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Recommended tube friendly speakers - Page 2

post #31 of 83
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bo130 View Post

Arny is right though in his posting, about the *accuracy* aspect. It's well documented how tubes influence the sound of an audio playback system. This is not something up for debate. However, no one can deny that anyone can enjoy the kind of sound that a tube amp can produce. You could certainly attach the term "musical' to a tube amp, but I wouldn't pair it with the term "accuracy".
O.K. I understand it.
post #32 of 83
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rongon View Post

I think I found a schematic of that Cary SLA-70 amp.

http://elektrotanya.com/PREVIEWS/63463243/23432455/oldies/egyeb/cary-audio-design_cad-sla-70_2x6l6_el34_1991_sch.pdf_1.png

It's a push-pull pentode amp. (Not distributed load or "ultralinear" like a Dynaco tube amp, or triode, which is currently more fashionable.)

It looks like it uses a 6SL7 paraphase inverter (the phase splitter circuit) and a really basic, cathode-biased pentode output stage. The power supply is also very basic. It doesn't use an inductor (choke) in the power supply, as is normally done for tube amps. It all looks like a very basic 1950's design. Actually, it's a lot like many guitar amps from that era (no slight intended, just statement of a verifiable fact. Look up mid-1950's Fender guitar amp schematics).

I imagine it sounds nice, like a 'classic' tube amp, especially if the output transformers are very good quality. But it's not a state-of-the-art tube amp by any stretch. If the output transformers are no better than your basic Dyna Stereo 70, then this is not likely to be a very high-performing design. The negative feedback loop has no frequency dependent shelving networks to control ringing or oscillations caused by the capacitance or loose coupling of the output transformer at high frequencies (a little above the audio band).

That's looking at it objectively. As I mentioned, the sound it produces might be very engaging and 'classic.' I'll be the first to admit that I prefer the sound of a really good tube amp, subjectively.

--
It's interesting that you compare the design with amps of the 50's cos the manual is dated in 1990. It makes me wonder that they tried to recreate a 'classic' sound. I cannot tell you about the sound, cos I haven't plugged it, but it's pretty heavy, by far more than I expected, I hope the weight is a good sign about the quality of the output transformers.
post #33 of 83
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rongon View Post

Probably the best solution would be to bi-amp. Use an active crossover to send lows to a high power amp and a pair of woofers, and send the higher frequencies only to the SE tube amp and whatever speakers you choose. Since it's the low frequencies which require high power, you can use your low power SET amp as a 'mid-tweeter' amp, but with a lower than normal crossover of between 80 to 300 Hz (depending on whether you use one sub to cover both channels or one woofer for each channel). If you use a pair of full-range speakers for the SET amp, and (sub)woofer(s) with appropriate high power amp(s) for the lows, you'll have what some hobbyists are calling a "FAST" ("fullrange and subwoofer technology" -- ok, it's a dumb acronym).


PS - I do think MarkAudio Alpair drivers are awfully nice.

One of the first things that Bob told me was that his speakers are not intended to play loud music, that current compressed music will sound ugly, and the speakers perform its best into "polite listening" (what ever it technically means). And that the speakers reach around 40Hz. One of the reasons that I choose them is that I'm gonna listen in a small room. But I've considered a system like the "FAST", with one or two Subwoofers, but just to reach the lower end, not to overpower the main speakers, but first need to evaluate in person the speakers that Bob are making me.

Also, English is my second language, so what do you mean by "awfully nice"?
Edited by Fermelom - 9/19/13 at 1:06am
post #34 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fermelom View Post

One of the first things that Bob told me was that his speakers are not intended to play loud music, that current compressed music will sound ugly, and the speakers perform its best into "polite listening" (what ever it technically means). And that the speakers reach around 40Hz. One of the reasons that I choose them is that I'm gonna listen in a small room. But I've considered a system like the "FAST", with one or two Subwoofers, but just to reach the lower end, not to overpower the main speakers, but first need to evaluate in person the speakers that Bob are making me.

Also, English is my second language, so what do you mean by "awfully nice"?

Not Rongon, but I find the MA drivers to be reasonably priced, more than the tang bands and fostex, but far less than, say, a Lowther. The one's I've played with dug pretty deep, handled break-up fairly well, and had a bass bulge/bsc in their native response which provided good results in my limited experiments. They're good values, particularly when compared to something like a Lowther.

