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which would be better for ported... - Page 3

post #61 of 264
Hey Wormraper, Check out SI, they are selling the HT-18s at $209 shipped anywhere in the USA for the month of Sept.
post #62 of 264
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RickD1225 View Post

Hey Wormraper, Check out SI, they are selling the HT-18s at $209 shipped anywhere in the USA for the month of Sept.


oh that's EXACTLY what I'm going for ... I thought it was $219 shipped, but close enough. I'm deciding between running 2 of them ported or running four of them sealed for that price (running the sealed in 6 cu ft sonotubes vs. ported boxes ) I'm just waiting for the prices to take effect on the website (they're still the old pricing as a few hours ago)
post #63 of 264
Oops, yeah it is $219, i am thinking of getting 4 of these bad boys. If I didn't just have some major home repair expenses they would already be on order.
post #64 of 264
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RickD1225 View Post

Oops, yeah it is $219, i am thinking of getting 4 of these bad boys. If I didn't just have some major home repair expenses they would already be on order.

yeah, I'm still undecided on 4 sealed or two ported. two ported would be bulkier but definitely cheaper (one amp vs. two, two drivers vs. 4 etc), but the appeal of sub 18 hz bass is tempting. and I was LITERALLY about to order 2 of the 18's when I saw the post on HTS regarding the sale price biggrin.gif.. ... just impatiently waiting for their site to update with the prices.
post #65 of 264
go for four ported. :-)

we just designed a really simple 16-17hz 11 cubic foot build for marty that would work great for you too!

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1489541/large-ported-dayton-ho18s
post #66 of 264
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

go for four ported. :-)

we just designed a really simple 16-17hz 11 cubic foot build for marty that would work great for you too!

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1489541/large-ported-dayton-ho18s

LOL, I'd never be able to fit the final two unfortunately frown.gif... my room is 12 feet wide .... would KILL for that kinda outuput though biggrin.gif..

I was looking at that thread though. incredibly simple

I was thinking of copying it if you don't mind, go for an 18 hz tune which would give me some more cu volume inside and shorten the port... it would make it 11.7 cu ft internal after all is said and done with an 18 hz tune. .... could be sexy as hell
Edited by wormraper - 9/8/13 at 12:09am
post #67 of 264
Thread Starter 
ok, have been considering an ep4000 to run the pair, but what about an Inuke 6000? those are about the price of the ep4000's and would give me a bit more headroom I'm guessing per channel (I was going to run one sub per channel of whichever amp I got
post #68 of 264
Only thing with the iNuke's is they have a fairly steep roll off <10Hz, IIRC?

But then if you're going ported and tuned to above that point, that may not matter... lol
post #69 of 264
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MemX View Post

Only thing with the iNuke's is they have a fairly steep roll off <10Hz, IIRC?

But then if you're going ported and tuned to above that point, that may not matter... lol

yeah, I was going for ported... probably tuned at 18 hz

I was mainly worried about wattage and reliability.... I know the ep4000's have been workhorses, just didn't want to buy something that has a good deal more power like the Inuke 6000 and have it be a POS
post #70 of 264
i'd think of the inuke 6000 as more of a 4400 watt amp.

it is essentially two 3000's in one box, so it can't be bridged, thus roughly two 2200 watt 4 ohm channels.

using dual 4 ohm voice coil drivers (wired in series for 8 ohms per driver), two per channel should work great.

as for long term durability, who knows.

there are already a lot out there and folks beat on them pretty hard, but hardly any complaints except the one that ricci blew up and there may have been some other things going on in that instance.

"yeah, I was going for ported... probably tuned at 18 hz"

i thought that you were jumping on the marty sub bandwagon. :-)
post #71 of 264
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

i'd think of the inuke 6000 as more of a 4400 watt amp.

it is essentially two 3000's in one box, so it can't be bridged, thus roughly two 2200 watt 4 ohm channels.

using dual 4 ohm voice coil drivers (wired in series for 8 ohms per driver), two per channel should work great.

as for long term durability, who knows.

there are already a lot out there and folks beat on them pretty hard, but hardly any complaints except the one that ricci blew up and there may have been some other things going on in that instance.

