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Graphics Card for 29/59 Bug Worth It?

post #1 of 20
Thread Starter 
Hi everyone,

I've been pretty happy with my HTPC (as has the fiance) but one thing I'm noticing is the 29/59 (or in my case, 29/14) framerate bug. It's not on every channel (nor every show) but I do notice it. Most commonly I see skin tones changing (a sort of flickering).

Currently I have an AMD A6-3500 with integrated Radeon 6530 and no dedicated graphics card. I've been looking into possibly getting a cheap graphics card like a Radeon 6450 as this seems to be one that has less problems with the 29/59 bug. Here's my question: would it be worth it to spend the $30-40 to get the graphics card or is it just not worth it? Specifically, I"m trying to make sure that getting a graphics card would actually fix the problem or if it's just a crapshoot and not worth my time/money.

Thanks!
post #2 of 20
I can see it with a HD5670 and my HD7770. I don't have that flashing like i did with Intel graphics, now it looks more like constant frame drops.
post #3 of 20
Thread Starter 
Yea, I was basing my choices on this page I found which lists the cards that seem to have the least amount of problems: http://experts.windows.com/w/experts_wiki/71.aspx
post #4 of 20
I had the bug and was using an Intel G620 CPU with integrated graphics. I was experiencing a stuttering or frame drop on some SD programs when watching using WMC7. However there was no problem when watching using WMPlayer or MPC-HC.

I seems some people get a flickering & some get a stuttering.

I bought an HD6450 as mentioned in the link you supplied & it fixed the problem. I got this one on sale & after rebate was $14.99.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127584

Looks like it's on sale again & I see free 2 day shipping.

I does have a small fan which some people may not want. But I can't tell if it adds any more noise to my HTPC which already has a CPU fan & a PSU fan. I never paid much attention to any fan noise before installing the video card,
post #5 of 20
Thread Starter 
Yea I don't much notice sound. I might bite on this, but I really really really don't like rebates. Just annoying.

This may be a dumb question, but is the "bug" still there, meaning the framerate still jumps back and forth but you don't notice anything visually?
post #6 of 20
Can anyone who's experienced this issue say who their provider is and which channels? Or is this more common in OTA?

With Comcast and a HDHR Prime, I don't notice this in any of the channels I watch. Some of my HD channels have letterboxed (SD) commercials, but I don't notice any constant frame rate change. Which channels or content delivery provider does this bug occur with?
post #7 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by gewbert View Post

Yea I don't much notice sound. I might bite on this, but I really really really don't like rebates. Just annoying.

This may be a dumb question, but is the "bug" still there, meaning the framerate still jumps back and forth but you don't notice anything visually?

Yes.

You can't change the information that's in the data stream, but you can change how you respond to the information that's in the data stream.
post #8 of 20
Are you having problems with movies or TV ?
post #9 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by gewbert View Post

Yea I don't much notice sound. I might bite on this, but I really really really don't like rebates. Just annoying.

This may be a dumb question, but is the "bug" still there, meaning the framerate still jumps back and forth but you don't notice anything visually?

Before the video card I used MPC-HC & it's info screen to look at OTA HD and OTA SD. In both cases the frame rate was always changing & the Red & Green video & audio graph lines were not straight & parallel as I understand they should be. After the card the frame rate was steady & the graph lines nice & straight & parallel. Based on this I would say the card corrected the frame rate.

And the WMC7's info screen the rate would periodically flicker from 59 to 29 before the card. I'm presuming I also checked WMC after the card but am scratching my head at the moment trying to recall exactly what I did.

I never noticed a problem when watching HD but the card sure made the frame rate steady, so I consider this a bonus. Maybe some people might have previously noticed an HD frame rate irregularity, I don't know.
Edited by Mike99 - 8/30/13 at 12:41am
post #10 of 20
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark_Slayer View Post

Can anyone who's experienced this issue say who their provider is and which channels? Or is this more common in OTA?

With Comcast and a HDHR Prime, I don't notice this in any of the channels I watch. Some of my HD channels have letterboxed (SD) commercials, but I don't notice any constant frame rate change. Which channels or content delivery provider does this bug occur with?

I have Comcast and see this mainly on HD channels. However, it does seem to depend on the show, oddly. Syfy and Bravo are what I notice. Specifically I've had a lot of problems with Continuum on Syfy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by adam1991 View Post

Yes.

You can't change the information that's in the data stream, but you can change how you respond to the information that's in the data stream.

Thanks, makes sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

Are you having problems with movies or TV ?

Live TV (and recorded) in WMC. No problem in XMBC/MPC-HC.

