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Diy sub to match hsu vtf15 ?

post #1 of 89
Thread Starter 
I have one hsu vtf15 in a 5.1 system in a room that is 14 x 18. The bass from 30 hz up is very good but 18-30 I want better. Ideally I would.buy a.second hsu sub but don't want to spend 1k right now. What would.be a good diy option to match hsu for 500-700 ? Is there one or am I better to just live with one sub for now ?

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post #2 of 89
oh boy, you can kill it.

stereo integrity 18" subs on sale delivered right now for $219. maybe buy two. :-)

"marty sub" enclosure.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1489541/large-ported-dayton-ho18s#post_23711186

inuke 3000 dsp amp. $399. has about 2000 watts

one channel would be fine. that would leave a second channel for later. :-)

...and I like hsu. good stuff. good prices. this just happens to be a crazy time for diy values.
post #3 of 89
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

oh boy, you can kill it.stereo integrity 18" subs on sale delivered right now for $219. maybe buy two. :-)"marty sub" enclosure.http://www.avsforum.com/t/1489541/large-ported-dayton-ho18s#post_23711186inuke 3000 dsp amp. $399. has about 2000 wattsone channel would be fine. that would leave a second channel for later. :-)...and I like hsu. good stuff. good prices. this just happens to be a crazy time for diy values.

Would i be better to get two si 18 and sell the hsu ? Having same brand then ? Would the si have more bass then the hsu ? Does the inuke have a loud fan that I have to mod ?
Thanks for input.
post #4 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by chalugadp View Post

Would i be better to get two si 18 and sell the hsu ? Having same brand then ? Would the si have more bass then the hsu ? Does the inuke have a loud fan that I have to mod ?
Thanks for input.

lol, I would personally

a single SI 18 would destroy a VTF-15.. 2 of them would be insane. ...especially ported turned to about 17 hz


and yes, you most likely would have to mod the Inuke 3000..
post #5 of 89
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wormraper View Post

lol, I would personally

a single SI 18 would destroy a VTF-15.. 2 of them would be insane. ...especially ported turned to about 17 hz



and yes, you most likely would have to mod the Inuke 3000..

Being a woodwork teacher making the Marty sub should be easy. Sounds like one marty will be plenty , not a basshead. Never had multiple subs. How do I wire them to my umc200 emo preamp ?
How about using crown xls1500 for amp and I don't have to worry about fan noise ?
post #6 of 89
Fan mod is super easy, it was a 5 min job for me.
post #7 of 89
Thread Starter 
On the stereo integrity website it says this for enclosure for 18"
 ported = 5-6 ft ^3 tuned to 20hz. Why is Marty sub enclosure so huge then ? What really the benefits of huge enclosure ? I am new to diy sub stuff.
post #8 of 89
the stereo integrity aka si subwoofers are available in dual 2 and dual 4 ohm, grab the dual 4 ohm for either of those amps. that way you can run them at a net of 2 ohms per channel and get about 1000 watts into each driver should you decide to go for 2. :-)

"Being a woodwork teacher making the Marty sub should be easy."

should be a piece of cake for you.

"How do I wire them to my umc200 emo preamp ?"

if the umc has enough output voltage to drive the amp (which it almost certainly will) all you will need is a simple rca to xlr cable which costs around $5.
post #9 of 89
"On the stereo integrity website it says this for enclosure for 18"
ported = 5-6 ft ^3 tuned to 20hz."

such a design would be fine.

"Why is Marty sub enclosure so huge then ?"

extra sensitivity on the low end and something rather technical in that the port can be both large and short which keeps the first port resonance out of the passband while minimizes port compression/chuffing.

