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Official Epson EH-TW 9200 5030UB Owners' Thread - Page 15

post #421 of 2956
Quote:
Originally Posted by phillip2013 View Post

I think that I'm the first to ask this question or make this request, but surely I can't be the only one who is curious about the enhanced B&W Film setting.  Can you, zombie10k took at look at this feature?  Is it just hype without substance?  I watch a lot of B&W films - so if there actually is a great difference between the 5030 and a (hopefully soon) discounted 5020 or refurbished 5010, then that could make the decision for me between the three projectors.  Of course, if anyone else has said experience than I'd love to know.

-phillip

This from HDGURU:

There’s also a new dedicated “black and white” mode, tweaked to look a bit warmer (think more “sepia tone”) with B&W movies.

I think this sounds like hype. Black and White movies, unless they were dyed for a specific reason (i.e. Blue to represent night, Yellow to represent daytime) were always meant to be seen in black and white. Unless you were viewing the movie on a projector with a seriously aged bulb there should be no "Sepia Tone" to a regular black and white film. I was hoping, when I first heard of the black and white mode, that the gray scale had been improved. It's doesn't seem to be the case although I don't think the gray scale on any of these projectors is bad at all.

E
post #422 of 2956
It is not hype. The B & W mode on the 5030 is calibrated to 5400 Kelvin to simulate how these movies were intended to be viewed. If you're a fan of old B & W movies this mode could prove to be useful.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1404211/5400-color-temp-mode-for-black-and-white-films
post #423 of 2956
Quote:
Originally Posted by eliocon View Post


The 2011 models were the ones with the most consistent problems. I used to work for Magnolia and we had a LOT of issues with those. Honestly since Pioneer went to class D amps I really stopped liking their products. Not to mention the fact that they've gone with plastic fronts on a supposed "Premium" product. Personally I'd probably steer you towards Marantz or Yamaha. Both give you way better built and designed components than Denon (Yes I know Denon and Marantz are the same company but Marantz has really hobbled the Denon line to underscore the "Premium" line they consider the Marantz line-up) or Pioneer. But that's a discussion for a different forum. wink.gif AND it's just my opinion. smile.gifbiggrin.gif:cool:

 

OK - thanks. I'm not locked into any one brand to replace the 3808 yet, but will need to obviously before doing 3D. I'll consult the wisdom of the forum here before that happens. ;-)

post #424 of 2956
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith Mickunas View Post


Are you aware that the 5030 doesn't support 2.35:1 natively? You'll need a processor and anamorphic lens if you plan on using a 2.35:1 screen, otherwise you have to manually zoom and focus each time you switch formats.

 

Hey yeah, I'll be going for the poor man's zoom approach to get a 2:35 1 image. I messed with a 5020 and it did take a bit of noodling with the zoom/lens shift when changing aspect ratios, but it didn't seem like it was a deal breaker. Hard to say without living with it for a while though. More worried about having to eventually spend $500 on a BR player (oppo) so I can shift subs up into the frame.

 

BTW sorry for the double post...just realized there is this quote button (hopefully i can delete that other one).

post #425 of 2956

it's good to see cine4home agrees with my initial impressions. smile.gif

I experimented with calibrating the 'Living room' and 'Dynamic Mode' settings to see how well I could calibrate the grayscale.

The projector is ~ 19 feet from the 142" for these tests

  • for reference - Natural mode, 6500K setting, high lamp. calibrated grayscale is ~ 700 lumens at this throw distance. btw, 'low' lamp with these settings is about as close as you can get to great 'out of the box' performance. Normal lamp, the grayscale changes substantially with dE's off the scale with red and blue seriously overwhelming green. You don't need a meter to see how far off this is. It can be easily corrected, but you will need cal equipment to get it right. Gamma and color gamut perform very well with these settings.

  • Living room mode removes the internal filter and it gets brighter. I was able to semi-calibrate this to D65 and ended up with about 1150 lumens. The only real issue is 100% IRE is impossible to fix with built in controls, but 30-80 look pretty good. Gamma takes a hit in this mode, dipping below 2.0-1.9 in some areas. This is fine for ambient light TV viewing.

