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One better sub or two subs - Page 2

post #31 of 757
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

Congrats! You are in for a treat smile.gif
thx.
post #32 of 757
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by braveheart123 View Post

That's called manning up to the bass battle. Time for Radio Shack Analog SPL meter!!! It's a must buy.

True true. I'm gonna learn how to do that as well :-)
post #33 of 757
Congrats on the XV15's.. I'm liking my XS30. That thing has some monster bass. I'm gonna put my Jamo Sub 7 15" sealed sub across from it tonight and see how it sounds. I used the omni mic on the xs30 and I almost have a flat response. Just a little dip at 60 hz,no biggie tho.
post #34 of 757
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goat1 View Post

Congrats on the XV15's.. I'm liking my XS30. That thing has some monster bass. I'm gonna put my Jamo Sub 7 15" sealed sub across from it tonight and see how it sounds. I used the omni mic on the xs30 and I almost have a flat response. Just a little dip at 60 hz,no biggie tho.
What's bothering me the most is this calibration. I have no idea where to start and what to do. I know there is REW but it doesn't seem like something that can be used by someone who doesn't have prior knowledge. Their site doesn't even contain tutorials.

I tried to find resources that shows or explains how to calibrate subs but no luck:-( Anybody???????/
post #35 of 757
Quote:
Originally Posted by SherazNJ View Post

What's bothering me the most is this calibration. I have no idea where to start and what to do. I know there is REW but it doesn't seem like something that can be used by someone who doesn't have prior knowledge. Their site doesn't even contain tutorials.

I tried to find resources that shows or explains how to calibrate subs but no luck:-( Anybody???????/

I quickly picked up and learned how to use REW a few months back. head over to hometheatreshack.com and there is a section dedicated for REW. Start reading now, it can be overwhelming but its not too bad.
post #36 of 757
Quote:
What's bothering me the most is this calibration. I have no idea where to start and what to do. I know there is REW but it doesn't seem like something that can be used by someone who doesn't have prior knowledge. Their site doesn't even contain tutorials.

I tried to find resources that shows or explains how to calibrate subs but no luck:-( Anybody???????/

Don't worry too much. Let the new bad boys arrive. In the meantime, buy rat shack analog spl meter. You will need that. It's like a stethoscope every doc carries. And don't sell rw-12d. Run it alongside the psa duo.

For a start let your avr do the auto cal. btw which avr do you have?
post #37 of 757
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by braveheart123 View Post

Don't worry too much. Let the new bad boys arrive. In the meantime, buy rat shack analog spl meter. You will need that. It's like a stethoscope every doc carries. And don't sell rw-12d. Run it alongside the psa duo.

For a start let your avr do the auto cal. btw which avr do you have?

Thx braveheart. Bad boys are arriving today. As of now as per UPS tracking, they are out for delivery :-). They should be deliverd by afternoon.
I'm gonna go buy Spl meter from rad shack today by afternoon in my break.
Wooow three subs ????????? I know I know when it comes to sub, the more the better. But I read in many plaes to have same subs around.

My current setup
Receiver: Marantz SR6007
Front and Central: Def. tower BP7006
Surround: 1 x Definitive Technology StudioMonitor 350 Bookshelf/Stand Mount Speaker (Black) Pair
Back: Def basic small speakers (they are the smallest ones)
post #38 of 757
Quote:
But I read in many plaes to have same subs around.

It is not a must. I've used poles apart subs with excellent results.
post #39 of 757
Congrats Sheraz.. Don't let the measurements drive you crazy. If you can put them close to a corner that would be best. Then listen with a smile.. smile.gif
post #40 of 757
Curious,where do you guys set the db's on your subs at? Do you run them above 75hz?
post #41 of 757
Quote:
Originally Posted by braveheart123 View Post

Time for Radio Shack Analog SPL meter!!! It's a must buy.

Where is this to be found?
post #42 of 757
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaviorMachine View Post

Where is this to be found?


I have heard many people using smartphone apps, even though they might not give you an accurate db s. It's all about getting data to compare, its not like you taking measurement for "the next sub you want to see measured" smile.gif.
Edited by booga24 - 9/18/13 at 12:16pm
post #43 of 757
Quote:
I have heard many people using smartphone apps, even though they might not give you an accurate db s. It's all getting data to compare, its not like you taking measurement for "the next sub you want to see measured" smile.gif.