Anybody have experience with this card? http://www.amazon.com/Asus-Radeon-Silence-Profile-PCI-Express/dp/B004X8EO6Q/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1377860852&sr=8-1&keywords=6450
post #11 of 20
Bumping this thread to hopefully get some advice. I have an hd7770 and love the picture. I do see frame drops on premium channels because of the frame rate changes. I don't want to give up any processing power. Is anyone using one of the R9 cards or 7800 series that can tell me if they too show the frame drops? Thanks.
post #12 of 20

My HTPC was running fine on a mother board with onboard Radeon HD 6310 graphics. Initially had the frame rate issue but only visible effect was the contrast flashing which disabling the contrast control helped and that was solved.  A year later the "WAF" was strained because of how slow the Guide using WMC would get when she was recording something and also the pixilation that would occur when recording 2 things and trying to watch a 3rd.

So I decided to re build with a more powerful CPU. Got a new mother board and Decided on the Intel i5 with 4600 Graphics.  seemed like a good idea at the time.

Well let me tell you that struggling with this 29/59 issue with an Intel GPU is not fun. I have spent the last 2 weeks tweaking and playing and loading this software and that software. Removing codec's re loading codec's. Tweaking controls finding older drivers and re loading.  Mean while the Wife can't watch anything because almost every channel displays the frame drops every so often, Depending on what the original content was filmed at I suppose. So she has taken to only watching SD channels, Of course HBO is the worse since everything they show drops frames regardless even if it was filmed in the 90's.

 

I have finally decided to order a new GPU card and be done with this so the ASUS HD6450-SL-2GD3-L Radeon HD 6450 2GB card is on its way. Will let you know how I make out.

post #13 of 20
Someone else correct me if I am wrong, but the new Intel Haswell procs do not have the bug, with the recent drivers.

I think your problem lies elsewhere.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7007/intels-haswell-an-htpc-perspective/4
Edited by wiley165 - 3/31/14 at 10:08am
post #14 of 20

Well the image stuttering only appeared when the Frame rate was bouncing between 29.97 and 59.94. and only on live tv. I only tried my ripped DVD's and I don't have any blue rays to try, but they all seemed to work fine.

On Live TV When the frame rate stayed constant at 59.94 everything seemed fine.  It seemed dependent on both channel and what was being broadcast.  Live events like sports were fine, then some commercials would be stuttering.  Then back to the game and everything is fine.  Again the stutterning only happened when I saw the frame rate bounce. Putting on the SD channels of the same broadcast though and everything was fine, thought it stayed at 29.97 fps

If there might be something else causing it though then a new GPU won't help will it.   So if you have any thoughts on what else I could check I would appreciate the suggestions.

 

Thanks

post #15 of 20
You'd have to begin by providing the details of your setup.

Is this an all-in-one HTPC, where the drives you are recording to are local, or over a network where the drives are on another machine?
What type of tuner are you using?
What components are within your HTPC?
How is your network setup, etc.

If you have had the same problems in the past, I'm leaning toward an issue with the network, tuner, or perhaps the hard drive itself if they are all carried over from the previous setup.
post #16 of 20
Mike, unfortunately Microsoft basically wiped out the forum information where this came from: http://www.thegreenbutton.tv/wiki/index.php?title=The_29_59_Frame_Rate_Issue

I do not remember which one it was, but there was one Intel chip that was listed as not being able to deal with the frame rate changes. I do know from experience either a GT430 or HD6450 will handle the issue and both of these cards can be found pretty cheap.
post #17 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy_Steb View Post

I can see it with a HD5670 and my HD7770. I don't have that flashing like i did with Intel graphics, now it looks more like constant frame drops.

 

The flashing you were experiencing was caused by dynamic contrast, disable it in the intel control panel and it shouldn't flash anymore.

post #18 of 20
I upgraded from HD 5450 to HD 7770 and it still has the 29/59 bug. I don't think this problem will ever be fixed since WMC is dead. Only way to play these files smoothly is to strip the DRM and IVTC them with madVR film mode.
post #19 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by StinDaWg View Post

I upgraded from HD 5450 to HD 7770 and it still has the 29/59 bug.

Have you tried Nvidia? While not perfect, I've had much better luck with a GT430 over the last few years than AMD in the 6xxxx series. I tried the 6450, 6570, and 6670 back in 2011 IIRC, and with the latest Catalyst drivers and everything turned off in CCC, they did much worse on my 29/59 clips than my GT430. In addition to playing less smoothly, some 29/59 events suffered what I would describe as a frame jumbling problem, which the Nvidia never exhibited. It would appear that a frame or two would get inserted out of place, which was distinct from flicker and immune to turning off dynamic contrast and all the other harmful features.
post #20 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by sawfish View Post

Have you tried Nvidia? While not perfect, I've had much better luck with a GT430 over the last few years than AMD in the 6xxxx series. I tried the 6450, 6570, and 6670 back in 2011 IIRC, and with the latest Catalyst drivers and everything turned off in CCC, they did much worse on my 29/59 clips than my GT430. In addition to playing less smoothly, some 29/59 events suffered what I would describe as a frame jumbling problem, which the Nvidia never exhibited. It would appear that a frame or two would get inserted out of place, which was distinct from flicker and immune to turning off dynamic contrast and all the other harmful features.
Nah, I've just moved on to using XBMC for PVR and madVR for everything else.
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