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Official Epson EH-TW 9200 5030UB Owners' Thread - Page 44

post #1291 of 2927
Quote:
Originally Posted by rprice54 View Post

Finally got around to some real live action 3D, had my first movie night with a bunch of friends from work come over to watch the Hobbit (the only live action shot in 3D I have so far). Wow and wow. Watched in THX mode, calibrated with the S&M disc. Plenty bright. I think, even in the dark scenes, the director paid attention to lighting specifically for 3D. Important characters/elements always had some kind of direct lighting, or backlighting enough to define their outlines- so there was always enough light for 3D (as opposed to the Avengers, for example, where some scenes at the beginning they are just too dark to really be watchable in 3D IMHO).

Anyways, everyone said it was the best 3D they had seen. One guy almost didn't come because he always gets motion sick with 3D- no so last night- and that's during a 3+ hour movie.

I did feel kinda bad, the guy who bought my 8500 came over, I think he's wanting 3D now...

The fan was noticable to me one time during a quiet scene, and I'm pretty sensitive to it. Otherwise we cranked the volume up and got lost in the movie. I will say, after the first hour or so I quit paying attention to the 3D effects and just let myself get immersed in the movie- it was simply amazing. Felt like I was there, but without the soap opera effect (I did have FI on low).

Anyways, it proved to me that 1)THX cinema 3D mode is plenty bright, for well made 3D movies. 2) The fan is only an issue for really quiet material and only when it's on 3D or high lamp (sits directly above my seating position, 8' ceilings). 3) This PJ rocks.

BTW I calibrated 3D settings with the S&M disc, haven't tried 3D dynamic yet for comparison, but I was very happy with the colors/blacks during the movie last night.

I don't have a way to fine tune individual colors (ie no color meter). But I did use the gain for each color against the individual color contrast menus on the advanced video portion of the disc. Greens were getting WAY crushed in dynamic mode and had to be turned down to the tune of -12 gain. Does that seem excessive?

What level brightness in 3D was your setting at and what lamp mode was it in?
post #1292 of 2927
Thx 3D. There's no lamp option for that setting.
post #1293 of 2927
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barsk View Post

I calibrate with my own gear and have some experience with the calibration process. The black level is not something you can improve with calibration, it is the hardware of you PJ that sets the bottom limit. Although you can dial in (with brightness control) at what level the videl should be displayed at so the video level black matches exactly the level 16 in the standard blackness pattern. When set properly video levels will display black correctly by not crushing black nor washing them out by making them too gray. This is not done with a probe, it is done by eye so anyone can do this step easily at home. Just download the AVSHD 709 patterns disk or similar. Same with white level. Set contrast by eye so that the white level indicated in the pattern is not clipped. Again with just a pattern disk.

Grayscale tracking affect the cleanliness of the grays and the color temperature. The standard here is D65, i.e 6500 Kelvin. This is a very important part of calibration to get this as good as possible. If wrong it will skew colors as well. It is done with a probe and proper software. This cannot be done by eye.

The next thing is to set gamma correctly and this is also done with a probe and proper software. This cannot be done by eye. The gamma is how luminosity increases with increasing stimulus. Different gamma curves (2.2, 2.4 etc) afffects how bright a image should be in the shadows and in the highlights. A higher gamma will yield darker shadows that will work well in dark rooms Lower gamma equals brighter shadows and works well in brighter rooms. Video is recorded with a standard gamma curve and it is essential that the display mimics this exactly so we don't get uneven "steps" in brightness. That will show as banding or posterization issues and will cause smooth gradients to display poorly. As gamma deals with brightness it affects the perception of blackness directly. Poorly calibrated the shadows can bee to deep (crushed) or too shallow giving washed out gray. Gamma also affects the perceived contrast. Especially a higher gamma can make the image "pop" more if the room admits it. But it should never be allowed to crush blacks.

Color decoding and calibration is next as color is set to produce the REC 709 standard gamut. Each primary and secondary color is dialled in to set the exact level of lightness, hue and saturation due to the standard.

All in all you should not expect better blacks as that is native to the PJ, but you should expect better shadows, and gamma tracking in general. And perfect grayscale and colors. All these things in combination is what makes an image "pop". Get one of them wrong and the picture will work well in some situations but only so-so in others...

