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Large Ported Dayton HO18's - Page 2

post #31 of 999
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post

I would really like to make these two giant enclosures look as nice as possible. I would prefer to use some 3/4" plywood just for the fact that I can stain it a very nice dark color, as opposed to MDF which would not look as good with stain.

My local Home Depot & Lowes both have 3/4 birch and 3/4" pine in the precut 2' by 4' and 2' by 2' panels, although I am not sure if the birch is Baltic Birch because it just says "Birch" on the sign. Also, how do you guys think Pine would work? I really wish I knew where to get some nice veneer because that way I could use MDF and still get a nice finish.

the birch at Home depot is CRAP... it's only birch on the outside and very soft pine with voids on the inside. the best ply at home depot is Arauco ply... but you won't get it in 2x4 sheets.

the pine at HD is pure garbage for the most part. cheap glue holding the veneers together... not recommended. from what I gather Arauco is the lowest quality ply you want. otherwise go mdf
post #32 of 999
Thread Starter 
Many thanks to all of you guys who are helping me with this! Especially LTD02!

The HO18's will arrive on Tuesday, and I plan to hopefully have the cabinets done within a week. I will be going to the store to buy the panels today.

Can any of you guys tell me what is the best sequence that I should follow with regards to assembling the panels?
post #33 of 999
"What do you guys think of incorporating much lighter 3/4 ply of some sort instead of MDF? Of course VF BB would be best. If weight is no problem then just discard, but if it is a concern, the ply would come in so much lighter. The last two 4 cf sealed I built out of two layers of mdf must come in at close to 150 lbs apiece."

that would be just fine. ply tends to be slightly off dimension though, 3/4" is really 11/16" for example or something like that. just need to adjust measurements accordingly.

"with LTD02,s dimensions the box would be 10.55 cu ft net..."

I calculated exactly 12 cubic feet before driver and bracing using the actual internal dimensions of the enclosure. the online calculator is a guestimator...but whether it works out to net 10.5 or net 11, it will perform the same.

"I wonder why you model with 820 watt. As far as i know 880 watt is the peak value for inuke, corresponding to ~620 watt RMS."

that is the number listed as peak in the manual:
http://www.behringer.com/assets/NU1000_NU3000_NU6000_NU12000_NU1000DSP_NU3000DSP_NU6000DSP_NU12000DSP_WebBrochure.pdf

"Not if he's running the amp bridged. U can get more than 820 watts out of an inuke 3000"

marty will be running one driver per channel at a nominal 4 ohms, for 1640 watts peak total to 2 drivers.
Edited by LTD02 - 9/8/13 at 9:52pm
post #34 of 999
"I really wish I knew where to get some nice veneer because that way I could use MDF and still get a nice finish."

there are several places on the internet that sell veneer.

http://www.woodcraft.com/category/1005150/veneer-sheets.aspx

http://www.veneersupplies.com/

http://woodworking.rockler.com/c/wood-veneer

another option is to use vinyl with a wood like finish, like many commercial subwoofers do.

http://www.parts-express.com/term/vinyl-veneer?srch=vinyl+veneer

http://www.parts-express.com/resources/vinyl-how-to-guide.cfm
post #35 of 999
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post

I would really like to make these two giant enclosures look as nice as possible. I would prefer to use some 3/4" plywood just for the fact that I can stain it a very nice dark color, as opposed to MDF which would not look as good with stain.

My local Home Depot & Lowes both have 3/4 birch and 3/4" pine in the precut 2' by 4' and 2' by 2' panels, although I am not sure if the birch is Baltic Birch because it just says "Birch" on the sign. Also, how do you guys think Pine would work? I really wish I knew where to get some nice veneer because that way I could use MDF and still get a nice finish.

Yeah I see guys building SW out of all kinds of wood these days with good results, but I have always went the MDF route in the past. My brother runs a plywood mill so I get all kinds of different products free. I have a project going that’s on the small side and weight is a big issue so I broke down and decided to try something different than the standard MDF. BB cost wise would really ad up with your size enclosures so maybe it’s not a option? it would really keep the weight down though. Anyway bracing is very important also and ads weight. My Avatar sub is MDF and it was one heavy dude. As to keep costs down I use the paper backed Bandit veneer over at PE. http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=260-050 It’s not considered quality, but I get good results from it and ease of use. I haven't had any problems with it peeling over the years but I have noticed a few complain. Preparation is a good thing regarding and of course bracing no matter what you choose to go with. cool.gif

EDIT> I can post a few pics for you or VI PM if you want to look at the veneer more closely.
Edited by steve nn - 9/8/13 at 5:51am
post #36 of 999
"Can any of you guys tell me what is the best sequence that I should follow with regards to assembling the panels?"

dry fit everything first to make sure that all the cuts have been done properly!

then glue the panels together starting from the bottom and work your way up. :-)
post #37 of 999
^^^ +1 The only thing I would ad is not to beat yourself up if something is over a 16 or an 8th, that’s one of the good things a trim bit is good for. smile.gif
post #38 of 999
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post


"with LTD02,s dimensions the box would be 10.55 cu ft net..."

