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Valve, "Linux is the future of gaming" - Shots fired? - Page 4

post #91 of 428
Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

http://timothylottes.blogspot.com/2013/10/where-is-real-steam-machine.html
I dunno who this is for, but it's certainly not for people who want to step up from next gen.

Valve is backing high-end Intel/Nvidia hardware at the moment, so it looks like Xi3 put these out there before the Valve announcement to try and gain some quick market-share with pre-orders. I bet they have probably lost all of those by Monday morning.
post #92 of 428
Steam Machine Specs:

http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/10/04/steam-machine-prototype-specs/
post #93 of 428
Aww, the guy with the 660 has to actually beta test.

The guy with the Titan got a nice prize...
post #94 of 428
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yrd View Post

Aww, the guy with the 660 has to actually beta test.

The guy with the Titan got a nice prize...
I'm sure whoever gets the Titan one will be posting about it. From what I read Steam was saying that they want the participants in the beta to post about it and talk about it. if there is an NDA I do not think it is going to be much.
post #95 of 428
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LexInVA View Post

Valve is backing high-end Intel/Nvidia hardware at the moment, so it looks like Xi3 put these out there before the Valve announcement to try and gain some quick market-share with pre-orders. I bet they have probably lost all of those by Monday morning.

From what I've read thats just the beta program. When they do get out of beta, they'll be looking for all hardware manufacturers to support it.

A Titan with that power supply and form factor sounds interesting. Might need to put it on a coaster less it singe your entertainment center.
post #96 of 428
Quote:
Originally Posted by TyrantII View Post

From what I've read thats just the beta program. When they do get out of beta, they'll be looking for all hardware manufacturers to support it.

A Titan with that power supply and form factor sounds interesting. Might need to put it on a coaster less it singe your entertainment center.

Yeah that's just the 300 boxes for the lucky folks that get to test. The actual release boxes will probably have a lot more combinations, but really, unless you want/need Valve's USFF size, you're probably better off building your own anyway.
post #97 of 428
Thread Starter 
Oh, I agree.

Steamboxes won't be passing on cost efficiency for years until Valve is able to make SteamOS the go to PC gaming OS and/or get major hardware support through marketshare. Instead they'll just be a little more expensive, powerful but smaller form factor PC's for people that don't want to get into the full blown make a PC thing. I'm guessing most will be bought for looks and performance and never modded as entry into gaming PCs. Think gaming PC from alienware for the time being.

Anyways, fell free friend me guys . TyrantII, need a few more and willing to help others out.

Not much of a PC gamer lately, but I am bidding my time untill I get around to building a new rig. Maybe valve can get me back in sooner.
post #98 of 428
No, the Steam Machine I think are definitely targeted at a bit different of a crowd than what the consoles are. I think if you build one though and kept it the same for the same amount of years as you would the console you would break about even with what is spent total on the console.

aka

Steam Machine cost more but get games on sale on Steam Summer Sale for cheap versus game subsidized console with $60 games....

If you are like me....the Steam Machine would probably save you money in the long run.
post #99 of 428
With how cheap the games are in the winter and summer sales the steam machines could be a good deal for those looking to get into PC gaming. Hell I have been happy with my Sager laptop I bought two years ago and still have not had to many games that I can not play on anything less then high settings (witcher 2 is the exception). Back to steam sales though, you could build up a huge gaming list on one sale alone and have a back log of games until the next sale. I think with the games sale you probably would come out a head over the price of a PC then that of console. It seems the price of PC goes down quicker then that of console games
post #100 of 428
Thread Starter 
Looks like only 300,000 have signed up so far with a few weeks to go.

A 1/100,000 chance is probably the best lottery I'll ever play, assuming they pick randomly from the pool.
post #101 of 428
Quote:
Originally Posted by TyrantII View Post

Looks like only 300,000 have signed up so far with a few weeks to go.

A 1/100,000 chance is probably the best lottery I'll ever play, assuming they pick randomly from the pool.

