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post #121 of 329
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reference_head View Post

Why do you call it nonsense? If they all sound the same people would have those amps i linked. I i found those amps in 2min. Think what i could find in a few hours.

And If you think that just because 20 guys get in a room and cant tell one amp from another that means its a scientific fact. Then i have a bridge to sell you.

Exactly. Give me some scientific evidence of why they sound DIFFERENT.
post #122 of 329
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post

I have been hearing more and more lately about looks. People would rather do without or get something that does not fit their taste because it is ugly. We are not talking cars or homes here. Get what sounds best.

I agree. In both my set ups my power amps are hidden.
post #123 of 329
Quote:
Originally Posted by TVMAN1991 View Post

Exactly. Give me some scientific evidence of why they sound DIFFERENT.

I envy you. I wish i could believe that a $89 amp sounds as good as a 10k amp.

But im sorry i know better from from experience. My last amp was an xpa-5. It was nice and a great value for what i paid. But a bit dry and cold (plus it has a noisy floor from the high gain). So i moved on. My next amp B&K 200.7 s2. The two amps are night and day.
post #124 of 329
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reference_head View Post

I envy you. I wish i could believe that a $89 amp sounds as good as a 10k amp.

But im sorry i know better from from experience. My last amp was an xpa-5. It was nice and a great value for what i paid. But a bit dry and cold (plus it has a noisy floor from the high gain). So i moved on. My next amp B&K 200.7 s2. The two amps are night and day.

Explain to me in technical terms and frequency response charts how they sound different.

We ONLY hear analog hertz. If there is a change in the frequency response we will hear it. If not, we wont.
post #125 of 329
I find it funny that 9 out of 10 people that say all amps sound the same are emo owners.
I wonder why?
post #126 of 329
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyng_fool View Post

JTR Noesis would clobber either of the systems you're looking at.

Any scientifically provable facts to this? lmao
post #127 of 329
Thread Starter 
That theory that every Amplifier sounds the same, it's so silly that i prefer not to comment.

I give you one example...if you have a Honda Civic tunned with 400HP with Turbos ans Nitros and it can catch a Ferrari on the road...etc...

At the end..it's not a Ferrari, in most ways, and do you think the owner of the Ferrari cares? If you think he cares, you are wrong, because he doesn't.

Have you heard of refinement? That applies to looks, but also performance.
post #128 of 329
Quote:
Originally Posted by TVMAN1991 View Post

Exactly. Give me some scientific evidence of why they sound DIFFERENT.

The scientific evidence is they should all sound the same unless their distortion numbers are above a certain point or don't supply enough current to cover a speaker's impedance dips at the volume one wants to listen.

Fwiw, and if one wants to pursue the scientific discussion here would be a good thread to read and post in:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1485846/quality-power
post #129 of 329
Quote:
Originally Posted by MV_Cinema View Post

That theory that every Amplifier sounds the same, it's so silly that i prefer not to comment.

I give you one example...if you have a Honda Civic tunned with 400HP with Turbos ans Nitros and it can catch a Ferrari on the road...etc...

At the end..it's not a Ferrari, in most ways, and do you think the owner of the Ferrari cares? If you think he cares, you are wrong, because he doesn't.

Have you heard of refinement? That applies to looks, but also performance.

Lmao 1000000% agree
post #130 of 329
And yes it is silly smile.gif
post #131 of 329
Thread Starter 
Ok guys, he's right. Let's go back to the topic.

Ok, i started wanting to buy a certain speaker, ended up on another, and life is so strange...LOL

Today i am reading alot about the ATI AT3000 (7 Channels). If i had this Amplifier before and use the Pioneer Susano as Processor only, and add 2 SVS PB-13 Subs together with my Klipsch Reference Speakers, that was maybe a smart decision, who knows.

It's not a matter of going foward and back, it's a matter of being rational.

So confused...rolleyes.gif
post #132 of 329
Quote:
Originally Posted by MV_Cinema View Post

Ok guys, he's right. Let's go back to the topic.

Ok, i started wanting to buy a certain speaker, ended up on another, and life is so strange...LOL

Today i am reading alot about the ATI AT3000 (7 Channels). If i had this Amplifier before and use the Pioneer Susano as Processor only, and add 2 SVS PB-13 Subs together with my Klipsch Reference Speakers, that was maybe a smart decision, who knows.

It's not a matter of going foward and back, it's a matter of being rational.

So confused...rolleyes.gif

After following a few of your threads, I have no idea why you are making the decisions that you are, but if it were me I would've stuck with your original setup, added the 2 subs and have been done with it.
post #133 of 329
Thread Starter 
Yes you are totally right.

Tell me something, if i had an ATI 3000 (7 Channels) it's a Fully Balanced Amplifier, and if i use the Pioneer Susano as Pre-Amp, it dies not have balanced connections. So using the Susano there is no purpose to use the ATI right? Better to use when i buy another Processor right?