  • Dynamic mode - This is more difficult to calibrate but was able to get acceptable color (except 100% ire again is off) resulting in ~ 1700 lumens. This should also be ok for HDTV / ambient light viewing.

I keep the iris turned off because I can see the pumping sometimes and find it distracting. I can see it on the HW50 too. My darkened room + big HP screen magnify the situation and the native contrast is good enough where I don't really miss the DI.

overall this projector offers a great bang for the buck considering it's street price and it's newly improved 3D performance. Pacific Rim 3D looked excellent on the 5030. Very bright on my HP.
post #426 of 2956
Quote:
for reference - Natural mode, 6500K setting, high lamp. calibrated grayscale is ~ 700 lumens at this throw distance. btw, 'low' lamp with these settings is about as close as you can get to great 'out of the box' performance. Normal lamp, the grayscale changes substantially with dE's off the scale with red and blue seriously overwhelming green. You don't need a meter to see how far off this is. It can be easily corrected, but you will need cal equipment to get it right. Gamma and color gamut perform very well with these settings.

Could you clarify this? There are references to three lamp modes in this, high, low, and normal. I thought there were only two based on what people have been saying, and the names change depending on the modes you use.
post #427 of 2956
Zombie - How would you compare the 5030 to the HW50?
Thanks!
post #428 of 2956
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith Mickunas View Post

Could you clarify this? There are references to three lamp modes in this, high, low, and normal. I thought there were only two based on what people have been saying, and the names change depending on the modes you use.

thanks, I just realized I used 3 references. There is ECO and NORMAL as noted in the menus (low / high)

Eco grayscale out of the box on this particular sample is pretty good, ~ 5 dE. The lamp is still settling in, so this will likely change over the next 50-75 hours. Normal lamp is quite different - the dE's are in the 15-18 range with very hot red and blue. I had to knock it down ~ -10-12 on each color for now.

Stilz - The HW50 is brighter, calibrated to D65 / R709 w/ near perfect gamma. The Epson can match it, but not without a calibration. I prefer the 3D PQ of the Epson vs. the Sony, mainly due to brightness and less perceive flicker through the glasses. many don't see this, unfortunately my eyes are very sensitive to refresh rate. I prefer the Epson 5030 FI in 3D vs. the HW50 which I think is a little too much, I would have liked a lower option.

2D PQ - on my size screen, I need the RC turned on to make it as sharp as I prefer, but the RC has some artifacts with certain content. The 5030 with SR set to 3 can look just as good without the artifacts (mainly exaggerated grain).

The Sony has the great lag time, so it's still the 'go to' projector in this price range / quality for the gamers.

I like both projectors in different ways, but adding FI in 3D definitely raises the Epson up a few notches.
post #429 of 2956
Quote:
Originally Posted by garrettmoore View Post

Can anyone post a picture showing the bottom of the projector (or top, if you have it upside down for ceiling mounting)?

I just got my replacement unit. Here is a picture of the bottom.

post #430 of 2956
Does anyone have any recommendations for 3D calibration/settings? I tried the THX mode, which I assume gives the most accurate color, but it seemed a little dim. This is my first 3D projector, though, and first movie I watched on it, so it's possible that it's source material or just that I'm not used to 3D in the home environment.
post #431 of 2956
Jason..where is the lag time you said you would have us last night or the night before?
post #432 of 2956
Quote:
Originally Posted by chooze View Post

I just got my replacement unit. Here is a picture of the bottom.

Nice, thanks. Looks like I should be able to position the arms on my mount to use all 4 of the mounting posts.

Do you know what size screws they take? I can't find anything in the Epson manual OR my current Mitsubishi HD1000u manual. My EPC4010 mount manual is also quite useless -- it says "m3 x 21 / m4 x 21 / m5 x 21". What the hell? It only comes with one set of screws iirc.
post #433 of 2956
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmokruhl View Post

Does anyone have any recommendations for 3D calibration/settings? I tried the THX mode, which I assume gives the most accurate color, but it seemed a little dim. This is my first 3D projector, though, and first movie I watched on it, so it's possible that it's source material or just that I'm not used to 3D in the home environment.

