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Recommendations for a 7.1 Speaker setup for a Baffle Wall in 5-8K range

post #1 of 57
Thread Starter 
Guys,

Can you name some speaker brands that offer a good quality sound in the 5-8K range for a whole 7.1 setup. I'm planning on building a baffle wall and use a Seymour AT Screen.

I see that people using an AT screen go for Procella, JTR , Seaton, Genelac etc brands and they are in the 14-15K range and I don't plan to spend that much just for speakers. No doubt I would love those high end speakers but they are out of budget mad.gif

How about Klipsch (RF7II), Energy, Definitive Technology brands? Are they decent enough for an AT screen/Baffle wall? Can we get B-Stock Procella, JTR's in the 5-8K range biggrin.gif? What speakers would you recommend for that price range for an AT screen?


For reference, a Klipsch RF 7II system on ebay (acousticsounddesign) is around $8500.00

2 RF-7II Towers
1 RC-64 II Center
4 RS-62II Surrounds(Black Only)
SW-311 Subwoofer.(Black Only)


Thanks.
post #2 of 57
B&W 10-CM just came out. It will sound like 30K speaker if you upgrade the capacitor to Dueland CAST. Just buy the Capitor seperately from Parts connection and take it to your local speaker repair shop and they will DIY it for you for about $150-$200 for both speakers.

The single Dueland CAST capacitor starts from about $300 I think. You can thank me later.
post #3 of 57
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by NAIM101 View Post

B&W 10-CM just came out. It will sound like 30K speaker if you upgrade the capacitor to Dueland CAST. Just buy the Capitor seperately from Parts connection and take it to your local speaker repair shop and they will DIY it for you for about $150-$200 for both speakers.

The single Dueland CAST capacitor starts from about $300 I think. You can thank me later.

Will changing the capacitor affect the B&W warranty? Which surrounds go with CM10?
post #4 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by smuggymba View Post

Will changing the capacitor affect the B&W warranty? Which surrounds go with CM10?

I think it might but I am not sure. Just give them a call on Monday and ask. I think the CM-C which goes for about $600.00 will do for CM-10's since they use similar tweeters but again I am not sure. Best thing to do is to call them directly and ask.

Definately go with the Dueland CAST for your capacitor for all your speakers, you will have about 30K sounding system spending about $6,000.
post #5 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by smuggymba View Post

I see that people using an AT screen go for Procella, JTR , Seaton, Genelac etc brands and they are in the 14-15K range and I don't plan to spend that much just for speakers. No doubt I would love those high end speakers but they are out of budget mad.gif

That's a very handy budget, but I think you've dismissed JTR too quickly.

This all JTR system would provide outstanding HT performance and would be very hard to beat for your budget:

LCR: Noesis 228HT X 3 ............. $3600
Surrounds: Slanted 8HT X 4 ...... $3600
Sub: Captivator 1000 X 1 .......... $1900
Less: 10% discount for 8 units ... $910

TOTAL (ex. shipping) ............... $8190

Because of the JTR's high sensitivity, a mid-tier AVR is all that's required to play them at reference level in the average room.

Quality capacitors and inductors are included! biggrin.gif
post #6 of 57
Also ask about the capacitors in your cross-over of your speakers (CM-10's). It will have a particular value expressed in microFARAD, the symbol being uF or mF. Get that noted and give Parts connection a call, and they will give you the right volume of Dueland CAST for your speakers.

Now all you have to do is find a local speaker repair shop that has exprience under their belt and you got yourself a kick-ass system.

Most if not all excellent sounding $100,000+ speakers use Dueland CAST capicitors.

Just get the single Dueland CAST for your tweeter only. If youget the Dueland for your woofers, the amount will add up quickly. It will still sound great with just the tweeter capicitor upgrade.
post #7 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by NAIM101 View Post

B&W 10-CM just came out. It will sound like 30K speaker if you upgrade the capacitor to Dueland CAST. Just buy the Capitor seperately from Parts connection and take it to your local speaker repair shop and they will DIY it for you for about $150-$200 for both speakers.

The single Dueland CAST capacitor starts from about $300 I think. You can thank me later.

