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post #31 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by dougri View Post

@coderguy...

admittedly, my understanding of the H-K effect is at the Wikipedia level (i.e. not much), but isn't the perceived brightness increase from the H-K effect derived from the increased saturation being perceived as increased luminance? Seems to me that a color space that takes advantage of that effect would come closer to getting that perceived contrast you desire (i.e., not measured, but in a perceived, 'end result' kind of way). no?

Slightly brighter in very colorful scenes, but the point I think is that all the projectors should be able to hit the appropriate saturation values in the given specification that they follow for the gamut, anything less is a projector that is outside the optimal range. So no, I don't see the difference of having an LCOS projector with an oversaturated gamut vs. an LED, but perhaps there is some theory beyond what I know that breaks this link, but I personally doubt it.

The mix of frequencies in the brightest perceived colors like Yellow and White (technically not a color but whatever) are still going to be one of the main ways we perceive brightness.

Tom Huffman and people like that in the calibration forums could answer the question more precisely in a calibration sense, most of my color theory is from graphics programming and rendering I did in the 1990's. Heck, when I first started calibrating projectors in 2007, the theory I knew in graphics was only partially applicable to this anyhow, though it helped. Back in the old days we had some pretty archaic graphics editing, so we had to get into the down and dirty more often.

Also, back to the intra-spatial contrast, when you see reflections added in renders, sometimes they are trying to mimick this effect, but it is hard for cameras to pick it up correctly because the light usually messes up the shot, so they tend to try to film without that many reflections going on (though it's possible to do, they often get muted reflections in movies compared to real life).
post #32 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

Except "wisely" often means you have to spend 2-3X for a brighter pj.
At least for Dalite screens, electric is far cheaper than fixed, and not that much more than manually retractable.
I don't know many people who consider a vast blank space more aesthetic than whatever else one may choose to put there, and it's easy to hide the screen with a valance.
Your own quote says "...our test sample shows a loss of about 10% of its initial light output. ".

That's hardly visible; compare to a lamp which can lose half is brightness in a few hundred hours.

there are exceptions to everything. I still say the two projector system gives you OPTIONS. you don't HAVE to use a roll up screen if you don't want to. but you still can.

I do like that led projector appear to be more consistent, after any initial losses. if you read the quote(or maybe the rest of the article? and I missed it) it states that they were not able to test beyond 120hrs, so it's entirely possible the projector would have lost another 10% in the next 120hrs. who knows how long it would take to 'settle'. when they have reasonably priced units that produce 1000+lumens after any initial drops, that will be sweet. truth is the review I quoted was getting pretty close to 1000lumens at the brightest modes and looked to be an ideal secondary projector to me.
post #33 of 112
Helmholtz-Kohlrausch Effect :
"Stated plainly, the effect describes how brightness increases by saturation. This means that perceived brightness is a function of not only luminance but also chromaticity. More saturated colors are perceived as brighter than pastel versions at the same measured brightness levels".
I have read plenty of comparisons on brightness, contrast and sharpness between UHP/xenon lamp projectors and LED based projectors but i haven't ever seen any comparison of the color spectrum displayed by these different illumination sources on the same screen concurrently; I trust my eyes very much when it comes to colors and there is definitely something unique about the color spectrum of LED based projectors and until the naysayers have proven otherwise i'll stick to that belief, i.e. H-K Effect.cool.gif
post #34 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by MCaugusto View Post

Helmholtz-Kohlrausch Effect :
"Stated plainly, the effect describes how brightness increases by saturation. This means that perceived brightness is a function of not only luminance but also chromaticity. More saturated colors are perceived as brighter than pastel versions at the same measured brightness levels".
I have read plenty of comparisons on brightness, contrast and sharpness between UHP/xenon lamp projectors and LED based projectors but i haven't ever seen any comparison of the color spectrum displayed by these different illumination sources on the same screen concurrently; I trust my eyes very much when it comes to colors and there is definitely something unique about the color spectrum of LED based projectors and until the naysayers have proven otherwise i'll stick to that belief, i.e. H-K Effect.cool.gif

I would not think about changing the color of my LED projector. I just completely velveted my room with a 130in screen. Just looks beautiful. I haven't seen a image look so good before. I got to do a calibration later on this week for the gamma and grey scale
post #35 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by MCaugusto View Post

Helmholtz-Kohlrausch Effect :
I trust my eyes very much when it comes to colors and there is definitely something unique about the color spectrum of LED based projectors and until the naysayers have proven otherwise i'll stick to that belief, i.e. H-K Effect.cool.gif

I think the point is still being missed, you can also get oversaturated gamuts on other projectors, not just LED.

