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New Sony Projector Offers HDMI 2.0 and True 4K, Lower Price

post #1 of 71
Thread Starter 
The last few weeks have seen a slew of new UHD products from Sony, but none were truly 4K devices. Home-theater fanatics looking for a genuine 4K projector designed specifically for home use will soon have more than one option. Sony is following up its groundbreaking VPL-VW1000ES projector with a new model—the VPL-VW500ES—that promises to lower the cost of entry for real 4K projection in the home.


Sony VPL-VW500ES 4K Projector

The new Sony projector just made an appearance at the IFA (Internationale Funkausstellung) show in Berlin. Sony's UK site already has a web page dedicated to the new model. The chances are good it will make an appearance at CEDIA; if it does, Scott Wilkinson and I will definitely check it out.
Quote:
"While there’s no confirmation, several outlets, based on European listings, are quoting a price of about $10,000. That is in no way an inexpensive projector, but it’s groundbreaking for a 4K (4096 x 2160 resolution) model.

Of course, the VPL-VW500ES uses Sony’s SXRD 3-chip LCoS technology and produces a contrast ratio of 200,000:1 and 1,700 ANSI lumens of brightness. It does 2D-to-3D conversion as well as upscales 1080p to 4K." - source: cepro.com

The new unit's specifications are a bit lower than the $25,000 flagship VPL-VW1000ES, but the new model is expected to carry an MSRP less than half the price of the flagship. The VPL-VW500ES offers a dynamic contrast ratio of 200,000:1, and a rated brightness of 1700 ANSI lumens, compared to 1,000,000:1 and 2000 ANSI lumens on the flagship model. And the new, more affordable projector will also feature HDMI 2.0. I suspect many buyers interested in 4K projection will gladly give up that little bit of extra brightness and contrast in order to pocket the savings.

With a pixel count of 4096x2160, Sony's new projector is a true 4K device capable of playing movies—as presented in theaters—without the need to crop or scale the content. Sony just launched its 4K movie download service called Video Unlimited 4K, which already offers 70 movie titles and the hit TV show Breaking Bad. If the price is right and 4K downloads work as advertised, this new projector could find a place in more than one high-end home theater.

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post #2 of 71
I think I'm in love. Might this be the beast that I replace the RS56 with? Time (and CEDIA) shall tell.
post #3 of 71
Wow right I think I'm in love too. If its bright enough and not too much $$$ this may be top runner for my new PJ.
post #4 of 71
Obtainable 4k just arrived. Awesome.

(still not obtainable to me hehe)
post #5 of 71
Awesome!!

I've been waiting for this, a true "affordable" 4k PJ to replace my 2008 Sony VW60.
I was targeting 2015....so with this @ $10k now, I'm guessing in 2015 will be in the $7k-ish range.
My 2008 set-up btw still works, but I could use a few more lumens .......
IMG_9289.JPG
post #6 of 71
wow.
post #7 of 71
If AVS offers a nice pre-order deal then this maybe my next projector.
post #8 of 71
One thing I wonder about with these 3-chip projectors and 4K resolution is how well the convergence will be. Will each tiny pixel have the correct pixel from each color? While I am very excited about this projector (not that I plan to buy it), I would be much more excited about a 1-chip DLP 4K projector. I love my Planar PD8150 DLP. It is very sharp, with great color, and overall performance. I am thinking it could potentially outperform a 3-chip 4K projector due to the potential convergence issue.
post #9 of 71
It says electronic panel alignment, adjustments can be made in as little as 0.1 pixels. How does that work?

Nice to see zoom memory listed in the specs.

Anything on the other new Sony projector? I thought there going to be 2, hoping for a budget version (this one) and then something better or a refresh of the vw1000, like a vw1100.
post #10 of 71
The big joke of this projector is Sony's claim that it can do auto calibration biggrin.gifrolleyes.gif
post #11 of 71
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

The big joke of this projector is Sony's claim that it can do auto calibration biggrin.gifrolleyes.gif

Auto calibration is the wave of the future, it's actually a bit baffling that it's taken this long to implement. However with sensors becoming better (and cheaper) all the time, it is inevitable that "pro calibration" will eventually go the way of the buggy whip.
post #12 of 71
Extreme Ignorance Alert:

What exactly are they claiming by "auto calibration?"

Is there some button you can press at some point which will make the projector automatically re-calibrate itself (to purportedly near ISF standards)?
Or...is any other equipment needed in order for the projector to perform this "self calibration??

Thanks.
post #13 of 71
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

Extreme Ignorance Alert:

What exactly are they claiming by "auto calibration?"

Is there some button you can press at some point which will make the projector automatically re-calibrate itself (to purportedly near ISF standards)?
Or...is any other equipment needed in order for the projector to perform this "self calibration??

Thanks.

Sony is talking about auto color calibration, with the option to manually tweak. I'll look into it if this projector shows up at CEDIA (which seems ultra-likely).
Edited by imagic - 9/14/13 at 12:12pm
post #14 of 71
The "auto calibration" sensor is inside the lens. It does NOT take lighting condition, type of screen, etc into consideration. It will only compensate the colour before it goes out from the projector instead of the projected colour and brightness accuracy. It also does NOT take gamma into account...hence it is being a big joke.
post #15 of 71
If it is direct and not reflected, i.e. ignores the effect of the screen, then it is 100% a farce. Some of the other factors can be argued, but the screen is no less involved in the final color mix than, say, a lens filter.

Sony makes nice gear, but their marketing has gone from embellishment to out-and-out lying. They act like they don't care what they are saying.
Edited by cjvnyc - 9/14/13 at 1:05pm
post #16 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjvnyc View Post

If it is direct and not reflected, i.e. ignores the effect of the screen, then it is 100% a farce. Some of the other factors can be argued, but the screen is no less involved in the final color mix than, say, a lens filter.

