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136 dB at 20 Hz? New Magico QSub..for the 1% of the 1%! - Page 4

post #91 of 160
Well engineered subs are, at least in one sense, something of a relative bargain. Vibration free (largely) cabinets -- notwithstanding the incredible noise and power they produce and use --, huge driver and magnet complements, powerful amps, and onboard EQ systems (even if often a bit crude), yet typically far less expensive than corresponding or otherwise comparable (passive) loudspeaker monitors and towers. Are crossovers really that expensive? Nevertheless, SPL claims aside, one would hope that subs like these produce cleaner sound than the standard fare.
post #92 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by howaboutthat41 View Post

Well engineered subs are, at least in one sense, something of a relative bargain.
+1. Where subs are concerned the rule of diminishing returns kicks in at a far lower price point than with mains. In terms of sound quality, for $500 you can get results that amount to a seven out of ten. $2k can get results that amount to a nine on a scale of ten. For $3k you can get a ten out of ten. More money than that can get you bigger, which translates to louder, but the sound quality won't get any better, because it's just not all that difficult to reach sonic perfection when the highest frequency passed is only 100Hz.
Quote:
one would hope that subs like these produce cleaner sound than the standard fare
They won't do any better than something else 1/10 the price. Once you reach 'as good as it gets' there isn't any further improvement to be made. I won't play the 'more money than brains' card, because for the most part stupid people can't afford $36k subs. I can say with no uncertainty that they won't sell any of these to anyone who actually understands how subwoofers work. But I'd place that percentage of the populace even smaller than the 1% who can afford them.
post #93 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by braveheart123 View Post

$36000 for one sub. I feel sorry for the one who buys it and then falls victim to room modes.:

The price actually isn't too far out of line. Consider that standard margins in audio are 5x parts cost, and anyone's going to get whatever brand premium they can.

Two Aurasound NS18-992-4A's cost about $1850-1900 shipped.
The power spec suggests to me a SpeakerPower 3200W/4Ω plate amp, at about $1500. That is an amp commensurate in quality to the Aurasound driver.

So, in a standard cabinet, that would be a $17,000 subwoofer. Magico thinks their aluminum cabinet is worth a 100% price premium, basically. If people buy the subs in quantities equal to or higher than other subwoofers priced similarly (assuming there are any), they're right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

So this supposedly is using two Aurasound NS18's. Possibly, I'm not sure.

I knew it from the first picture, because of the pointy dustcap. If you want more evidence, consider this graphic they released:



Oh, and here's a picture of the bass driver in a previous Magico sub:



So yeah, I'm fairly convinced that, price excluded, there probably isn't a better commercially-offered sub out there, simply because there's nothing else with that excellent SpeakerPower amp powering a pair of Aurasound NS18's. Someone at this wealth level who is into audio to enjoy music is probably more interested in commissioning a bespoke item for her/his home than buying some mere off-the-peg product like this Magico thing. Such a person can equal or exceed the product for about $3400 in audio parts (amp, drivers) and cabinet costs being whatever the artisan sets for the dimensions and the desired finish.
Edited by DS-21 - 9/13/13 at 3:14pm
post #94 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtpsuper24 View Post

We have speed limits and way too much traffic so why buy a $250,000 Ferrari that goes 3 secs to 60mph and 200+ top speed, when a $20,000 Honda Accord does the speed limit just fine biggrin.gif

Yeah, but the guy who gets to 0 to 60 in 3 seconds has the better sex life. smile.gif
post #95 of 160
I love how that Aurasound driver looks biggrin.gif
post #96 of 160
Those are some really sweet looking drivers, but isn't the main question everyone is trying to argue is if this sub can actually hit the claimed numbers that they are trying to say it will.
post #97 of 160
ds-21 actually makes a good point...as a rough percentage markup over costs/parts and then further considering that margins on premium products tend to be even higher because quantities sold tend to be lower...the price isn't all that far out of bounds for what you get. the performance claim is just absurd though....
post #98 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by DS-21 View Post


I knew it from the first picture, because of the pointy dustcap. If you want more evidence, consider this graphic they released:

It's plainly obvious now but before I had only seen the picture in the link from the first post and it didn't look like the Aura straight out and the dustcap didn't appear pointy.
post #99 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

Those are some really sweet looking drivers, but isn't the main question everyone is trying to argue is if this sub can actually hit the claimed numbers that they are trying to say it will.

