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Sony VPL-VW500ES - 4k Projector - 2013 - Page 22

post #631 of 1083
For anyone obsessing about the loudness of fans...

Before I got my 2nd CRT projector (that had a bunch of fans in it) I was worrying about fan noise. I happened to go see a movie during the day time (with almost no crowd) and from my seating position I could hear the projector going. At that point I figured, "hey, it's part of the movie experience" and just forgot about it.

Turns out the CRT wasn't that loud anyway. As for these smaller, single lens projectors I find that the most offensive thing is the frequency of the noise, i.e. if there is a whine then it is annoying, but just a whirr isn't so bad.

As Mark said, if you are going to ceiling-mount and it is really a big deal, then just build a pretty hush box around it.

As for me, if it isn't super loud or making a weird noise/whine then I'm okay.

Just my 2 cents.

B.

Gear mentioned in this thread:

post #632 of 1083
A little whining from a projector is a lot less bothersome to me than reading posts whining about potential installation issues with a new projector not yet shipping.. And dealing with projector noise is a potential installation issue dependent on a variety of factors only one of which is the published noise spec. The spec is usually weighted C but that really doesn't tell you that much about the type of noise, just its loundness at the measuring distance. Then where you sit, room damping, ceiling damping (sheet rock vs acoustical tiles), yada yada. If it ends up being bothersome there are ways of dealing with it short of a full fledge hush box.
post #633 of 1083
Sony Japan just announced its domestic version of VW500ES. The MSRP is only 840,000 Yen, or
USD 8,629... I got a feeling many folks will be opting for parallel imports from Japan with such a huge disparity in price across the Pacific....

http://www.sony.jp/video-projector/products/VPL-VW500ES/
post #634 of 1083
In a report about VW1100RS JP release.....

".........4K/60p信号(4:2:0)の入力に対応し、既存のハイスピードケーブルで伝送可能。なお、HDCP 2.2への対応については「非公開」としている。........"

http://av.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/news/20131009_618697.html


After Google translated :

"In response to the input signal of .........4K/60p (4:2:0), can be transmitted at high speed cable existing. In addition, I have a "private" for responding to HDCP 2.2. ........"


Secend, JP release model should not compatible to US 4K server........
post #635 of 1083
When the D-day come you can find some supplier here: http://kakaku.com
Please use Google translating.

Just send them an email, whether they export Japanese brand products to oversea directly or not.
IF NO then you have to join http://www.tenso.com/en/

When you place an order by wire transfer, tell the supplier to ship the parcel to address of tenso office in Tokyo, then tenso ship it oversea by EMS.

The EMS shipping are very resonable IMO.
http://www.tenso.com/en/guide/fee/index.html

The parcel should weight about 30kg, then the handling fee / shipping to USA should be (3980 + 36000)yen

Beware the bank fee and customs duties of USA are not included.

Hope this can help you.
post #636 of 1083
That sounds like a warranty / logistical nightmare. What happens when it arrives and has an issue, no US warranty, etc.
post #637 of 1083
Quote:
Originally Posted by terri View Post

Sony Japan just announced its domestic version of VW500ES. The MSRP is only 840,000 Yen, or
USD 8,629... I got a feeling many folks will be opting for parallel imports from Japan with such a huge disparity in price across the Pacific....

http://www.sony.jp/video-projector/products/VPL-VW500ES/

This will just add more fire to those who feel Sony overpriced the unit in the US. I would suspect that something could change if initial sales are slow.
post #638 of 1083
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

That sounds like a warranty / logistical nightmare. What happens when it arrives and has an issue, no US warranty, etc.

No big deal.

I live in Hong Kong.
I am supposed to ship back my 1000ES to JP for the upgrade in the future.

Nowaday the price of warranty 1000ES still cost USD 21800, that' s why I choosed the grey market one which costed me less than USD 13000.
post #639 of 1083
Quote:
Originally Posted by rwestley View Post

This will just add more fire to those who feel Sony overpriced the unit in the US. I would suspect that something could change if initial sales are slow.

It's not a 'feeling'... it's a fact.. Sony did overpriced their US models... because they can...