Smuggy, ^ that ^ is terrible advice - please DO NOT do it. Audiophile capacitor upgrades are simply a rip-off that at best won't interfere with a carefully engineered factory crossover. For the quoted $400+ per speaker (= $1200+), your money is far better spent on things that will make real, tangible improvements to the audio quality in your room, such as putting it towards a second identical sub.
post #8 of 57
To me, the best you could possibly get in this range is the used set of Monitor Audio - Gold speakers that are on eBay, Audiogon, and AVS classified. They are better speakers than almost anything in the price range, they are two weeks old, and are much more attractive than anything else.



Obviously you don't need the matching subwoofer, you'll need something better SVS/HSU/PSA/Rythmik.
post #9 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by smuggymba View Post

Guys,

Can you name some speaker brands that offer a good quality sound in the 5-8K range for a whole 7.1 setup. I'm planning on building a baffle wall and use a Seymour AT Screen.

I see that people using an AT screen go for Procella, JTR , Seaton, Genelac etc brands and they are in the 14-15K range and I don't plan to spend that much just for speakers. No doubt I would love those high end speakers but they are out of budget mad.gif

How about Klipsch (RF7II), Energy, Definitive Technology brands? Are they decent enough for an AT screen/Baffle wall? Can we get B-Stock Procella, JTR's in the 5-8K range biggrin.gif? What speakers would you recommend for that price range for an AT screen?


For reference, a Klipsch RF 7II system on ebay (acousticsounddesign) is around $8500.00

2 RF-7II Towers
1 RC-64 II Center
4 RS-62II Surrounds(Black Only)
SW-311 Subwoofer.(Black Only)


Thanks.

This would not be an optimal system for behind an AT screen. You are overspending on the fronts and badly shortchanging the subwoofer.

First of all, get multiple subs, and let them take care of the bass. Don't spend money on full range towers like the RF-7s when you can get a good pair of subs that will take care of the bass range much better. Go for speakers that don't try to do deep bass at all.

Second, you wouldn't want a horizontal center for an AT screen. Horizontal centers are compromised form factors for entertainment centers. The ideal is three identical vertical speakers for the front stage.

Third, the RS surround speakers are bipoles which are intended to create a big enveloping sound behind the listener, but it makes for a mess of a sound stage. That's fine for a 5.1 system if that is what you want, but it is pointless for a 7.1 system since such speakers lose distinct points of sound. If you want bipoles, just stick with 5.1. If you want 7.1, get some bookshelf speakers for surrounds. For a Klipsch RF7 system I would go for RB61 or RB51 bookshelf speaker surrounds with a Klipsch setup. The ones I recommend below are likely to be much better though.

Fourth, that subwoofer is awful. That whole system would be so badly top heavy in frequency. You need to allocate much more of your budget into subs and less in the front stage and surrounds.

If it were me, I would go for:
3 Pi Four speakers for the front stage, with upgraded woofers and tweeters. That would be about $4k. These have huge dynamic range and terrific on and off axis frequency response. They will punch harder and sound smoother than the RF7s.
4 JBL 8320s for surround speakers. They ought to be able to keep up with Pi Fours and they are THX certified. They will sound nice and be easy to mount. $1k shipped for four.
2 Rythmik FV15HP subwoofers. These are real overachievers, and a great value in the sub world. About $3k shipped for two.

There is an $8K system that would be worlds better than the Klipsch setup.
post #10 of 57
JBL Cinema speakers.

Fronts: http://www.jblpro.com/catalog/general/Product.aspx?PId=458&MId=1 or http://www.jblpro.com/catalog/general/Product.aspx?PId=83&MId=1

Rears: http://www.jblpro.com/catalog/general/Product.aspx?PId=279&MId=1

Subs: http://jtrspeakers.com/home-audio/captivator-1000/

That's with 3 fronts and 4 surrounds. $5500ish with 1 subwoofer and $7500ish with 2 subwoofers. Huge dynamics and sound.

