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Official Epson EH-TW 9200 5030UB Owners' Thread - Page 50

post #1471 of 2956
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by willymo View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Turning the automatic iris on and off doesn't, in itself, have any effect on the blacks. The iris only works when the scene brightness drops by a certain level - when the iris 'sees' this happen, it closes down to give the appearance of better blacks. To test it you need to do something to make the on-screen scene go from mixed black and white to just black. One suggestion has already been made, which is to set the BD player to a black scene, with it on pause, and then put up the Epson menu. You will hear (and see) the iris working as you show and remove the menu.

It's nothing to do with the throw - I am throwing 9 feet and my iris is working perfectly.

Thanks. I know it's working, but what I'm saying is last night as I was playing around with it, the picture looked a little better with it off. Do you notice a difference in your blacks with it on? Also, if it is "off", does that mean the iris is fixed at its widest point?

 

OK. I assume you can hear it working if the room is very quiet?  I can hear mine easily if there is no content playing (it is almost directly above my head - about 4 feet up).

 

The difference I see when auto iris is engaged is just what I'd expect - deeper perceived blacks. It is quite noticeable on certain scenes and under test of the sort described above. The light level drops noticeably as the iris engages,. This is with the iris in high speed mode - I assume yours is in HS mode when you are using it?

 

I believe that when auto iris is disengaged via the menus that the iris will be wide open, but this is speculation. It could be wide open or less than wide open and it will still shut down dramatically when the right picture conditions present themselves.  The only way to test it is with dynamically changing conditions - you can't see any effect on a static picture.

 

What do you see when doing the 'menu on screen and off' test?  Do it both with auto iris on and off - you should see the blacks get darker when auto iris is on and you exit the menu, and you should see no difference at all when it is off. 

post #1472 of 2956
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by willymo View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gpmbc View Post

Another forum member gave me this tip to determine my iris was in fact working. "If you have the projector menu displayed during a dark scene, with the iris on, and when you exit the menu, the auto iris lowers the light output - you can observe this easily. Similarly, when the Auto Iris is off, and you exit menu display, there is no change in the light output from the projector." I could then clearly see the effect of the iris and with movie content it works well, just doesn't jump out you which I think is a good thing.

I was going to post on this very subject. I know my Iris works. However, I was playing around with it last night by shutting it off, then back on. I noticed no difference in the blacks in my setup! In fact, I was watching star trek into darkness and actually felt that the letterbox bars looked a little deeper with it off! Am I seeing things? It seems that the blacks appear more "stable" to me with the iris turned off, in my setup (I also have the super white turned off). Could it be because of my short throw (I can't go back any further)? I'm throwing about 10.5 feet away from a 100 inch white drop down screen. I'm going to try turning the Iris off with 3d to see if I notice the same thing, and I'm going to leave it off until further notice to do some more critical viewing until I get my projector professionally calibrated on Saturday. I'll see what the calibrator recommends.

Anyone else see something similar in their setups? Thanks....smile.gif

 

The bolded part is where I think you are going wrong. You won't see a difference when engaging or disengaging the auto iris as such - you have to do it on a scene where the brightness level drops overall. Do the test described - that is an easy way to see it working.

 

I can also see and hear it working when the Oppo screensaver on my BD player is moving the Oppo logo around the screen. As the logo changes position and moves from the centre to the corners, the iris closes down and you can see the black behind the logo darken noticeably. Any scene where there is dynamic content like this will demonstrate the effect - the 'menu test' is the easiest to do as we all have the Epson menu available - just pause the disc on a very dark or preferably totally black scene (such as you see sometimes in a movie when the screen fades to black).

post #1473 of 2956
What do you see when doing the 'menu on screen and off' test?  Do it both with auto iris on and off - you should see the blacks get darker when auto iris is on and you exit the menu, and you should see no difference at all when it is off. 
[/quote]

With the menu test and the iris set to high speed, I saw the blacks get as deep as they would get with the iris off!! The black bars actually looked a little deeper with it off as well. With the Iris off, the blacks were steady black, if that makes sense. In eco/low lamp mode, it appears as if the auto iris is not necessary in my setup (at least with the star trek disc.. ) It seems that the Iris would be more useful in high lamp or dynamic mode. I would have to look at more material to make a better assessment. Anyone else have any thoughts?
post #1474 of 2956
Re the iris, on certain scenes when there is predominantly black, I can definitely see the iris at work and the black bars look darker top and bottom. When more light is present for a more typical scene, the bars look more greyish.