"What really the benefits of huge enclosure ? I am new to diy sub stuff."

large enclosures make it much easier to create a level of bass for any given amount of power input. they are more efficient producers of big and deep sound.

the only downside is that they wouldn't sell very well, so most companies make smaller subs and then use marketing to try to convince people that they are just as good. they are not.

a grande piano is grande for a reason! tympanies are huge for a reason! :-)
post #10 of 89
Exactly. U get more SPL and sensitivity for the same amount of power but at the cost of a bigger box
post #11 of 89
here is a picture that shows the marty sub loaded with the si 18 ht driver and powered with 1100 watts vs. something like the hsu 15" driver tuned to 25hz with 700 watts.

red line = hsu 15" ported 25hz tuning

blue line = 5.5 cubic footer tuned to 20hz with si 18" driver

green line = marty sub 11.5 cubic footer tuned to 17hz with si 18" driver

so if you want the lowest notes and want them loud, the big sub is the way to go.

you can see why folks say the marty sub will just crush something like the hsu down below 25hz or so...

post #12 of 89
Thread Starter 
Ok ,that makes sense. So if this si 18 in a marty box will crush my hsu what would it be comparable to non diy ? Svs pb13 ultra ? Rythmic 15 fv15hp ?
post #13 of 89
Thread Starter 
I guess the marty would beat the svs according to the graph above
Edited by chalugadp - 9/19/13 at 1:05am
post #14 of 89
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

here is a picture that shows the marty sub loaded with the si 18 ht driver and powered with 1100 watts vs. something like the hsu 15" driver tuned to 25hz with 700 watts.red line = hsu 15" ported 25hz tuningblue line = 5.5 cubic footer tuned to 20hz with si 18" drivergreen line = marty sub 11.5 cubic footer tuned to 17hz with si 18" driverso if you want the lowest notes and want them loud, the big sub is the way to go.you can see why folks say the marty sub will just crush something like the hsu down below 25hz or so...[IMG ALT=""]http://www.avsforum.com/content/type/61/id/278845/width/350/height/700[/IMG]

So at 20 hz I will be getting nearly 10db's more with si Marty then my hsu ! Wow. Just have to figure a ay to sneak Marty into the living room without my wife seeing it initially !smile.gif
post #15 of 89
well, there are a thousand ways to pull it off, but here is just one...granite top...end table. :-)

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1405034/end-table-stealth-build-15-ed-aluminum-driver/30#post_21904679

funny thing...that guy has dual vtf15's in his theater before that build!

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1405034/end-table-stealth-build-15-ed-aluminum-driver#post_21903070
post #16 of 89
Thread Starter 
^^ will room placement be critical with marty ? Being that big it would have to face perpendicular to my seating area and either in the front or back corner or right underneath my tv in the front middle .
post #17 of 89
no more so than any other subwoofer. the really deep notes are below the room modes so it won't matter where it is located for those.

here is another stealth build, quite nice: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1487020/8-foot-long-sub-with-4-18-obsidian-si-drivers-build
post #18 of 89
Thread Starter 
Thanks for all the help Ltd .
post #19 of 89
think of how great 2 of those marty subs would be as nice coffee tables or end tables at the front corners of your HT :d
post #20 of 89
"So if this si 18 in a marty box will crush my hsu what would it be comparable to non diy ? Svs pb13 ultra ?"

the pb13 ultra in 15hz mode and the si 18 marty sub at 17hz with 1100 watts would be quite close in performance.

"Thanks for all the help Ltd."

no problem.
post #21 of 89
"think of how great 2 of those marty subs would be as nice coffee tables or end tables at the front corners of your HT :d"

or back to back under the screen semi-disguised.

post #22 of 89
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wormraper View Post

think of how great 2 of those marty subs would be as nice coffee tables or end tables at the front corners of your HT :d

If I built a tabletop on top of marty box and had my wife's knick knacks on the table.would the sub vibrate the items ?
post #23 of 89
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

"So if this si 18 in a marty box will crush my hsu what would it be comparable to non diy ? Svs pb13 ultra ?"

the pb13 ultra in 15hz mode and the si 18 marty sub at 17hz with 1100 watts would be quite close in performance.

