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Official Epson EH-TW 9200 5030UB Owners' Thread - Page 18

post #511 of 2959
30ms would be great. Could you also check the mode with more processing. For most single player games I think some more lag would be tolerable. Switching to 'fast' for competitive only would be preferred by me.

I am also wondering about presets for 3D and 2D. Is it not possible to set some?

I am not yet decided between this and the SONY, but the pulsing of the SONY in 3D is not really for me.
post #512 of 2959
There are 10 memory settings, I was able to save the different RGB changes between 2D and 3D. it doesn't switch automatically, but it definitely beats making manual changes between different modes.

you just have to remember to make the change when going between 2D and 3D. They should make it automatically switch when the 5040 is released next year.. smile.gif
post #513 of 2959
Quote:
Originally Posted by odedia View Post

Hi all. I posted this on the Panasonic 8000 thread but thought perhaps people have can provide insight as well...

I am a bit conflicted about the projector + screen I want to get. I'm pretty much have the projector choices down to Panasonic AE8000 and the new Epson 5030. Price is not the real factor here, they are close enough to make it less of an issue.

I love Panasonic's ability to automatically zoom the image based on content. Can anyone who has this feature let me know how well it works? Is it useful or more of a gimmik that doesn't work all the time?

I can get a very nice Grandview tab-tensioned 140" 2.35:1 screen for a price cheaper than a fairly comparable 133" tab-tensioned screen... The only downsize is that 16:9 content will be 112", but I don't think it's such a bad size, since I sit only 4 meters (13 feet) from the screen. I will mostly be watching 2D content, but not only widescreen movies - some good TV shows like Breaking Bad (definetley going to rewatch the whole show once I get the projector) and Homeland, plus musical performances and 16:9 movies.

I rarely watch sports, except for the Mondeal that will come soon. I also don't watch any 3D right now (no set that supports it) but I might use it if it's a very good implementation. I hated all 3D movies in the theater except for The Hobbit in High Frame Rate. My mind simply cannot stand judder. If the frame interpolation is close enough to Hobbit level, I'm sold. I own a PS3 and an XBOX which I occasionally use for games (although I'm not a hardcore gamer by any means), and I understand the lag on the panasonic is much better than Epson's. what happens with IMAX movies like The Dark Knight, where the it switches between 16:9 and 2.35 in the middle of the movie? Isn't it too much of a pain to deal with?



On the other hand, the Epson is newer. I understand it has a better contrast, black levels, and the panels being used don't suffer as much from various convergence issues. Since there's no support for 2.35:1, I'll project to a 133"screen, making widescreen movies into 128" diagonal. I am not sure if 133" is the right size for 4 meters away, some like it that big (or even bigger), others do not. In a theater, I usually sit at the 5th of 6th row of a big theater, so I do like a big image. Another huge Epson advantage is the massive horizontal lens shift, making it possible for me to place it on a side cabinet I have in the kitchen (great WAF!). The panny will not work in that location - I'll need to mount it to the ceiling in the middle of our living room which looks bad. Epson has a rather good new 3D frame interpolation system (from what I read) - a must for me, which is why i didn't even consider the 5020.

Would appreciate your thoughts. I wonder if CIH setup will be too weird for a living room when watching non-movie material. I have a 50" plasma for most casual content, but for the rest of the 16:9 material I will use the projector.I have an idea for DIY masking on the left and right - using completely black curtains which will be aligned perfectly with the left and right areas of the screen when needed. When not in use I'll pull them up and they'll disappear into a drywall beam I'll place in front of all the setup.


Thank you for your thoughts.

I chose a 144" wide 16:9 (81" tall) after contemplating similar question along with Epson 5030 - my room is 20' wide x 24' deep and 10' high - I am very happy with the result and really like the 165" diag for football games - first thought on first movie was "wow maybe I could have gone bigger" - 

My front row is 11'8" back.  A friend has the Panasonic 8000 and I am pleased with the PQ, brightness and other aspects of the Epson and am now pleased I did not choose the Panny for the auto focus/zoom.

post #514 of 2959
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

They should make it automatically switch when the 5040 is released next year.. smile.gif

There's gonna be a new one? Maybe I should wait to see what the specs are... :P
post #515 of 2959
Quote:
Originally Posted by rprice54 View Post

There's gonna be a new one? Maybe I should wait to see what the specs are... :P

Sure there is. It will be introduced at CEDIA next year. smile.gif Only 11 months away.
Reply
Reply
post #516 of 2959
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post

Ceiling mounting a projector for an HP screen will reduce the gain considerably. It won't look bad, just not as bright. If you have to ceiling mount, look at other options, too. When I saw how much better the HP sample looked than my Firehawk, I figured out a way to make it work in my room. I had a high shelf mount for the Firehawk but was able to lower the projector for the HP. With my recent remodel, my projector is about a foot and a half above my head in an adjacent room, firing through a non-reflective glass. I'm getting very good gain. If I wanted to reduce it for 2D, I could put a neutral density filter in front of the lens. For 3D, there's no way I want to make it dimmer.