And calibration techniques do prove otherwise, now if you want to say that LED projectors can go beyond the saturation that most LCOS can, that may be true, but that extra saturation is way off spec.
post #36 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

I think the point is still being missed, you can also get oversaturated gamuts on other projectors, not just LED.

And calibration techniques do prove otherwise, now if you want to say that LED projectors can go beyond the saturation that most LCOS can, that may be true, but that extra saturation is way off spec.

Yes, the point is still being missed : after calibration and at the same brightness levels LED colors are perceived as brighter than standard bulbs and if you don't agree with the precept perhaps you should delve deeper into the explanation of the H-K Effect ?
Have you ever seen projected images from LED projectors ? Have you compared them side-by-side after calibration with UHP/xenon lamp projectors ?
Like i posted : until anyone does so properly and finds it to be otherwise, i will stick with the H-K Effect explanation; You might not agree with it, that is your prerogative, but remember that there are papers written by experts on the subject.
post #37 of 112
There is no question the HK effect is correct, the point is two calibrated devices have the same saturation, so even though the HK effect is true, it does not apply with two devices calibrated the same and therefore does not apply in the improper way companies are pitching it. I never said the HK effect wasn't right, it is, but it has nothing to do with this.

Your basically saying a meter cannot read color saturation, whatever...
Can't argue with someone that doesn't understand what saturation is.

Saturation is a simple concept, it is basically the difference between white/gray (100% to 0%) and the color blended into white (the most saturated color is the most purest form of itself), the more saturated it is, the more intense the color and the closer it is to a true pure spectral color as far as how our eyes perceive it. As a matter of fact, the range of saturation is defined at a constant brightness anyhow.

Also saturation does not change the lightness of the color, that is color GAIN, how saturated a color looks to our eyes, is a combination of GAIN and SATURATION and as far as how our eyes perceive, even the colors surrounding another color affect that. Though on some CMS's changing saturation inadvertently affects gain and vice versa. Though only adding saturation does increase the perception of brightness to some degree, gain and saturation together increase it much more.

There isn't a magic type of saturation not read by a meter, and we don't go by our eyes anyhow to judge saturation, so that is a moot point and completely irrelevant. You cannot judge saturation by the eyes between two different devices, the way our eyes see saturation is a combination of everything, we can't magically pick out saturation in an image while watching stuff. This is why we use meters and not our eyes.

I suggest you go into the calibration forums and ask the experts that write calibration software, they have far more expertise in it. Furthermore, there is a lot of information that people misunderstand and that companies pick up as marketing, few of the numbers or things pitched in marketing are true. Epson claims LCD has more saturated colors, so did Panasonic, heck I remember seeing a video on it. I give up, go ask someone else about it. They all lie about contrast ratios and often exaggerate lumens claims.
Edited by coderguy - 9/17/13 at 8:24pm
post #38 of 112
@coderguy...
sure does help when I go back and read the thread in its entirety wink.gif I thought you were debating the merits of expanded color space and CONTENT produced with the expanded color space. I agree. if calibrated in the exact same way with the same color space, and the projector is capable of producing all colors within that color space, the H-K effect should not come into play. One question though... do all current projector technologies have the capability to support the Bt.2020 color space? Thanks!
post #39 of 112
I don't want to hijack this thread any longer on this subject of H-K Effect and so enough said from my part; You stick to your belief that after calibration the color spectrum for both UHP/xenon lamp and LED projectors appear the same to the human eyes and that otherwise it is a case of color over-saturation, while we owners/users and people who actually seen LED projectors in action and noticed something unique about its color spectrum after calibration will disagree, okay ?
BTW, no need to sound so dismissive, i can play the same game :
"Can't argue with someone who apparently have never seen what we are talking about, LED projectors at work, whatever"...
post #40 of 112
The eyes cannot see small changes in brightness or foot lamberts very precisely at all, it takes quite a significant change to be really noticeable.
I have seen LED projectors.

I feel I got too complicated and long-winded and lost people here. That is not at all what I said, I never meant to SAY that it is impossible for an LED projector to appear more saturated, what I meant was if this is TRUE, the actual reason it appears that way is not due to saturation if both devices are calibrated the same.

