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Valve, "Linux is the future of gaming" - Shots fired? - Page 9

post #241 of 428
Metro Last Night included for free in the Steam Machine Beta test if you one of the 300 Lucky winners!
post #242 of 428
I quote from the anti-console article Arutha-conDoin above.:
Quote:
Here, Valve is really looking to get input from the Steam community about what they want in Steam Machine hardware. "I think it's at odds with how hardware or consumer electronics gets done usually," notes Coomer. But Valve feels that bringing in the beta-testing model so common in software will help them design better hardware: "We don't want to start operating in a way that builds products without customer input or without watching how customers actually interact with our products, " Coomer said. For actual retail models, Valve is partnering with a number of PC manufacturers who will reveal their devices at the Consumer Electronics Show in January, and which should hit shelves in summer 2014, just as Valve expects to be shipping controllers.

I just simply love the trajectory of this project. Valve is clearly focused 100% on games, experiences and OS stability for a games first platform. Sure...it will be loaded with future forward internet hosting capability. And its inevitable Security system bloat that is an absolute necessity. But that pales in comparison to the Morbidly Obese Windows platform for gamers. In fact...I am on my knees begging Valve to resist putting any bloat in the OS like MS Office and Windows Essentials. I say keep that part extremely basic. Just enough to service the SteamOS gaming community and its core of game developers.

The Controller:
Like everyone else, I am just flat out stoked about this controller. I can't wait to get my hands on one of them. But with that said...I hope Valve doesn't make the mistake of trying to build too much into it. Or overly simplifying it (ala Console Controllers). It looks like they have struck the right balance. But I sure hope they engineered a wireless or infra-red capacity into it to link with a Game Pad like Razer Nostromo. and highly specialized joysticks, motion controllers and wheels for extended operational function, racing and aeronautics. That would completely eliminate the need for a Keyboard and mouse going forward. Because you could put a trackball or haptic pad in the KeyPad. I am really excited about building/arranging a new kind of gaming cockpit to accommodate this system. And allow me to dual boot with Windows.

MS better hurry up with their answer to this before its too late. Because its new CEO may off-load the Xbox business just like it was rumored months ago. Even Billionare & MS investor Paul Allen thinks that is what they should do. http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2013/11/04/even-paul-allen-thinks-that-microsoft-should-be-broken-up/ or http://wegotthiscovered.com/gaming/investment-firm-microsoft-cofounder-rid-xbox-division/
I just don't trust the direction MS is heading with Xbox enough to buy a Xbox One right now. I don't even know if they are committed to the business long term. Just look at how abruptly they unloaded GFWL. And left all of its users in
Quote:
Obsoleteville
.Ditto with games for Xbox 360 and XB Original. That whole MS hardware platform could be part of Samsung or someone else 1-2 years from now. Even though I'm sure MS would retain the enterprise software rights/position via Win 8.0-8.12 . Or XBOS that is compatible with Windows. under a protocol we have already discussed.

Things are heating up. And getting more interesting by the day. And more curious.
post #243 of 428
I'm right there with you barrelbelly

I'm already looking to cannibalize my current PC and changing it to a server to build a SteamOS machine to also dual boot. I would really like to see running SteamOS as my entire computer. However I dont think that will happen as, like you said, I dont want it to get filled with bloatware.

I am looking at build a HTPC and was on the fence about building a HTPC for gaming or building a HTPC + a Steam Machine. I think I am leaning toward the later.
post #244 of 428

Hey gang

 

Just joined up and like many of you, excited about the SteamOS platform.  The "next gen" consoles are a snooze fest if you ask me and myself and several friends are already transitioning back to the PC. 

 

The controller looks interesting but I feel like there are many purists out there that won't be willing to give up the mouse/keyboard combo. 

post #245 of 428
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveAldrich View Post

Hey gang

Just joined up and like many of you, excited about the SteamOS platform.  The "next gen" consoles are a snooze fest if you ask me and myself and several friends are already transitioning back to the PC. 

The controller looks interesting but I feel like there are many purists out there that won't be willing to give up the mouse/keyboard combo. 

I'm seriously considering buying one of these:

http://www.laptopdesk.net/gamers-desk.html
post #246 of 428
Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post


I'm seriously considering buying one of these:

http://www.laptopdesk.net/gamers-desk.html

Cool thanks for the link.  That's similar to what my friends I have been using over the past couple of months.  Works pretty well! 

post #247 of 428
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveAldrich View Post
 

Cool thanks for the link.  That's similar to what my friends I have been using over the past couple of months.  Works pretty well! 