I don't think anyone's arguing that the numbers make sense. Nor are they particularly relevant. The only thing 136dB at 20Hz will do is break things.
post #100 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by DS-21 View Post

I don't think anyone's arguing that the numbers make sense. Nor are they particularly relevant. The only thing 136dB at 20Hz will do is break things.

So the consensus is that it can indeed hit 136dB @ 20hz with only 1% THD?
post #101 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

So the consensus is that it can indeed hit 136dB @ 20hz with only 1% THD?

No but it still depends on where we draw the line. One can make up all sorts of claims when we aren't stating more specifics like ..... listening distance, room size, the actual placement of the sub itself. Important stuff like that.

I'm sorry but if someone is trying to get 136dB @ 20hz from two Aurasound 18's in a single sealed enclosure...... well.... keep pining.


EDIT: Since I posted actual figures on the first page when we thought these could be LMS-Ultra equivalents, I'll post something new now that we know they are NS18's.


So a single NS18 is mechanically capable of barely 110dB @ 20hz. Add a second and let's pretend we get the full +6dB. That's barely 116dB @ 20hz at 1 meter distance 2pi space. Gotta make up 20dB of output according to the ad. Oh and do all that while maintaining 1% and do it all at the listening position.

Btw, 20dB is 100 times the power. Also I might get 136dB in my 2,000cuft when I install TWELVE 18" subwoofers.
Edited by Scott Simonian - 9/13/13 at 4:08pm
post #102 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by DS-21 View Post

I don't think anyone's arguing that the numbers make sense. Nor are they particularly relevant. The only thing 136dB at 20Hz will do is break things.

So the consensus is that it can indeed hit 136dB @ 20hz with only 1% THD?

No, the consensus is that they're full of it, on that and on other claims made.

My thought is that it doesn't matter, because it's still going to be a great sub assembled using the best parts money can buy. It looks like it belongs in a warehouse, though.
post #103 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by DS-21 View Post

No, the consensus is that they're full of it, on that and on other claims made.

My thought is that it doesn't matter, because it's still going to be a great sub assembled using the best parts money can buy.

This is true. The sad part is that this might be one of the best subwoofers on the market for any price. It still is an unbelievable rip off. tongue.gif
post #104 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

So the consensus is that it can indeed hit 136dB @ 20hz with only 1% THD?
No, not by any standard reference measurement, typically 1/2 space. Andy did the maths in #62. To get to that you are at full displacement (Xmax) and I doubt seriously that the Aura is that clean at Xmax. You'd need good measurements from a reputable source to convince me otherwise.
post #105 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by A9X-308 View Post

No, not by any standard reference measurement, typically 1/2 space. Andy did the maths in #62. To get to that you are at full displacement (Xmax) and I doubt seriously that the Aura is that clean at Xmax. You'd need good measurements from a reputable source to convince me otherwise.

Yeah, we gotta get an Aura NS18 to Josh for testing. I'd be VERY curious if he could compare it to the TC 5100 pro too.
post #106 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

So the consensus is that it can indeed hit 136dB @ 20hz with only 1% THD?

No, wrapped in no, on planet no, tested by Dr. No, topped with hell no.
post #107 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by bossobass View Post

No, wrapped in no, on planet no, tested by Dr. No, topped with hell no.

Haha that's what I thought. In my head I was thinking how the hell is that even possible.
post #108 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by A9X-308 View Post

No, not by any standard reference measurement, typically 1/2 space. Andy did the maths in #62. To get to that you are at full displacement (Xmax) and I doubt seriously that the Aura is that clean at Xmax. You'd need good measurements from a reputable source to convince me otherwise.