Other avs users having switched to true cinema speakers for themselves. http://www.avsforum.com/t/1280211/jbl-pro-3677-have-arrived
Edited by ifor - 9/22/13 at 3:48pm
post #11 of 57
^^ great suggestion.

as an alternative, if you can put together a flat pack speaker, check out some of the seos options in the diy area. probably in the neighborhood of 5:1 performance vs. store bought.

http://www.diysoundgroup.com/waveguide-speaker-kits/seos-deltalite-kit.html

clear as a bell and kicks like a mule. i think there is a box available if you can't cut mdf. :-) i'd suggest the sealed box and 80hz highpass filtering.

someone may even assemble and finish them for you for not much more.

pispeakers.com is another option. the 4 pi with the 2226h upgrade woofer and b&c compression driver. smooth, powerful...a bit more money though.

if you don't mind flat pack kits again for the subs, 4 stereo integrity 18" drivers are something like $900 delivered right now.

a couple dayton home amplifiers if you don't want to use pro amps will work fine for power.

another upgrade that you may wish to consider is an amplifier with some real balls for the mains and center. crown xls2500 would be a good choice.

all this is well within your budget and will be an experience that is only a hair shy of what you would get with something like the jtr noeses/captivator setup.

good luck and feel free to pm to me if you have questions. i don't sell anything, just feel for you....
post #12 of 57
Just got back from listening to the CM-10's. They are OK sounding. Soundstage was good and clear and bass was good too. However, I wouldnt spend $5,000 on these. I suggest going with the above recommendations.
Edited by NAIM101 - 9/22/13 at 5:05pm
post #13 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by smuggymba View Post

Guys,

Can you name some speaker brands that offer a good quality sound in the 5-8K range for a whole 7.1 setup. I'm planning on building a baffle wall and use a Seymour AT Screen.

I see that people using an AT screen go for Procella, JTR , Seaton, Genelac etc brands and they are in the 14-15K range and I don't plan to spend that much just for speakers. No doubt I would love those high end speakers but they are out of budget mad.gif

How about Klipsch (RF7II), Energy, Definitive Technology brands? Are they decent enough for an AT screen/Baffle wall? Can we get B-Stock Procella, JTR's in the 5-8K range biggrin.gif? What speakers would you recommend for that price range for an AT screen?


For reference, a Klipsch RF 7II system on ebay (acousticsounddesign) is around $8500.00

2 RF-7II Towers
1 RC-64 II Center
4 RS-62II Surrounds(Black Only)
SW-311 Subwoofer.(Black Only)


Thanks.

Three In-wall Triad Silver LCR's up front.
Two Bronze in-wall surounds
Two Bronze in-wall LCR's
Two SVS PB13-Ultra subs

An in-wall speaker will work very well in a baffle wall installation.
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post #14 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by GIEGAR View Post

That's a very handy budget, but I think you've dismissed JTR too quickly.

This all JTR system would provide outstanding HT performance and would be very hard to beat for your budget:

LCR: Noesis 228HT X 3 ............. $3600
Surrounds: Slanted 8HT X 4 ...... $3600
Sub: Captivator 1000 X 1 .......... $1900
Less: 10% discount for 8 units ... $910

TOTAL (ex. shipping) ............... $8190

Because of the JTR's high sensitivity, a mid-tier AVR is all that's required to play them at reference level in the average room.

Quality capacitors and inductors are included! biggrin.gif
fwiw, for a strictly dedicated home theater +1
post #15 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by GIEGAR View Post

That's a very handy budget, but I think you've dismissed JTR too quickly.

This all JTR system would provide outstanding HT performance and would be very hard to beat for your budget:

LCR: Noesis 228HT X 3 ............. $3600
Surrounds: Slanted 8HT X 4 ...... $3600
Sub: Captivator 1000 X 1 .......... $1900
Less: 10% discount for 8 units ... $910

TOTAL (ex. shipping) ............... $8190

Because of the JTR's high sensitivity, a mid-tier AVR is all that's required to play them at reference level in the average room.

Quality capacitors and inductors are included! biggrin.gif

Good suggestions for better than Theater sound if you can pay the toll but substituting the JBL 8320 for the Slanted 8's would save $2,600 or, give you dual Cap 1000's.

I like that trade but you should really try and go hear some of these before you pull the trigger ... wink.gif
post #16 of 57
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

Three In-wall Triad Silver LCR's up front.
Two Bronze in-wall surounds
Two Bronze in-wall LCR's
Two SVS PB13-Ultra subs

An in-wall speaker will work very well in a baffle wall installation.

Mike - What the total price of this system?
post #17 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by GIEGAR View Post

That's a very handy budget, but I think you've dismissed JTR too quickly.

This all JTR system would provide outstanding HT performance and would be very hard to beat for your budget:

LCR: Noesis 228HT X 3 ............. $3600
Surrounds: Slanted 8HT X 4 ...... $3600
Sub: Captivator 1000 X 1 .......... $1900
Less: 10% discount for 8 units ... $910

TOTAL (ex. shipping) ............... $8190

Because of the JTR's high sensitivity, a mid-tier AVR is all that's required to play them at reference level in the average room.

