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Projector that can display a 400" image?

post #1 of 26
Thread Starter 
From what I have been able (or unable) to find, I don't know of any 1080p (or higher) consumer grade projectors that can display a 400 inch picture with ease ( or at all). Could anyone help in this matter? Hopefully I wouldn't need to get into the uber expensive cinema-grade projectors for this size.
post #2 of 26
You are going to need at least 6000 lumens. Look at the Christie projector at visual apex
post #3 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post

You are going to need at least 6000 lumens. Look at the Christie projector at visual apex

Closer to 8000 lumens if he wants to achieve at least 16 foot lamberts. 3 Chip DLP is your best bet to achieve this.
post #4 of 26
And what consumer grade (homecinema) projector can give you 8000 lm? And he really need more as the lamp dims, he needs to look at the proffesional grade projectors and can choose from 3 chip DLP of Sony SXRD. And maby this would be one of the best options.

http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/mkt-digitalcinema/mkt-digitalcinemaprojectionsystems/product-SRX-R515P/
Edited by Andreas21 - 9/15/13 at 4:38am
post #5 of 26
Those are VERY expensive, and I doubt he cares about 4k, sounds like he is trying to do this on a budget (Though a 400" screen on a budget is tough, it is possible). We don't have nearly enough information to even be answering this post realistically, as it depends what the expectations are on quality and the budget. That said, here is the most complete answer I can give...

None of the super high lumens projectors are really home theater projectors anyways. Double stacking is the cheapie way,

Double Stacking on the Super Cheap

Sub $5500
The Epson PowerLite Pro G5450WUNL is about $2500 and rated at 4000 lumens, or 8000 double stacked lumens (7000 real world), and combined would produce 6000 lumens in a decent looking mode when double stacking them. The total cost would be $5000 after buying 2 units for stacking. Since this is an LCD, it has no RBE. For a few more thousand you could double stack the 5000 lumens version instead.
http://www.projectorcentral.com/epson_powerlite_pro_g5450wunl_projector_review.htm?page=Advantages

Sub $4000
---Cheaper---
The cheapest possible OK option I can think of is (2) Optoma eh501's give a rating of 10,000 combined lumens for about $3,500 total, and I think they have enough have lens shift for double stacking. The major issue with this will be RBE. Also you will not get anywhere near 10,000 lumens calibrated, but I assume a combined about 7000+ lumens or so in a very watchable close enough (though not perfect) color mode.

Sub $2500
Instead, you could also get (2) Benq sh910's for about $2500 total which would provide 8000 rated lumens double stacked (7600 measured), it has an ok mode to give you around 6500-7000 lumens with presumably good enough color. This would probably need to be a bit of a keystone hack job for the the double stacking though. There is a review on Projector Central for this PJ. The sh910 might (and I stress might) have less RBE than the Optoma eh501, but it doesn't have lens shift like the two above options, which is why you'd need keystone to double stack.

Sub $1500 - http://www.projectorreviews.com/viewsonic/pjd7820hd/performance.php
Even cheaper would be (2) Viewsonic PJD7820HD, they only cost $700 each and they put out 3500+ measured lumens, giving you 7000 total stacked lumens @ 6527K gray-scale, though the sat and gain of Red will be a bit under-saturated looking in this mode. This would require keystone, but it's possible. The total cost would be $1,400 (7000 real world lumens for $1,400 haha). Again too much RBE MIGHT be the main issue for a large audience. Even though the Viewsonic is only rated at 3000 lumens, Art @ PR measured it at 3700 lumens in brightest mode at closest throw (3518 mid zoom) and Evan measured it over 3300 lumens, so I think it is safe to say this PJ can pump out 3500 lumens on a new lamp with no problem. As much money as you save on this option, you could buy 5-10 spare lamps so that this projector is probably the brightest cheap option economically.

Single Projector Solutions

For a single projector 1080p solution, the EIKI LC-HDT700 (LCD) is rated at 7000 lumens and costs $11,000 street.
The Epson PowerLite Pro Z8455WUNL (1920x1200) is also rated at 7000 lumens for about $10,000 street.
The Epson PowerLite Pro G6750WUNL (also 1920x1200) is rated at 6000 lumens for about $5500 street,.

There are some other lower model Epsons in the same line that provide 5000-5200 rated lumens for under $5000 street, but you are getting too borderline on the lumens at this point, unless you double stacked.