 

If you buy one let me know how well it works.  I'm still skeptical, but I need to figure out something between now and march when titanfall comes out.

post #248 of 428
Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post
 

 

If you buy one let me know how well it works.  I'm still skeptical, but I need to figure out something between now and march when titanfall comes out.


I don't think its gonna do anything for me that my current piece of plasterboard doesn't already do haha.  I'll pass it along to my friends though, they may be interested.  

post #249 of 428
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveAldrich View Post


I don't think its gonna do anything for me that my current piece of plasterboard doesn't already do haha.  I'll pass it along to my friends though, they may be interested.  

For me a shelf from Ikea works just fine:

http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/20167961/#/20167961

...but I will buy Nerdytec Couchmaster one day smile.gif



I must say that Nerdytec is a very fitting name...
post #250 of 428
At first I couldn't decide whether to post this in the "Valve/Linux thread", or the "Console or PC Double Down Thread". I opted for the Valve thread because it perfectly represents what I have concluded about PC Video games. Or as they relate to me these days. For me the choice between Consoles and PC is as simple as this. PC Gaming allows Me to decide when Next Gen comes...What it is...and how I want to shape it to my life and needs. It gives me the tools (technology) and allows me to participate in building Next Gen whenever I want. I can bend and stretch the games to the limits of their capacity if I choose. And that will always be a very rewarding experience. And the PC platform is always backward and forward compatible. Console gaming made me into a lazy uninterested gamer. Don't get me wrong here. I really like console gaming. Especially on Xbox 360. There is a definite time when I just want "lazy". And I will eventually get one of the new consoles in a few years to scratch that itch. But in the meantime...I am perfectly happy with Xbox 360, PS3 and WiiU to do that lazy work. And they will remain even better console values for the next 3-5 years IMO. Mostly because of their huge library of excellent 720p games that will get cheaper by the day. The next gen consoles will be better. But not by a big leap based on what I see so far. Their locked architecture will always make them top of class, convenient, current gen platform for the masses.

Which brings me full circle back to the Valve/SteamOS approach. It hits the absolute epicenter of everything I described above for PC Gaming. And if that controller is as good as I think. It will be a godsend for PC gamers. Steam and Oculus Rift will jump PC gaming even farther ahead of consoles. When I look at all of the reasons I prefer PC gaming now. The Valve/Steam approach just hits all of my buttons. I just hope they execute it well and not disappoint us all.

Edit:

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013/11/new-consoles-too-limited-for-oculus-rift-says-co-founder/

This article describes exactly what I'm talking about. SteamOS & Linux are future ready. The consoles are too limited.
Edited by barrelbelly - 11/13/13 at 7:14pm
post #251 of 428
I am 100% agree with you Barrelbelly, just last night I was playing Half Life 2 all over again as I never played the expansions and grabbed HL2 w/ ep. 1 and 2 for something like $8 during the Steam Summer sale. Sure this game is old but can you play that old of a game on consoles?

At church last night I was also tlaking to somone about the new consoles and one of their wives said, "they are both stupid cause you have to buy all new games for them!" and honestly she really cant be more right. I love that with a PC I can always play my old games.

Like you, I am really hopping this controller gets to be as great as I want it to be. THe only thing I can say that is holding back the Steam Machines is getting the publishers to port their games to it....I would hate to move to SteamOS and lose half of my games...and I dont own many.

We shall see, I have no doubt that SteamOS will have great support. I remember when Steam first came out and had alot of issues. Now, however, it is a very different story.
post #252 of 428
@Kimeran:

Ditto...Isn't it interesting how clear truth sounds from the innocent than it does from us pro's? Your friends wife just instinctively knew how really dumb console economics are for her. When you amortize the running costs of your PC over time...it is remarkably less expensive because of its BC and FC (with much better & cheaper upgrades). I bracketed that last piece because of 2 things. One-how many of us upgrade futuristic parts for our PC's at list cost? I bet miniscule. We get them on sale/closeouts/open boxed/refurbs/used. That's because with PC's, Next Gen is always potentially next year or the next 6 months! And 1-3 year closeouts are always light years ahead of consoles performance wise.