One thing, i am making the order for the Subs right now. I will buy 2 SVS PC.13 Ultra (Cilinders). I never tough they were so high....biggrin.gif:D

If i put them against the wall behind the front speakers (one on each side) is good? Or shou i put the 2 near the coutch (one on each side)

I am affraid that near the Plasma they cause vibrations to the Plasma and cause damage....

On my previous setup i had the Klipsch Sub in front of one RF-82II (just 5 cms ahead) and i felt the speaker sound interfered with the Sub and gave distorcion.
Edited by MV_Cinema - 9/4/13 at 12:14pm
post #134 of 329
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reference_head View Post

If that was true we would all have pro amps. More power and cost way less. Every amp i have owned sounds different. And that is a scientifically provable fact! .

It's all in your head.

http://www.roger-russell.com/truth/truth.htm#goodamplifiers
post #135 of 329
Quote:
Originally Posted by MV_Cinema View Post

Yes you are totally right.

Tell me something, if i had an ATI 3000 (7 Channels) it's a Fully Balanced Amplifier, and if i use the Pioneer Susano as Pre-Amp, it dies not have balanced connections. So using the Susano there is no purpose to use the ATI right? Better to use when i buy another Processor right?

One thing, i am making the order for the Subs right now. I will buy 2 SVS PC.13 Ultra (Cilinders). I never tough they were so high....biggrin.gif:D

If i put them against the wall behind the front speakers (one on each side) is good? Or shou i put the 2 near the coutch (one on each side)

I am affraid that near the Plasma they cause vibrations to the Plasma and cause damage....
. They shouldn't hurt your plasma at all. Even if you bolted the TV to the top of the subs I doubt it would hurt it. Try not to limit your subwoofer placement if you can. Each room is different and subwoofer placement is important for smoothing out your room's bass response. Otherwise you'll have bass heavy spots and bass light spots I your room. With the subs in the right places, you can even that response out so the bass is more consistent at all the listening positions and not just one sweet spot.

Having fully balanced outs is a gimmick too. Unless you have exceptionally long runs between your pre/pro and your amp it doesn't make any difference.
post #136 of 329
Quote:
Originally Posted by MV_Cinema View Post

Ok guys, he's right. Let's go back to the topic.

Ok, i started wanting to buy a certain speaker, ended up on another, and life is so strange...LOL

Today i am reading alot about the ATI AT3000 (7 Channels). If i had this Amplifier before and use the Pioneer Susano as Processor only, and add 2 SVS PB-13 Subs together with my Klipsch Reference Speakers, that was maybe a smart decision, who knows.

It's not a matter of going foward and back, it's a matter of being rational.

So confused...rolleyes.gif

That is the nice thing about amps. Power is power and you can have a 20 or 30 year old amp with your brand new pre/pro. Buy amps once, and all you have to do to get the latest decoders and room EQ is buy a new pre/pro every once in a while.
post #137 of 329
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyng_fool View Post

. They shouldn't hurt your plasma at all. Even if you bolted the TV to the top of the subs I doubt it would hurt it. Try not to limit your subwoofer placement if you can. Each room is different and subwoofer placement is important for smoothing out your room's bass response. Otherwise you'll have bass heavy spots and bass light spots I your room. With the subs in the right places, you can even that response out so the bass is more consistent at all the listening positions and not just one sweet spot.

Having fully balanced outs is a gimmick too. Unless you have exceptionally long runs between your pre/pro and your amp it doesn't make any difference.

You are not the first person to tell me it's a gimmick.

Anyway, here's what i did. Going to order my old Klipsch Reference again (the guy from the store is going to call me crazy), canceled the THX Ultra 2, and will decide later what i will put in the dedicated Theater. I am too stressed to make decisions right now...biggrin.gif
Right now i have to be careful otherwise my wife soon send me to a mental institution...LOL

Tell me something, do you think i will gain anything if i buy the ATI and use the Susano as Pre, or just let it be as it is right now?
post #138 of 329
Quote:
Originally Posted by MV_Cinema View Post

Yes you are totally right.

Tell me something, if i had an ATI 3000 (7 Channels) it's a Fully Balanced Amplifier, and if i use the Pioneer Susano as Pre-Amp, it dies not have balanced connections. So using the Susano there is no purpose to use the ATI right? Better to use when i buy another Processor right?

I can't imagine adding an external amp to the Pioneer Susano giving you any benefit...That said what is wrong with the processor in it?
post #139 of 329
Quote:
Originally Posted by MV_Cinema View Post


...Anyway, here's what i did. Going to order my old Klipsch Reference again (the guy from the store is going to call me crazy), canceled the THX Ultra 2, and will decide later what i will put in the dedicated Theater. I am too stressed to make decisions right now...biggrin.gif
Right now i have to be careful otherwise my wife soon send me to a mental institution...LOL

Here is what I don't understand--You evidently had those speakers a week ago and have changed your mind several times since then:
Quote:
Originally Posted by MV_Cinema View Post

Hi
I have the following setup:

- (2) RF-7II (Front)
- (1) RC-64II (Center)
- (2) RF-82II (Back Surrounds)
- (1) SW-115 (Subwoofer)

And i am thinking on upgrade to this setup:

- (2) P-37F Floorstanding Speakers
- (1) P-27C Center Channel Speaker
- (2) P-27S Surround Speakers
- (2) P-312W Subwoofer

or,

The THX Ultra 2 Setup 5.2

I have a 20 Square Meter Home Theater, it's small, but i expect even more detail from the Palladium...or the THX Ultra 2 Set.