Bob was right. The big drawbacks to full-rangers is outright dynamics, but within their limits their transient response and relative dynamics are good to excellent. You'll come to appreciate no passive networks in the mix. FAST works great if you have the upstream processing, and I think it's beneficial even if you don't, but you won't get any dynamic range dividends without high passing the mains. Bass will help realize the over-all scale of things, even if you never crank it. Also, I've experienced more problems trying to blend ported mains than sealed mains...not sure how Bob's stuffed TL enclosures would play into that, but it's possibly another argument for upstream bass management to side-step the issue.

Rongon's assessment of the Cary is right in line with what I heard when paired with the Klipsch fortes, a very pleasant, classic, warm-ish but clear tube sound.
post #35 of 83
Zu Audio make high efficiency speakers that cater to tube amplifiers and are factory direct.. Some have high nominal impedance 12 - 16 ohm. They play loudly when I have heard them at audio shows powered by tube amps and sound pretty good. probably worth checking out for your music preferences/
post #36 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by someoledude View Post

Zu Audio make high efficiency speakers that cater to tube amplifiers and are factory direct.. Some have high nominal impedance 12 - 16 ohm. They play loudly when I have heard them at audio shows powered by tube amps and sound pretty good. probably worth checking out for your music preferences/

I'll second ZU.
Speakers are designed specifically to play to the strengths of SET amplifiers, and bring out that warm midrange. Also really good guys who care alot about their product and the people that buy them.
post #37 of 83
I'll add a -2 to the Zu suggestion. The three sets I've heard so far rate them as some of the very worst commercial speakers that didn't come from a white van. Measurements I've seen also show they're nowhere near as sensitive as they purport to be.
post #38 of 83
Zu's speakers managed to achieve some of the very worst measurements in the history of Stereophile's reviews. Don't walk away from those speakers, run from them.
post #39 of 83

I have a 40w tube amp in my bedroom, I purchased a pair of Tekton Lores, and have been happy with them, I did buy before he was {busy} and my speakers came in 1 week, although the grills took some time {a few months} I am happy with the speakers and service...

 

Another option and I have heard them with a tube amp and they sounded good is the focal 816v's on sale here http://www.musicdirect.com/p-139683-focal-chorus-816v-tower-speakers-pr.aspx?source=igodigital& 

You are going to find towers will be a little more efficient than bookshelfs and dig a little lower at the same time, with bookshelfs I find to make them strong downstairs you need more power {not all obviously, there are a few sets of efficient bookshelfs out there, but they are not cheap}.  I find solid state sounds better for less money, but its all personal preference, I still own a tube amp, lol it is a nice experience...  

 

Another trick I learned with tube amps {and low powered amps in general} beyond choosing efficient speakers, is crossing them to a sub helps output levels A LOT, even a small sealed powered sub that allows you to cross your towers around 60hz will free up a lot of power, dynamic headroom is great for the sake of your mids and highs...  The low end sucks energy up, let the subs amp handle it, a simple Fmod will stop the lows before they are amplified...

post #40 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by imcloud View Post

Another trick I learned with tube amps {and low powered amps in general} beyond choosing efficient speakers, is crossing them to a sub helps output levels A LOT, even a small sealed powered sub that allows you to cross your towers around 60hz will free up a lot of power, dynamic headroom is great for the sake of your mids and highs...  The low end sucks energy up, let the subs amp handle it, a simple Fmod will stop the lows before they are amplified...
This MUST be done at line level to have this effect, which unfortunately is not what most people do, ie they run the mains fullrange and simply high pass the subs.
FMODS are rubbish; use a proper xover.
post #41 of 83

fmods are line level, this obviously has to be rolled off at line level since speaker level will just turn the rolled off power into heat thus not helping the power issue at all...

 

I have used Fmods and for a system like this that isn't going to be "super critical" listening, I would say its fine, I have never had an fmod fail, I have never had one do anything except what they advertise, sure its not an expensive digital crossover but they work, plug an fmod between your pre and amp and there will be no more low's {or what ever -db and hz you choose}...  I seen a display a while back where a 3 way stereo speaker system with a pair of subs was all ran from a bunch of amps with fmods as the only xovers, it sounded good, I was impressed, if you use them correctly an dfmod will do what it is intended you need to pay attention to impedes and hz and slops, but he will make anything you want......

 

As for not crossing your mains and running them full range, that is going to yield bad results, unless your mains are made to roll of at say 50hz and you use that point to pull your sub in then it could work...   