People confuse what saturation really is with what they see. Color Saturation is a very specific and exactly defined parameter of the gamut for each of the colors. You can make something look more saturated to the eyes by increasing the gain alone, and leaving saturation where it is, furthermore even changes in gamma can make things look more saturated.

If some LED projectors are appearing more saturated, then it is more than likely due to the intrascene contrast ramp and the gain differential of the contrast between two near objects. Or in simpler terms, higher ANSI contrast, though ANSI contrast is not by itself the only determiner of intrascene contrast, even in bright scenes (but I don't want to re-open that can of worms). Though I still don't believe it appears brighter at the same gamut, because our eyes cannot really make out exact fL anyhow, this is another reason we always use a meter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dougri View Post

@coderguy...
sure does help when I go back and read the thread in its entirety wink.gif I thought you were debating the merits of expanded color space and CONTENT produced with the expanded color space. I agree. if calibrated in the exact same way with the same color space, and the projector is capable of producing all colors within that color space, the H-K effect should not come into play. One question though... do all current projector technologies have the capability to support the Bt.2020 color space? Thanks!

Oh I still think BT 2020 is over-hyped, though it will improve some things. Keep in mind though that almost all technology is over-hyped, that's their jobs. Sometimes I feel people in AVS cling too hard to certain things though.
Edited by coderguy - 9/17/13 at 8:24pm
post #41 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by MCaugusto View Post

I don't want to hijack this thread any longer on this subject of H-K Effect and so enough said from my part; You stick to your belief that after calibration the color spectrum for both UHP/xenon lamp and LED projectors appear the same to the human eyes and that otherwise it is a case of color over-saturation, while we owners/users and people who actually seen LED projectors in action and noticed something unique about its color spectrum after calibration will disagree, okay ?
BTW, no need to sound so dismissive, i can play the same game :
"Can't argue with someone who apparently have never seen what we are talking about, LED projectors at work, whatever"...

Its definitely something you will need to witness. I'm coming from 3 JVC models and they were calibrated. The high end LED projectors just produce an excellent image. There are some idiots who think their Sony 1000ES is night and day better, even tho some well know reviewers prefer LED projectors over the 1000ES.
post #42 of 112
And there are some people who blindly belive in reviewers and think their LED projector is as good or better than the VW1000. Did you read it mark, blee0120 think we are idiots.smile.gif
Edited by Andreas21 - 9/18/13 at 2:15am
post #43 of 112
The LED projectors that blee is referring to are a slightly modified Delta design that was used with the Planar PD8150. Instead of a lamp housing at the beginning of the light path, it uses a Phatlight LED module and some extra processing to utilize the LEDs. If anyone has seen the PD8150 or Runco LS-5 you can get a VERY good understanding at what Blee's unit looks like with some very minor differences in color characteristics. Personally I love the image this Delta design puts out, but I can definitely see how something like the 1000ES could look better. To me, the 1000ES has almost every characteristic of a great DLP projector AND every characteristic of a great LCOS projector. I really want one frown.gif
post #44 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

The LED projectors that blee is referring to are a slightly modified Delta design that was used with the Planar PD8150. Instead of a lamp housing at the beginning of the light path, it uses a Phatlight LED module and some extra processing to utilize the LEDs. If anyone has seen the PD8150 or Runco LS-5 you can get a VERY good understanding at what Blee's unit looks like with some very minor differences in color characteristics. Personally I love the image this Delta design puts out, but I can definitely see how something like the 1000ES could look better. To me, the 1000ES has almost every characteristic of a great DLP projector AND every characteristic of a great LCOS projector. I really want one frown.gif

I'm heading here in a couple weeks to see what they have, they might have the vw1000es on display.

http://www.star-power.com/hometheater/starpower-showroom-dallas-2013/
post #45 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

The LED projectors that blee is referring to are a slightly modified Delta design that was used with the Planar PD8150. Instead of a lamp housing at the beginning of the light path, it uses a Phatlight LED module and some extra processing to utilize the LEDs. If anyone has seen the PD8150 or Runco LS-5 you can get a VERY good understanding at what Blee's unit looks like with some very minor differences in color characteristics. Personally I love the image this Delta design puts out, but I can definitely see how something like the 1000ES could look better. To me, the 1000ES has almost every characteristic of a great DLP projector AND every characteristic of a great LCOS projector. I really want one frown.gif