"yeah, I was going for ported... probably tuned at 18 hz"

i thought that you were jumping on the marty sub bandwagon. :-)

gotcha, yeah, I guess it's too early to tell right now... I'm just not sure if a Inuke 6000 can run on a dedicated 20 amp circuit or not... if It does I very well may get one

yeah, that's exactly what I'm doing this month... doing a pair of Marty subs tuned to 18 hz instead of 17 hz using the SI 18's when they get their sept special up and running on the site... (impatiently waiting)
post #72 of 264
"I'm just not sure if a Inuke 6000 can run on a dedicated 20 amp circuit or not... if It does I very well may get one"

this thread might be worth looking through:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1483516/new-inuke-nu4-6000-4-channel-amp

in essense, speaker loads are not purely resistive and circuit breakers tend to have some give in them for short bursts, the combination of the two means that you can put a whole lot more amp on a circuit than it would appear using ohm's law.

in winisd, take a look at the "apparent amplifier load" tab for a rough idea of how current actually varies with frequency. here is the marty sub, with si 18 driver, 80hz low pass filter, set to 1000 watts to make it easy to read:



you can see that near tuning power is maxed, but for the most part, power is less than 50% of 1000 watts.

you should be just fine! :-)
post #73 of 264
Thread Starter 
that makes it VERY interesting then...... I can get the DSP version for $450 at PE right now, but that means It has a hpf of 20zh on it... or just go with the regular version for $375 and get a minidsp.... the XTI 2002 I had a line on dried up... so with that much power on tap would I be better off running two subs on one channel (since I'm only doing TWO subs to start off with, and leave the other channel open or run one off each channel and give it a bunch of power ...

although from some of the other forums they were saying the Inuke 6000 really only about 700 watts per channel into 4 ohms instead of the 2200 it says..... the 2200 was 33% BURST mode according to tests and regular RMS was 700-800 watts
Edited by wormraper - 9/9/13 at 12:24pm
post #74 of 264
There is a comprehensive test of the inuke 6000 here.

http://forum.speakerplans.com/behringer-inuke-nu6000-vs-kam-kxd7200-bench-tested_topic69202.html

Conclusion of power testing

Neither of the amplifiers showed any signs of progressively restricting the output during these tests so I'm inclined believe that they should be good to do this indefinitely. As a caveat though I did not test them in this mode for long as my load box is not capable of these power levels for more than a couple of minutes at a time.

To summarise, for music signals, both channels driven, you can expect an output of:

Behringer:
1.37kW into 8 Ohms, 2.05kW into 4 Ohms for full-range or mid-top duty
1.16kW into 8 Ohms, 1.80kW into 4 Ohms for Bass duty

Kam:
1.12kW into 8 Ohms, 1.77kW into 4 Ohms for full-range or mid-top duty
1.02kW into 8 Ohms, 1.62kW into 4 Ohms for Bass duty

In the next instalment we will look at the frequency response......
post #75 of 264
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by splotten View Post

There is a comprehensive test of the inuke 6000 here.

http://forum.speakerplans.com/behringer-inuke-nu6000-vs-kam-kxd7200-bench-tested_topic69202.html

Conclusion of power testing

Neither of the amplifiers showed any signs of progressively restricting the output during these tests so I'm inclined believe that they should be good to do this indefinitely. As a caveat though I did not test them in this mode for long as my load box is not capable of these power levels for more than a couple of minutes at a time.

To summarise, for music signals, both channels driven, you can expect an output of:

Behringer:
1.37kW into 8 Ohms, 2.05kW into 4 Ohms for full-range or mid-top duty
1.16kW into 8 Ohms, 1.80kW into 4 Ohms for Bass duty

Kam:
1.12kW into 8 Ohms, 1.77kW into 4 Ohms for full-range or mid-top duty
1.02kW into 8 Ohms, 1.62kW into 4 Ohms for Bass duty

In the next instalment we will look at the frequency response......


yeah, that's one of the places I was looking at... seems to be a beefy amp. if I DO get it I will probably get a 4 year squaretrade warranty or something since it IS behringer lol
post #76 of 264
splotten, the key point that gets lost is that amp testing is done into a resistive load which means that power does not change with frequency as in a real speaker.

if hooked up to a 4 ohm resistive load, then the plot above would be more or less a flat line at 1000 watts. that is very different from an actual speaker.
post #77 of 264
"...but that means It has a hpf of 20hz on it.."

??
post #78 of 264
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

"...but that means It has a hpf of 20hz on it.."

??

I was trying to tune to 17-18 hzz... just wondering if those extra couple hz of extension were worth it....
post #79 of 264
"so with that much power on tap would I be better off running two subs on one channel (since I'm only doing TWO subs to start off with, and leave the other channel open or run one off each channel and give it a bunch of power ..."

if it were me, i'd get the dsp version of the amp which includes a voltage limiter. run one sub on each channel and just set the limiter for protection.

or you could run both subs on one channel and leave the other open. no biggie.
post #80 of 264
"I was trying to tune to 17-18 hzz... just wondering if those extra couple hz of extension were worth it...."

ah. the corner on the filter can only be set to 20hz, but there is a workaround where you can get it down to 10hz or even less if you wish. i'll go find the thread.
post #81 of 264
here you go:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1461489/how-to-extend-the-high-pass-filter-below-20hz-in-dcx2496

it works the same way in the inuke as the dcx.
post #82 of 264
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

here you go:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1461489/how-to-extend-the-high-pass-filter-below-20hz-in-dcx2496

it works the same way in the inuke as the dcx.

well well well, now THAT is interesting... I was only gonna drop a few hz down from 20 hz so that is kinda handy...

should I tune the box to 17-18 hz and just run the hpf at 20hz with those tweaks? or should I tune the box to 20hz and do the tweaks...