 

I'm curious as to what a "proper" crossover is?  Mini dsp, behringer 2496 {I have two of them}?  I prefer a simple fmod, call Harrison labs, tell him what you have for gear what you want to accomplish and you will end up happy..   I have also used fmods to clean up an old set of speakers I had, bass would play through them and sound horrible so I threw in some 70hz high pass fmods in there and they sounded good again... 

 

Anyway, I'm just curious as to what you used fmods for that you didn't like them..

post #42 of 83
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by imcloud View Post

Another trick I learned with tube amps {and low powered amps in general} beyond choosing efficient speakers, is crossing them to a sub helps output levels A LOT, even a small sealed powered sub that allows you to cross your towers around 60hz will free up a lot of power, dynamic headroom is great for the sake of your mids and highs...  The low end sucks energy up, let the subs amp handle it, a simple Fmod will stop the lows before they are amplified...

Quote:
Originally Posted by A9X-308 View Post

This MUST be done at line level to have this effect, which unfortunately is not what most people do, ie they run the mains fullrange and simply high pass the subs.
FMODS are rubbish; use a proper xover.

Hi! I'm very interested in how to cross the towers with a sub. I don't understand how to do it, specially when you mention that must be done at line level to free the towers of the lows. Let's say that I will use the TR-1D of Gallo Acoustics, how should connect it to have the desired effect?
post #43 of 83

Its really easy, and you have a couple options, the least expensive and what I normally use is an Fmod set.

 

You have "line level" and "speaker level", line level is the level before you amplify the sound, so the RCA cables between the preamp and the amplifier is a good example of this, speaker level is obviously after the amp section....

 

So between your preamp and your amplifier you have a set of cables, you plug the FMODS in that line before the amp and they will stop the lows from going to your speakers.  Now depending on which preamp you are going to use, if it doesn't have "sub outs" you will simply use a Splitter before the fmods and send the un crossed signal to your subwoofers amplifier, your sub amp will have its own integrated cross over to ensure your sub gets only bass, that will have a dial and be adjustable..  

 

A quick call to Harrison labs will get you on the rite track for which fmod to use at which freq you want to cut...  80 is popular, but a fast look at your speakers graphsand your subs graphs will show you where they are both flat, most towers have NO trouble of going to 80hz and most subs also have no trouble getting to 80, but sometimes depending on the music you listen to you want to make sure your sub isn't getting "voice", and you are not cutting out content all together...  They don't work like a switch, they ramp out the blocked content, so crossing with in 10db will still give you all the material...  I have a set of f-mods just for testing, which one will sound best, I have also had him make me custom units..

 

Some people may say "Fmods are garbage" but with no proof of this I would dis-reguard such claims, they do what they are supposed to I never seen them add sound or distortion and they never break, so its just one of them things....   

 

Another way to crossover is to purchase a preamp with adjustable high and low pass crossovers they can be purchased for very little money, Emotiva USP1 and XSP1 both will perform this function, also the new Parasound P5 has the feature {plus a built in dac}, the parasound 2100 {I own one} will cross for you but it is only adjustable on the low side, your highs are crossed at 80hz fixed, But the USP1 is fully adjustable on sale rite now for something like $360, I own one of these too and it works good, has a nice phone section too...

 

Another option is to use a sub with a high pass output, like the SVS SB12 NSD, these subs are super musical, and they have a 80hz high pass output, so you plug your preamp into the sub, then your towers amp into the subs high pass output, the sub does the crossing for you..  I own 2 of these subs, and the feature works really good...  

 

There is also the mini dsp option or the behringer deq2496, which are digital and do a lot more than just cross the bass out, but in my opinion you want to keep as little in the signal path as possible, I own a deq and its fun to play with but I ultimately ended up removing it from my systems...  Pure and direct, try to keep the signal path as straight forward with as little circuitry in it as possible...   This is why I don't like AVR's for music only systems, use the KISS method {Keep It Simple Stupid} and you will never go wrong, plus it will keep you from spending money on equipment that doesn't improve the experience...

here is what an fmod looks like, you want high pass for towers...

http://www.amazon.com/FMOD-Crossover-Pair-High-Pass/dp/B0006N41JW/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1382094951&sr=8-6&keywords=fmods+high+pass

post #44 of 83
Fermelom, have you received the Brines speakers yet? Just curious what your impressions are.

Thorough advice from Imcloud, but let them run on their own to start and see how they do first.