There is still a lot of contrast within the pic so the bars don't bother as much as previous set ups. I still want to do some masking to take it from good to great. My only challenge is I use an AT screen so no issue on the top but the bottom mask would impede the path of the speakers.
post #1475 of 2956
Hey guys, I'm expecting my 5030 to arrive any day now. Since this is my first 3D projector (or 3D tv for that matter) I'm curious what device you would recommend for streaming 3D movies from my home network? I have a Pivos AIOS, but I don't believe it supports 3D. Thanks for any suggestions.
post #1476 of 2956
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gpmbc View Post

Re the iris, on certain scenes when there is predominantly black, I can definitely see the iris at work and the black bars look darker top and bottom. When more light is present for a more typical scene, the bars look more greyish.
 

 

Yes, when more light is present the iris will open up again. Usually, on a scene with mixed bright and dark areas your eyes will 'stop down' themselves (much like the iris does) and the perception of black will then be better. This is the principle that bias lighting works on. The 'black' bars will never be truly black no matter which PJ you have, using current technologies. 

 

 

Quote:

There is still a lot of contrast within the pic so the bars don't bother as much as previous set ups. I still want to do some masking to take it from good to great. My only challenge is I use an AT screen so no issue on the top but the bottom mask would impede the path of the speakers. 

 

Masks are certainly the best route and this is why real cinemas use them. If you go to the cinema and watch the commercials, often the projectionist will leave the screen at full frame during this part of the presentation and you will get black bars on any content that is in Scope format - just like at home. Take a look at how gray they are!

 

Can you not raise your speakers behind the AT screen slightly?

post #1477 of 2956
Sitting on the floor of my office...waiting patiently to go home with me... biggrin.gif



Big day for me...this is my first PJ...and yes I will be hooking it up when I get home. My wife just called and said she won't be home with the kids until about 8 or 8:30 tonight. Am I dreaming or what???? tongue.gif
post #1478 of 2956
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Masks are certainly the best route and this is why real cinemas use them. If you go to the cinema and watch the commercials, often the projectionist will leave the screen at full frame during this part of the presentation and you will get black bars on any content that is in Scope format - just like at home. Take a look at how gray they are!

Can you not raise your speakers behind the AT screen slightly?
They're 68"tall so no more to be raised. Do you think black grill cloth doubled/tripled up could be of any effect? If so I could try to make a frame for it as opposed to solid backing.

I tried to lower the pic with the vertical adjustment so one big black bar vs two. Would have been fine but again would impede the path of the speakers this time at the top instead of the bottom.
post #1479 of 2956
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gpmbc View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Masks are certainly the best route and this is why real cinemas use them. If you go to the cinema and watch the commercials, often the projectionist will leave the screen at full frame during this part of the presentation and you will get black bars on any content that is in Scope format - just like at home. Take a look at how gray they are!

Can you not raise your speakers behind the AT screen slightly?
They're 68"tall so no more to be raised. Do you think black grill cloth doubled/tripled up could be of any effect? If so I could try to make a frame for it as opposed to solid backing.

I tried to lower the pic with the vertical adjustment so one big black bar vs two. Would have been fine but again would impede the path of the speakers this time at the top instead of the bottom.

 

Black speaker cloth could be worth a try. Generally velvet of some sort is used because it kinda 'absorbs' light. No harm in trying some speaker cloth - just roughly attach a piece and see if it works. You could even prop up a speaker grille temporarily. My feeling is that since the cloth is acoustically transparent it also has holes in it and if these holes pass sound then they will also probably pass light. Might still be an improvement though.

post #1480 of 2956
Thx Kb
post #1481 of 2956
Quote:
Originally Posted by gpmbc View Post

They're 68"tall so no more to be raised. Do you think black grill cloth doubled/tripled up could be of any effect? If so I could try to make a frame for it as opposed to solid backing.

I tried to lower the pic with the vertical adjustment so one big black bar vs two. Would have been fine but again would impede the path of the speakers this time at the top instead of the bottom.

Keep in mind that bass frequencies will essentially ignore your mask. If you are partially blocking the low frequency drivers with a mask, you likely won't have a problem. Of course, I'm assuming a three-way speaker, since the woofers in a two-way speaker will be carrying information up to 2 kHz or higher. But if you're "blocking" woofers that only produce frequencies up to 100 Hz or so, I would think the mask would have little or no effect on the sound as perceived at the listening position.
post #1482 of 2956
Quote:
Originally Posted by gpmbc View Post

Re the iris, on certain scenes when there is predominantly black, I can definitely see the iris at work and the black bars look darker top and bottom. When more light is present for a more typical scene, the bars look more greyish.