I recommended RS Analog SPL meter to future proof OP as it has published correction values to be used with REW + it is cheap.
post #44 of 757
Quote:
Where is this to be found?

I bought it from Radio Shack outlet in dc 2 years back.
post #45 of 757
Thread Starter 
Ok got the subs. They are Big and heavy. Tried to hook them up opposite to each other by side will half way thru the room length but that didn't workout because sub are right next to he seats I moved the subs more towards the screens then. Then I left one sub there and moved the other one in the back to see how goes. So far not sure where to place them. And here is a big list of questions


1 - I bought the SPL meter from Radio Shack. The use is very simple. Place it in center hearing location on tripod and use Level to match everything to 73. Some articles say 76.
2 - On Subs, turned Gain to 3 p.m, crossover to max and phase to 0. Hooked up inputs to LFE.
3 - My Marantz SR6007 has two inputs for subs but Audyssey FAQ here says to use Y-Splitter to coneect them to one input. So I used Y-Splitter to connect these subs.

Ran calibration. Audyssey didn't ike the subs gain to 3 p.m. and complained about it. Then I turned the Gain knob to 12 (mid point). Ran calibration again and this time it was fine. After calibration, I checked levels and subs were set to 2.5 db. At that level, I couldn't feel the subs as loud as I wanted to. I had to move it to 9 db to get the sound I wanted. So here are my questions

1 - Should I use SPL before calibration or after?
2 - After calibration is complete and if receiver sets subs db to low, should I increase from receiver or increase Gain on subs.
3 - Does anyone know if I should use seperate inputs on my receiver or use Y-Splitter
4 - Last but not least, where should I place the subs. I can't place them exactly midway across walls because they are very close to the seating area.

Thx guys.
post #46 of 757
Pics smile.gif?
post #47 of 757
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by booga24 View Post

Pics smile.gif?
Absolutely absolutely.
I'll post the pics soon.

Here are my thoughts so far about subs. Please keep in mind that they are not fully calibrated yet.

1 - Looks: there were concerns about how it looks in different threads. I myself like it very much. Looks much better than my current sub rw 12.
2 - Size: I wouldn't say they are very big. They are like perfect size.
3 - Weight: Yes they are heavy.
4 - Base: heheheh where do I begin. Ok here we go. After I connected these subs, I tested and wasn't jumping off my seat after calibration. Then I started checking and found out that one of the sub input wasn't hooked in completely and it wasn't producing any base. After fixing that, I used SPL to make all speakers to 75db. My receiver set my subs to 2.5 db after calibration. When I used SPL, my subs were coming to around 68. I bumped up the volume on subs (not receiver level) to match 75. Then walla. I am hearing the bases that I didn't even imagine would be there (short time period testing). It is so awesome. I just heard a car crash and got scared :-).
Low level sub detail is insaneeeeeee. Here is an example. There is a scene in batman dark night where batman is in this big room. Then he starts walking away and the lights on the ceilings start going off as he was walking away. As each light was going off, it made a sound like whup whup. I was just awesome. I never knew there was this sound effect there before.
High level details: no distortion what so ever. It hits you loud and clear.

I hope someone is going to read my previous post to answer my questions. I wonder how it all will sound once everything is calibrated.
post #48 of 757
Congratulations on your new toys! Did you leave the RW12d in the mix for now? As to your AVR it has two sub pre-outs, the inputs are on your subs...I'd not bother with the splitter since you have two pre-outs, although if the RW12d is in the mix then of course you'd need a splitter to feed three subs (altho I think that your avr essentially has an internal y-splitter anyways).

Your avr mic reading for spl is that different from the ratshack thing? Personally would have gotten a calibrated usb mic and used REW with a laptop, much more uses than a ratshack can provide.

What calibration are you speaking of after running Audyssey? You planning on getting something like a minidsp?

As far as placement, that's something best for you to determine at this point for a combination of what works (i.e. not with your screen, interfering with seating, etc) and best sound....
post #49 of 757
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Congratulations on your new toys! Did you leave the RW12d in the mix for now? As to your AVR it has two sub pre-outs, the inputs are on your subs...I'd not bother with the splitter since you have two pre-outs, although if the RW12d is in the mix then of course you'd need a splitter to feed three subs (altho I think that your avr essentially has an internal y-splitter anyways).