LASTLY.. should I run a sub PER channel of the 6000 dsp or dual them up on one channel??? (gonna run a pair for now instead of 4 to see if I REALLY need all 4)
post #83 of 264
i would tune the cab just like marty wanted around 17hz. if you need a little help getting the filtering just right, that is pretty easy with the inuke.

my suggestion for your other question: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1488182/which-would-be-better-for-ported/60#post_23717486

we were typing at the same time.
post #84 of 264
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

i would tune the cab just like marty wanted around 17hz. if you need a little help getting the filtering just right, that is pretty easy with the inuke.

my suggestion for your other question: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1488182/which-would-be-better-for-ported/60#post_23717486

we were typing at the same time.

sweet...

ahh, run one on each channel would be my choice.. over speccing the amp and giving it more headroom would be more my taste than clipping the amp.
post #85 of 264
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

splotten, the key point that gets lost is that amp testing is done into a resistive load which means that power does not change with frequency as in a real speaker.

if hooked up to a 4 ohm resistive load, then the plot above would be more or less a flat line at 1000 watts. that is very different from an actual speaker.

Yes that i true. That point is not lost. At least not to me smile.gif

I havent read all the posts in this thread so i am not completely sure what you are getting at. I just remembered that test so i posted it for wormraper to see.
post #86 of 264
LTD

Oh i think i see where you are going. 20 amp should be fine for running an inuke in a real world scenario.
post #87 of 264
Thread Starter 
oh and thank you guys for all the wonderful advice. I apologize if I seem to ask a lot of questions, I'm just one of those type of people who asks tons of questions so I do it right the first time. I've been learning a lot about modeling the last few weeks and it's been great to finally hone in on a design and ALMOST hone in on an amp (I've always done horns as my DIY subs so I always had a plate amp)

one last question. this is more for the future. I pretty much CAN'T fit any 18 inch drivers by the seating position where I would like them... but I CAN fit some 15 inch drivers in sonotubes using 18 inch sonotube near the seating area for nearfield subs (can't have too many subs can you?). would mixing 15's with 18's be a bad thing or since they're all the same style (LLT) would this work for adding 2 more subs in the future?
post #88 of 264
mixing subs that way is fine.

it just gets more complicated if mixing ported with different tuning frequencies or sealed with ported, but what you are describing wouldn't be a problem at all.
post #89 of 264
Thread Starter 
just what I wanted to hear. thanks man


oh... and I noticed this in another thread... being that I'm only doing 1 sub per channel on the Inuke 6000 am I going to have a problem with the limiters shutting off?


The Behringer was happy to drive 1 channel at 4 Ohms with no reduction in output at 1 minute. Power output was 2.27kW at 1kHz and 2.12kW at 31Hz. This demonstrates that the amp section should drive high power into 4 Ohms without any short-term limitation. However, when driving two channels simultaneously the amp would trip its protection and shut down, needing a power on/off cycle to reset.
http://forum.speakerplans.com/behringer-inuke-nu6000-vs-kam-kxd7200-bench-tested_topic69202.html


I was having a hard time interpreting whether they meant they were pushing a LOT of power through both channels at once or whether that mean under normal load I'd have that issue (I'm kind of stupid when it comes to electricity... good at math, bad at electrical knowledge)


oh, and while I'm thinking about it. would I need a cleanbox or something like that for my receiver? it's an Onkyo 605 and I can't seem to find the voltage output specs on it in the manual
Edited by wormraper - 9/10/13 at 7:21am
post #90 of 264
on the apparent power tab in winisd, it can be seen that in an actual subwoofer power varies with frequency.

by setting power for your subs to 1000 watts in winisd, the result is the curve presented in post #72.

at every frequency, actual power is much less than 1000 watts.

on the test bench, actual power is into a pure resistor, and if that were modeled would be 1000 watts straight across the board.

the subwoofer on the other hand at 30hz and a 1000 watt setting will only actually be using about 150 watts (because that is where its resonant frequency is).

so real subwoofers are much more friendly on amps and wall outlets than it may seem from bench tests.
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