Do you have a calibration disc? They are a great basis for a calibration. It's not as accurate as a full on professional calibration but it will get you somewhere in the ball park. The new Spears and Munsil disc has patterns for 3D calibration.

http://www.spearsandmunsil.com/portfolio/hd-benchmark-2-0/

Check it out...

E
post #434 of 2956
Quote:
Originally Posted by eliocon View Post

Do you have a calibration disc? They are a great basis for a calibration.

I guess I was looking for more general advice or plug-and-play settings, especially given the 3 different 3D modes. zombie10k has, for example, talked about (with respect to 2D) Natural mode, 6500K, ECO lamp being pretty ideal out-of-the-box, no (or very little) calibration required. For 3D, there's THX, Cinema, and Dynamic. Presumably, Dynamic is the brightest but also messes up the colors the most. Between THX and Cinema, is one clearly better than the other out-of-the-box or as a basis for further calibration?

I'm hoping not to have to pay for a professional calibration, especially given the way things seem to change with lamp age. Also, I've played around with calibration discs in the past and always end up second- and third-guessing myself when it comes to the settings.
post #435 of 2956
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmokruhl View Post

I guess I was looking for more general advice or plug-and-play settings, especially given the 3 different 3D modes. zombie10k has, for example, talked about (with respect to 2D) Natural mode, 6500K, ECO lamp being pretty ideal out-of-the-box, no (or very little) calibration required. For 3D, there's THX, Cinema, and Dynamic. Presumably, Dynamic is the brightest but also messes up the colors the most. Between THX and Cinema, is one clearly better than the other out-of-the-box or as a basis for further calibration?

I'm hoping not to have to pay for a professional calibration, especially given the way things seem to change with lamp age. Also, I've played around with calibration discs in the past and always end up second- and third-guessing myself when it comes to the settings.

I hear what you're saying. I think too much is made of the whole perfect calibration thing and it can take the joy out of this hobby. At the end of the day, calibrated or not, it's what your eyeballs prefer. I've worked with folks that were overjoyed with the results of a spot on calibration but I've also worked with folks that found a properly calibrated display lifeless and preferred dynamic mode with frame interpolation on high. I was a camera assistant on movies and commercials for a long time so I prefer to have my projectors calibrated. That being said it doesn't stop me from sometimes tweaking the picture a bit to get a little more detail out or possibly breathe a little life into the color palette. Not every disc is mastered perfectly so sometimes you may want to play until the image looks good to YOU. In the end you being happy with the image is all that really matters. Did you try the Cinema 3D mode? I think that one is supposed to be brighter.

E
Edited by eliocon - 10/16/13 at 7:07pm
post #436 of 2956
Quote:
Originally Posted by eliocon View Post

Doesn't the projector also have a living room 3D mode? I haven't got mine yet so I'm not sure of all the modes available.

According to the Epson specifications (I'm not in front of the projector at the moment), it's just the three modes I listed.

2D: Dynamic, Living room, Natural, THX, Cinema, B&W cinema
3D: Dynamic, Cinema, THX
post #437 of 2956
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmokruhl View Post

According to the Epson specifications (I'm not in front of the projector at the moment), it's just the three modes I listed.

2D: Dynamic, Living room, Natural, THX, Cinema, B&W cinema
3D: Dynamic, Cinema, THX

Dynamic always looks like crap. Did you try Cinema?
post #438 of 2956
Quote:
Originally Posted by dagameballa View Post

Jason..where is the lag time you said you would have us last night or the night before?

I know right?

Thats all I am waiting on and have been cheking and checking ever since he was going to do it when he received it..... jeez
post #439 of 2956
Quote:
Originally Posted by eliocon View Post

Dynamic always looks like crap. Did you try Cinema?

I only watched one movie and it was in 3D THX. I was waiting for one of the more calibration-experienced members of the forum to weigh in on the best settings for 3D.
post #440 of 2956
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbox1080p View Post

I know right?