I guess if you put a positive spin on things, US always have the cheaper prices compared to us Asians.. now, the role has reversed for the first time.. so, it's not that bad overall...
post #640 of 1083
That's what the internet does in the international market. Everything depends on the price delta between buying overseas and in the US for a foreign manufactured good. More hassles potentially but savings. A smart manufacturer err controls prices so as to not set up a system encouraging gray imports or exports. Usually, that means having no more than a 20% price differential. When street price differentials are 40% or higher, a huge gray market system will break out. This is history, nothing more, nothing less. Many end up unhappy with a decision to purchase gray, others end up happy. Many many people's primary objective in life is to pay the lowest price they possibly can for every item they purchases. The sad part about this is that all go to their graves knowing that they failed many many times. There is always cheaper somewhere.
post #641 of 1083
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

That's what the internet does in the international market. Everything depends on the price delta between buying overseas and in the US for a foreign manufactured good. More hassles potentially but savings. A smart manufacturer err controls prices so as to not set up a system encouraging gray imports or exports. Usually, that means having no more than a 20% price differential. When street price differentials are 40% or higher, a huge gray market system will break out. This is history, nothing more, nothing less. Many end up unhappy with a decision to purchase gray, others end up happy. Many many people's primary objective in life is to pay the lowest price they possibly can for every item they purchases. The sad part about this is that all go to their graves knowing that they failed many many times. There is always cheaper somewhere.

I agree Mark, but the difference this time is much too much. I was at CEDIA and you should have heard all the people complaining about the price difference with Europe. I would not be surprised to see a change before the unit is released. Sony does not want to tick off early buyers by reducing prices quickly after the release.
post #642 of 1083
The obvious solution is for Sony to raise prices overseas!
post #643 of 1083
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

The obvious solution is for Sony to raise prices overseas!

Probably too late for that. It is always easier to lower than to raise prices on electronics.
post #644 of 1083
Nah. I am sure my solution would have great popularity among AV Science Forum members. smile.gif
post #645 of 1083
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Nah. I am sure my solution would have great popularity among AV Science Forum members. smile.gif

HAHAHA biggrin.gif
post #646 of 1083
To me the price differential isn't just about fairness (I'm not too concerned with fairness of pricing with toys), but about cost of ownership. I care most what it costs me to own things. Moreso than cost to purchase in general.

I look for a kind of rubber band or spring effect. As an example, when Panasonic announced that their AE4000 would sell for $1999 I figured that they had pushed hard to get under the magic $2k barrier and that their pricing would have been higher otherwise. This gave me some confidence that it would hold its resale value somewhat well. I think it turned out that way too, since the next year Panasonic didn't release a new model and were able to keep their $1999 street price.

This time I see the opposite for US buyers of the 500ES. This time the spring is set for pricing of that level of quality to possible drop quickly next year given Sony's pricing in the rest of the world. If Sony releases another projector next year will they keep the same kind of disparity? If not they could play catchup by raising relative prices in most of the world or by lowing them in the US (or a combination). Also, if JVC or another company release a true 4K next year worldwide will they do the same kind of pricing difference with the US higher? I doubt it.

While there is the emotional side of not being willing to pay a higher price than the rest of the world just because somebody (or some group) at Sony US preferred higher prices (my guess), for me this kind of thing is more about my lack in faith in resale value for these projectors a year or more from now.

--Darin
post #647 of 1083
In projectors, the higher the price of the unit, the higher the cost of ownership will be. That's a given. The Sony 1000ES didn't follow that rule. The cost of ownership after the upgrade to the new model will be less than the cost of the new model and one gets the same thing.
post #648 of 1083
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

In projectors, the higher the price of the unit, the higher the cost of ownership will be. That's a given. The Sony 1000ES didn't follow that rule. The cost of ownership after the upgrade to the new model will be less than the cost of the new model and one gets the same thing.
It's a given in general, but the factor I mentioned still applies. This disparity in pricing with higher prices in the US creates another factor on top of the normal higher cost of ownership.

The factor in Europe is somewhat the opposite with the rubber band or spring going to the other way and if I was in Europe this disparity in pricing would give me a little more confidence about cost of ownership if I decided to buy one and keep it for just a year or so.