I calculated exactly 12 cubic feet before driver and bracing using the actual internal dimensions of the enclosure. the online calculator is a guestimator...but whether it works out to net 10.5 or net 11, it will perform the same.

yeah, I realized my calculations were off slightly. I forgot to add the 3/4 thickness of the top and bottom into the enclosure so the height is really 25.5 not 24... that was the difference I was calculating... just a 1.5 inch mistake on my calculations
post #39 of 999
i agree with you, 0.707 * 820 is about what you would call the rms number or about 600 watts or so. P5zQBq
post #40 of 999
"yeah, I realized my calculations were off slightly. I forgot to add the 3/4 thickness of the top and bottom into the enclosure so the height is really 25.5 not 24... that was the difference I was calculating... just a 1.5 inch mistake on my calculations."

no worries, i got it confused as well. last night, using a geometric overlay, I got 12 cubic feet right on the button.

then when I checked the math using exact dimensional calculations this morning, I got something closer to 11.2 cubic feet, but I did the same thing that you did. the enclosure is 25.5 tall total, not 24.

making that adjustment to the math lands internal volume at 11.97 cubic feet before bracing and driver. so, it's all good.

thanks for keeping me on my toes! :-)

.
Edited by LTD02 - 9/8/13 at 11:40am
post #41 of 999
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

"yeah, I realized my calculations were off slightly. I forgot to add the 3/4 thickness of the top and bottom into the enclosure so the height is really 25.5 not 24... that was the difference I was calculating... just a 1.5 inch mistake on my calculations."

no worries, i got it confused as well. last night, using a geometric overlay, I got 12 cubic feet right on the button.

then when I checked the math using exact dimensional calculations this morning, I got something closer to 11.2 cubic feet, but I did the same thing that you did. the enclosure is 25.5 tall total, not 24.

making that adjustment to the math lands internal volume at 11.97 cubic feet before bracing and driver. so, it's all good.

thanks for keeping me on my toes! :-)

.

lol, no problem, I was running the numbers like crazy cuz you've seen in my build thread that I'm going with SI 18's and have a very similar situation... am REALLY liking the simplicity of this plan... I think 4 SI 18's in those boxes should do VERY well biggrin.gif
post #42 of 999
oh, and for your front baffle. were you doing a double front baffle to cut down on vibrations.... i was thinking of doing the same design but for braces run four 1.5x1.5's from the front around the cone are to the back... didn't know if that would be enough for the front and back panel...(basically 1 in the center of the "corner" area around the woofer)
post #43 of 999
This project really got me motivated! I just ordered the HO18 w/ flatpack kit from PE (which is back ordered...) after considering a similar build since finishing my Cheap Thrills cool.gif

I designed and rejected a number of LLT variants (including a Sonotube version) in WinISD, but in the end I was swayed by all the bassophiles that seem to end up with a bunch of sealed 18's scattered about their rooms. Part of my problem was that most of the LLT designs I considered ended up with port resonances that extended too close to the operating band or port velocities that were too high...mad.gif

Well...today I saw this thread and said F**& It! I'm gonna build a Marty Sub.

The Handy Panels at Home Depot were a bit more expensive than buying a full sheet and having them cut it down to size, so I bought 2 2'x4' Handy Panels and had HD crosscut a sheet of MDF into 4 2'x4' panels. I also bought a couple of 1"x12"x8' boards that I plan to rip into thirds and then crosscut for bracing. A $100 later, I was on my way home with my wood and a tube of PL3X. I used the two Handy Panels for the sides, because these two pieces are the most critical. Virtually all the other pieces will either be recessed to some degree (and therefore cut down to size such as the Front and Back) or will overhang an adjacent panel and can be trimmed with an edge trimmer in the router.

I selected the narrowest 2'x4' panel as the bottom, then glued/clamped/nailed the two Handy Panel sides in place using a large square to keep the corners 90 degrees. My wife is already worried...eek.gif


post #44 of 999
"today I saw this thread and said F**& It! I'm gonna build a Marty Sub."

BRAVO!
post #45 of 999
Nice man. Those will be beasts. I got 4 so 18s on the way to make a wall of marty sub's across my 12 foot wide sound stage
post #46 of 999
since it is likely to come up, here is the marty sub with highpass and eq, 820 watts and a 4 cubic foot sealed 820 watts. both run the driver up to around 19-20mm which is about the usable excursion for the 460ho driver.

post #47 of 999
"I got 4 so 18s on the way to make a wall of marty sub's across my 12 foot wide sound stage"

BRAVO!

stereo integrity 18's right?

i know that you know worm, but since a lot of folks will ask how that driver will perform, here it is compared with the dayton driver. pretty much identical performance! [subjectively mastermaybe who has had both indicates that the dayton may have a small advantage on the music side while the stereo integrity gets a nod on the home theater side, but the differences are small and both drivers are good at both music and movies.]