From what I have heard calibrating the 5030/9200 should be easy and yield excellent results. I expect to get my own TW9200 next week. I'll know more then for sure. smile.gif
Best of luck with your pro calibration!

THANKS! I'm having it calibrated by a real pro...so I'm sure it will be awesome.
post #1294 of 2927
Quote:
Originally Posted by blbrchnk View Post

Anyhow, long story short, I bought the epson 5030 and even just projecting on my ICS styrofoam insulated wall, it looks amazing.

I purchased a 120" 1.1 gain screen and I was going to build a screen wall to fit it.  I was avoiding installing the screen until the wall is built and some more of the construction is done.  My questiuon/dilemma came into play when I zoom out the focus and get a much larger image.  It is damn impressive making me want a larger screen.  So, my room is 28' deep and the projector can go pretty much anywhere right now.  Seating will be around the 15' mark.  How big is too big?

Honestly, it is you that needs to make the decision!

My opinion is that 120" is too small. When I was building my theater years ago, I put my Panasonic AE700 (720p, showing DVDs) on a ladder and projected it on the blank wall. My wife and I never measured - just played around with size & height (seats had to go at 11 feet).

In the end, after about 2 weeks of experimentation, we settled - and measured. 133", and about 20" off the ground. So, we are sitting 11 feet back from a 11 foot (diagonal) screen (I bought a DaLite 1.1 fixed frame that I really like).

Just upgraded to the 5030, but I have not watched it yet (kids have watched several movies) - noise did not seem noticeable in 2D, and it was just showing DVDs.


Go to a fabric store and buy a few yards of "black out" cloth - the heavy white cloth hotels put on the back of curtains to block light. We hung that on our wall to give a smooth surface while experimenting with size. Put that on your wall and spend a couple weeks deciding size & height that is best for you. You can make decent DIY screens with the cloth, but it is only 4' wide, so small screens!

Here's my pre-theater screen - the image size we chose was bigger than the cloth!
post #1295 of 2927
Just fired up my new 5030 smile.gif


....wow
post #1296 of 2927
So I returned my IOGear Wireless HDMI kit to Amazon today. It's not that I had a problem with it (if you really need or want to use Wireless I'd still recommend it over the UBE model) but I discovered today when my new Marantz NR1603 A/V receiver arrived that the problem was simply with my old Onkyo unit and not my existing in-ceiling cable - which technically isn't "3D" ready being 5 or 6 years old but is of a heavy enough gauge/quality that it doesn't matter. 3D works great with it and the Marantz.

I had to recalibate due to these changes (also switched to a Sony BDP-5100 from my PS3, it being a much better BD player - the PS3 has really fallen behind, and the PS4 (which I got last week) is terrible out of the box for BD) but that didn't take long - looks fantastic. Really love the 5030ub, even with the loud fan in 3D.

Thinking about getting it professionally calibrated after all - the THX modes are really good, but I want to punch up Living/Dynamic.
post #1297 of 2927

Is anyone else noticing noise from the auto-iris?  Mine has an audible rumbling sound, like your stomach is growling (and it's not my stomach growling).

post #1298 of 2927
I did hear it as well. It is rather annoying and I believe I even see some "dark swirling" the picture when it happens. Too distracting for me. And since this is my first 3lcd pj ( came from a refurbished Rs1) the black level seems to be already tremendous without this feature so I leave it off. It is quite a pleasant picture thus far.

I do have some questions though:

- what would be the best mode for a non pro calibration? Thx? Cinema? Or should I go with what looks best to me? I've been reading in reviews that thx provides the best natural colors

- my prior 3D came from an acer h5360 / nvidia 3D vision so I was able to output one hdmi directly to the pj and optical to the receiver (as it is not a 3D receiver). Does anyone know if I can continue using 3D via the PC without nvidia 3D vision? I have a PS3 as well but not sure how to get audio from it if I have a straight run hdmi from PS3 to the PJ

- I never went with 3lcd projectors in the past as I was always afraid of dust blobs. Is that a thing from the past nowadays or could that still be an issue?
post #1299 of 2927
Quote:
Originally Posted by lsdavinci View Post

I did hear it as well. It is rather annoying and I believe I even see some "dark swirling" the picture when it happens. Too distracting for me. And since this is my first 3lcd pj ( came from a refurbished Rs1) the black level seems to be already tremendous without this feature so I leave it off. It is quite a pleasant picture thus far.