There is still a lot of contrast within the pic so the bars don't bother as much as previous set ups. I still want to do some masking to take it from good to great. My only challenge is I use an AT screen so no issue on the top but the bottom mask would impede the path of the speakers.

If someone wonders if auto iris doing anything if I have it on fast speed mode and fast forward on my DVR I will hear it grinding away a lot as it quickly tries to adjust to fast changing scenes. Adjusting brightness level also important for good blacks.
post #1483 of 2956

Has anyone tied the DARBEE into the 5030?

post #1484 of 2956
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnnapolisSony View Post

Sitting on the floor of my office...waiting patiently to go home with me... biggrin.gif

Sweet. You're in for a great weekend -- projected NFL, NHL, movies -- it's hard to beat.

I'm still waiting for mine.frown.gif
post #1485 of 2956
Quote:
Originally Posted by gpctv02 View Post

Has anyone tied the DARBEE into the 5030?
Yep, the Darbee compliments it nicely. When doing the demo mode of the Darbee the improvement in detail is obvious. There is a limit where too much will negatively impact the pic.
post #1486 of 2956
Quote:
Originally Posted by bkeeler10 View Post

Keep in mind that bass frequencies will essentially ignore your mask. If you are partially blocking the low frequency drivers with a mask, you likely won't have a problem. Of course, I'm assuming a three-way speaker, since the woofers in a two-way speaker will be carrying information up to 2 kHz or higher. But if you're "blocking" woofers that only produce frequencies up to 100 Hz or so, I would think the mask would have little or no effect on the sound as perceived at the listening position.
18" midbass is at the bottom below the screen and the horn section/mids would be right in the path of the mask.
post #1487 of 2956
Quote:
Originally Posted by reanimator View Post

Sweet. You're in for a great weekend -- projected NFL, NHL, movies -- it's hard to beat.

I'm still waiting for mine.frown.gif

I just spent about an hour and a half playing around with my 5030 that came today and I will sum it all up in 5 words. INCREDIBLE. OUT. OF. THE. BOX.

It is my first PJ, but the PQ was so much better than I had anticipated. My wife was blown away when she came down. 100 inches of pure bliss. The kids were tickled to death watching about 10 mins of Rio on the OPPO.

And for the record, Mumford and Sons Live at Red Rocks was the first BR I watched on the PJ (at a very high volume) and it made a grown man cry (thank God my wife and kids weren't home yet). What a phenomenal experience.

When I get the room finished I will calibrate it and make sure this thing is performing at its absolute best. I also like the fact that we are all digging into this new PJ together...so we can all benefit and learn from one another. Cheers, Toby
post #1488 of 2956
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Yes, when more light is present the iris will open up again. Usually, on a scene with mixed bright and dark areas your eyes will 'stop down' themselves (much like the iris does) and the perception of black will then be better. This is the principle that bias lighting works on. The 'black' bars will never be truly black no matter which PJ you have, using current technologies. [/SIZE]

So here's a question for you. On LCD TVs we typically go to great lengths to turn off auto-dimming because, while having it on does improve black levels in dark scenes, it also crushes blacks and kills shadow detail. Why do I never see anyone in the projector forums complaining of this and turning off auto iris? I love black levels as much as anyone else (don't snicker...I know I own an LCD tongue.gif ) but I think I like shadow detail just about the same. I'd rather see what's going on in the shadows then increase black levels at the expense of those extra details. That's kinda why I was considering the JVCs with their native good blacks (auto iris off). Thoughts?
post #1489 of 2956
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnnapolisSony View Post



I just spent about an hour and a half playing around with my 5030 that came today and I will sum it all up in 5 words. INCREDIBLE. OUT. OF. THE. BOX.



It is my first PJ, but the PQ was so much better than I had anticipated. My wife was blown away when she came down. 100 inches of pure bliss. The kids were tickled to death watching about 10 mins of Rio on the OPPO.



And for the record, Mumford and Sons Live at Red Rocks was the first BR I watched on the PJ (at a very high volume) and it made a grown man cry (thank God my wife and kids weren't home yet). What a phenomenal experience.