Another thing to keep in mind when using more sensitive speakers is gain staging of your system. Speaker sensitivity is kind of like a magnifying factor for upstream noise. I'll give an example for illustrative purposes. In my tube amp rig, I use an active pre-amp (solid state, if that matters) capable of considerable voltage gain, and it measures far better S/N at higher output compared to lower output, to the tune of a -20db difference, so I run it hot. Between that and my speakers' high sensitivity, I only need about 10db voltage gain from the amp. It's dead quiet, at least until the music starts.
post #45 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by imcloud View Post

I'm curious as to what a "proper" crossover is?  Mini dsp, behringer 2496 {I have two of them}?
I have 3 2496 (modified) a MD and have a Najda on the way. 
Quote:
Originally Posted by imcloud View Post

Anyway, I'm just curious as to what you used fmods for that you didn't like them..
They didn't measure close to what they said they should and are only a 12dB BW filter so very limited in what you can do with them. They are only specced for a single load impedance, which is all they can do because they're passive, which is not a lot of help if you're using something different, especially if the low and high amps have a different Zin.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fermelom View Post


Hi! I'm very interested in how to cross the towers with a sub. I don't understand how to do it, specially when you mention that must be done at line level to free the towers of the lows. Let's say that I will use the TR-1D of Gallo Acoustics, how should connect it to have the desired effect?
Use a MiniDSP between the pre and power section. 'Highs 'go back to the power amp and drive the towers. 'Lows' go the the sub. On the sub set any on board low pass filter the maximum setting to effectively bypass it (because the MD is doing that job). The MD also has extensive EQing and delay which no crappy little passive has. What settings you use will depend upon how the towers measure, but a LR24 slope is usually good as a first approximation.

That Gallo looks awfully expensive for what it is.
post #46 of 83
I still own my 2596's and they are back in the boxes, after playing with them, I prefer no eq'ing...  When I first received the deq I thought it was the best thing since, but after a while I just prefer the sound with out them....   I know people tend to over think audio, and I found myself going through tons of money and trouble not to mention time I could be listening to music for the tiniest gains, and some of which were probably placebo, I draw the line at measuring my speakers, I won't start because I know it will never end, I don't want to be one of them guys listening to test tones, getting sick over how wavy my graph is, that is all precious time I can be using the system for what it was made, to listen to music...   
I find with the Fmods, you need to try different combos out, all systems are different, I normally call herrison labs and tell him what I am trying to accomplish and he will either make or pull something off the shelf, I have yet to be dissapointed, sure its not an digital cross over with room correction software and dynamic-blah blah blah, but it is also $25, plugs in in 30 seconds, and stops the bass from coming out of your mains....  You try a set, listen with your ears and tune the sub in, the sound will be good if you do it correctly....   I use the crossovers in my preamps for the most part, but I have a 10" DIY sub and a pair of cbm170se's in my garage with a dayton apa150 amplifier, the system gets intensely loud compared to when the apa150 was trying to reproduce the full range....   I believe that one is a 100hz fmod and the sub is set to 85hz, does the job for $25 and very little thinking..

Edited by imcloud - 10/18/13 at 3:49pm
post #47 of 83
I draw the line at measuring my speakers, I won't start because I know it will never end, I don't want to be one of them guys listening to test tones, getting sick over how wavy my graph is, that is all precious time I can be using the system for what it was made, to listen to music...

What a lot of hyperbolic crap. That goes to show you're quite ignorant of the process and/or OCD. Once set, I don't re measure anything in my system until there is a major change requiring it. It doesn't take a lot of time to do and the process is akin to tuning a car for maximum efficiency/performance.

I find with the Fmods, you need to try different combos out

At $25 for each one you have to buy to try. Not economical and very limited in the scope of what they can actually do.
post #48 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by A9X-308 View Post

I draw the line at measuring my speakers, I won't start because I know it will never end, I don't want to be one of them guys listening to test tones, getting sick over how wavy my graph is, that is all precious time I can be using the system for what it was made, to listen to music...

What a lot of hyperbolic crap. That goes to show you're quite ignorant of the process and/or OCD. Once set, I don't re measure anything in my system until there is a major change requiring it. It doesn't take a lot of time to do and the process is akin to tuning a car for maximum efficiency/performance.

I find with the Fmods, you need to try different combos out

At $25 for each one you have to buy to try. Not economical and very limited in the scope of what they can actually do.