If I'm not mistaken, something like 30-50 beta kits are being given to very specific people, so there's 250-270 that will be given at random.
post #102 of 428
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arutha_conDoin View Post

With how cheap the games are in the winter and summer sales the steam machines could be a good deal for those looking to get into PC gaming. Hell I have been happy with my Sager laptop I bought two years ago and still have not had to many games that I can not play on anything less then high settings (witcher 2 is the exception). Back to steam sales though, you could build up a huge gaming list on one sale alone and have a back log of games until the next sale. I think with the games sale you probably would come out a head over the price of a PC then that of console. It seems the price of PC goes down quicker then that of console games

I have over 200 games I haven't even played. redface.gif Mostly just stuck with Half-Life and whatnot.
post #103 of 428
Just a quick tip for those of us adding people from AVS on steam. on your friends list if you rlght click someone name and select Add Nickname you then can add a nickname to their steam ID. This has been nice since I can now assign AVS forum names to Steam names and merge the two wink.gif
post #104 of 428
Honestly, I'm way more interested in the case design than the actual guts of the thing. They say it's going to be 12x12x3" or so, which means almost certainly it's mini-ITX, using a riser card of sorts to connect the GPU to.

It seems likely it's an SFX PSU in order to fit in that small space... honestly, it sounds very similar to a case I was lusting after for a while before the project got cancelled.

Even more exciting to me is the fact that Valve has said they'll be releasing the CAD files for it... so while I won't be able to do anything with those, I would think there would be plenty who will take advantage of it to make some nice enclosures.
post #105 of 428
Quote:
Originally Posted by TyrantII View Post


A Titan with that power supply and form factor sounds interesting. Might need to put it on a coaster less it singe your entertainment center.

Assuming a high quality PSU, it's actually no problem. There are plenty of people on HardForum using Titans even with overclocked CPUs on the Silverstone 450W PSU with absolutely no trouble at all; my i7-4770S and GTX780 are powered by it with no issue as well.

I mean, my system only maxes out at ~330W from the wall (measured during simultaneous Furmark and Prime95 with a cheap Kill-a-Watt), well below 450W. A Titan in the same rig should be right around ~400W.
post #106 of 428
This article from Gamestop about consoles is actually more of a validation that what Valve is doing is the right course IMO.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-57606513-93/game-console-updates-will-come-faster-gamestop-ceo-predicts/?part=rss&subj=news&tag=title

What the article suggests is way too expensive to execute reliably for a company like Microsoft. Especially if they are going to flush backwards compatibility with each console launch.
post #107 of 428
Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

Yeah, analog sticks are terrible for precision...but they at least have the advantage of auto-centering.

This....your thumbs will constantly be getting lost until muscle-memory kicks in as to 'where is the center point'........I love the idea of touch pads for the index fingers or even to the sides of the thumbsticks, but I wouldn't want an outright replacement for sticks. Maybe if the movement was stick based but the right-handed aiming is the trackpad part....dunno...
post #108 of 428
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadRusch View Post


This....your thumbs will constantly be getting lost until muscle-memory kicks in as to 'where is the center point'........I love the idea of touch pads for the index fingers or even to the sides of the thumbsticks, but I wouldn't want an outright replacement for sticks. Maybe if the movement was stick based but the right-handed aiming is the trackpad part....dunno...

 

Well, it looks like the pads are bowl-shaped, and have little ridges...that combined with the haptics should make finding center pretty easy.

post #109 of 428
Based on the review that was mentioned earlier it didn't sound like "where is center" was a problem because of the haptic feedback that gives you the sensation that you are hitting resistance as you move to the outer edges.

Also centering could be applied by simply lifting up your thumb off the pad.

It for sure is new muscle memory to learn but I think it could be more intuitive then when you first learned to control a camera with a stubby analog stick.
post #110 of 428
Quote:
Originally Posted by krimson View Post

Based on the review that was mentioned earlier it didn't sound like "where is center" was a problem because of the haptic feedback that gives you the sensation that you are hitting resistance as you move to the outer edges.

Also centering could be applied by simply lifting up your thumb off the pad.

It for sure is new muscle memory to learn but I think it could be more intuitive then when you first learned to control a camera with a stubby analog stick.

It also solves the biggest issue with analog sticks by far...the dead zone.
post #111 of 428
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

Well, it looks like the pads are bowl-shaped, and have little ridges...that combined with the haptics should make finding center pretty easy.