Two-there is simply no argument on the "much better" viewpoint. Just take Oculus Rift for example. That is really...really...really Next Generation gaming technology. Its science & DNA is open and instantaneously upgradable/adaptable as technology improves. And it is 5-10 years ahead of the new consoles. Yet it is planned to launch for us PC'ers in 2014 at a cost of $300! Now that is perspective. Not hype!. It's a totally new gaming experience and platform. Less than the cost of a top shelf GPU...CPU...or new console. Heck...Oculus Rift is real next Gen Gaming at a spec'd cost lower than current cost of last gen consoles (XB360, PS3, WiiU). And it is future forward in all domains. It will allow us PC users to carry our PC 3D/VR games & experiences with us on our mobile Android devices...right out of the Box! It will hit the market with a huge library of 3D/VR games (over 300). And Valve is working intimately with Oculus Rift to mate the platform seamlessly with SteamOS...Valve gaming IP...Steam library. That is potentially massive! and enormously exciting.

Most of us won't have to change one piece of our existing hardware to enter this "Brave New World" of Ultra HD...3D...VR gaming bliss. Just the $300 for OR...I estimate about $200 for the SteamOS And peripheral package (Controller/extra drive/etc) and we are good to go. We can upgrade as we go and as technology improves. That is unprecedented value IMO. And frankly the kind that blows the new consoles away. I repeat what I said earlier.

Microsoft better not take a wait & see attitude on this one. They better boost up Windows and Xbox in 2014 to meet this "Horseman of the Apocalypse" right away. And that is just to protect their market of users who game on Steam & other platforms via Windows. If they don't mod Windows/XBL/XBOS to seamlessly embrace Oculus Rift on PC and match the Steam/Linux threat...they will be in "Dual Boot Hell" very soon in the PC gaming world.
Edited by barrelbelly - 11/14/13 at 10:15am
post #253 of 428
Heck, even SteamOS is far advanced compared the X1 and PS4 OS because it's open! Look at what Android did for cell phones.....I imagine you will see something similar with the Steam Machines. Plus since the OS is open, it is possible that we may see XBMC style UI and added abilities to stream music and movies over time. Maybe add better support for bluray playback....who knows, open source really leaves it open to anything.

I do wonder though how things like Origin would work on it...for those who have already gone out and purchased BF4.
post #254 of 428
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimeran View Post


I do wonder though how things like Origin would work on it...for those who have already gone out and purchased BF4.
Sounds like we may get a pretty good chance to find out!
http://www.tweaktown.com/news/33438/dice-says-it-will-support-linux-could-see-battlefield-4-on-steamos/index.html
post #255 of 428
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arutha_conDoin View Post

Sounds like we may get a pretty good chance to find out!
http://www.tweaktown.com/news/33438/dice-says-it-will-support-linux-could-see-battlefield-4-on-steamos/index.html

Sa-WEET
post #256 of 428
Thread Starter 
Had to share this semi-relevant gif:

ESCWFqa.gif
post #257 of 428
I saw that gif, without the text, on neogaf and it had me rolling.
post #258 of 428
Valve reveals Steam Machines
I still like the design of the first one.
post #259 of 428
I have to say... I like it. I did like the prototype one too, but I really like the clean and cold look of the official one.
post #260 of 428
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marafice Eye View Post

I have to say... I like it. I did like the prototype one too, but I really like the clean and cold look of the official one.
I'll be curious to see what Steam Machines are going to cost. If I can get one For $1000 with a GTX 780 in it, then I will be all over one. I think with the USB 3.0 ports and an external Hard Drive storage should not be an issue. Heck even if I got one I may not even put it in the living room if I bought one. It would be nice in my office as a new PC as well.
post #261 of 428
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arutha_conDoin View Post

I'll be curious to see what Steam Machines are going to cost. If I can get one For $1000 with a GTX 780 in it, then I will be all over one. I think with the USB 3.0 ports and an external Hard Drive storage should not be an issue. Heck even if I got one I may not even put it in the living room if I bought one. It would be nice in my office as a new PC as well.

Why not just build your own?
post #262 of 428
Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

Why not just build your own?
if I build my own I'll be over $2k easily since I would got Mid to full tower for a desktop for a PC. Steam machine I would be more closer to stay in budget and I get the feeling they will have a reduced price versus building our own. CES 14 will give us the info for that.
post #263 of 428
I may be a decided minority on this. But IMO the entire focus on the "Living Room" is confusing and wildly irrelevant. For the life of me I fail to see why these big companies are chasing "Alice in Wonderland" down that rabbit hole. And we are definitely talking "Alice" if we're talking living room. In practically 100% of situations I know of...the living room and even family room are domains dominated by the "Alice's" of the world. And her kids. A/V electronics...computers/rooms...hardcore game rigs...A/V dungeons, caves & dark rooms are "Marlboro Country". Dominated 1000% by "The Mighty Thor's" of the home. Frankly I don't even know of these mystical "living room" spaces that all of these companies are so viciously fighting for. Because I rarely use them in my home. Or see men using them in other homes except for forced family & guest time. As I see it...hard core gaming on Game PC's, Xbox's, PS's are primarily solitary male dominated entertainment (young & old)...done in semi privacy. My wife or kids would not want to sit and watch me play a videogame for 2-5 hours at a pop. And hog a shared resource like a HDTV that way.