--Darin
post #649 of 1083
Quote:
Originally Posted by darinp2 View Post

To me the price differential isn't just about fairness (I'm not too concerned with fairness of pricing with toys), but about cost of ownership. I care most what it costs me to own things. Moreso than cost to purchase in general.

I look for a kind of rubber band or spring effect. As an example, when Panasonic announced that their AE4000 would sell for $1999 I figured that they had pushed hard to get under the magic $2k barrier and that their pricing would have been higher otherwise. This gave me some confidence that it would hold its resale value somewhat well. I think it turned out that way too, since the next year Panasonic didn't release a new model and were able to keep their $1999 street price.

This time I see the opposite for US buyers of the 500ES. This time the spring is set for pricing of that level of quality to possible drop quickly next year given Sony's pricing in the rest of the world. If Sony releases another projector next year will they keep the same kind of disparity? If not they could play catchup by raising relative prices in most of the world or by lowing them in the US (or a combination). Also, if JVC or another company release a true 4K next year worldwide will they do the same kind of pricing difference with the US higher? I doubt it.

While there is the emotional side of not being willing to pay a higher price than the rest of the world just because somebody (or some group) at Sony US preferred higher prices (my guess), for me this kind of thing is more about my lack in faith in resale value for these projectors a year or more from now.

--Darin

I almost look at it the other way, I don't look at resale at all when I buy a projector, rather I look at value. Value of course is a very squishy thing, you an poke and prod it 6 ways to Sunday and come up with a different answer each time, I guess for me it's more a "feeling" of value. I think my first projector was $3000, it was a disaster (those things happen) next two were less I think. Current one was more. Oddly my current projector, the most expensive one of the bunch has had the lowest overall cost of ownership (cost/year). But this is all sort of beside my point. I picked each one based on where I was comfortable based on overall value.

A while back I called AVS about VW1000 B-stocks and I've got to admit those are a pretty great value, unfortunately still to expensive. But that's really what killed my interest in the VW600, it's just way too close in price to the VW1000.

I think the thing that "aggravates" the potential US buyers the most, especially now, is that it's clear that even Sony really doesn't "value" the projector that high. Now you can't really compare Japan and US prices since the markets work different (Japan isn't as much of a bargaining culture, the price often is what it is), but still when you factor in the Japanese price and Sony's SURE policy, it really seems like the MSRP in the US should have been $10k. Oddly that would have lined up almost perfectly across the globe, ~$9k in Japan, $10k minus some discount but plus tax in the US, $10k including VAT but maybe minus some discount in the EU. It would have been within 10% worldwide. To me, I guess it's just further confirmation that Sony US is out of touch with the world and their market.
post #650 of 1083
Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

I almost look at it the other way, I don't look at resale at all when I buy a projector, rather I look at value.
I believe I look at value too. It is just that when I look at what I get vs cost I lean toward using the cost I will ultimately be out, not as much the cost to buy the projector in the first place. So, my "feeling" of value includes some gut feeling about what my net cost is likely to be in the end.

For instance, if I knew somebody who could get me a deal on a projector for say $8k and I was pretty confident I could sell it for $7k in a year, I may feel better financially doing that over paying $3k for a projector I think will be worth $1800 in a year. Even though the former is more out of pocket it may actually impact my total net worth years from now less.

If I was considering between say the 500ES and the top of the line JVC (or 2nd JVC down) I might make a different choice being in the US versus if I lived in Europe because the value proposition is a little different given local pricing.

--Darin
post #651 of 1083
I bet the 600ES Sony would have been lower in the US if they had any competition at all. When I read about the low Japanese price the first thing that popped into my head was they pricing it at $15K in the US because they can.
post #652 of 1083
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geof View Post

I bet the 600ES Sony would have been lower in the US if they had any competition at all. When I read about the low Japanese price the first thing that popped into my head was they pricing it at $15K in the US because they can.

Projectors aren't like gasolene. Sony can't just put the price point to where ever and expect people to buy it at that price because people don't need to buy that product. If they speculate lower than optimal sales they'll lower the price. If not, they're going to keep the price point exactly where it is. They keep the price at $15K not just because they can, but also because the market will currently bear it.

