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Official Epson EH-TW 9200 5030UB Owners' Thread - Page 66

post #1951 of 2959
Quote:
Originally Posted by crussell1492 View Post

Is it just me, or does the de-interlacing capability on the 5030 just suck.? My 6 year Sanyo Z2000 did a better job of de-interlacing the signal from my DISH Hopper.
I finally just turned it off on the 5030 and its a big improvement, particularly with sports viewing. Way too much blurring. I do keep FI on high, Super Res on zero.

How is the De-interlacing turned off,.. and What is FI ??

Thanks
post #1952 of 2959
Quote:
Originally Posted by randyc1 View Post

How is the De-interlacing turned off,.. and What is FI ??

Thanks
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
In t

In the Signal settings you can turn off "de-interlacing" and Frame Interpolation (FI)
post #1953 of 2959
Quote:
Originally Posted by crussell1492 View Post

Is it just me, or does the de-interlacing capability on the 5030 just suck.? My 6 year Sanyo Z2000 did a better job of de-interlacing the signal from my DISH Hopper.
I finally just turned it off on the 5030 and its a big improvement, particularly with sports viewing. Way too much blurring. I do keep FI on high, Super Res on zero.
Sure that you get an interlaced signal from your Dish hopper? If your device is set to output a progressive signal, then the deinterlacing is actually done in that device and not in the 5030. This may also occur if you are using a home theater receiver as a video switch. If the receiver or the hopper upscales to HD res it also does deinterlacing.

To make sure that you actually get an interlaced signal to the 5030 check the Information menu option. If interlaced it should say 480i or 1080i.
From the reviews I have seen the deinterlacing perfromance of the 5030 should be spotless. I haven't tried the deinterlacing myself in the 5030 since all my devices produce progressive output already, for instance DVD play in my Blu-ray player upscales and deinterlaces (progressive scan) perfectly already, but I would assume the 5030 does it equally well.
post #1954 of 2959
Yes, I'm sure the Hopper outputs a 1080i signal (except for a few 1080P PPV Movies) and that is verified with the Info screen on the PJ
post #1955 of 2959
Quote:
Originally Posted by crussell1492 View Post

Is it just me, or does the de-interlacing capability on the 5030 just suck.? My 6 year Sanyo Z2000 did a better job of de-interlacing the signal from my DISH Hopper.
I finally just turned it off on the 5030 and its a big improvement, particularly with sports viewing. Way too much blurring. I do keep FI on high, Super Res on zero.

When you say you finally just turned it off on the 5030 can you please explain? On normal HD programming the Hopper outputs 1080i (or 720p for certain channels but you likely have DISH Hopper setup to always output 1080i) but the projector requires 1080p and deinterlaces to it if it is fed an interlaced signal so who is doing the deinterlacing when you're seeing a big improvement?

I have a DISH Hopper (set to output 1080i) and an Epson 6010 and agree the image doesn't look very good but I've blamed it on compression, not the Epson, not sure if my assumption is correct.
post #1956 of 2959
I am going to the PJ settings, Signal Menu, and Setting De-interlacing to Off, so nothing is doing the de-interlacing, I am just watching a 1080i signal, and my point is, it looks much better than setting the Deinterlacing setting in the PJ to "ON" (Auto/Film or Video, I have tried both.)

I am seeing WAY too much motion blur with the 5030 doing the de-interlacing, looks find with no de-interlacing. Which leads me to the conclusion that the de-interlacing sucks on this PJ.
post #1957 of 2959
I have a optoma dlp hd20 projector now for 3 years. It's a good little projector. I am considering buying the epson 5030, I'm not sure on how much of an improved quality picture ill get but the optoma contrast is 4,000 to 1. Where as the 5030 is 600,000:1.

Surely that's a huge difference , plus I'd really like to have 3d

I can't seem to find the refresh rate anywhere on the 5030. Does anyone know what it is ? My optoma has a 60hz. I was hoping my next projector would have at least 120 so my picture will be less blurring
post #1958 of 2959
Quote:
Originally Posted by crussell1492 View Post

I am going to the PJ settings, Signal Menu, and Setting De-interlacing to Off, so nothing is doing the de-interlacing, I am just watching a 1080i signal, and my point is, it looks much better than setting the Deinterlacing setting in the PJ to "ON" (Auto/Film or Video, I have tried both.)