I really agree with you that the VW1000 has many of the caracteristics of a great DLP (not the 3D quality) and every caracteristic of a great LCOS, and this is why I think is probarbly is the best homecinema projector by far in 2D. About the LED/DLP projectors like the M.150 I tested side by side the VW1000 I also tested it side by side with the Lumis 3DS and found the Lumis 3DS to be a much better projector than the M.150. And of all these 3 high end projectors I found the VW1000 to be best in 2D by some margin, and I was actually very surpriced to see that as I was 100% shure the Lumis 3DS would beat the VW1000 in every way. And I was prepared to start saving to be able to buy the Lumis 3DS as this is more than double the price to the Sony VW1000 here in Norway, but I did not have to.smile.gif
post #46 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andreas21 View Post

And there are some people who blindly belive in reviewers and think their LED projector is as good or better than the VW1000. Did you read it mark, blee0120 think we are idiots.smile.gif

For one, Mark has never said it was night and day better. Its obvious you have no clue of what night and day difference mean. You are just the master of word twisting, I told you before that I have seen the Sony 1000ES. My first impression of it compared to my RS55 was the Sony was better at 3D, motion, sports, HDTV, sharpness, it was brighter but it wasn't a huge difference with 2D blu rays. I only watched blu rays on my JVC, so I didn't feel like an upgrade was needed. I never once said that any projector that I have seen or owned was better than the 1000ES, I challenge you to find one post that I stated that. What I did said that Andrew Robinson from hometheaterreveiw.com and Steve Withers from avforums.com stated they preferred the image of the SIM2 M.150 over the Sony with 1080p content, not my words theirs. It is amazing how you keep saying that I think my projector is better than the 1000ES without me even saying it. I show Mark total respect, I ditched my HP screen in favor of a unity screen, so why would I call him an idiot? For you to think I should take your word as the Sony is night and day better than everything compared to two other reviewers who say otherwise is ridiculous, its obvious you have no clue of what you are talking about. My DP M-Vision is a really good projector, the 1000ES is definitely not night and day better
post #47 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post

For one, Mark has never said it was night and day better. Its obvious you have no clue of what night and day difference mean. You are just the master of word twisting, I told you before that I have seen the Sony 1000ES. My first impression of it compared to my RS55 was the Sony was better at 3D, motion, sports, HDTV, sharpness, it was brighter but it wasn't a huge difference with 2D blu rays. I only watched blu rays on my JVC, so I didn't feel like an upgrade was needed. I never once said that any projector that I have seen or owned was better than the 1000ES, I challenge you to find one post that I stated that. What I did said that Andrew Robinson from hometheaterreveiw.com and Steve Withers from avforums.com stated they preferred the image of the SIM2 M.150 over the Sony with 1080p content, not my words theirs. It is amazing how you keep saying that I think my projector is better than the 1000ES without me even saying it. I show Mark total respect, I ditched my HP screen in favor of a unity screen, so why would I call him an idiot? For you to think I should take your word as the Sony is night and day better than everything compared to two other reviewers who say otherwise is ridiculous, its obvious you have no clue of what you are talking about. My DP M-Vision is a really good projector, the 1000ES is definitely not night and day better

Mark said it was not even in the same league and to med it is almost the same as night and day, but you have no clue what you are saying and is defenently an forum troll. When these reviewers say something like that I can not take them seriously and to me AVforums in the UK is very pro JVC and I dont take the reviews there seriously. And I have never read that Steve Withers prefered the M.150 over the VW1000, but I have read that Andrew Robinson wrote it and to me that is totally wrong. And I understand tou love your DP M-Vision and really need to justify your money spent, but it is defenetly not in the same league as the VW1000 and I defenetly know what I am talking about!

When I say night and day difference it is to state a point that the difference is big (just like not even in the same legue) not night and day litterarly. But I thougt you understood that??rolleyes.gif
post #48 of 112
Steve Withers from AVForums
Quote:
Obviously this is from memory rather than side-by-side comparison but in answer to your questions Mike:

After calibration, and with the VW1000 in Low lamp mode, I would say the brightness of the two is very similar.

I would also say that both were excellent in 3D with no crosstalk.

The VW1000 had a brighter 3D image with a new bulb in high lamp mode but it would be interesting to see how the two projectors compared after a few hundred hours. In my experience with other projectors, the 3D performance can suffer as the bulb ages.

I think even with the new fans in the M.150, the VW1000 is definitely quieter.

In terms of black levels and dark scene detail I think that the M.150 has the edge.