I use the SC-LX90 as Amplifier and soon it will work as a Pre/Pro and will add a Parasound A51 + A21.

EDIT:
Quote:
Originally Posted by MV_Cinema View Post

Yes you are absolutely correct, and i appreciatte your comment. Tank you

I've decided today 100% for the Speakers:

- B&W 803 Diamond (Front)
- B&W HTM2 (Center)
- B&W 805 Diamond (Rears)

Now, as for the Amps, with time and patience i will sell my Pioneer SC-LX90, and i will buy instead 2 options:

- Krell S-1200U + S-1500...later on 1 Evolution 403e for the 2 front channels, and leave the S-1500 only for the rear channels, and 2 possible side channels.

or

- Classe SSP800
- Classe CA5300 (Multichannel)
- Later on... 2 CA-600 for the 2 fronts.
post #140 of 329
Thread Starter 
I had this setup:

- (2) RF-7II (Front)
- (1) RC-64II (Center)
- (2) RF-82II (Back Surrounds)
- (1) SW-115 (Subwoofer)

and sold it...

Now buying again, but without the sub, and replace the sub by 2 SVS. Let's say, i am complicated.... LOL
post #141 of 329
get emo and jtr so flyng_fool can be happy lol
post #142 of 329
Thread Starter 
He's ok smile.gif , in fact all of you are great people, and have patience for me, really tank you so much smile.gif

I am an everyday learner, and have the previlege to learn with all of you is great .
post #143 of 329
Quote:
Originally Posted by MV_Cinema View Post

You are not the first person to tell me it's a gimmick.

Anyway, here's what i did. Going to order my old Klipsch Reference again (the guy from the store is going to call me crazy), canceled the THX Ultra 2, and will decide later what i will put in the dedicated Theater. I am too stressed to make decisions right now...biggrin.gif
Right now i have to be careful otherwise my wife soon send me to a mental institution...LOL

Tell me something, do you think i will gain anything if i buy the ATI and use the Susano as Pre, or just let it be as it is right now?

Yes for a rf-7ii set up. Power amp is a really big help. Will sound better all around
post #144 of 329
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reference_head View Post

Yes for a rf-7ii set up. Power amp is a really big help. Will sound better all around

See you are the first one to tell me it will sound better with the ATI as Amp and Susano only as Pre-power, but most tell is nonsense.

But then i have to connect the ATI "non balanced". I also tough about the Parasound A51, but it has less power....and price is the same. It has THX written..LOL but who cares....
post #145 of 329
Quote:
Originally Posted by MV_Cinema View Post

See you are the first one to tell me it will sound better with the ATI as Amp and Susano only as Pre-power, but most tell is nonsense.

But then i have to connect the ATI "non balanced". I also tough about the Parasound A51, but it has less power....and price is the same. It has THX written..LOL but who cares....

I would get the a51 if the cost is the same
post #146 of 329
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reference_head View Post

I would get the a51 if the cost is the same

Just to correct, price is the same considering ATI 7 Channels, and the A51 is 5 channels. Anyway, in my living room i only use 5 channels, and if i need 2 more channels for example i will alaways have reserve channels from the Susano.

People say very good things about the Parasound...
post #147 of 329
Thread Starter 
Well don't know if this is true, or if they we're offered, but George Lucas Studios had them....
post #148 of 329
Quote:
Originally Posted by MV_Cinema View Post

See you are the first one to tell me it will sound better with the ATI as Amp and Susano only as Pre-power, but most tell is nonsense.

Here are the specs for your Pioneer Susano and I can't imagine it wouldn't drive your Klipsch RF-7II Home theater to Reference Volume: http://www.pioneer.eu/uk/products/archive/SC-LX90/page.html

I posted this earlier in the thread, but here is a link to the Klipsch RF-7IIs measurements: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1412510/klipsch-rf7-ii-measurements

With those details you can make an informed decision. Good Luck.
post #149 of 329
Geez, I just looked at the Susano, it's a beast! I agree with the above poster. An external amp won't give you much if any benefit at all.
post #150 of 329
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyng_fool View Post

Geez, I just looked at the Susano, it's a beast! I agree with the above poster. An external amp won't give you much if any benefit at all.

Measured it goes up to 248watts per channel smile.gif And looks pretty good.

So for now i will add the SVS subs, then let's see what happens later.
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