I am seeing WAY too much motion blur with the 5030 doing the de-interlacing, looks find with no de-interlacing. Which leads me to the conclusion that the de-interlacing sucks on this PJ.
You're conclusion is wrong. Digital projectors like LCD are progressive in nature and only display in progressive, not interlaced, so if you have your hopper set to 1080i, then the 5030 is deinterlacing it to 1080p and displaying it on it's "3LCD" panels. The setting you're talking about is the frame rate interpolation, i.e.- video (30 frames/second) and film (24 frames/second) and how it auto detects which one it's getting and then uses things like 3/2 pull down for film to recover the original 24 frames, then with modern displays, it multiplies the frames in an even multiple (48, 72, 96, 120, 240) to eliminate judder, stutter, motion blur, etc. The best ones use a common multiple of both film and video like 120 (30 frames x 4; 24 frames x 5) and 240 (30 frames x 8; 24 frames x 10) so it works well for all source material.
post #1959 of 2959
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by crussell1492 View Post

I am going to the PJ settings, Signal Menu, and Setting De-interlacing to Off, so nothing is doing the de-interlacing, I am just watching a 1080i signal, and my point is, it looks much better than setting the Deinterlacing setting in the PJ to "ON" (Auto/Film or Video, I have tried both.)

I am seeing WAY too much motion blur with the 5030 doing the de-interlacing, looks find with no de-interlacing. Which leads me to the conclusion that the de-interlacing sucks on this PJ.

 

You can’t watch 1080i on your PJ. It is a 1080p display and always has to show a 'progressive' image. Similarly, it is impossible to 'turn off' deinterlacing on a progressive display. Something, somewhere in the chain, has to deinterlace an interlaced image before the display can use it. This can be done at various places along the chain - the source unit (eg. BD player) can do it, or the AVR (or VP if you use one) can do it, or the display itself can do it.  If the signal is deinterlaced prior to reaching the display then the display sees a deinterlaced image and does nothing to it. If the signal arrives at the display in interlaced form (ie nothing in the chain has already deinterlaced it) then the display itself has to to deinterlace it.

 

You usually have two or three options as to where you perform the deinterlacing and the idea is to select whichever component deinterlaces the best. It sounds as if you haven’t yet hit on the best place to deinterlace if your PQ is suffering as you say.  I would try each component and then do a viewing test to see which performs best. For example, if you set the source unit to something like 'through' or 'direct' (they all call them different names) then the AVR is set to send 1080p, the AVR is doing the deinterlacing. If you set the source to 1080p, then that unit is doing it and so on. If you set neither unit to deinterlace, then the PJ will do it. You only need to deinterlace once so select the best place and then turn it off in other units in the chain.

post #1960 of 2959
Tested some deinterlacing myself now.
I tried with a DVD with film (Independence day) which I played in my panasonic blu-ray. I set the video output to 1080i (there was no 480i or "through" setting) so I would assume the player would only scale the image, no deinterlacing.
In the PJ I see I get 1080i. The image was perfectly fine. No deinterlacing artefacts. It looked like it was doing progressive scan and retreiving the original frames and using those.

Another DVD I had from a vacation with "pure" video footage. It was processed though by the diving firm to produce the DVD, so I cannot tell if there was some improper video handling in that process that created progressive frames from the interlaced fields. Anyway this DVD DID show severe jaggies in motion, as if there was no deinterlacing taking place at all. I had no other "pure video" source to test from unfortunately to confirm if there was a problem with this DVD or with pure video deinterlacing in general.

So, deinterlacing from film DVD was perfect. Deinterlacing from my questionable video DVD was poor. But don't put to much weight on my second test. It may be flawed.
post #1961 of 2959
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Harper View Post

You're conclusion is wrong. Digital projectors like LCD are progressive in nature and only display in progressive, not interlaced, so if you have your hopper set to 1080i, then the 5030 is deinterlacing it to 1080p and displaying it on it's "3LCD" panels. The setting you're talking about is the frame rate interpolation, i.e.- video (30 frames/second) and film (24 frames/second) and how it auto detects which one it's getting and then uses things like 3/2 pull down for film to recover the original 24 frames, then with modern displays, it multiplies the frames in an even multiple (48, 72, 96, 120, 240) to eliminate judder, stutter, motion blur, etc. The best ones use a common multiple of both film and video like 120 (30 frames x 4; 24 frames x 5) and 240 (30 frames x 8; 24 frames x 10) so it works well for all source material.


What does setting "De-interlacing" to OFF do then? There are 3 values for that setting " Off, Auto/Film, and Video)
post #1962 of 2959
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

You can’t watch 1080i on your PJ. It is a 1080p display and always has to show a 'progressive' image. Similarly, it is impossible to 'turn off' deinterlacing on a progressive display. Something, somewhere in the chain, has to deinterlace an interlaced image before the display can use it. This can be done at various places along the chain - the source unit (eg. BD player) can do it, or the AVR (or VP if you use one) can do it, or the display itself can do it.  If the signal is deinterlaced prior to reaching the display then the display sees a deinterlaced image and does nothing to it. If the signal arrives at the display in interlaced form (ie nothing in the chain has already deinterlaced it) then the display itself has to to deinterlace it.