In terms of overall 2D performance I would again say that the M.150 has the edge.

In 3D I'm inclined to say that with a new bulb the VW1000 might have the edge but as you point out, the shorter blanking and more consistent LED light source could give the M.150 the advantage over the longer term. That's what I love about an LED projector, once you've set it up and calibrated it, the image remains consistent for the whole of its (considerable) life. Whereas with UHP bulbs, you are always dealing with their gradual (and in some cases not-so-gradual) reduction in brightness and inevitably having to replace them.

Both are superb projectors and there's is very little between them, which doesn't make your decision any easier Mike. I'd really like to test them side-by-side but given the size of the VW1000 and the weight of the M.150, I'm not sure my projector stand could handle it!
post #49 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andreas21 View Post

Mark said it was not even in the same league and to med it is almost the same as night and day, but you have no clue what you are saying and is defenently an forum troll. When these reviewers say something like that I can not take them seriously and to me AVforums in the UK is very pro JVC and I dont take the reviews there seriously. And I have never read that Steve Withers prefered the M.150 over the VW1000, but I have read that Andrew Robinson wrote it and to me that is totally wrong. And I understand tou love your DP M-Vision and really need to justify your money spent, but it is defenetly not in the same league as the VW1000 and I defenetly know what I am talking about!

When I say night and day difference it is to state a point that the difference is big (just like not even in the same legue) not night and day litterarly. But I thougt you understood that??rolleyes.gif

So. I'm trolling on a LED thread? Learn to spell before trying to insult someone
post #50 of 112
He never saw them side by side and he is wrong, I am so sorry that you need to justify you money spent on a projector that is not even in the same league. And when I read this I can not take him serious: In terms of black levels and dark scene detail I think that the M.150 has the edge. The blacklevels of the M.150 is not even close to the VW1000 and the level of detail is about the same.


I am so impressed eith you and many reviewers who can remember a picture in detail from many months or even years and can say that one has the edge over the other, the only way to see this is side by side comparison. And why many reveiwer holds their money on Sim2 is a mystery to me, but I thing many is blinded by the pricetag.
Edited by Andreas21 - 9/18/13 at 4:08am
post #51 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post

So. I'm trolling on a LED thread? Learn to spell before trying to insult someone

I am sorry if my spelling is not correct, you should try coming to a Norwegian forum and spell perfectly. I am Norwegian and English is not my main language!rolleyes.gif

And if someone is insulting it is you insulting me by calling me an idiot and writing that I need to learn how to spell.
Edited by Andreas21 - 9/18/13 at 4:08am
post #52 of 112
For trustedreviews.com
Quote:
The only other projectors in town that might potentially cause the M.150 any grief are the JVC X90 and the Sony VW1000ES. The JVC, it must be said, delivers deeper black levels than the M.150 can. But the M.150 more than compensates for this with the extra crispness and colour subtlety of its 2D pictures; by producing more shadow detail; and by rendering 3D with much less crosstalk than the JVC. The £17k Sony represents a tougher challenge in that there’s no doubt that genuine 4k material does take home cinema projection to a whole new level. However, there’s precious little 4k material around at the moment, and while the Sony upscales HD to 4k quite nicely, the M.150’s HD detail levels are only marginally smaller, yet its pictures look more consistently natural and less processed. The Sim2 also delivers a richer black level response, especially when it comes to reproducing shadow details in dark areas.
Read more at http://www.trustedreviews.com/sim2-m-150_Projector_review_more-pic-quality-and-conclusion_Page-3#dFG9xwl2M29rHDQU.99
post #53 of 112
From hometheaterreview.com
Quote:
So where does this leave the M.150? Among LED-based projectors, I consider it to be atop the heap, but there is the issue of 4K one must now consider. Sony's latest flagship projector, the VPL-VW1000ES, is one such 4K projector. At a hair under $25,000 retail, it's cheaper than the M.150. Both have similar light output, meaning both can be used in large, purpose-built home theaters, but when and if a 4K standard is introduced to the home, the Sony will be ready, whereas the M.150 will not. Does that make the Sony better, or at least a better value? Value maybe, but better overall, absolutely not, for while the Sony may possess 4K powers, it's currently little more than a 1080p projector that upscales to 4K. In doing so, the Sony introduces noticeable grain to the image (I said grain, not pixels), which is nowhere near as laser-sharp as the M.150's natural HD image. Furthermore, there is no way to calibrate the Sony without having to resort to an outboard processor such as a DVDO Duo, which raises the cost of ownership to basically equal that of the M.150. However, should a 4K standard hit the consumer market, the added investment in a product such as the DVDO would be rendered moot, for its calibration features would be relegated to the HD realm only, meaning you'd have to buy another outboard processor or hope Sony updates the projector's firmware in a timely manner. So, with all those factors in mind, it is my opinion that the M.150 is the better all-round projector. When looking only at image quality, it is the hands-down winner
post #54 of 112
You make me laugh!smile.gif