When I get the room finished I will calibrate it and make sure this thing is performing at its absolute best. I also like the fact that we are all digging into this new PJ together...so we can all benefit and learn from one another. Cheers, Toby

 



Great to hear. I am still putting my HT together and am looking forward to finally seeing all the hard work pay off. I am going with the 6030 but am thrilled to see lots of happy people in the 5030 thread.
post #1490 of 2956
Does anyone know where to get a very short (say 1 foot) power cable for the 5030? Had a plug added to the ceiling right next to the spot where I'm going to mount it and don't want a big cable coil there. Thanks
post #1491 of 2956
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolRebel View Post

Does anyone know where to get a very short (say 1 foot) power cable for the 5030? Had a plug added to the ceiling right next to the spot where I'm going to mount it and don't want a big cable coil there. Thanks

is this what your looking for?

http://www.monoprice.com/Product?seq=1&format=2&p_id=5277&CAWELAID=1329450773&catargetid=320013720000011048&cadevice=c&cagpspn=pla&gclid=CP7JnIqynLsCFeFlOgodVxwAjw

52771.jpg
post #1492 of 2956

+1 on the Monoprice cord above. I bought the 15' version of that for my 5030 and it works flawlessly.
post #1493 of 2956
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnnapolisSony View Post


And for the record, Mumford and Sons Live at Red Rocks was the first BR I watched on the PJ (at a very high volume) and it made a grown man cry (thank God my wife and kids weren't home yet). What a phenomenal experience.

When I get the room finished I will calibrate it and make sure this thing is performing at its absolute best. I also like the fact that we are all digging into this new PJ together...so we can all benefit and learn from one another. Cheers, Toby

I got that Red Rocks disc last year, as a present for my wife. It's a darn good disc, even though they aren't directly my thing.

In other news, my projector's here!! I got the dreaded notice on the door yesterday when I got back from getting groceries. Signature requirements are a pain. I'll finish putting up my new screen tonight. Can't wait!
post #1494 of 2956
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg_R_STL View Post

I got that Red Rocks disc last year, as a present for my wife. It's a darn good disc, even though they aren't directly my thing.

In other news, my projector's here!! I got the dreaded notice on the door yesterday when I got back from getting groceries. Signature requirements are a pain. I'll finish putting up my new screen tonight. Can't wait!

You're gonna love it, Greg. Always good to see a fellow St. Louisan posting here on AVS. Feel free to drop me a PM if you want to talk home theater. I've met lots of great people in the metro area through AVS.
post #1495 of 2956

Thanks...gonna pick one of those up as well.

Also, what would you guys recommend in the way of a thin(ish) 20 foot HDMI cable? I was looking at the redmere stuff, but they seem to jump from 15' to 30' unfortunately.
post #1496 of 2956
20 feet isn't a common size. Doesn't hurt to go longer, like 30 feet. I have this one:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0050K0E1U/ref=oh_details_o07_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
post #1497 of 2956
post #1498 of 2956
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ix View Post

20 feet isn't a common size. Doesn't hurt to go longer, like 30 feet. I have this one:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0050K0E1U/ref=oh_details_o07_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Thanks...but it doesn't appear they make a 30 foot version. Really don't think I want to go for a 35' when I really only need a 20'.
post #1499 of 2956
I'm setting up the projector now, and I have a dumb question: Isn't there supposed to be a built in vertical offset to the image, even before lens shift is used? When I switch from shelf to ceiling mode, the image flips, but the offset is exactly the same. What's up with that? Does the 5030 rely totally on its vertical lens shift adjustment to get this right?
post #1500 of 2956
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viche View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Yes, when more light is present the iris will open up again. Usually, on a scene with mixed bright and dark areas your eyes will 'stop down' themselves (much like the iris does) and the perception of black will then be better. This is the principle that bias lighting works on. The 'black' bars will never be truly black no matter which PJ you have, using current technologies. [/SIZE]

So here's a question for you. On LCD TVs we typically go to great lengths to turn off auto-dimming because, while having it on does improve black levels in dark scenes, it also crushes blacks and kills shadow detail. Why do I never see anyone in the projector forums complaining of this and turning off auto iris? I love black levels as much as anyone else (don't snicker...I know I own an LCD tongue.gif ) but I think I like shadow detail just about the same. I'd rather see what's going on in the shadows then increase black levels at the expense of those extra details. That's kinda why I was considering the JVCs with their native good blacks (auto iris off). Thoughts?

 

I know very little about LCD TVs unfortunately and only have one which I use for non-critical TV viewing.  The way the local dimming works is quite different to the way an auto iris works so I am not sure the two technologies can be compared in this way. I would never use an LCD TV for critical viewing as their black performance is, for me anyway, unacceptable.

 

The auto-iris feature will vary in its usefulness depending on manufacturer. In my Epson I have it engaged in High Speed mode and I find it works very well - it darkens the blacks a little when required and doesn't seem to adversely affect shadow detail to a significant degree. I can occasionally see the iris working but this is pretty rare and on balance the superior black performance is worth it.  The JVC may perform better as it doesn't need an auto iris to achieve its excellent black level performance. I couldn’t consider the JVC unfortunately as I cannot physically accommodate it in my room.

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