You usually have two or three options as to where you perform the deinterlacing and the idea is to select whichever component deinterlaces the best. It sounds as if you haven’t yet hit on the best place to deinterlace if your PQ is suffering as you say.  I would try each component and then do a viewing test to see which performs best. For example, if you set the source unit to something like 'through' or 'direct' (they all call them different names) then the AVR is set to send 1080p, the AVR is doing the deinterlacing. If you set the source to 1080p, then that unit is doing it and so on. If you set neither unit to deinterlace, then the PJ will do it. You only need to deinterlace once so select the best place and then turn it off in other units in the chain.


The PJ is indeed receiving am interlaced signal, as confirmed by the Information option on that main menu, which clearly shows that the signal the PJ is receiving is interlaced and not progressive, The Hopper is outputting a 1080i signal, the AVR passes the video signal untouched, and the de-interlacing on the PJ is set to OFF.
post #1963 of 2959
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by crussell1492 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

You can’t watch 1080i on your PJ. It is a 1080p display and always has to show a 'progressive' image. Similarly, it is impossible to 'turn off' deinterlacing on a progressive display. Something, somewhere in the chain, has to deinterlace an interlaced image before the display can use it. This can be done at various places along the chain - the source unit (eg. BD player) can do it, or the AVR (or VP if you use one) can do it, or the display itself can do it.  If the signal is deinterlaced prior to reaching the display then the display sees a deinterlaced image and does nothing to it. If the signal arrives at the display in interlaced form (ie nothing in the chain has already deinterlaced it) then the display itself has to to deinterlace it.

You usually have two or three options as to where you perform the deinterlacing and the idea is to select whichever component deinterlaces the best. It sounds as if you haven’t yet hit on the best place to deinterlace if your PQ is suffering as you say.  I would try each component and then do a viewing test to see which performs best. For example, if you set the source unit to something like 'through' or 'direct' (they all call them different names) then the AVR is set to send 1080p, the AVR is doing the deinterlacing. If you set the source to 1080p, then that unit is doing it and so on. If you set neither unit to deinterlace, then the PJ will do it. You only need to deinterlace once so select the best place and then turn it off in other units in the chain.


The PJ is indeed receiving am interlaced signal, as confirmed by the Information option on that main menu, which clearly shows that the signal the PJ is receiving is interlaced and not progressive, The Hopper is outputting a 1080i signal, the AVR passes the video signal untouched, and the de-interlacing on the PJ is set to OFF.

 

Yes, of course it can receive an interlaced signal. But it can't display one. All that happens if it received an interlaced signal, as I explained above, is that the PJ deinterlaces it itself. 

 

The 5030 is a progressive display. It can only display a progressive signal  - 1080p for example. That is what the 'p' in 1080p stands for. You can’t have deinterlacing switched off in every component in the chain, as I explained.  Somewhere has to deinterlace the signal. 

 

This is what the manual says the menu item means:

 

Sets whether to convert interlaced-to-progressive signals for certain video image types

Off: for fast-moving video images

Video: for most video images

Film/Auto: for movies, computer graphics, and animation 

post #1964 of 2959
Quote:
Originally Posted by crussell1492 View Post

What does setting "De-interlacing" to OFF do then? There are 3 values for that setting " Off, Auto/Film, and Video)
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

This is what the manual says the menu item means:

Sets whether to convert interlaced-to-progressive signals for certain video image types
Off: for fast-moving video images
Video: for most video images
Film/Auto: for movies, computer graphics, and animation 

Based on that manual excerpt I'd guess that 'OFF' will not apply any correction algorithms to handle motion differences between the two interlaced frames, when building a single progressive frame from the two 'halves' in an interlaced video signal. Here's a WIKI article on de-interlacing, which explains the common methods used to deal with motion.
post #1965 of 2959
thanks, makes sense.
So I will modify my assertion to read " I believe that the 5030's algorithms to handle motion differences between the two interlaced frames, when building a single progressive frame from the two 'halves' in an interlaced video signal", sucks. At least compared to my 6 years old Sanyo Z2000. At least for live sports, it's "best" setting seems to be "OFF"
post #1966 of 2959
Quote:
Originally Posted by crussell1492 View Post

... At least for live sports, it's "best" setting seems to be "OFF"