Mark Haflich who is also a VW1000 owner and have tested side by side agreed with me that the Sony is in antoher league and also stated that reveiwers not always can be trusted. The only thing he disagreed with me was that the colors might be better on the LED, he agreed the blacklevel, sharpness, pop +++ is better on the Sony. I don´t remember where he wrote it so I can not quote it.

And when a reveiwer say that the blacklevel and sharpness is better on the M.150 they have no clue. I have learnt not to trust reveiwer and therefor I always test alot of projectors myself every year to get the best inside my budget, and the only projector I have had more than one year is the VW1000. I am really looking forward to the day I can change it with another. The last 8 years I have owned at least 20 projectors and it has beed DLP, LCD,D-ILA and SXRD projectors. And I have tested at least 50 to see what I like best and as long as I have the oportunity to test I will continye doing it and it will alwaus be side by side.
post #55 of 112
Everybody is wrong, I get it now. I'm sorry but the 1000ES isn't that much better than everything. It is probably better, but not as big as if want me to believe. You have to be the biggest Sony FANBOY ever. You say reviewers can not be trusted but they were very accurate with JVC and the LED Clones.
post #56 of 112
You shuld try testing side by side! Buy a VW1000 and test it side by side with you beloved LED and see for yourself I am shure you will be surpriced just as I was.

And not everybody is not wrong, mark haflich and I am right about the VW1000. But reviewers are right most of the time, but not when they say the M.150 is better than the VW1000.

As I say to you I am really looking forward to the time I can change my VW1000 with something better and if it is a JVC, Sim2, Epson, Sony or whatever I don´t care and that is not the caracteristics of a Fanboy.
Edited by Andreas21 - 9/18/13 at 5:21am
post #57 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by MCaugusto View Post

I don't want to hijack this thread any longer on this subject of H-K Effect and so enough said from my part; You stick to your belief that after calibration the color spectrum for both UHP/xenon lamp and LED projectors appear the same to the human eyes and that otherwise it is a case of color over-saturation, while we owners/users and people who actually seen LED projectors in action and noticed something unique about its color spectrum after calibration will disagree, okay ?
BTW, no need to sound so dismissive, i can play the same game :
"Can't argue with someone who apparently have never seen what we are talking about, LED projectors at work, whatever"...

Please don't stop. Trying to read this thread should replace the need anyone has for sleeping pills .....snzze snzze
post #58 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andreas21 View Post

You shuld try testing side by side! Buy a VW1000 and test it side by side with you beloved LED and see for yourself I am shure you will be surpriced just as I was.

And not everybody is not wrong, mark haflich and I am right about the VW1000. But reviewers are right most of the time, but not when they say the M.150 is better than the VW1000.

As I say to you I am really looking forward to the time I can change my VW1000 with something better and if it is a JVC, Sim2, Epson, Sony or whatever I don´t care and that is not the caracteristics of a Fanboy.

Why should I test the 1000ES side by side? I don't think mine's is better than the 1000ES, some say the M.150 is. I don't have that projector, just proving a point that you don't know what you are talking about. How can you say the 1000ES is in another league than the M.150? All these reviews say the same thing, when you are a fanboy, its hard to understand not everyone is going to buy your favorite brand
Edited by blee0120 - 9/18/13 at 5:44am
post #59 of 112
If you test it maby you would see that mark haflich and Andreas21 is right (because I have a clue).smile.gif

As I am not a Fanboy and I have tested the M.150 side by side with the VW1000 a couple of months ago and the VW1000 was the clear winner and to me that proves these reviewers dont write what they really mean or they don´t have a clue. And I really think they don´t write what they really mean due to magazine or internetsite politics.cool.gif

So let us end this as you clearly don´t like me and vice versa.
post #60 of 112
Cut it out. Its not a question of liking or not liking someone. Its more a question of inanity with who's inane being related to one's point of view. Will this post make me more friends? I hope, I hope, I hope so. smile.gif
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