Thanks! Couple questions about the need to have the projector vertically centered with the HP screen. 1. If the proj and screen are lined up vertically, does the viewer need to be also? Basically can I raise my screen up a bit to get it closer to center or will the uncreased viewing angle just negate any gain increase anyway? 2. How do you get a projector in line with a screen and the viewer without getting the viewers head in the way? Thanks
Edited by SolRebel - 10/19/13 at 11:26pm
post #517 of 2959
Quote:
Originally Posted by mumbleypeg View Post

It sounds to me like you should have sent the second one back. While I was annoyed at having to return them I was blown away by the performance of the third unit.

I did send it back. I just didn't try a third unit.
Maybe I should have?
Anyways, now I'm really considering a 5030ube.
post #518 of 2959
Hello i am looking for a projector for my 110 inch screen. I have seen the sony Hw50es yesterday and compared it to the benq W1500. The reality creation of the sony is in my opionion great. Does the epson has this kind of feature? And how will the epson Tw9200 compare to the sony hw50es? i can get both for around the 2500 euro`s
post #519 of 2959
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnS View Post

I found a CRT monitor at my in-laws and decided to do a real input lag test of the 5030. My settings were Fast image mode, Iris off, Color mode: living room, Super Res and FI both off.

I used a Canon XTI with the shutter set at 1/320, F2.8, ISO 1600.

My results were a very consistent 30ms lag.

5030-2.JPG 146k .JPG file 5030-3.JPG 144k .JPG file 5030-4.JPG 143k .JPG file 5030-5.JPG 140k .JPG file 5030-6.JPG 147k .JPG file



Additional images attached.

John

John - Thanks for doing this, I know a lot of people have been waiting. Does your image quality degrade to a noticeable state as well? There were early reports to once fast image mode was on the image would take a huge hit.

If this unit can produce 30ms times without degradation in image quality, this might dethrone the HW30/50 for gaming biggrin.gif
post #520 of 2959
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmalto View Post

John - Thanks for doing this, I know a lot of people have been waiting. Does your image quality degrade to a noticeable state as well? There were early reports to once fast image mode was on the image would take a huge hit.

If this unit can produce 30ms times without degradation in image quality, this might dethrone the HW30/50 for gaming biggrin.gif

The difference between Fine and Fast for gaming on an Xbox 360 is almost inpercivable to me. I can see the difference between the two modes in higher quality video like Blu-Ray, but for gaming on an xbox, I really struggle to see a significant difference.

John
post #521 of 2959
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnS View Post

The difference between Fine and Fast for gaming on an Xbox 360 is almost inpercivable to me. I can see the difference between the two modes in higher quality video like Blu-Ray, but for gaming on an xbox, I really struggle to see a significant difference.

John

I guess my eyes are more sensitive to the change in picture when switching from Fine to Fast. Again, the best way I can describe it would say that it almost looks like the resolution takes a hit. Picture no longer looks clear and sharp. Kind of like going from a Blu-ray to a DVD. That was the first thing I checked when I got my second unit. I was hoping maybe that feature wasn't working right on mine smile.gif

For people who play online FPS, I'm sure they won't care as the better response time will be appreciated. For a more casual gamer like myself who plays The Last of Us and GTA V, I would rather go with the better image quality.
post #522 of 2959
I can't replicate those times using the same exact settings. My HTPC setup is the same system I used to measure 30 MS on the HW50.

The lag times goes up big time going from fast to fine, but in fine I can't find much better than 50-60 MS. I'll keep trying to see if I'm missing something.

Are you running full 1920x1080 on both monitors?
post #523 of 2959
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

I can't replicate those times using the same exact settings. My HTPC setup is the same system I used to measure 30 MS on the HW50.

The lag times goes up big time going from fast to fine, but in fine I can't find much better than 50-60 MS. I'll keep trying to see if I'm missing something.

Are you running full 1920x1080 on both monitors?

The CRT I was using doesn't support 1920x1080. I'll have to hook it back up and double-check the resolution.