I think the whole "dominate the living Room" meme is a Rube Goldberg fantasy that has driven gaming wildly off course. I get what Microsoft, Nintendo and Sony are trying to do. And except for Nintendo, It has very little to do with gaming IMO. It is about multimedia dominance. And the primary target is whatever platform allows a company to control the most advertising space. And hence the biggest bulk of corporate advertising dollars. What Sony and Microsoft are doing is trying to create the multimedia alternative/Nexus for the TV Networks and Cable Stations in terms of controlling the bulk of advertising spending. Games are just pawns for them in that strategy. That is why consoles will always be just mediocre alternatives for serious gamers. But they have contributed to the improvement of the PC platform. Most obviously in the area of future forward controllers (tactile & motion) that free users up from the more complex and arcane mechanics of Keyboard/Mouse. So there is significant technology synergy and shared needs between the platforms. But that sharing does not extend that far into actual user space preference IMO. I hope Valve is very careful about chasing an elusive Alice down that rabbit hole. Or they could end up trapped in it. Sorta like "The Mad Hatter".
post #264 of 428
Valve along with the HSA Foundation have officially joined The Linux Foundation today.
post #265 of 428
So why is Linux preferred over Windows, at least from Valve's perspective? Is it simply to avoid putting Windows in Steam Machines?
post #266 of 428
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaverJ View Post

So why is Linux preferred over Windows, at least from Valve's perspective? Is it simply to avoid putting Windows in Steam Machines?

They can mold it exactly to their needs, strip out everything they don't need. Windows is a one size fits all beast with 30 years of legacy dragging it down, but Linux gives them the opportunity for a clean start.

And it's free!
post #267 of 428
I'm curious about the developer's perspective - I would imagine they are still probably going to target Windows, so is a Linux version an easy port, or vice versa?
post #268 of 428
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaverJ View Post

I'm curious about the developer's perspective - I would imagine they are still probably going to target Windows, so is a Linux version an easy port, or vice versa?

Well when you think about it, they're targeting multiple platforms already with the consoles. One more isn't that big of a deal. The most common games on Linux are the indie games, so if small devs can pull it off, the big guys shouldn't have an issue.

I imagine it will be a long transition before Linux becomes more important than windows for gaming...but I think it's inevitable. Windows isn't the defacto PC gaming platform because it's good at it, it's just because it's ubiquitous. It's actually quite terrible at it, we're just so used to it we don't see the warts. The sooner they rip that bandaid off the better.
post #269 of 428
I'm actually a little confused about Valve's plan with Linux OS right now. Will it be backward compatible with Steam Games at least through Windows Vista to Windows 8? Will their VR/Oculus Rift games be functional on both Linux and Windows? I suspect the answer is yes to those 2 big questions, based on Gabe's comments in the past. But I would like to hear more about it.

Know what else would really help kick this off? If Sony licensed the entire PS3 library exclusively to Steam for the Linux OS platform.
post #270 of 428
Quote:
Originally Posted by barrelbelly View Post

I'm actually a little confused about Valve's plan with Linux OS right now. Will it be backward compatible with Steam Games at least through Windows Vista to Windows 8? Will their VR/Oculus Rift games be functional on both Linux and Windows? I suspect the answer is yes to those 2 big questions, based on Gabe's comments in the past. But I would like to hear more about it.

There's no steam machine that can't also run windows....so there's your compatibility layer. Dual booting. Maybe it's possible to use virtualization to embed a running windows install within SteamOS, that would make switching almost transparent. (but probably a driver/memory management nightmare.)

I expect SteamOS will look strikingly similar to steam big picture, and that far more people will be using big picture + windows on steam machines to start. Over time there will be more and more games on SteamOS, and eventually it'll get to the point where you spend more time in Linux than windows.

I bet just like the new consoles there's going to be a ton of missing functionality at start, and everyone will declare it a failure. And just like steam, 5 years later we'll wonder how we lived without it.
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