I've provided more detail of the calculation in this Audioholics post. I posted it there because I didn't think this forum supported superscripts and subscripts, but apparently it does!
post #109 of 160
I don't think they will be using of the shelf drivers It would be rare if they did.
post #110 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnbr View Post

I don't think they will be using of the shelf drivers It would be rare if they did.
It's far more likely that they're using stock drivers than OEM, as the minimum order quantities for one of a kind OEMs are pretty steep. You can reach them if you're selling thousands of speakers per year, but I doubt that's the case here.
post #111 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by bossobass View Post

No, wrapped in no, on planet no, tested by Dr. No, topped with hell no.


post #112 of 160
They're not, according to the picture. The motor covers look like they're painted red, whereas the stock ones are black.

I have a 12" variant (NS12-794-4A) with the whole basket painted "Ferrari red," and a flat dustcap. I'll add pics below when I find them.
Edited by DS-21 - 9/15/13 at 7:19am
post #113 of 160
Considering the price of the sub their selling, it could be a modified version of the sub driver. The metal housing could be original, but the other parts could easily be changed without costing so much.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

It's far more likely that they're using stock drivers than OEM, as the minimum order quantities for one of a kind OEMs are pretty steep. You can reach them if you're selling thousands of speakers per year, but I doubt that's the case here.
post #114 of 160
"I've provided more detail of the calculation..."

not that it really matters, but the sd on that driver is around 1164 cm^2 (cone and half surround method), so the numbers come in a few db less.
post #115 of 160
"They're not, according to the picture. The motor covers look like they're painted red, whereas the stock ones are black."

you got me...LOLOLOL...
post #116 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

"They're not, according to the picture. The motor covers look like they're painted red, whereas the stock ones are black."

you got me...LOLOLOL...
Maybe the red covers get's them the extra 20dB? biggrin.gif
post #117 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by qguy View Post

Considering the price of the sub their selling, it could be a modified version of the sub driver. The metal housing could be original, but the other parts could easily be changed without costing so much.

You don't seem to understand how the Aura NRT motor works. If anything material was changed that would lead to better performance (for example, a longer throw) then the back cap would need to be longer.

The cone and suspension are clearly the same. That's how I knew from the first picture of the Magico sub that it was an Aurasound driver.

Though I suppose you're right in that Magico could well have degraded the driver relative to the stock unit, by for example not using the copper-sleeved polepiece of the stock Aurasound NS18-992-4A and substituting an unplated pole. After all, a $900 driver is expensive. And they use two of 'em. That's far more expensive than the driver in basically any other driver in any other commercial subwoofer.

Here are those "Ferrari Red" NS12-794-4A pictures promised above:







Edited by DS-21 - 9/15/13 at 7:18am
post #118 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

not that it really matters, but the sd on that driver is around 1164 cm^2 (cone and half surround method), so the numbers come in a few db less.

I didn't know at the time what driver was being used, so I gave them the benefit of the doubt. biggrin.gif
post #119 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by DS-21 View Post

Though I suppose you're right in that Magico could well have degraded the driver relative to the stock unit, by for example not using the copper-sleeved polepiece of the stock Aurasound NS18-992-4A and substituting an unplated pole.
+1. Manufacturers tend to lead you to believe that OEM drivers are superior to off the shelf. In most cases the opposite is the case. They buy OEM to save money, and that as often as not translates into a lesser driver, if anything. Perhaps a different paint job, or less expensive input terminals, sometimes different cones or coils. Eminence for one tests at least ten different versions of new drivers before picking one for the off the shelf model, and that's the one that they feel is the best overall performer of the bunch. The rest they offer as OEM options.
post #120 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

Maybe the red covers get's them the extra 20dB? biggrin.gif

That was my thinking anyway. Can't wait to load one up biggrin.gif
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