People keep forgetting about the Haptic Tech. Heck, I think most people don't even know what that is and just glossed over it.

Of course it depends on how advanced it is, but it's ability to relay information back to you without anything physical doing so might surprise most people.


Was there any mention of biometics? I remember Gabe talking about including them in controllers and games, but haven't heard anything about biometic implementations with the new controller.
post #112 of 428
Quote:
Originally Posted by TyrantII View Post

People keep forgetting about the Haptic Tech. Heck, I think most people don't even know what that is and just glossed over it.

Of course it depends on how advanced it is, but it's ability to relay information back to you without anything physical doing so might surprise most people.


Was there any mention of biometics? I remember Gabe talking about including them in controllers and games, but haven't heard anything about biometic implementations with the new controller.
Hmmm biometric implementations on the trackpads could be interesting to see what they do with especially in a game like Surgeon Simulator 2013 could be designed around such a controller. Talk about precision slicing, or if it can monitor pulse rate and make aiming and doing critical tasks harder.
post #113 of 428
I know that Haptic feedback is using vibrations and such to try and provide feedback but what else could it be?
post #114 of 428
Interesting Blog post by Nvidia....sounds like a good thing that I am an Nvidia fan.

http://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2013/10/04/steam-machines/
post #115 of 428
Thread Starter 
Can't find it now, but Valve clarified that Steambox ill be in a available in a bunch of configurations supported by Nvidia, ATI, and Intel. Nvidia just got the contract for the prototypes, and they're looking for good PR after the recent announcements from ATI.

It's good to see them full on board though. If SteamOS is going to work, Valve needs a very close relationship with both to lower dev costs for publishers, increase efficiency and usability on these guys hardware, and give gamers more value than Windows/DX.

They got quite the meal to serve.
post #116 of 428
yea, right after I posted that I say this article:

http://www.maximumpc.com/valve_steam_machines_won%E2%80%99t_be_exclusive_nvidia_2013

This is all good to hear IMO.

I am looking to sell my computer and build a new one based on mITX motherboard....would be quite awsome to run it on SteamOS when it comes out as I dont use my computer for anything other than games...
post #117 of 428
Demo of the new Steam controller, configured for a variety of different game types:
post #118 of 428
Controller vids look pretty compelling. Certainly not as crisp and controlled as m/kb but looked a lot more in control of the camera then using analog sticks.

Of course... that's not to say that there aren't people out there with that kind of finesse on analog sticks using high sensitivity, but it did look a bit more natural to control.
post #119 of 428
So, I know I'm a skeptic, but I'm even less convinced after that video actually. I figured the camera would behave more like a (more accurate) joystick in first-person shooting games. But watching that player flick his thumb multiple times across it to make large turns in Portal and Counter-strike? That almost gives me carpal tunnel just watching it. I mean, I don't care how much more precise it is, I've used mini-touchpads for HTPC control before, and it's annoying enough moving the mouse across a 1080p screen using a small touchpad that way, let alone trying to precisely turn a character around 180 degrees for example. So that actually looks worse to me for an FPS than I expected.

The other two games they showed, Civ 5 and Papers Please, are controlled only by a mouse. Obviously a touchpad works better in most cases than a joystick for controlling a mouse pointer, that's why most laptops don't have joysticks on them. (Though while on the subject, I prefer Lenovo's trackpoint for those too, but that's mainly just because I don't have to take my fingers off the keys to use the mouse when I'm working).

So, two of the scenarios in which this controller seems completely designed for work as expected, and two of them appear worse than expected (and obviously, this is just a personal opinion). I actually rarely play FPS games anyway, so that doesn't matter too much... but if they really want to convince me they need to start showing platformers, racing games, and other genres that make you look at the controller and say "there's no way that'll work".

Obviously, I haven't used this controller myself, and maybe I'm totally off. But I still can't help looking at this weird design and seeing zero benefit over a traditional controller, with plenty of downsides.
Edited by jhoff80 - 10/11/13 at 1:19pm
post #120 of 428
Linux has been the future of everything for as long as I can remember.

-Brian
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