I'm not using RW12d as of now. I wanted to see how it sounds without it and its great. I don't even know why I'd throw it in the mix. Yes my avr does have 2 pre-outs. The reason I didn't use them is because in 101 Audyssey FAQ it was mentioned not to http://www.avsforum.com/t/795421/official-audyssey-thread-faq-in-post-1/51750#user_f2
Quote:
Your avr mic reading for spl is that different from the ratshack thing? Personally would have gotten a calibrated usb mic and used REW with a laptop, much more uses than a ratshack can provide.
Very new to this stuff and therefore not familiar with REW yet. I did find a very helpful link on avsforum but didn't bookmark it now can't find it :-(
Quote:
What calibration are you speaking of after running Audyssey? You planning on getting something like a minidsp?
No calibration. I only leveled the speakers and subs using SPL after calibration.
Quote:
As far as placement, that's something best for you to determine at this point for a combination of what works (i.e. not with your screen, interfering with seating, etc) and best sound....
I agree. I have to play around with them. For now I have one in the back (middle) and one on the side wall close to screen. Seems to be working fine.
post #50 of 757
Since you have the RW12d I'd still throw it in the mix to see if it helps pressurize your space....what the heck. Reread the instructions, I doubt you have two distinct sub pre-outs since you only have MultEQXT version of Audyssey and likely only have an internal y-splitter as I mentioned before. The 6007 manual doesn't seem to say otherwise either.

REW is a free download, and is not all that hard to use as an spl meter, it's the other stuff that may take a while smile.gif With the ratshack thing all you can do is half-assed spl measurements and have to use scales and interpretations and isn't all that particularly accurate. AVS forums have several threads dedicated to its use as well as where you download it from, hometheatershack.com. Personally I have an Omnimic as well but I like toys. There are others as well.

Did you run Audyssey or not? That is a calibration tool. Even just simply adjusting levels with an spl meter is a calibration of sorts, but Audyssey is generally better (IMHO) until you know more.

Good luck!
Edited by lovinthehd - 9/18/13 at 8:50pm
post #51 of 757
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post

Since you have the RW12d I'd still throw it in the mix to see if it helps pressurize your space....what the heck. Reread the instructions, I doubt you have two distinct sub pre-outs since you only have MultEQXT version of Audyssey and likely only have an internal y-splitter as I mentioned before. The 6007 manual doesn't seem to say otherwise either.

REW is a free download, and is not all that hard to use as an spl meter, it's the other stuff that may take a while smile.gif With the ratshack thing all you can do is half-assed spl measurements and have to use scales and interpretations and isn't all that particularly accurate. AVS forums have several threads dedicated to its use as well as where you download it from, hometheatershack.com. Personally I have an Omnimic as well but I like toys.

Did you run Audyssey or not? That is a calibration tool. Even just simply adjusting levels with an spl meter is a calibration of sorts, but Audyssey is generally better (IMHO) until you know more.

Good luck!

Yes I did run Audyssey calibration. After that I setup the speakers level to 75. Audyssey does a lot more than just leveling like distance and delay. So yes I did that.
Here is the link I was talking about that shows step by step guide on REW
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1449924/simplified-rew-setup-and-use-usb-mic-hdmi-connection-including-measurement-techniques-and-how-to-interpret-graphs/270#post_22823228
post #52 of 757
I'm no Audyssey expert but from what I remember aside from speaker crossover any changes you make to Audyssey settings after it is run can or will negate the Audyssey setup....but I'll let someone else confirm that or not. Yes, that's one of the REW threads here, specifically for a usb mic and REW.
post #53 of 757
Quote:
I'm no Audyssey expert but from what I remember aside from speaker crossover any changes you make to Audyssey settings after it is run can or will negate the Audyssey setup....but I'll let someone else confirm that or not.

No. You can tweak crossover, bump levels up/down, change distance and it won't nullify audyssey. Also, it's far better to raise the crossover than to lower it after audyssey is run. That's coz audyssey applies more filters with finer resolution in the lower 2-3 octaves (subwoofer region) than it does in the upper frequencies (speakers).
post #54 of 757
Quote:
1 - Should I use SPL before calibration or after?

Doesn't matter, but would be better if you level match your subs (collectively) at around 75dB before calibration.
Quote:
2 - After calibration is complete and if receiver sets subs db to low, should I increase from receiver or increase Gain on subs.