I do have some questions though:

- what would be the best mode for a non pro calibration? Thx? Cinema? Or should I go with what looks best to me? I've been reading in reviews that thx provides the best natural colors

- my prior 3D came from an acer h5360 / nvidia 3D vision so I was able to output one hdmi directly to the pj and optical to the receiver (as it is not a 3D receiver). Does anyone know if I can continue using 3D via the PC without nvidia 3D vision? I have a PS3 as well but not sure how to get audio from it if I have a straight run hdmi from PS3 to the PJ

- I never went with 3lcd projectors in the past as I was always afraid of dust blobs. Is that a thing from the past nowadays or could that still be an issue?

THX is best out of the box. I only had to tweak out a slight green bias on mine and punched up the brightness/contrast a little to suit my room/screen. I don't have pro tools but I've read elsewhere here that grey scale is pretty accurate in this mode as well.

As for 3D, if you mean for games and such on your HTPC, I couldn't get it to work without the 3D Vision kit - the glasses for the PJ are RF, the nVidia kit is IR, and the only way I see to get games to use 3D is by using nVidia's setup. There's probably a way but I didn't figure it out.

SBS movies and the like I got to work without problem with the PJ's setup.
post #1300 of 2927
It was more for 3D blu-rays. I cannot afford to buy an equivalent performance 3D receiver at this time so was curious to see if there was a way to get 3D blu rays going with either the PC or the PS3. Dying to see the 3D performance of the PJ
post #1301 of 2927
Black Levels: For those of you having issues with black levels. it comes down to your screen mainly. High gain screens will give a grayish cast in dark scenes. The only way to go around it is to get a Gray screen with a gain of 1.1 or lower.

What helps: Turn down the brightness setting. I have my PJ in Dynamic mode but use the following settings to fix color and contrast:
Brightness: -3
Contrast: +3
Color: -7

That has definitely improved blacks, cut down on the intensely orange skin tones (orange skin tones only occur in extreme tungsten lit scenes).

Noise issue: My auto iris is set on normal and I can never tell when it's active. No sound issues there. Also I run my PJ in Dynamic + ECO mode. No noise there. The fans are so quiet in ECO you can hardly tell the PJ is there. Also life of bulb is dependent on power, not image mode. ECO is timed at 5000 hours of bulb life.

So that's two ways of cutting down on noise.

3D: Nothing you can do about noise here.
post #1302 of 2927
Quote:
Originally Posted by lsdavinci View Post

It was more for 3D blu-rays. I cannot afford to buy an equivalent performance 3D receiver at this time so was curious to see if there was a way to get 3D blu rays going with either the PC or the PS3. Dying to see the 3D performance of the PJ

Do you still have the Nvidia 3D vision kit with the USB dongle? if you still have the dongle, you will be able to use TMT5 or PowerDVD to play 3D bluray.

if you don't have the dongle any more, you will need to buy the $39.95 driver to run 3D bluray on your Nvidia card.

http://www.nvidia.com/object/3dtv-play-overview.html

scroll 1/2 way down, you'll see the buy button for the Nvidia 3D TV Play software.

3dvision.jpg
post #1303 of 2927
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ix View Post

THX is best out of the box. I only had to tweak out a slight green bias on mine and punched up the brightness/contrast a little to suit my room/screen. I don't have pro tools but I've read elsewhere here that grey scale is pretty accurate in this mode as well.

technically natural mode, Low lamp is the best out of the box settings regarding greyscale and gamma setting. THX mode gamma is too high, peaks with 2.45+ which can kill shadow detail on this projector since it doesn't have enough native contrast to handle that gamma. Natural mode is closer to 2.2. THX mode also tweaks the color gamut outside the R709 spec.

for those running dynamic mode as a primary mode, you might consider a smaller screen, or a larger screen with high gain. The color is way off in this mode and can't really be corrected even with expensive calibration equipment. The green push is huge on 90-100 IRE and if you lower it to accommodate, it will be way off for 50-80. In other words, it's not linear in their attempt to achieve maximum brightness.