Thats all I am waiting on and have been cheking and checking ever since he was going to do it when he received it..... jeez

I know you guys want actual measurements with numbers, but from someone who owned the 5020 and now owns the 5030, I don't notice any difference in lag time when using the "Fine" processing setting. No difference to my eyes. I can however say that with "Fast" processing enabled, it seems more responsive than last years 5020. The only problem is more artifacts in the picture and less sharp. Too bad the picture quality drops or I would use it more when gaming. Again, sorry I can't provide any real numbers, just my observations.
post #441 of 2956
Quote:
Originally Posted by mumbleypeg View Post


I have my 5020 14' back projecting a 130" image on a 180" screen. I use custom adjustable black felt masking all around. I sit 15' back from the screen. On flat white lettering I can sometimes see the pixels, but otherwise the image looks great!

 

My screen is 144" wide 16:9 format with 1st row ~ 11' back.  my 1st thought was maybe I should have gone bigger;)

Picture is very bright (in light controlled room) - my projector is sitting on shelf 19' back until I get it installed on ceiling.  My screen is "Flexiwhite" from Carlsplace (1.1 gain).
This is my 1st projector so no experience for comparison, but I am very pleased with my results

post #442 of 2956
Quote:
Originally Posted by JewDaddy View Post

I know you guys want actual measurements with numbers, but from someone who owned the 5020 and now owns the 5030, I don't notice any difference in lag time when using the "Fine" processing setting. No difference to my eyes. I can however say that with "Fast" processing enabled, it seems more responsive than last years 5020. The only problem is more artifacts in the picture and less sharp. Too bad the picture quality drops or I would use it more when gaming. Again, sorry I can't provide any real numbers, just my observations.

What is the default setting for the processing setting?
post #443 of 2956
Quote:
Originally Posted by General Custer View Post

I'm thinking of replacing a damaged denon avr 4810 and Panasonic pta ae-300 with a denon avr 4520 and the epson 5030. The hdmi Calbe connecting the two is a five year old 50ft Monoprice cable. I don't know if it will carry a 3d signal. It was bought before the 1.4 standard. Sine I don't want to rip my walls apart again, I was considering the epson with wireless hdmi.

The only thing the HDMI cable needs to do is support the High-Speed specification. It does not matter what "version" the cable has. in fact the HDMI standards specify that cables are NOT marked with versioning as this only confuses the user. Instead the cables should be marked with their capabilities. High-Speed is what you need for all consumer resolutions including 3D. 4K coming up is another deal that will probably need newer cables.

If your cable is'nt marked as High-Speed it may well work anyways. Try it. If it was a quality cable to start with it should work fine.
post #444 of 2956
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmokruhl View Post

I guess I was looking for more general advice or plug-and-play settings, especially given the 3 different 3D modes. zombie10k has, for example, talked about (with respect to 2D) Natural mode, 6500K, ECO lamp being pretty ideal out-of-the-box, no (or very little) calibration required. For 3D, there's THX, Cinema, and Dynamic. Presumably, Dynamic is the brightest but also messes up the colors the most. Between THX and Cinema, is one clearly better than the other out-of-the-box or as a basis for further calibration.

Dynamic mode is never correct, it sacrifices correctness for brightness. In europe we don't have the THX version unfortunately. It is supposedly the most color correct mode available. In last year's version both available 3D modes had an expanded color gamut that did not comply with standards. In 2D there is the Natural mode that does comply well with Rec.709 but there is no Natural mode in 3D so we europeans had to fiddle with the 3D Cinema mode to get it as close as possible to the standards. If you US guys can calibrate the 3D THX mode then that is the way, otherwise the 3D Cinema is closest.

Have to confess i don't own an Epson PJ yet, but I have read loads of reviews and the above is what is concurred from all the reviews. Correct me if I am wrong.

What I don't know and would hope to get confirmed is if the 3D Cinema mode complies better to standard this year compared to last year, i.e if the color gamut is correct or still expanded?
post #445 of 2956
Quote:
Originally Posted by WynsWrld98 View Post

What is the default setting for the processing setting?

