Originally Posted by slprp1
Perhaps the earlier generation Pioneers (and others) are designed differently and are unaffected by the Time Warner "flagging".
No, they're all the same OS. My DVR-450 is the same model year as your 650, and I'm not having any recording problems with TWC. I also have a 460, which is one year newer than your 650, and I have a 540 and 531 which are one and two years older than your 650. Plus a couple of Magnavoxes (until I sold them last month) that were far newer than any Pioneer. None had any issues recording to HDD/making DVDs from TWC in the Brooklyn or Queens neighborhoods I'm familiar with (including premium channels). So it appears this "copy once" flag issue is localized to just certain NYC neighborhoods, or there is something specific about your personal connection that is giving you issues.
I have been having this copy protection issue (on a Pioneer 650) since approx. two years ago but it was expanded earlier this year to most (if not all) cable channels. I also know three people (in Queens) that are having the exact same issue with TWC "flagging" (on Pioneer and Toshiba units).
I live on the Brooklyn/Queens border, and have never encountered this problem. My friends & relatives in Forest Hills, Middle Village, Astoria, and Bayside (Queens) don't encounter it, neither do people I know in Cobble Hill, East Flatbush, Midwood, Bay Ridge or Greenpoint (Brooklyn).
It is not uncommon to hear of record-restrict issues with TWC, but almost always the entire town or city is affected. It is extremely odd to see it localized in just a few neighborhoods, as it seems to be for you and your friends. Either some idiot at the TWC head end did something stupid that accidentally activated this protection in your neighborhoods' feed alone, or the specific versions of decoder box involved have a bug or have had their firmware corrupted by an update. There isn't much you can do in either case, as all the boxes for your area will be the same, and a complaint to customer service that you can't use your DVD recorder will be met with stony silence or laughter.
You haven't yet confirmed whether you use a decoder box or have the cable plugged directly into your Pioneer. There can be an enormous difference: like all other cablecos, TWC began messing with the bare-wire signals a couple of years ago. Those who have the wire plugged directly into their recorder discovered channels would disappear one by one or be flagged with this "copy-once" protection. Then recently, TWC migrated to "100% digital" service, even for the basic tier, which requires either a full-sized decoder box or one of their new small stop-gap junk decoder pods. A few channels might still be tunable directly by your recorder tuner, but this could change at any moment.
If you don't currently have a full-size decoder box, it may be that the box itself filters out the "copy-once" signal for those of us who are not having such problems. You would need to either sign up for a box, or bring your Pioneer 650 over to someone's house that does have one, and see if you can record as usual (with no flag) from the box. If so, thats your answer: just about all cable systems are moving to a box requirement of some kind, if you refuse to have one you will encounter various inconveniences like missing or unrecordable channels. It stinks, but the govt is allowing it.
If you DO have a full-sized box, connected to the line inputs of your Pioneer 650, the copy-once signal is not being suppressed by the box and your only option is to buy and permanently connect a video filter between decoder and Pioneer (as discussed in earlier posts).
I am aware of the fact that I can use a filter to prevent this problem initially. I was curious as to whether or not there was an option to copy from the HDD (digitally) once the recordings were made.It seems as if the consensus is no (unfortunately). Someone made a comment about removing the copy protection (from the RAM disc) on a PC.
No such decryption method using a PC has turned up that I'm aware of. If ChurchAVGuy, jjeff and Kelson have not heard of one either, you can be fairly sure it doesn't exist or is flying way under our radar. I think the reason we haven't heard about it is it wouldn't be useful to that many people: basically, once someone discovers their cable or satellite service is using this copy-once flag, they just go buy a filter and cut the problem off ahead of recording. Once the flag is embedded in the HDD recordings, its already too late to digitally circumvent in any useful manner. The recorder will insist on creating a goofball VR non-standard DVD or RAM disc that isn't compatible with standard playback hardware, and nobody's really interested in trying to decrypt those (you'd still end up with some goofball VRO format, which you'd then have to convert somehow to standard files).
I believe that if I were to do a real time, analog copy on the Pioneer, it would work. I've been avoiding this, as the video quality will suffer. However, this may be my only option. I haven't tested this yet.
I don't think it would work, as the Pioneer should still refuse unless a CPRM-compliant VR (i.e., unplayable on anything but your 650) blank disc is loaded. But its worth a shot: why don't you give it a try and let us know? I'd test it myself, but I don't have any copy-once recordings to experiment with. Be sure to try it using both possible methods: via the copy list screen (select a lower recording speed for the dub to force it into analog real time mode), and via the one-touch copy system (load a blank dvd, play the HDD recording, then hit the one-touch-copy button).
Originally Posted by jjeff
Did you try recording to the HDD instead of DVD? I'm pretty I can do that on my Panasonics but only to the HDD, it doesn't like to do separate things with the HDD and DVD drive.
Yes, I tried feeding my Pioneer 450 line output to its line input, and recording a title playing on the HDD back to the HDD as a new title. The result is a black screen recording. So one would definitely not be able to patch a video filter between a Pioneers inputs and outputs to re-record something to itself (DVD or HDD). You'd need a second recorder or PC to capture the analog output of the Pioneer HDD thru a filter.
Originally Posted by profhat
LOL it worked very well with my 2160A.
I guess he will need to spend more $$$.
Nice to discover SOMETHING useful about the Magnavox, other than its amazingly rugged burner.
My 2160A and 513 had tuners that were worthless for cable and confused by the goofy virtual channel assignments used by NYC ota broadcasters. So I found new homes for them not long ago.
slprp1, if you don't have another dvd recorder or PC to dub your Pioneer videos to thru a filter, you might consider buying a Magnavox MDR533 from WalMart. It is a DVD/HDD recorder similar to your Pio 650, but costs only $229 new. You could set up a playlist on your Pioneer of all the backed up recordings on its HDD, and dub them unattended to the HDD of the Magnavox. Then, at your leisure, divide up the recordings on the Magnavox and make your normal DVDs using high speed copy. The Magnavox will let you put in custom chapter stops and thumbnails, but note the thumbnails can only be selected during the finalization stage (not beforehand on the HDD as the Pioneers can do). When you finish clearing off your Pioneer, you can resell the Magnavox on eBay without much of a loss (they're quite a cult item). Or if you finish up within 30 days, you could probably just return it to WalMart for a refund. Or keep it as a spare recorder.Edited by CitiBear - 9/20/13 at 1:14pm