I'd say that's in keeping with their recommendation that the OFF setting is best for de-interlacing with fast motion. It's always nice to have options - do you know what your Sanyo was doing with the signal? I'm waiting on shipment of a 5030UB and will test that with a direct connection to my sat box, which outputs 1080i at best. I also have an Oppo 103D that I will be running all my sources through specifically for the video processing, so I'll compare the 'direct' connection to the de-interlacing the Oppo does and see if I notice a difference.
post #1967 of 2959
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by crussell1492 View Post

thanks, makes sense.
So I will modify my assertion to read " I believe that the 5030's algorithms to handle motion differences between the two interlaced frames, when building a single progressive frame from the two 'halves' in an interlaced video signal", sucks. At least compared to my 6 years old Sanyo Z2000. At least for live sports, it's "best" setting seems to be "OFF"

 

Now we’ve got past the hurdle that the PJ is somehow displaying an interlaced image, try deinterlacing elsewhere in the chain, and then pick whichever does it best. You probably have at least three places you can deinterlace so it doesn’t make sense to try only one of them.

 

BTW, how do you deduce that a feature working as described "sucks"?  Live sports have fast motion, yes?  Epson have provided an option for dealing with/improving deinterlacing with fast video sources - and it works, as evidenced by the fact that when you set it to OFF, the PQ is better. Yet you say this sucks?

post #1968 of 2959
Quote:
Originally Posted by WestCDA View Post



I'd say that's in keeping with their recommendation that the OFF setting is best for de-interlacing with fast motion. It's always nice to have options - do you know what your Sanyo was doing with the signal? I'm waiting on shipment of a 5030UB and will test that with a direct connection to my sat box, which outputs 1080i at best. I also have an Oppo 103D that I will be running all my sources through specifically for the video processing, so I'll compare the 'direct' connection to the de-interlacing the Oppo does and see if I notice a difference.

 



I am curious as to how it turns out for you as I too will be using an Oppo 103 (to Darbee or not the Darbee) with my 6030.
post #1969 of 2959
For what it's worth, I also have Dish but it's connected to a Onkyo 3009 AVR which handles all the video processing. I don't have any DI options available (all greyed out) because the signal coming out is progressive. I assume that the input signal is coming from Dish interlaced.

Watching sports sucked at first until I realized that I was outputting 1080p/24 from the AVR. After learning a little more about 24 (used with most TV shows and films) and finding that sports and 24 don't jive too well, I changed my AVR to output to 1080p and everything is awesome now. One of the reasons why I don't need an Oppo vs my Pan bdt220 is because the Onkyo does all the work.

I will change the AVR to output interlaced and see what that does but I don't foresee a reason to ever do this beyond just playing around with DI options on the PJ.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
post #1970 of 2959

Hey All,

 

I'm sure this is covered somewhere in here but this thread is pretty meaty by now...

 

How do is test convergence and use the panel alignment tools? 

 

Thanks!

 

LOVE THIS PROJECTOR! Have not calibrated or anything and the thing looks great in THX/FI - Low/Auto Iris - High.  CIH set up watching Hobbit 3d and Pacific Rim…Wow!

post #1971 of 2959
I have asked everywhere on avs about what the refresh rate is on this projector and I can't seem to get an answer lol. So I called epson today. They told me that all epson projectors including the pro series projectors have a 60 hz. That's what my current dlp is. I was hoping for a 120 hz projector so the motion would be smoother
post #1972 of 2959
Quote:
Originally Posted by kirtis_mcleskey View Post

I have asked everywhere on avs about what the refresh rate is on this projector and I can't seem to get an answer lol. So I called epson today. They told me that all epson projectors including the pro series projectors have a 60 hz. That's what my current dlp is. I was hoping for a 120 hz projector so the motion would be smoother

That's what CFI is for...
post #1973 of 2959
I need some help with my 6030-I am not sure what to set the Video output from my Sony S570 Blu-ray player to. The choices are :
Auto
YCbCr 4:2:2
YCbCr 4:4:4
RGB

I have tried using each and to my untrained eye, can't really see much difference. I also tried using a demo screen from the HD Basics DVD for 1:1 pixel analysis, but am not really sure what I should be looking for , what I see is distortion in almost all of the boxes, regardless of what the video output of the Sony is set at.
I would really appreciate your expertise regarding the output setting.
Thank you.
post #1974 of 2959
Quote:
Originally Posted by kirtis_mcleskey View Post

I have asked everywhere on avs about what the refresh rate is on this projector and I can't seem to get an answer lol. So I called epson today. They told me that all epson projectors including the pro series projectors have a 60 hz. That's what my current dlp is. I was hoping for a 120 hz projector so the motion would be smoother