Sony makes nice gear, but their marketing has gone from embellishment to out-and-out lying. They act like they don't care what they are saying.

Even if the screen you are using is a particularly neutral screen (e.g. a Stewart ST-130) and even if done in a "bat-cave" environment?
post #17 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

Even if the screen you are using is a particularly neutral screen (e.g. a Stewart ST-130) and even if done in a "bat-cave" environment?

The point is, the light reflected off the screen is a different color than the light that hits the screen, some screens less- sure- but the idea is always to calibrate off what the eye sees. It's not even iterative- if you calibrate off the reflection the projector would "undo" it given the chance. Anyway, this is your guys place in here, way out of my budget.
post #18 of 71
Thread Starter 
I had no idea fancy screens were so prone to screwing with the color balance of a projected image! eek.gif I still commend Sony. Whatever a given screen does to the gamma and color balance, that "warping" is going to be a constant. Manual tweaking post-calibration should always consists of the same "fix," again for any given screen.

The main point is that if the projector can get itself to a neutral, color accurate state—before the screen itself screws up that color (lols)—then that's half the battle. Actually that's 90% of the battle. smile.gif

Slightly off topic, but I joined AVS eight years ago because I was building my first DIY screen!
Edited by imagic - 9/14/13 at 2:37pm
post #19 of 71
Screen colour and gain makes quite a difference in final calibration. How grey is grey? How "neutral" is neutral? The colour of the screen affects gamma and colour appearance. Using one set of calibration then projected to (say) Black Diamond, grey screen, matte white, superwhite results in visibly different projected image. Screen also "ages". Vinyl white screens WILL yellow with time which then changes the projected image colour.

Having matte-black ceiling vs regulat white vs beige ceiling, when the projector is mounted very near to the ceiling will cause difference in projected results.

Unfortunately, having auto calibration is not 90% of the battle, it is only the first step of the battle.

Besides, if the calibrator / consumer still have to tweak to get the proper gamma, proper projected colour temperature, overall brogthness etc...that means the projector is NOT doing calibration per industry standard. Then what's the point between having "auto calibration"? It is nothing more than "auto backlight control" and "auto color" on some gimmicky TVs (including Pioneer Kuro's Optimum Mode which includes "Auto White Balance"

What Sony should call it is "Auto Colour Compensator". That is the user should set the calibration RGBCMY points and the projector automatically compensates the RGBCMY points as the bulb and panel ages. Even then, as the bulb ages and panel ages, the gamma calibration will also change and those are NOT compoensated by the circuitry.
post #20 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post

....

Slightly off topic, but I joined AVS eight years ago because I was building my first DIY screen!

I think I first came here at the same time and for the same reason. Behr Silver Screen at Home Depot?
post #21 of 71
All Sony SXRD products deteriorate over time in terms of PQ which cannot be completely corrected via calibration.
post #22 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post

Auto calibration is the wave of the future, it's actually a bit baffling that it's taken this long to implement. However with sensors becoming better (and cheaper) all the time, it is inevitable that "pro calibration" will eventually go the way of the buggy whip.

Never will happen. There will never be a truly accurate auto calibration for a number of reasons - and videophiles are not going to compromise on that. They will pay the pro to come out.
post #23 of 71
How many people do you think actually pay for calibration? it's for sure around 1% or 2%.... if that. The argument is completely moot. I've got a very good friend that does ISF calibrations and he says it's likely even lower than that.
post #24 of 71
I don't know about the percentage, but I get between 20 to 30 per month and the number actually in the increase compared from (say) 5 years ago.
post #25 of 71
PS: I actually welcome auto calibration, but don't call it calibration when it is not.
post #26 of 71
I think some day auto calibration will be a legitimate feature. Maybe not too far from now. I think an aftermarket sensor or one from the same manufacturer as the projector along with the right ingeniously written program and it would work. Isnt there something like this in development from Calman or the like right now?
post #27 of 71
There is one called VideoEQ, it's an amazing product but it still takes hours to do a proper full calibration and cost around $1500 IIRC when I bought it almost 2 years ago. It is BETTER than pro calibration but buying one video EQ per display just costs too much.
post #28 of 71
Why couldn't auto-calibration handle gamma? It seems like the main thing remaining would be to compensate for a linear tint introduced by the screen - or let the auto-calibration built into your vision (which includes a linear tint feature) take care of that.

What other factors are covered by a professional calibration?
post #29 of 71
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

Never will happen. There will never be a truly accurate auto calibration for a number of reasons - and videophiles are not going to compromise on that. They will pay the pro to come out.

I can't think of a single reason it isn't going to happen. I suppose there will be folks who reject the auto calibration, but from a technical standpoint it is just measurements and adjustments—basically pure science. Therefore, it can be automated. The primary barrier is cost and performance.

A long, long time ago photo printers also required professional calibration. Eventually, auto-calibration took over and found it's way into inexpensive desktop printers. Today, auto calibration for photographic color printers is taken for granted. The same thing will happen with projection, thanks to the constantly improving quality of photo sensors.
post #30 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcohen View Post

Why couldn't auto-calibration handle gamma? It seems like the main thing remaining would be to compensate for a linear tint introduced by the screen - or let the auto-calibration built into your vision (which includes a linear tint feature) take care of that.

What other factors are covered by a professional calibration?

Both gamma and colour temp itself depends on the screen colour. There are various greys, whites, blacks and there are various screen gains too. They all make visible differences in colour reproduction and gamma reproduction.
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