There are several Barcos, Christis, and other EIKI's near the same price, but not sure if you can get that many lumens at 1080p+ for that same price range.

For a 720p projector (actually 1280x800), Panasonic makes some DLP's with 8500 lumens for around $7,500, though I doubt the contrast will be any good.
Edited by coderguy - 9/15/13 at 3:30am
post #6 of 26
This should do it ! biggrin.gif
post #7 of 26
Its best to stack two projectors, as Coderguy states
post #8 of 26
Thread Starter 
Dear bank account, I'm so sorry for getting into this hobby :P.

Yes, more details should have been provided. The actual screen will be (hopefully) 360 inches wide. I just wanted to make sure that I wasn't going to "max out" the view on a projector and wanted a little extra leeway. I'm thinking the budget for a projector (or 2?) will be around $15000 or a little more if there is anything that would warrant it.

Ah, should also note that I'd like to be able to project anamorphic as well.
Edited by Jindrak - 9/15/13 at 11:39am
post #9 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

Those are VERY expensive, and I doubt he cares about 4k, sounds like he is trying to do this on a budget (Though a 400" screen on a budget is tough, it is possible). We don't have nearly enough information to even be answering this post realistically, as it depends what the expectations are on quality and the budget. That said, here is the most complete answer I can give...

None of the super high lumens projectors are really home theater projectors anyways. Double stacking is the cheapie way,

Double Stacking on the Super Cheap

Sub $5500
The Epson PowerLite Pro G5450WUNL is about $2500 and rated at 4000 lumens, or 8000 double stacked lumens (7000 real world), and combined would produce 6000 lumens in a decent looking mode when double stacking them. The total cost would be $5000 after buying 2 units for stacking. Since this is an LCD, it has no RBE. For a few more thousand you could double stack the 5000 lumens version instead.
http://www.projectorcentral.com/epson_powerlite_pro_g5450wunl_projector_review.htm?page=Advantages

Sub $4000
---Cheaper---
The cheapest possible OK option I can think of is (2) Optoma eh501's give a rating of 10,000 combined lumens for about $3,500 total, and I think they have enough have lens shift for double stacking. The major issue with this will be RBE. Also you will not get anywhere near 10,000 lumens calibrated, but I assume a combined about 7000+ lumens or so in a very watchable close enough (though not perfect) color mode.

Sub $2500
Instead, you could also get (2) Benq sh910's for about $2500 total which would provide 8000 rated lumens double stacked (7600 measured), it has an ok mode to give you around 6500-7000 lumens with presumably good enough color. This would probably need to be a bit of a keystone hack job for the the double stacking though. There is a review on Projector Central for this PJ. The sh910 might (and I stress might) have less RBE than the Optoma eh501, but it doesn't have lens shift like the two above options, which is why you'd need keystone to double stack.

Sub $1500 - http://www.projectorreviews.com/viewsonic/pjd7820hd/performance.php
Even cheaper would be (2) Viewsonic PJD7820HD, they only cost $700 each and they put out 3500+ measured lumens, giving you 7000 total stacked lumens @ 6527K gray-scale, though the sat and gain of Red will be a bit under-saturated looking in this mode. This would require keystone, but it's possible. The total cost would be $1,400 (7000 real world lumens for $1,400 haha). Again too much RBE MIGHT be the main issue for a large audience. Even though the Viewsonic is only rated at 3000 lumens, Art @ PR measured it at 3700 lumens in brightest mode at closest throw (3518 mid zoom) and Evan measured it over 3300 lumens, so I think it is safe to say this PJ can pump out 3500 lumens on a new lamp with no problem. As much money as you save on this option, you could buy 5-10 spare lamps so that this projector is probably the brightest cheap option economically.

Single Projector Solutions

For a single projector 1080p solution, the EIKI LC-HDT700 (LCD) is rated at 7000 lumens and costs $11,000 street.
The Epson PowerLite Pro Z8455WUNL (1920x1200) is also rated at 7000 lumens for about $10,000 street.
The Epson PowerLite Pro G6750WUNL (also 1920x1200) is rated at 6000 lumens for about $5500 street,.

There are some other lower model Epsons in the same line that provide 5000-5200 rated lumens for under $5000 street, but you are getting too borderline on the lumens at this point, unless you double stacked.