Living room mode can crank out a solid 1100+ lumens when calibrated to D65 and it's much better behaved during the greyscale calibration.
post #1304 of 2927
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

technically natural mode, Low lamp is the best out of the box settings regarding greyscale and gamma setting. THX mode gamma is too high, peaks with 2.45+ which can kill shadow detail on this projector since it doesn't have enough native contrast to handle that gamma. Natural mode is closer to 2.2. THX mode also tweaks the color gamut outside the R709 spec.

for those running dynamic mode as a primary mode, you might consider a smaller screen, or a larger screen with high gain. The color is way off in this mode and can't really be corrected even with expensive calibration equipment. The green push is huge on 90-100 IRE and if you lower it to accommodate, it will be way off for 50-80. In other words, it's not linear in their attempt to achieve maximum brightness.

Living room mode can crank out a solid 1100+ lumens when calibrated to D65 and it's much better behaved during the greyscale calibration.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

Do you still have the Nvidia 3D vision kit with the USB dongle? if you still have the dongle, you will be able to use TMT5 or PowerDVD to play 3D bluray.

if you don't have the dongle any more, you will need to buy the $39.95 driver to run 3D bluray on your Nvidia card.

http://www.nvidia.com/object/3dtv-play-overview.html

scroll 1/2 way down, you'll see the buy button for the Nvidia 3D TV Play software.

Thanks for both of these posts! I should find a good pro in the Austin, TX area to calibrate mine.

Had no idea about the 3DTV software - if I am reading that right, I can use it to use my PJ's glasses/etc instead of the 3D Vision kit? As it happens, I have one of those for my PC, so if I read that correctly I should be able to install the software for free.

Hmm, guess what I am about to do smile.gif
post #1305 of 2927
yes that's correct. With the Nvidia IR dongle installed, It will enable the 3D playback from either TMT5 or PDVD and put's the projector in 24P Frame Packed mode which is the standard for 3D bluray. Then your projector's glasses should be activated once you see the stereo image.

let us know how you make out.

ps. for a while people were upset with Nvidia for charging for 3D Bluray playback if you didn't own the 3D Vision kit.
post #1306 of 2927
I haven't used TMT for a long time, but with PowerDVD you don't have to have the USB dongle or the extra cost nVidia software. I use PDVD with the Epson. Once you turn on stereo 3D in the nVidia control panel and activate it in the PowerDVD software (3D icon at the bottom), you're good to go.
post #1307 of 2927
Thanks for all the 3D info. I obviously haven't sat down yet and tested so it's good to know going in. As for powerdvd, what version? as I still have v10
post #1308 of 2927
PDVD10 should work. I'm using 13.
post #1309 of 2927
PowerDVD doesn't play 60i 3D files from my camcorders (JVC and Panasonic MVC files). Several of us have tried to get Cyberlink to add the support, but so far they won't. Don't know if it's a licensing issue or just laziness. Seems like it should be easy to support it. 24p Blu-ray 3D plays just fine.
post #1310 of 2927
Quote:
Originally Posted by Janhaus View Post

Hey guys,

I've been reading up on projector mounts and would like to get some opinions. I ordered the 5030UB version and my ceiling is light-colored so I would like to get a silver/white mount if possible.
Somebody recommended this exact mount:
http://www.amazon.com/Peerless-PRGUNV-Precision-Universal-Projector/dp/B000TXNS6G/

which is great, has a ton of reviews but the silver version costs 30% more. Is this the model I should be getting? Or should I get the 'newer model' recommended by Amazon here:
http://www.amazon.com/Peerless-PRGUNV-PRG-PRO-Universal-Projector/dp/B00BVW69LA/ref=dp_ob_title_ce

and if this is a good one to use, it seems like I could pick up the white version of it here (the pictures are identical):
http://www.amazon.com/Peerless-PRGS-UNV-Projector-Projectors-Capacity/dp/B0098SM0LW/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1384708850&sr=8-2&keywords=peerless+prg-unv-w

Any thoughts? Just trying to nail down a specific model to get, I know that Peerless/Chief are both pretty good but which model should I get for the 5030UB? smile.gif


Any answers to this one? I too would love to get the white one for the WAF smile.gif
post #1311 of 2927
Well, I was able to simply turn on stereoscopic 3D on the PC and low and behold, it all worked! I tested with all 3 color mode settings in 3D (thx/cinema/dynamic) and dynamic was the best of the 3 by a long shot. Now I just have to figure out how to calibrate as the reds seem to be high.