Don't compare this to a TV set. I have a plasma as my other viewing source for direct comparison. I can't see any motion blur on either set. My mom has a 120hz LED TV that has terrible blur. My primary use of the PJ is for football and it's amazing.
post #1975 of 2959
Quote:
Originally Posted by kirtis_mcleskey View Post

I have asked everywhere on avs about what the refresh rate is on this projector and I can't seem to get an answer lol. So I called epson today. They told me that all epson projectors including the pro series projectors have a 60 hz. That's what my current dlp is. I was hoping for a 120 hz projector so the motion would be smoother
I can't compare it with your current setup, but I've watched several Bowl games on my 120" screen sitting 10' from the screen and I don't see any motion blur. I have Frame Interpolation set to 2 or 3, I forget which.
post #1976 of 2959
Now that I understand that De-Interlacing = OFF does not actually mean I am looking at a 1080i pic, and with that setting set to off I am satisfied with the PQ. But it means I have to have another memory setting for Sports, and separate settings for TV non-sports viewing. Easy for me to deal with, not so easy for everyone else in the house. With my Sanyo Z2000, what ever the de-interlacing settings were, I didn't seem to need to modify them for different types of TV viewing. I guess that is what I mean by "sucks". As far as having other devices in the "chain" do the de-interlacing, the DISH Hopper cant do it, My Yamaha AVR doesn't do any video processing, so I have to rely on the PJ to do it.
post #1977 of 2959
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderDelarg View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by WestCDA View Post



I'd say that's in keeping with their recommendation that the OFF setting is best for de-interlacing with fast motion. It's always nice to have options - do you know what your Sanyo was doing with the signal? I'm waiting on shipment of a 5030UB and will test that with a direct connection to my sat box, which outputs 1080i at best. I also have an Oppo 103D that I will be running all my sources through specifically for the video processing, so I'll compare the 'direct' connection to the de-interlacing the Oppo does and see if I notice a difference.

 



I am curious as to how it turns out for you as I too will be using an Oppo 103 (to Darbee or not the Darbee) with my 6030.

I'll pass along what I find out once I've got the unit installed - sounds like best case from the Canadian reseller here will be another week+. smile.gif On a side note, I've been happy with the Darbee processing so far on a variety of sources. Subtle, but a definite improvement IMO.
post #1978 of 2959
Quote:
Originally Posted by WestCDA View Post

I'll pass along what I find out once I've got the unit installed - sounds like best case from the Canadian reseller here will be another week+. smile.gif On a side note, I've been happy with the Darbee processing so far on a variety of sources. Subtle, but a definite improvement IMO.

Did you happen to buy from visionhd.ca? I ordered one from them on Dec 22nd and was told they'd have them the next week. I waited and didn't hear back and now they won't return my emails. I tried calling but don't speak French. smile.gif
post #1979 of 2959
Quote:
Originally Posted by sm4llz View Post

Did you happen to buy from visionhd.ca? I ordered one from them on Dec 22nd and was told they'd have them the next week. I waited and didn't hear back and now they won't return my emails. I tried calling but don't speak French. smile.gif

Yes I did, primarily because of their discounted price when I decided to order just prior to Christmas. Since then I've sent two emails via their online contact page, a week apart, neither of which was replied to. I finally called them yesterday, which is when I was told there would be stock available next week. I made a point of mentioning that no-one responded to either of my follow-up emails and asking why, as it reflects very poorly on their company's customer service. The response from the person I talked to was that they have been very busy, and he took down my name and order number information. Unfortunately I still haven't had an email reply from them, I'll see what happens next week.

Don't worry about the language - if they answer the call 'Bonjour', just respond 'Hello' and inquire about your order in English. The majority of businesses in the Montreal area (St. Hubert is just to the east) are bilingual - and this company is advertising to a larger market than just Quebec. In the rare event that the person answering cannot converse in English they will pass the call to someone who can.

When you get an update on your order status, do ask about the lack of response to your emails. As I said it may be a seasonal hiccup, but I'm disappointed to hear you had the same experience. You'd think a company trying to grow their online business (and develop a good reputation with the online community) would make good customer communications a top priority.

Good luck, and please advise if you have any new info ... smile.gif
Edited by WestCDA - 1/5/14 at 12:45am
post #1980 of 2959
Thanks guys.
I was comparing it to a tv cause my dads tv is alot smoother than my optoma hd 20

As I've stated the hd 20 contrast is 4,000:1 where as the 5030 is a 600,000:1

Can the two numbers be compared ? Or can you not look at it that way due to one projector being a dlp and the other a LCD. I'm really wanting to give this projector a go. I just wanna see a significant improvement over my hd20
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