You can do it either way, but going by the book says to raise the level from avr. That is coz when you raise the levels in the avr, the dynamicEQ curve adjusts itself. If you do it on the sub, it wouldn't make any adjustments to accommodate extra gain. Btw I don't go by the book wink.gif
Quote:
3 - Does anyone know if I should use seperate inputs on my receiver or use Y-Splitter

Doesn't matter. The 2 sub pre-outs on your avr are internally paralleled, which means they both feed exactly the same signal.
Quote:
4 - Last but not least, where should I place the subs. I can't place them exactly midway across walls because they are very close to the seating area.

My favourite part.
Just landed at work. Going for tea and cigarette. Will reply on this in half an hour or so biggrin.gif
post #55 of 757
OK. First of all a lil about the audyssey. What crossover settings are you using for your speakers. If audyssey returned your mains as Large (which it mostly does), change them to small. Keep all the speakers to small and keep 80Hz as your crossover frequency for all of them. 80Hz is not a must, but gives you a starting point.

You said putting the subs along the side walls in the mid position brings your subs way too close to seating area. Can you post some actual pictures of the entire room from different angles?
post #56 of 757
As regards using REW, that's not a big deal to get things going without it. You can plot your in-room FR in excel sheet yourself. All you need is RS Analog SPL meter correction values and some test tones. The correction values are published on home theatre shack.

RS meter is not accurate 100Hz and below and gives incorrect readings. RS is off by as much as 8dB at 20Hz. The correction values are there to apply correct offset so you get exact SPL.
Edited by braveheart123 - 9/19/13 at 5:28am
post #57 of 757
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by braveheart123 View Post

OK. First of all a lil about the audyssey. What crossover settings are you using for your speakers. If audyssey returned your mains as Large (which it mostly does), change them to small. Keep all the speakers to small and keep 80Hz as your crossover frequency for all of them. 80Hz is not a must, but gives you a starting point.

You said putting the subs along the side walls in the mid position brings your subs way too close to seating area. Can you post some actual pictures of the entire room from different angles?


Audyssey set my Front and Central to Large. But I did go back and changed them to Small (since it will receiver to send singals to LFE).
Audyssey set crossover to 40 but I changed them to 80 for fron and central and 100 for surrond.
post #58 of 757
Thread Starter 
Quote:
You said putting the subs along the side walls in the mid position brings your subs way too close to seating area. Can you post some actual pictures of the entire room from different angles?

Will do today when I get home :-)
post #59 of 757
If I were in your shoes, I'd keep RW-12D in the spot where you had it before (rear wall behind the couch) and put the dual XV-15s in the middle of side walls (one along each wall) such that it becomes an inverted pyramid with each corner holding one sub. There will be an issue of matching the phase, but XV-15s have continuously variable phase knobs, so, you can easily adjust the correct delay. I'd reckon you give this a try and check how your system sounds with 3 subs laid out that way.
post #60 of 757
Quote:
Originally Posted by SherazNJ View Post

Ok got the subs. They are Big and heavy. Tried to hook them up opposite to each other by side will half way thru the room length but that didn't workout because sub are right next to he seats I moved the subs more towards the screens then. Then I left one sub there and moved the other one in the back to see how goes. So far not sure where to place them. And here is a big list of questions


1 - I bought the SPL meter from Radio Shack. The use is very simple. Place it in center hearing location on tripod and use Level to match everything to 73. Some articles say 76.
2 - On Subs, turned Gain to 3 p.m, crossover to max and phase to 0. Hooked up inputs to LFE.
3 - My Marantz SR6007 has two inputs for subs but Audyssey FAQ here says to use Y-Splitter to coneect them to one input. So I used Y-Splitter to connect these subs.

Ran calibration. Audyssey didn't ike the subs gain to 3 p.m. and complained about it. Then I turned the Gain knob to 12 (mid point). Ran calibration again and this time it was fine. After calibration, I checked levels and subs were set to 2.5 db. At that level, I couldn't feel the subs as loud as I wanted to. I had to move it to 9 db to get the sound I wanted. So here are my questions

1 - Should I use SPL before calibration or after?
2 - After calibration is complete and if receiver sets subs db to low, should I increase from receiver or increase Gain on subs.
3 - Does anyone know if I should use seperate inputs on my receiver or use Y-Splitter
4 - Last but not least, where should I place the subs. I can't place them exactly midway across walls because they are very close to the seating area.

Thx guys.

Don't forget one of the best sources for answering your sub questions is PSA. Tom has always been extremely helpful with any questions I've had. smile.gif
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