And since I mentioned calibration, is there a thread on how to calibrate an Htpc? It seems that there are so many places one can calibrate. On the PC end or on the projector? And if in the projector, what setting should the PC be on?
post #1312 of 2927
good deal on the 3D setting. Dynamic looks good because it's the brightest but the color is off by a mile. Once you correct it, you won't be far off the brightness of Cinema mode which is much closer to correct color in 3D mode.

In order to calibrate, you will need a meter + software. There are some inexpensive solutions out there to get started. You would typically calibrate the projector. The 5030 is relatively easy to calibrate compared to other projectors and doesn't need anything more than the built in color controls to get great color out of this projector.

greyscale is the most important since the gamma and color gamut are already reasonably good from the factory.
post #1313 of 2927
Question: I know epson rates the life of their bulbs pretty high, but do they actually last that long in real life?
post #1314 of 2927
Quote:
Originally Posted by nickoakdl View Post

Question: I know epson rates the life of their bulbs pretty high, but do they actually last that long in real life?
Hard to answer, everyone has different tolerances for how dim a bulb can get before being replaced. I highly doubt anyone uses a bulb with as many hours on it as they rate it -- I would think their rating is with zero lumens left. The trick I do and others do is start in ECO mode then when lumens drop too much (say 1500 hours) switch to Normal mode and recalibrate projector and keep that up as long as you choose. With that strategy I'm at about 2400 hours on a 6010 lamp and it still looks decent.
post #1315 of 2927
Quote:
Originally Posted by Janhaus View Post

Hey guys,

I've been reading up on projector mounts and would like to get some opinions. I ordered the 5030UB version and my ceiling is light-colored so I would like to get a silver/white mount if possible.
Somebody recommended this exact mount:
http://www.amazon.com/Peerless-PRGUNV-Precision-Universal-Projector/dp/B000TXNS6G/

which is great, has a ton of reviews but the silver version costs 30% more. Is this the model I should be getting? Or should I get the 'newer model' recommended by Amazon here:
http://www.amazon.com/Peerless-PRGUNV-PRG-PRO-Universal-Projector/dp/B00BVW69LA/ref=dp_ob_title_ce

and if this is a good one to use, it seems like I could pick up the white version of it here (the pictures are identical):
http://www.amazon.com/Peerless-PRGS-UNV-Projector-Projectors-Capacity/dp/B0098SM0LW/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1384708850&sr=8-2&keywords=peerless+prg-unv-w

Any thoughts? Just trying to nail down a specific model to get, I know that Peerless/Chief are both pretty good but which model should I get for the 5030UB? smile.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgetfreaky View Post

Any answers to this one? I too would love to get the white one for the WAF smile.gif

My two cents:
  • The version that every comment I've seen recommends (and the one that has a bunch of amazon reviews) is what amazon says is the "older" version. When I was looking, I also wondered if I should get the purportedly "newer" one but decided against it given (a) the absence of any reviews/info on it that I could find, and (b) the very positive word on the other.
  • Personally, I don't think white would be much (if at all) more aesthetically pleasing than black. The mount is blocked from view by the projector itself from most angles. And the 5030 isn't pure white; the back and front are both black, and thus even if/when you can see the mount, the black color matches those parts of the projector.
post #1316 of 2927

So, I have an Epson 5300UB proj. and have been firing at the far wall of my theater room for the better part of a week now with no screen......I've got to say....It looks pretty darn good.

So the question I have for you guys is......Do I really need a screen?  Even just on a textured wall it looks awesome, and spending 1400 + on SI 1.1gain screen seems a bit crazy to me. I was looking at the lunette curved screens by elite as well...and they look cool....But how much of a difference does a screen actually make? Truth be told, I thought my wall looked better than the screen presentation they had at Best Buy, which appeared washed out to me.

 

Thanks!

 

Joe

post #1317 of 2927
Quote:
Originally Posted by L0nestar View Post

So, I have an Epson 5300UB proj. and have been firing at the far wall of my theater room for the better part of a week now with no screen......I've got to say....It looks pretty darn good.


