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Sony's new interpolation-free "Motionflow Impulse" is low-lag, and great for HTPC gaming.

post #1 of 8
Thread Starter 
Hello,

Those of you running HTPC's on new Sony HDTV's: HX920 Series, HX923 Series, HX925 Series, HX929 Series, XBR-55HX950, XBR-65HX950, KDL-47W802A (Budget), KDL-55w802A (Budget), KDL-55W900A, W905A Series, XBR-55X900A (4K Ultra), XBR-65X900A (4K Ultra)

1. Load up a fast 60fps game (or use TestUFO Moving Photo Test)
2. Enable Motionflow Impulse. Turn off ambient light sensor for brighter picture.
3. Motion now looks as clear as CRT or plasma. No fake frames or interpolation!

This setting is available in Game Mode. It does flicker like a CRT (because of motion blur eliminating strobe backlight), but it is very high-efficiency, eliminating approximately three-quarters of LCD motion blur. This looks great in 60 frames per second games such as FPS and racing from the HTPC.

Related AVSFORUM Post: New CRT Quality LCD's With Zero Motion Blur
(General thread about strobe backlights, not specific to HTPC's).
Edited by Mark Rejhon - 9/9/13 at 1:51pm
post #2 of 8
Thanks for the post - it is very relevant for this subforum.

However, I do have to ask the obvious: what does "low-lag" mean? If it is below one frame of lag, that would be outstanding. If it is around one frame, that's still very good. Two frames of lag is acceptable for many gamers unless they are in to fighters or music games, three becomes a barely accetable level for almost any gamer, and more than that is completely unacceptable.

So how many lag frames exist with this new tech turned on? And if the feature is turned off in Game Mode, what are the lag frames then? How was the lag detected? Maybe the thread link has this info; I'll read through it now.

For the record, I have a 60" Sony 3D set from a couple of years back, and turning on Motion Flow easily adds 3-4 frames of lag in game mode with it turned off. I always enjoy seeing improvements in tech so I hope they are onto something here. With Motion Flow on, it does a decent job at smoothing over the visuals, making it appearthat the frame rate is higher than it really is.
post #3 of 8
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeblow View Post

However, I do have to ask the obvious: what does "low-lag" mean? If it is below one frame of lag, that would be outstanding. If it is around one frame, that's still very good. Two frames of lag is acceptable for many gamers unless they are in to fighters or music games
Depends on the strobe backlight, but generally less than one frame of added lag.

-- LightBoost adds less than one frame of lag (LightBoost), it is only +4ms (half of 1/120sec).
-- Sony's Motionflow Impulse mode adds less than one frame, for a total of less than two frames of total lag.

They are low-lag when compared to yesterday's interpolation and yesterday's inefficient scanning backlights. Many motionflow modes used to take 100 milliseconds, so these are ultra-low-lag modes in comparison. Measurements of Motionflow Impulse using Leo Bodnar:
Quote:
I have some good news about the impulse mode on the sony 2013 KDL-55W905A.
The impulse mode is now available in gaming mode and the input lag in that impulse mode is only 30 ms!
The even better news is that it has been tested with the Leo Bodnar input lag tester, so a highspeed camera input lag test, will probably show 15 ms less.

So there you go, lightboost quality gaming that does not have the way too heavy 120fps requirement. The flickering is still there though.
Good chance that the same low input lag will be valid for the much cheaper Sony w805 as well.

Here is the review, the part about impulse mode is just above the Conclusion:
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/sony-kdl55w905a-201305172987.htm?page=Performance
So that's a Motionflow mode, zero interpolation artifacts (no fake frames), and adds less than one extra frame of input lag on top of baseline input lag. Which is low-lag, compared to yesterday's Motionflow.

Keep in mind that once lag differential is small, the motion blur elimination can actually cause faster human reaction times that outweigh the minor strobe-related input lag. During fast strafing / turning / panning, you can identify enemies quicker while in motion, without stopping moving. Strobe backlights make the input lag differential so small on some displays (+4ms) that the improved human reaction time often starts to outweigh the tiny input lag. The era is finally here now where high-efficiency motion blur reduction backlights are now worthwhile for computer/gaming use, finally free of interpolation artifacts, and the unreasonable lag is gone. Strobe backlights are even better at 120Hz, however, since half a frame of lag at 120Hz is just 4ms.
Edited by Mark Rejhon - 9/9/13 at 9:20pm
post #4 of 8
This part is confusing:
Quote:
The impulse mode is now available in gaming mode and the input lag in that impulse mode is only 30 ms!

The even better news is that it has been tested with the Leo Bodnar input lag tester, so a highspeed camera input lag test, will probably show 15 ms less.

There is no "probably" when a proper lag test is conducted. Is it 30ms (almost two frames) of lag added with impulse mode or a confirmed 15ms (about one frame)?
post #5 of 8
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeblow View Post

This part is confusing:
There is no "probably" when a proper lag test is conducted. Is it 30ms (almost two frames) of lag added with impulse mode or a confirmed 15ms (about one frame)?
The Leo Bodnar test is well known by all sites (HDTVtest, displaylag.com, TFTCentral, myself, etc), to return different input lag values than the SMTT input lag results. Leo Bodnar uses three flashing squares, top edge, center, and bottom edge. The top returns smaller values (similiar to SMTT). The middle is average input lag, and the bottom is worst-case input lag. On plasmas and LightBoost, all values appear as the same. On CRT's and LCD's, they are scanned as the signal comes in sequentially, so the top value is smaller.

Lag Test Method #1: The Leo Bodnar test is 100% confirmed.
Lag Test Method #2: The SMTT test value is NOT confirmed.

We be know SMTT (CRT zero-relative method) is "probably" 15ms because historically, stuff that said 30ms on Leo Bodnar -- often reports 15-20ms on SMTT (CRT zero-relative measurements). A good explanation of the input lag behaviours are found at these links:
http://www.displaylag.com/testing-method/
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/input-lag/
post #6 of 8
Sony did it.., the mistake of the year... their 'smart' engineers decided to enable their interpollation algorithm (after the latest firmware updates) at 'Impulse' mode, and there is no way back.... you can't disable it now....OMG. frown.gif

Impulse mode was the only MotionFlow option where the Sony 4K had the best motion resolution from any other LED in the market, with NONE Interpolation.... sadly now.. Sony's Impulse mode features bad interpollation, large motion blur and this mode now is just a dimmed mode that noone will ever use... frown.gif
post #7 of 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post

Sony 4K
Are you saying that only the Sony 4K models are affected? My Sony TV has Impulse but is not 4K, so I am wondering if I should avoid upgrading the firmware, or if I can downgrade the firmware after upgrading.
post #8 of 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik Garci View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post

Sony 4K
Are you saying that only the Sony 4K models are affected? My Sony TV has Impulse but is not 4K, so I am wondering if I should avoid upgrading the firmware, or if I can downgrade the firmware after upgrading.

Hello, I have tested only the Sony 55X9005 with tons of reference motion evaluation videos, after the problems I found, some days later they released a newer firmware where the motion performance become worst... frown.gif
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