"Thanks for all the help Ltd."

no problem.

So if I m just purchasing one si 18 I want the d2 ?

If I use the inuke 3000 for si sub do I use one channel in 4ohm or bridged ? Can it handle bridged power ? You mentioned 1100 Watts in your charts.
post #24 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by chalugadp View Post

If I built a tabletop on top of marty box and had my wife's knick knacks on the table.would the sub vibrate the items ?

No not at all.. That happens very seldom, it’s the sound pressure waves that rattle things in your room, not the sub itself.
post #25 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by chalugadp View Post

If I built a tabletop on top of marty box and had my wife's knick knacks on the table.would the sub vibrate the items ?
If it does you know that it's not sufficiently braced. Vibrating panels also waste output, since energy created by the driver is spent vibrating panels instead of eardrums.
post #26 of 89
"So if I m just purchasing one si 18 I want the d2 ?

If I use the inuke 3000 for si sub do I use one channel in 4ohm or bridged ? Can it handle bridged power ? You mentioned 1100 Watts in your charts."

that is kind of a tough call. more amp is generally better if you know what you are doing.

a dual 2 ohm driver, wired for 4 ohms, and run bridged off an inuke3000dsp would get around 2200 watts. in a large sub like the marty, cone excursion can run pretty high. with 2200 watts, the model shows 33mm at 23hz. in reality, it probably won't get quite that high and there is some running room after the 23mm xmax before the 43mm xmech point where the driver will be damaged.

I guess that I would suggest what I suggested before...dual 4 ohm driver wired for 4 ohms net and run off of 1 channel for 1100 watts and then getting a second driver for the second channel as the upgrade path.
post #27 of 89
"Can it handle bridged power ?"

that amp can handle bridged power at 4 ohms, but not lower.
post #28 of 89
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

"So if I m just purchasing one si 18 I want the d2 ?

If I use the inuke 3000 for si sub do I use one channel in 4ohm or bridged ? Can it handle bridged power ? You mentioned 1100 Watts in your charts."

that is kind of a tough call. more amp is generally better if you know what you are doing.

a dual 2 ohm driver, wired for 4 ohms, and run bridged off an inuke3000dsp would get around 2200 watts. in a large sub like the marty, cone excursion can run pretty high. with 2200 watts, the model shows 33mm at 23hz. in reality, it probably won't get quite that high and there is some running room after the 23mm xmax before the 43mm xmech point where the driver will be damaged.

I guess that I would suggest what I suggested before...dual 4 ohm driver wired for 4 ohms net and run off of 1 channel for 1100 watts and then getting a second driver for the second channel as the upgrade path.

So I want one d4 then... How do you wire it for 4 ohms ? Never wired a dual 4 ohm woofer. I am ordering the SI tomorrow !
post #29 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by chalugadp View Post

So I want one d4 then... How do you wire it for 4 ohms ? Never wired a dual 4 ohm woofer. I am ordering the SI tomorrow !

the d4's can ONLY be wired for 4ohm if you're wiring 2 of the SI 18's together on one channel. a dual 4 ohm coil can be wired for 2ohms net, or 8 ohms net and then be wired in series or parallel with another matching driver to give a 4 ohm net load to the amp (either in bridged mode or single channel).

if you're ONLY running one sub per channel (or one sub bridged) the D2 will net you 4 ohms
post #30 of 89
i'm sorry, that was a brain fart. the dual 4 ohm driver would be wired in parallel for a net of 2 ohms. that would be connected to one channel of the inuke3000dsp for 1100 watts (the manual says 1520 watts, but that is high).

the other channel would be left empty as the upgrade path.

wiring a driver in parallel is easy. one wire to connect red + to red +, another wire to connect black - to black -.

your amplifier will then hook up to one set of connectors, again red + from amp to red + on sub, and black - on amp to black - on sub.

so after it is all said and done, all the reds will be connected and all the blacks will be connected.
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