There are several Barcos, Christis, and other EIKI's near the same price, but not sure if you can get that many lumens at 1080p+ for that same price range.

For a 720p projector (actually 1280x800), Panasonic makes some DLP's with 8500 lumens for around $7,500, though I doubt the contrast will be any good.



cool.gifcool.gif That was impressive. And that you took the time. Props!
post #10 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jindrak View Post

Dear bank account, I'm so sorry for getting into this hobby :P.

Yes, more details should have been provided. The actual screen will be (hopefully) 360 inches wide. I just wanted to make sure that I wasn't going to "max out" the view on a projector and wanted a little extra leeway. I'm thinking the budget for a projector (or 2?) will be around $15000 or a little more if there is anything that would warrant it.

Ah, should also note that I'd like to be able to project anamorphic as well.

Where is this being used, an auditorium?

I don't think you'd have to spend $15,000 unless you want to go for 11,000-13,000 rated lumens as a single projector solution.
(2) Panasonic PT-EZ570UL would give you 10,000 rated lumens on an LCD projector for $7,000.

Use this search feature:
http://www.projectorcentral.com/projectors.cfm?g=1&hide=0&st=1&mfg=&p=&w=&r=16&br=5000-7000&ll=&ltg=&t=&db=&dt=&c=&ar=&dvi=&wr=&pjl=&pjw=&pjh=&td=&i=d&is=&sort=%24&sz=15

(2) Epson g6550's would set you back right at $10,000 and give you 10,400 rated lumens (that should be plenty I think).

Also, anamorphic doesn't matter, unless you want to view 16:9 content on it as well, but if that is true then you can add an $1800 lumagen to handle digital aspect resizing for 16:9 on a CIH screen. If you don't care that much about some viewers seeing the rainbow effect (RBE), then no reason to spend the big bucks, just setup (2) of the Optoma eh501's, there is your 10,000 lumens right there for under $4000.
post #11 of 26
Thread Starter 
No, not an auditorium. Private home theater. Thanks for the suggestions! Also, can the lumagen be installed in both of those projectors mentioned?
post #12 of 26
I don't wish to offend you, but I have to say this...

What!!!
This is a little silly, you state you are going to be doing a 400"+ Screen in your private home theater, yet you worry about budget.
Doing a 400" screen in a private home theater is so overkill, unless you are a Hollywood Director or something...

I bet even out of Hollywood Directors, you probably won't find many with that size of a screen in their home (maybe Steven Spielberg).

Big screens are neat, but there are diminishing returns on size, just sit closer and go for a 150" to 250" screen or something. The picture is going to have a lot more contrast if you buy a TRUE home theater projector, and you'll never be able to use a TRUE home theater projector on a 400" screen. Then when all the new 4k projectors come out, you won't be able to buy any of them unless you want to spend over $50,000 (probably more than that), because none of them will be bright enough for your ridiculous screen size.

I would much rather own a B-Stock Sony vw1000es on a 150" to 200" screen, then some business projector setup on a 400" screen, just my opinion...

If you are dead set on the giant screen, then please do not go for the business LCD projectors (I was assuming you were playing to a large audience with that screen size).

Your best bet is to first buy (1) Optoma eh501, and see if it causes you the rainbow effect, if the RBE isn't bad, buy another and you're done for under $4000. I see no reason to spend $10,000+ on an image that will likely look worse. DLP's with lens shift (like the eh501) double stack well with not much adverse affect to sharpness (it is hard though, you really have to spend a lot of time getting the alignment EXACTLY perfect).

The Lumagen should work with any projector, but I cannot promise that the WUXGA business projectors that are 1920x1200 might not cause it to freak out, but as long as you always pass a 1080p signal should be ok.
Edited by coderguy - 9/15/13 at 12:32pm
post #13 of 26
Also, spending an extra $10,000 to get another 2000 lumens in brightness cushion is also silly.

Why?
Because lamps lose brightness over time, so you can spend under $5000 on the projector and just replace the lamps more often (every 500 hours and still spend less money). This is because $5000 in lamps is literally 15+ new lamps, and a 10,000 lumen setup on a new lamp is brighter than a 12,000 lumen setup on a lamp with 1000 hours on it. If you buy a single projector solution for over $10,000, the lamps are also going to be outrageous due to the wattages, usually over $500 each lamp, some of these lamps cost up to $1000 or more (especially when getting into dual lamp setups, which many of these 10,000+ Lumen projectors are using dual lamps).