 

"hyberbolic crap" lol, OK, I set them up once, and they failed twice, the third one seemed to last, but after a while I preferred the system with out it, I have spoke to others that feel the same way, go to ebay and there are tons of them listed for $90 of other people that learned what the real "crap" is, lol....   

 

I am just stating what I found, not trying to knock you for what you think sounds good, I have done it, I have gone through the tuning process and played with everything to try and chase a "better " sound, and I FIND I prefer the system playing with no digi EQ, just cross to the subs and leave it alone, FMods do their job, you would only need a few sets if you were really anal about getting it as good as you can, but most people will be satisfied with a 70 for towers and 100 for books...  or an 80 for all around....   

 

We all have our preferences....  nothing to get excited about

post #49 of 83
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne Highwood View Post

Fermelom, have you received the Brines speakers yet? Just curious what your impressions are.

Thorough advice from Imcloud, but let them run on their own to start and see how they do first.

Another thing to keep in mind when using more sensitive speakers is gain staging of your system. Speaker sensitivity is kind of like a magnifying factor for upstream noise. I'll give an example for illustrative purposes. In my tube amp rig, I use an active pre-amp (solid state, if that matters) capable of considerable voltage gain, and it measures far better S/N at higher output compared to lower output, to the tune of a -20db difference, so I run it hot. Between that and my speakers' high sensitivity, I only need about 10db voltage gain from the amp. It's dead quiet, at least until the music starts.


I received the speakers and right now I'm burning them. As a Bob recommendation I haven't exceed the 1mm excursion (for the first 100 hours), but I can tell you a few things.

First, the sound is so much more relaxed and natural than I'm used to in speakers. It's not so bright or so booming but is closer to the natural sound of the acoustic instruments. I'm familiar with the sound of several instruments like acoustic guitar, violin, trumpet, saxophone, piano, hand percussions and drums sets and this gives a very accurate timbre, a record of a solo guitar at certain volume it sounds very close to a real acoustic guitar in my room, this means without the crispiness that usually you hear in most speakers, that's how an acoustic guitar actually sounds in real life.

When I say "not so bright or boomy" I want to make clear that it goes very high and very deep but in a natural and coherent way.

Other thing that I noticed it's that the sound is more uniform across the room and the stereo imaging remains while I move right through the room. Also there's a lot of detail, I've been able to understand some phrases in lyrics that I thought says something different in songs that I'm familiar with,

When this feels kinda strange it's when playing something more electronic or processed, cos you don't get that sound that you're so familiar, but if you pay attention to the vocals you'll noticed the same natural timbre that I've mentioned before.

I'm pretty happy with them.

I'm still interested in add the subs, I wanna go stereo, but just to extend the response in the lower end, mostly for the music more processed, I don't want to destroy the timbrel accuracy that I've been mentioning.
Edited by Fermelom - 10/20/13 at 2:00am
post #50 of 83
Someday I will get me a "tube amplifier" and use it in a 2 ch set-up just because they look cool!
post #51 of 83
Sounds like you're having the quintessential wide-band single driver experience, Ferm. That's awesome. Enjoy the music!

Regarding subs, I would probably skip the Gallo and get a large-ish (15") sealed sub, something with really good transient behavior to match the Brines. I would try it without any additional spap oop for your system to start. Be very judicious with the sub's settings, it won't take much to fill in the lowest couple octaves in such a small room. If you later decide you want to go with proper bass management, it won't ruin the natural timbre you're experiencing. In fact it would reduce IMD and stretch the dynamic envelope a bit, which would be an improvement. But it would require more kit.
post #52 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne Highwood View Post

something with really good transient behavior
Subs don't have anything in the way of 'transient response' because of the low BW in which they operate.
post #53 of 83
My bad. What's the proper terminology? No overhang/ringing?

I still think any of a number of sealed 15" subs would probably cost less while outperforming the Gallo sub, but I could be wrong. Help me out here, I hate posting dumb **** or giving bad advice.
post #54 of 83
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne Highwood View Post

Sounds like you're having the quintessential wide-band single driver experience, Ferm. That's awesome. Enjoy the music!