Fine
post #446 of 2956
Quote:
Originally Posted by garrettmoore View Post


Nice, thanks. Looks like I should be able to position the arms on my mount to use all 4 of the mounting posts.

Do you know what size screws they take? I can't find anything in the Epson manual OR my current Mitsubishi HD1000u manual. My EPC4010 mount manual is also quite useless -- it says "m3 x 21 / m4 x 21 / m5 x 21". What the hell? It only comes with one set of screws iirc.

M4 9MM x 4, you can use longer screws with spacers...

post #447 of 2956
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post


[*] Living room mode removes the internal filter and it gets brighter. I was able to semi-calibrate this to D65 and ended up with about 1150 lumens. The only real issue is 100% IRE is impossible to fix with built in controls, but 30-80 look pretty good. Gamma takes a hit in this mode, dipping below 2.0-1.9 in some areas. This is fine for ambient light TV viewing.


[*] Dynamic mode - This is more difficult to calibrate but was able to get acceptable color (except 100% ire again is off) resulting in ~ 1700 lumens. This should also be ok for HDTV / ambient light viewing.
[/LIST]

FWIW, I calibrate my 5010 only in Dynamic mode, and can get quite a flat gamma around 2.2. You need to use the sliders under custom gamma from graph. It does take some time, but it is possible. I prefer the added lumens and can't see the issue with 100 IRE green with content, but of course can with the calibration disk window (skewed toward yellow).
post #448 of 2956
Hello everyone,
I owned a 5020ube for a while, but returned it because I thought the 3D performance was fairly poor. You can search my posts to get the whole story, but crosstalk was a big issue for me on two different units.

So... I've been using my old projector for the past 6 months, but I still want to get a new projector soon.

It looks like lots of people in this thread are saying the 5030ub has excellent 3D. Is it any better than the 5020ub?
post #449 of 2956
Quote:
Originally Posted by whokilledkaji View Post

Hello everyone,
I owned a 5020ube for a while, but returned it because I thought the 3D performance was fairly poor. You can search my posts to get the whole story, but crosstalk was a big issue for me on two different units.

So... I've been using my old projector for the past 6 months, but I still want to get a new projector soon.

It looks like lots of people in this thread are saying the 5030ub has excellent 3D. Is it any better than the 5020ub?

That's a tough one. I owned the 5020 and never really had an issue with crosstalk and I'm very sensitive to it. My only problem with the Epson 5020 while watching 3D was the motion and lack of sharpness. The 5030 has fixed this with Frame Interpolation now being an option along with Super Resolution.

Crosstalk....... I'm not sure because to me, it performs as good and a little better than the 5020. But again, I never had any issues with crosstalk on the 5020. I keep my glasses brightness on high and very rarely do I see crosstalk. The only real time I notice it is during the 3D menu's around text.

IMO, this is the best 3D in home viewing experience I've seen so far, and that includes the previous BenQ W7000 DLP Projector.
post #450 of 2956
Quote:
Originally Posted by JewDaddy View Post

That's a tough one. I owned the 5020 and never really had an issue with crosstalk and I'm very sensitive to it. My only problem with the Epson 5020 while watching 3D was the motion and lack of sharpness. The 5030 has fixed this with Frame Interpolation now being an option along with Super Resolution.

Crosstalk....... I'm not sure because to me, it performs as good and a little better than the 5020. But again, I never had any issues with crosstalk on the 5020. I keep my glasses brightness on high and very rarely do I see crosstalk. The only real time I notice it is during the 3D menu's around text.

IMO, this is the best 3D in home viewing experience I've seen so far, and that includes the previous BenQ W7000 DLP Projector.

Thanks for the reply!

Interesting.... You know, I wonder if I just had bad luck with the two 5020ube units that I tried? I had a lot of crosstalk. I could usually make one layer of "parallax" look good, but it would sacrifice other layers. Movies that make good use of the background like Hugo, the Avengers, Prometheus and Life of Pi always had crosstalk. Hugo looked particularly bad and in some cases, faces in the background would have up to three fairly distinct outlines.
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