These super BRIGHT and expensive projectors do not look better than the cheaper counterparts (they often look worse), that is until you get over $15,000 where the contrast starts going back up slightly, like on the Sim2's or the super high-end ones well over $50,000 designed for commercial cinemas. So I wouldn't assume that by spending $12,000 to get another 2000 lumens that projector is going to look any better than the double stacking setup of the eh501, it's probably worse.
Edited by coderguy - 9/15/13 at 1:05pm
post #14 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jindrak View Post

Dear bank account, I'm so sorry for getting into this hobby :P.

Yes, more details should have been provided. The actual screen will be (hopefully) 360 inches wide. I just wanted to make sure that I wasn't going to "max out" the view on a projector and wanted a little extra leeway. I'm thinking the budget for a projector (or 2?) will be around $15000 or a little more if there is anything that would warrant it.

Ah, should also note that I'd like to be able to project anamorphic as well.

So this is going in a room that's at least 30 feet by 60 feet?
post #15 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

So this is going in a room that's at least 30 feet by 60 feet?

That will have to be a very big place. With the long throw distance, the projector is going to have to be at least 10,000 lumens. I would love to have a place like that. I would make 3 rooms out of that place. One for 2D movies, one for 3D, and one game room.
post #16 of 26
Projectors with lens shift will help you get a better alignment.

How much of a concern is quality?
Lights on or off?

I've never tried to stack, but isn't HDCP a problem for that, depending on the source?
post #17 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcohen View Post

Projectors with lens shift will help you get a better alignment.

To be clear, it will make it easier (maybe possible) to get better alignment.
post #18 of 26
Uh, at $15k, wouldn't it be easier to build a stage, and hire starving actors to do a live performance?
post #19 of 26
For 400" I would expect to be over US$ 100K easily.

Unless you want the same image quality as those puppies:
post #20 of 26
No way, double stacking is key, and the image quality will be fine if you do it correctly. That said, a single projector solution will look better on a smaller screen.
post #21 of 26
I’m curious. Has anyone stacked a DLP projector here? I have long wondered if this remedies RBE to a certain extent, since I have a hard time believing that the two color wheels could sync with each other perfectly. But perhaps they do and there is no gain; just thought I would ask.
post #22 of 26
The increased brightness will make it more noticeable. Colors are still being displayed at the same speed sequentially.
post #23 of 26
seegs, yes but if the color wheels are not exactly in sync, and I don't think they would be, the colors will cancel each other out and reduce the rbe (red is not displayed at the same time in both pj). Or am I thinking wrong here?
post #24 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drexler View Post

seegs, yes but if the color wheels are not exactly in sync, and I don't think they would be, the colors will cancel each other out and reduce the rbe (red is not displayed at the same time in both pj). Or am I thinking wrong here?

You're trying to say that because there are more colors being introduced this will lessen RBE? I would think that the doubling of brightness would effect RBE way more than anything else.
post #25 of 26
I think what he's saying is that one projector might be displaying green while the other Red. In theory, if you could three single chip DLPs in sync, you could have one showing red, while the others are showing green and blue and essentially have a 3 chip machine as red green and blue would always be shown on the screen. With two machines you'd be 2/3 of the way there.

That said, I'm guessing the wheels actually will be in near perfect sync. Remember both machines are synced/locked to the same input signal, and so they each show the same frame at the same time, meaning they'll (I assume) go through the same RGBRGBdG sequence each frame. So they probably won't quite match up but they'll probably both be flashing the same color at the same time, so I'm guessing it probably wouldn't help.

I suppose it comes down to if a given DLP machine always starts a frame with a particular color, or if there's some amount of randomness in the startup to where when it syncs to a signal it picks a color, resulting in the starting color being essentially random. I'm not sure which way it works.
post #26 of 26
I'm not sure why out of sync wheels would be a problem. It would be an interesting experiment.

3D probably wouldn't work, unless you did it the fancy way, with split signals, circular polarized filters, passive circular polarized glasses, and a 3D (polarize preserving) screen, like Real 3D theaters. That would work great, but it wouldn't be ideal for 2D.
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