So the question I have for you guys is......Do I really need a screen?  Even just on a textured wall it looks awesome, and spending 1400 + on SI 1.1gain screen seems a bit crazy to me. I was looking at the lunette curved screens by elite as well...and they look cool....But how much of a difference does a screen actually make? Truth be told, I thought my wall looked better than the screen presentation they had at Best Buy, which appeared washed out to me.

Thanks!

Joe

Many people paint the walls with some sort of screen paint that would run much cheaper for you ,but it is totally up to you and what you like. I remember people using sheets to show movies on and were happy
post #1318 of 2927
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by L0nestar View Post
 

So, I have an Epson 5300UB proj. and have been firing at the far wall of my theater room for the better part of a week now with no screen......I've got to say....It looks pretty darn good.

So the question I have for you guys is......Do I really need a screen?  Even just on a textured wall it looks awesome, and spending 1400 + on SI 1.1gain screen seems a bit crazy to me. I was looking at the lunette curved screens by elite as well...and they look cool....But how much of a difference does a screen actually make? Truth be told, I thought my wall looked better than the screen presentation they had at Best Buy, which appeared washed out to me.

 

Thanks!

 

Joe

 

I would say you absolutely need a good screen to get the most out of a good PJ. A PJ and screen, to me anyway, are both components in a two part system. The system will only be as good as the two parts.

 

While you can get acceptable results from throwing onto a wall, a good screen has significant benefits and you can also tailor the choice to your room, its environment (light, dark, reflective etc). The reason yours looks better than BB's is probably because there was a lot of ambient light at BB when you saw it. If your room is light-controlled, your image will be better than theirs even though they have a screen and you only have a wall. They also may not have had the PJ set up well.

 

One of the things about a PJ/screen is that there can never really be a single answer to many issues because the conditions of viewing are so different from one room to another. Throw distance, calibration, preference, light output, 3D/2D, auto-Iris on/off, lamp settings, screen gain, screen type etc etc all have the role to play. I, for example, project from just 9 feet (small room) onto a 92 inch diagonal screen in a totally light controlled environment. So I will never have a problem with brightness, in 3D say, whereas someone throwing from a much bigger distance onto a much bigger screen may have just that issue - and a higher gain screen might, in that case, be a good solution. For me, a high gain screen would be a terrible idea as I have no problems getting the lumens I want on the screen.

 

So I would say, yes, get a decent screen for the environment in which you use the PJ. Without knowing how you use it, it isn't possible to give specific suggestions.

post #1319 of 2927

Double post.

post #1320 of 2927
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
 

 

I would say you absolutely need a good screen to get the most out of a good PJ. A PJ and screen, to me anyway, are both components in a two part system. The system will only be as good as the two parts.

 

While you can get acceptable results from throwing onto a wall, a good screen has significant benefits and you can also tailor the choice to your room, its environment (light, dark, reflective etc). The reason yours looks better than BB's is probably because there was a lot of ambient light at BB when you saw it. If your room is light-controlled, your image will be better than theirs even though they have a screen and you only have a wall. They also may not have had the PJ set up well.

 

One of the things about a PJ/screen is that there can never really be a single answer to many issues because the conditions of viewing are so different from one room to another. Throw distance, calibration, preference, light output, 3D/2D, auto-Iris on/off, lamp settings, screen gain, screen type etc etc all have the role to play. I, for example, project from just 9 feet (small room) onto a 92 inch diagonal screen in a totally light controlled environment. So I will never have a problem with brightness, in 3D say, whereas someone throwing from a much bigger distance onto a much bigger screen may have just that issue - and a higher gain screen might, in that case, be a good solution. For me, a high gain screen would be a terrible idea as I have no problems getting the lumens I want on the screen.

 

So I would say, yes, get a decent screen for the environment in which you use the PJ. Without knowing how you use it, it isn't possible to give specific suggestions.

 

The projector is approx: 13.5 ft from the wall. It is a dedicated theater room, and is totally light controlled. No ambient light present. We would like to have at least a 120in viewing area, for movies in both 3D and 2D @ a 16:9 aspect ratio. Regular TV and gaming probably won't be happening in that room much...if at all.

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