Regarding subs, I would probably skip the Gallo and get a large-ish (15") sealed sub, something with really good transient behavior to match the Brines. I would try it without any additional spap oop for your system to start. Be very judicious with the sub's settings, it won't take much to fill in the lowest couple octaves in such a small room. If you later decide you want to go with proper bass management, it won't ruin the natural timbre you're experiencing. In fact it would reduce IMD and stretch the dynamic envelope a bit, which would be an improvement. But it would require more kit.
Hi Wayne! Right now I'm playing The Cure's Disintegration album (a Japanese press that it's not remastered) and sounds amazing! I'm really enjoying the music!
Thank you for your comments about the subs. I would like to tell you that I'm interested in the Gallo's cos they where designed to pair with their system of satellites, that also are single drivers as you can see in this video: http://youtu.be/iaVkjxxip9o
I've read very good references about the accuracy of the Gallo's. Also I'm concern that a bigger cone would bring uncontrolled bass that it's exactly the opposite of what I'm looking for.
Edited by Fermelom - 10/20/13 at 2:49am
post #55 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne Highwood View Post

My bad. What's the proper terminology? No overhang/ringing?

I still think any of a number of sealed 15" subs would probably cost less while outperforming the Gallo sub, but I could be wrong. Help me out here, I hate posting dumb **** or giving bad advice.

Its not a matter of terminology, its a matter of performance,

A sub can do its job if and only if it can move enough air.

Also, its acoustic context has to be right, so room acoustics matters particularly in a tubed electronics context where all of the technology that has been developed since the middle 1960s is not available.
post #56 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fermelom View Post

I'm concern that a bigger cone would bring uncontrolled bass that it's exactly the opposite of what I'm looking for.

It may be counterintuitive, but bigger bass drivers don't bring "uncontrolled bass", at least not necessearily. If anything, they have a better chance of providing tight, low distortion bass, as they move considerably less than smaller drivers do for the same spl.
Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

A sub can do its job if and only if it can move enough air.

So you presumably support my recommendation for something on the larger side, yes?
Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

Also, its acoustic context has to be right, so room acoustics matters particularly in a tubed electronics context where all of the technology that has been developed since the middle 1960s is not available.

I've used processors for room correction followed by tube amplification. Why wouldn't the OP be able to do the same, should he desire to? I think the miniDSP would be something he should take a close look at, as it can do a better job than the automagic types (I'm NOT a fan of older iterations of Audyssey, although XT32 seems less obtrusive to me), and is small and can be tucked away so his audiophile friends won't realize he's using fancy modern processing.
post #57 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne Highwood View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fermelom View Post

I'm concern that a bigger cone would bring uncontrolled bass that it's exactly the opposite of what I'm looking for.

It may be counterintuitive, but bigger bass drivers don't bring "uncontrolled bass", at least not necessearily. If anything, they have a better chance of providing tight, low distortion bass, as they move considerably less than smaller drivers do for the same spl.
Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

A sub can do its job if and only if it can move enough air.

So you presumably support my recommendation for something on the larger side, yes?

Yes, I'm in favor of sufficient subwoofer driver volume displacement.
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

Also, its acoustic context has to be right, so room acoustics matters particularly in a tubed electronics context where all of the technology that has been developed since the middle 1960s is not available.

I've used processors for room correction followed by tube amplification.

I don't know that a true-blue tubed amp fancier would be interested in interposing wretched sand-state components in their audio chain. ;-)
Quote:
Why wouldn't the OP be able to do the same, should he desire to?

Something about the kind of mind set that pays the tube tax in the first place?
Quote:
I think the miniDSP would be something he should take a close look at, as it can do a better job than the automagic types (I'm NOT a fan of older iterations of Audyssey, although XT32 seems less obtrusive to me), and is small and can be tucked away so his audiophile friends won't realize he's using fancy modern processing.

Seems unlikely that someone who had already paid so much to avoid good modern technology would be interested in such a lapse. ;-)

If they are going to be this rational, why not just go modern all the way?
post #58 of 83
Arny, that's quite the caricature of the typical tube amp guy you have there. Does that really fit any who have posted in this thread?
Edited by Wayne Highwood - 10/21/13 at 11:09am
post #59 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne Highwood View Post

Arny, that's quite the caricature of the typical tube amp guy you have there. Does that really fit any who have posted in this thread?

I can't read minds.

But technology, logic and reason gives me not a clue why a person would bother with tubes if not to drink deeply out of the retro technology glass.
post #60 of 83
Arny, believing the science/technology/reason and appreciating tube amps are not mutually exclusive. They're complimentary if anything. And I don't see anyone promoting the idea of "drinking from the retro glass" (Kool-aid, presumably) in this thread, just a dude who made a frugal tube amp purchase asking about compatible speakers and possible subs.
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