 feet away so I sold mine. Good "bang for the buck" amp, though.
post #52 of 264
Thread Starter 
Ahhhhh. built in HPF... can you turn the HPF off? I was gonna tune the subs to 18 hz with a hpf of 16 hz frown.gif... if the crown is undefeatable that's a big no no since that's a 3 DB loss at 20hz if I employ a 20hz filter... and even more at the 18hz range.
Edited by wormraper - 9/4/13 at 5:11pm
post #53 of 264
Quote:
Originally Posted by wormraper View Post

Ahhhhh. built in HPF... can you turn the HPF off? I was gonna tune the subs to 18 hz with a hpf of 16 hz frown.gif... if the crown is undefeatable that's a big no no since that's a 3 DB loss at 20hz if I employ a 20hz filter... and even more at the 18hz range.

I spoke with two different Crown techs and each told me that the hpf @ 20hz is non-defeatable.
post #54 of 264
Quote:
Originally Posted by wormraper View Post

Ahhhhh. built in HPF... can you turn the HPF off? I was gonna tune the subs to 18 hz with a hpf of 16 hz frown.gif... if the crown is undefeatable that's a big no no since that's a 3 DB loss at 20hz if I employ a 20hz filter... and even more at the 18hz range.

I spoke with two different Crown techs and each told me that the hpf @ 20hz is non-defeatable.
post #55 of 264
if you have a little bit of headroom that can be sacrificed in the signal chain, a single parametric eq at 80hz, q=0.3, gain = -3.0db will beat down the whole rest of the curve and give you essentially the same thing as a high pass filter at 16hz. :-)
post #56 of 264
Thread Starter 
here's my calcs so far....

29 wide x 30 tall x 33 inches deep

slot port of 3 inches tall x 15 inches wide x 25.5 inches long...
(I assume that's the INTERNAL dimensions of the port... it's 3.75 x 16.5 x 25.5 if made from 3/4 inch mdf/ply

is giving the slot port 6.5 inches clearance from the back of the sub enough room????

bracing is 5 sheets of 3/4 inch ply/mdf with an 18 inch circle cut out the middle resting right on top of the slot port in the same orientation as the driver hole cutout... (4 spaced across the build and the 5th glued up against the bad to basically reinforce the back panel

gives me a 62.8 ft/s air velocity with no bending of the port up the back wall... (making that about 20 m/s velocity)



sound good to you guys?


really wish I could accommodate sono subs, would be so much easier but they would dip into the screen frown.gif... only 1.5 foot from wall to screen on either side
Edited by wormraper - 9/6/13 at 10:34am
post #57 of 264
Thread Starter 
oh, and with it being this big I'm assuming I should use some sort of plywood....is 3/4 inch Arauco ply good enough for a ported box? or should I bend over and the pay $65 per 5x5 sheet for Baltic Birch... I'm assuming MDF would be wayyyyyyyyy too heavy for a 16.6 GROSS cu ft box
post #58 of 264
If you have wooden floors you can put wheels on them tongue.gif lol
post #59 of 264
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MemX View Post

If you have wooden floors you can put wheels on them tongue.gif lol

lol, I have the joy of having mexican Saltillo tile... meaning every piece is domed and slightly different heights...

I'd love to do Baltic birch to save on weight, but MDF is so dang cheap in comparison (BB is about $65 a 5x5 sheet vs. $35 for a 4x8 of MDF)

if I can get away with using Arauco ply from HD I will. I know Bill FM uses the 1/2 inch stuff for his builds, but I didn't know if it would work well in this build.. (bracing would be every 8 inches as you can guess from my specs on the sides and top and bottom... front to back would have to deal with doubling up on the 3/4 inch material for driver baffle and back ) I've just never used it and want to make sure it would work well before buying it.... I'd hate to use MDF because of the weight, but I can always do that (although 3/4 inch mdf 16.6 cu ft GROSS cab would be INSANE weight wise)
Edited by wormraper - 9/6/13 at 1:03pm
post #60 of 264
Thread Starter 
well, my 15 amp circuit won't be a problem. my friends boyfriend is an electrician and hooked me up so he's installing a full 20 amp dedicated circuit next week biggrin.gif... which means I can probably run an Inuke 6000 or IPR 7500 off of that if I wanted to do all 4 (am actually considered doing 4 sealed SI 18's.. but it depends on if I can get a good price for the amp)

or I could run one ep4000 off the 20 amp with my receiver or projector and the other amp on the 15 amp circuit with either of the projector or receiver (whichever draws less power)...as long as that's ok that is.
Edited by wormraper - 9/7/13 at 12:47pm
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: DIY Speakers and Subs
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › DIY Speakers and Subs › which would be better for ported...