Edited by LTD02 - 9/8/13 at 9:47pm
post #48 of 999
Yup. Stereo integrity 18,s. Now I just got to find a nice sale on a pair of ep4000s. (I only have a dedicated 20 amp circuit and a 15 amp circuit so I can't run a single beast like the ipr7500 or cv5000)

And you're right. The so 18,s model near identical to the Dayton's
Edited by wormraper - 9/8/13 at 10:01pm
post #49 of 999
What type of black paint do you like to use for the vent prior to assembly?
post #50 of 999
Thread Starter 
Update as of Monday 9-9-2013.

I will be picking up the handy panels today. Don't worry, I will take lots of pics!

The subs should be in tomrorrow. The guy that I bought my iNuke3000 from should be getting my payment tomorrow or Wednesday. So I am hoping to have the enclosures built and drivers installed by the time the amp gets here this weekend.

Now I just need to order the terminal cups, wire, and get a round over bit & a straight cut bit for my router. Does anyon have any suggestions on speaker wire? What gauge? Is a straight cut bit what I need for making the baffle cut outs for the drivers?
post #51 of 999
I would use something around 12-14g. Yip, a straight cut bit will do the job. Sounds like things are moveing right along cool.gif
post #52 of 999
I have been really happy using the Parts Express CL2 rated 12g speaker wire. It strips easily, has a nice flexibility and takes solder readily, as well.

Mike
post #53 of 999
14-12 gauge is fine. really 16 gauge is fine but at monoprice 14 or 12 is not that big a price diff so better safe than sorry
post #54 of 999
"oh, and for your front baffle. were you doing a double front baffle to cut down on vibrations..."

yeah. it just seems like a good idea.

"i was thinking of doing the same design but for braces run four 1.5x1.5's from the front around the cone are to the back... didn't know if that would be enough for the front and back panel..."

ideally, the bracing should hit the center of the panel, as that is where it is weakest, but there also comes a point of "how much does it really matter?" :-)

a google *image* search for subwoofer bracing will pull up hundreds of ideas. try not to leave more than about 12 inches from any one point of bracing to another and/or from a corner and it should be fine.
post #55 of 999
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

"oh, and for your front baffle. were you doing a double front baffle to cut down on vibrations..."

yeah. it just seems like a good idea.

"i was thinking of doing the same design but for braces run four 1.5x1.5's from the front around the cone are to the back... didn't know if that would be enough for the front and back panel..."

ideally, the bracing should hit the center of the panel, as that is where it is weakest, but there also comes a point of "how much does it really matter?" :-)

a google *image* search for subwoofer bracing will pull up hundreds of ideas. try not to leave more than about 12 inches from any one point of bracing to another and/or from a corner and it should be fine.

yeah, that's what I was thinking... I was just wondering how to properly brace that back panel being that the woofer takes up 18 of the 24 inches due to the cutout and I couldn't run braces to the center of that back panel.

as for bracing I'm gonna do criss cross bracing with 1.5x15's (2x2's techinically) every 8 inches being a brace on top/bottom and side/side
post #56 of 999
"as for bracing I'm gonna do criss cross bracing with 1.5x15's (2x2's techinically) every 8 inches being a brace on top/bottom and side/side"

that's a great plan. then one can be connected to the center of a + and aimed right into the back middle panel if you want.
post #57 of 999
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

"as for bracing I'm gonna do criss cross bracing with 1.5x15's (2x2's techinically) every 8 inches being a brace on top/bottom and side/side"

that's a great plan. then one can be connected to the center of a + and aimed right into the back middle panel if you want.

bingo.. that solved my problem
post #58 of 999
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

here is a simple minimum bracing plan. of course, there are countless ways that will work.


very similar to how I was gonna do mine, but I was gonna have 3 going sideways, and 3 going "up and down" in each of those "layers" and do 4 -5 layers of them.. basically a brace every 8 inches in either direction in the sides and top/bottom
post #59 of 999
Thread Starter 
Update as of Tuesday 09-10-2013.

I picked up the handy panels yesterday, but both Lowes & Home Depot were out of the 2' by 2' panels. I plan to go back and get a pair of 2' by 4' MDF panels for the front & rear panels of each enclosure.

These subs will have Birch for the top, bottom & sides, then MDF for the front and rear. I plan to do a round over on the front, not sure about the rest. I will be staining these a very nice deep, dark, almost ebony, but not quite.

I will start on assembly tomorrow! The subs will be in today!
post #60 of 999
Thread Starter 
Also, I have a couple of questions with regards to assembly.

First, is it ok to have the sides of the enclosure standing on the bottom panel, and having the top panel resting on the sides? That is the way it looks in the models that LTD02 made, so I am just checking to make sure that its ok before I start.

If I do it like that, then I won't have to modify or cut the rear 2' by 2' panel at all, right?

Also, I am still confused on the sideways slot port. I just can't see how it can be 21" as by my calculations it would be 24"-0.75-0.75 to total 22.5"? LTD02 said that the braces are 0.75" each and they should be subtracted from the width of the port as well, but I just can't see where or how the braces take anything away from the width?
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