John
post #524 of 2959
I just got a 6020 b sock for $2499
Now I am wondering if u should return it and get a 5030
For about the same price
What should I do?
Is the 5030 much better than the 6020
What options of features will I gain or give up?
post #525 of 2959
it depends on how much you like 3D. The major difference is the FI in 3D mode which works very well.

otherwise, they are going to be very close in 2D PQ.
post #526 of 2959
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnS View Post

[quote name="zombie10k" url="/t/1490301/official-epson-eh-tw-9200-5030ub-owners-thread/510#post_23856993"]I can't replicate those times using the same exact settings. My HTPC setup is the same system I used to measure 30 MS on the HW50. The lag times goes up big time going from fast to fine, but in fine I can't find much better than 50-60 MS. I'll keep trying to see if I'm missing something.Are you running full 1920x1080 on both monitors?[/quote]The CRT I was using doesn't support 1920x1080. I'll have to hook it back up and double-check the resolution. John

Zombie,

Anything over 40ms and you should be able to tell if the lag is indeed more. How does your htpc feel with mouse movements? I could visually see the lag on my old 5010 by just moving the cursor around the desktop.
post #527 of 2959
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolRebel View Post

Thanks! Couple questions about the need to have the projector vertically centered with the HP screen. 1. If the proj and screen are lined up vertically, does the viewer need to be also? Basically can I raise my screen up a bit to get it closer to center or will the uncreased viewing angle just negate any gain increase anyway? 2. How do you get a projector in line with a screen and the viewer without getting the viewers head in the way? Thanks

See the imaginary line from the center of the projector's lens to the center of the screen? The closer you get your eyes to that line, the higher the gain of an HP screen. Obviously, you can't put your head in the path of the light. A retro-reflective screen like the HP bounces most of the light back to where it came from. It "collects" the light instead of scattering it more evenly like "neutral" screens. That's how it achieves its ~2.8 gain for a person sitting in the "best" seat. That's the same reason the gain goes down as you move away from the sweet spot. More of the light going to the sweet spot means less light goes to the eyes of people sitting off to the sides. Neutral gain screens reflect it pretty much evenly to all viewers. Screens can't create light. They just reflect it differently. If you ceiling mount and sit a few feet below the projector's beam, the gain will be minimal for an HP. If the projector is high enough, the gain drops below 1.0, at which point another screen choice probably makes more sense.

An angular reflective screen is appropriate for people who ceiling mount. My Stewart Firehawk (which was angular reflective) worked best when the projector was ceiling mounted, since it achieved its 1.3 gain for people a few feet below the projection lens. When I got a small HP sample from DaLite, I put it in front of the Firehawk screen. From my normal seat, with the projector on a high shelf, the Firehawk was brighter. As I stood up and brought my eyes closer to the projection lens, the Firehawk dimmed and the HP got brighter. I also put up a sheet of printer paper. As I moved from the normal seating position up toward the projection lens, the piece of paper stayed the same (since it reflected light randomly and maintained an even brightness no matter the position). The Firehawk got dimmer. The HP got brighter. At one point the Firehawk and the HP were the same brightness (roughly the same as the piece of paper), as their unique properties brought the gain to about 1 for each.

When astronauts landed on the moon, they left retro-reflective mirrors at several spots. A laser projected onto the normal lunar surface disperses light like a neutral gain screen. It's so far away that virtually none of it returns for measurement. When that same laser hits one of the retro-reflective mirrors, enough light returns to be measured accurately. That has helped scientists conduct experiments ever since those early and sadly abandoned days of lunar exploration.

When a lamp on my projector dims enough that eco mode isn't bright enough, I switch to high lamp. Once I feel it's necessary to do that, the lamps typically haven't lasted too much longer and need to be replaced.
post #528 of 2959
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnS View Post

I found a CRT monitor at my in-laws and decided to do a real input lag test of the 5030. My settings were Fast image mode, Iris off, Color mode: living room, Super Res and FI both off.

I used a Canon XTI with the shutter set at 1/320, F2.8, ISO 1600.

My results were a very consistent 30ms lag.

5030-2.JPG 146k .JPG file 5030-3.JPG 144k .JPG file 5030-4.JPG 143k .JPG file 5030-5.JPG 140k .JPG file 5030-6.JPG 147k .JPG file



Additional images attached.

John

Thank you for the results. Something, though, seems fishy. I really, REALLY doubt the 5030 is capable of 30ms. It's just never been part of Epson's repertoire to produce those kinds of numbers.