I said this earlier, but if JVC brought a UHD projector to market this year it would have to be at a similar price point to stay competitive in terms of overall picture quality, features, and support. That price would be getting the same "why isn't it lower?" question. It think JVC made the right decision to wait another year so they can put out a competing product in a range that JVC normally competes in. Next year we'll probably see a $8000 JVC UHD and an $8000 Sony 4K machine.
post #653 of 1083
I suspect Sony provides a higher level of support for its products in the US and in order to do that, the expenses for that support need to be recouped. I would guess dealer cost in the US is higher than in Japan and Europe as well. If so, Sony would have to lower its dealer cost in the US and I suspect lay off some of its support staff here. The other issue is dealer margin. Margin for its own stores and for its independent dealers.
post #654 of 1083
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolgeek View Post

It's not a 'feeling'... it's a fact.. Sony did overpriced their US models... because they can...

I guess if you put a positive spin on things, US always have the cheaper prices compared to us Asians.. now, the role has reversed for the first time.. so, it's not that bad overall...

Agreed. They did the same thing a few years back when they were in between the ruby and pearl models - they put the VW80 out overseas for less than half the price of the VW70 here, taking sure pricing into account. The bottom line is they think there are folks in the US willing to pay that much more, which is why they left such a hole in their ES lineup. They have essentially skipped the middle line.
post #655 of 1083
To those unhappy with the price:

Out of curiosity, what would you guys have been comfortable paying for the Sony VW500ES this year?
post #656 of 1083
Most wanted the MSRP at $10000 and wanted street probably around $8500.
post #657 of 1083
Well, the people who are looking at this projector should hold off and maybe send Sony a message that they won't stand for their pricing schemes. I was very close to pulling the trigger but decided to wait it out. I feel if the prices are this different around the world, the US version will get a big price cut at some point and all the early adopters will be quite annoyed. I'd also have no problems getting one shipped out from Japan is the price difference was that vast. Thats crazy.
post #658 of 1083
Holding out
post #659 of 1083
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geof View Post

I bet the 600ES Sony would have been lower in the US if they had any competition at all. When I read about the low Japanese price the first thing that popped into my head was they pricing it at $15K in the US because they can.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

Projectors aren't like gasolene. Sony can't just put the price point to where ever and expect people to buy it at that price because people don't need to buy that product. If they speculate lower than optimal sales they'll lower the price. If not, they're going to keep the price point exactly where it is. They keep the price at $15K not just because they can, but also because the market will currently bear it.

I said this earlier, but if JVC brought a UHD projector to market this year it would have to be at a similar price point to stay competitive in terms of overall picture quality, features, and support. That price would be getting the same "why isn't it lower?" question. It think JVC made the right decision to wait another year so they can put out a competing product in a range that JVC normally competes in. Next year we'll probably see a $8000 JVC UHD and an $8000 Sony 4K machine.

I disagree with your argument. JVC's top of the line model is a pseudo-4K with an MSRP of $12K....Sony is selling a "true 4K" [ahem] with an MSRP of $15K. From a casual perspective of many buyers this will seem appropriate. There are a lot of folks who've already posted in this forum about being unhappy that JVC did not introduce a real 4K projector so there is already demand for 4K projectors in this country (where average screen sizes are larger than in Japan for example). I'd even go so far as to suggest Sony will sell more 600ES projectors int he US than they'll sell 500ES projectors in Japan, even with the large price discrepancy.
post #660 of 1083
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geof View Post


I disagree with your argument. JVC's top of the line model is a pseudo-4K with an MSRP of $12K....Sony is selling a "true 4K" [ahem] with an MSRP of $15K. From a casual perspective of many buyers this will seem appropriate. There are a lot of folks who've already posted in this forum about being unhappy that JVC did not introduce a real 4K projector so there is already demand for 4K projectors in this country (where average screen sizes are larger than in Japan for example). I'd even go so far as to suggest Sony will sell more 600ES projectors int he US than they'll sell 500ES projectors in Japan, even with the large price discrepancy.

The msrp is $12k to $15k, but there is a huge street price difference in the US. Then add the fact that the rs57 is close to the rs67, the street price between the 500/600ES is well over double the price of the rs57.
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