I'd love to be surprised, though, since it would be another feather in Epson's cap.
post #529 of 2959
Im seeing 100-110 with fine mode and around 60-70 in fast. We need a 3rd set of eyes using a crt setup
post #530 of 2959
Too bad this device doesn't work for projectors. It's a simple lag measurement instrument for flat panels.
post #531 of 2959
Just curious but did both of you pass the video through a receiver like an Onkyo or Denon? Curious if that is playing a factor.
post #532 of 2959
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

Projector Central is now reviewing and will be reporting its findings soon with respect to the 6030 and 5030:

"The Epson ProCinema 6030, ProCinema 4030, and Home Cinema 5030 have just arrived and are now on the test benches. We've got them set up side by side for comparative testing. And there's a lot of evaluation to do. The 4030 and 5030 are priced at the same levels but offer two scenarios in value propositions. And the 6030 vs. the 5030 offer a completely different set of value propositions. Quite an interesting study--who should be buying each of these models and why? We will have fun sorting this out, as these are the best home theater projectors yet from Epson. We will get the reviews done asap."

Look so forward to this review!
post #533 of 2959
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmalto View Post

Just curious but did both of you pass the video through a receiver like an Onkyo or Denon? Curious if that is playing a factor.

This was straight from the HTPC (Nvidia GT430) to the CRT and Projector. We definitely need more samples since our measurements are coming out different.
post #534 of 2959
Just a question:
Can the 5030ub be upgraded to wireless HDMI after the fact?
I was thinking that if it's upgradeable, I could do it in the future when and if it's needed...
Thanks!
post #535 of 2959
Quote:
Originally Posted by whokilledkaji View Post

Just a question:
Can the 5030ub be upgraded to wireless HDMI after the fact?
I was thinking that if it's upgradeable, I could do it in the future when and if it's needed...
Thanks!

If the 5030 is like all the other models before it, it is not possible to add wireless HDMI to it unless you go with a third-party solution which is honestly hit or miss from previous experiences.
post #536 of 2959
Hello there i have still the epson tw9000(wich is great)

Will it be an upgrade in 2d if i buy the epson tw9200?

Or are there better options?(maybe the sharp or the new sony 55es?)

,i sit very close at the screen so there is some SDE visible with my epson tw9000..

Also 3d is very importent for me..

Best regards
post #537 of 2959
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmalto View Post

If the 5030 is like all the other models before it, it is not possible to add wireless HDMI to it unless you go with a third-party solution which is honestly hit or miss from previous experiences.

Does anyone know if wireless HDMI affects lag times? And if so, by how much? Probably still unknown for the current version but the 5020 should give a pretty good indication.
post #538 of 2959
Quote:
Originally Posted by odedia View Post

Does anyone know if wireless HDMI affects lag times? And if so, by how much? Probably still unknown for the current version but the 5020 should give a pretty good indication.

Most projectors with wireless HDMI have increased lag times in the 1.5-2x range over wired. I am not sure how the 5020 faired and would agree it would be a good gauge for the 5030.
post #539 of 2959
In some review I read - to my surprise - that the wireless in the 5020 did not increase lag. I will try to find the review tomorrow. I don't see why it would increase the lag by 50 or 100% but I would certainly expect some milliseconds.

EDIT:
Here you go:
Quote:
"What is really interesting is that I tested the input lag with both a physical HDMI connection and with wireless HDMI receiver included with the 5020e. To my surprise, the wireless HDMI worked near flawlessly. It took me a bit to actually get the projector to recognize the wireless HDMI receiver, but after it was “found”, I couldn’t tell the different between the two connections qualitatively at all. To make sure, I ran the input lag tests again and there were no differences in lag numbers."
http://www.projectorreviews.com/game-projector-blog/review-epson-5020e-projector.html

EDIT 2: This was not the review I meant. It looks like he was even measuring it wrong. But I definately read the same thing in a real review. Will look for it tomorrow (unless someonme else is faster).
Edited by KUV1977 - 10/21/13 at 4:51pm
post #540 of 2959
Quote:
Originally Posted by odedia View Post

I am siting 4 meters (13 feet)away from the projection wall.

I am deliberating between a 120 inch and a 133 inch screen. Does anyone has similar setup and can share his experiences? I like a big picture but I worry 133 inch might become too much for me to handle and would actually become uncomfortable viewing. For 2.35:1 content I think 133" will be ideal but for 16:9 content it might be an overkill.

At the end of 2003, I bought my Panny AE700U, and projected it onto a blank wall. For weeks, we did not measure - we adjusted the size and height. Only when we were happy, did we measure - we sat 11 feet back from a 133" (11 foot) screen, so 1.0x. The "smoothscreen" effect of the Panasonic projectors undoubtedly helped.

Please see my theater pics in my sig, as well as: http://goglen.com/post/theater/index.html
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