Quality capacitors and inductors are included! biggrin.gif

Good suggestions for better than Theater sound if you can pay the toll but substituting the JBL 8320 for the Slanted 8's would save $2,600 or, give you dual Cap 1000's.

I like that trade but you should really try and go hear some of these before you pull the trigger ... wink.gif

Was just thinking the same thing after reading shadyJ's and ifor's recos and looking at the JBL specs. Trouble is there's swings and roundabouts with Jeffs discounts, so it puts a "7.2" hybrid system $1K over the OP's budget:

LCR: JTR Noesis 228HT X 3 ........ $3600
Surrounds: JBL 8320 X 4 ........... $990 (shipped)
Sub: Captivator 1000 X 2 ........... $3800
Less: 5% discount for 4+ JTR's ... $370

TOTAL (ex. JTR shipping) ........... $8020

OP: Given the relative importance of subs -v- surrounds, I'd suggest foregoing the rear surrounds for now if your budget is firm. Rears can be added in future if you feel your missing out on something. Alternatively, you could look to the used market for the surrounds. Redundant

Edits: Corrected my error in quoted price of JBL 8320's.
.
Edited by GIEGAR - 9/23/13 at 1:30pm
post #18 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by smuggymba View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

Three In-wall Triad Silver LCR's up front.
Two Bronze in-wall surounds
Two Bronze in-wall LCR's
Two SVS PB13-Ultra subs

An in-wall speaker will work very well in a baffle wall installation.

Mike - What the total price of this system?

Not Mike, but this is what I found:

Three In-wall Triad Silver LCR's up front = $2550
Two Bronze in-wall surrounds = $1000
Two Bronze in-wall LCR's = $1150
Two SVS PB13-Ultra subs = $3800

TOTAL = $8500 (shipped)

http://www.triadspeakers.com/products/intropagelcrscenter.html

[PS: That Triad vendor was just the first one Google threw up that had prices. I don't know how trusted they are... they do proudly claim to be insane! eek.gif In any event, you may find better prices elsewhere with more time to search.]
post #19 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

Three In-wall Triad Silver LCR's up front.
Two Bronze in-wall surounds
Two Bronze in-wall LCR's
Two SVS PB13-Ultra subs

An in-wall speaker will work very well in a baffle wall installation.

Why in-wall speakers?
Why Bronze LCRs?

While I love Triad. It just won't even compete in the volume and dynamic department compared to the other recommendations here. If this is a dedicated theater room, (why wouldn't it be with a baffle wall?) looks and size shouldn't matter. While sensitivity, dynamics, detail and volume should be at the top of the list.

I would choose either the JBL cinema or the JTR system.

If the OP doesn't want the physical size of the JBL 3252n, then GEIGAR's reco's would be great and fit in the budget with one subwoofer instead of two. Two would be better though.
Although I couldn't find a reason why the size of the JBL 3252n or 3677 would be a concern since it will be in a baffle wall. Exactly what theaters use.
post #20 of 57
"It just won't even compete in the volume and dynamic department compared to the other recommendations here."

+1.

maybe most folks don't know that a 9db sensitivity disadvantage (corrected for impedance) between what you suggested and something like the triads is EIGHT times the number of speakers. that is something that i didn't understand for quite some time. the difference is even larger than the speakers appear because of the driver and enclosure design objectives.
post #21 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by ifor View Post

Why in-wall speakers?
Why Bronze LCRs?

While I love Triad. It just won't even compete in the volume and dynamic department compared to the other recommendations here. If this is a dedicated theater room, (why wouldn't it be with a baffle wall?) looks and size shouldn't matter. While sensitivity, dynamics, detail and volume should be at the top of the list.

I would choose either the JBL cinema or the JTR system.

If the OP doesn't want the physical size of the JBL 3252n, then GEIGAR's reco's would be great and fit in the budget with one subwoofer instead of two. Two would be better though.
Although I couldn't find a reason why the size of the JBL 3252n or 3677 would be a concern since it will be in a baffle wall. Exactly what theaters use.

His budget is not large enough for Golds. We would need to ask the poster if he has room for JBL cinema speakers. Very few people have that kind of room. Need a lot of width and a lot of depth. Also with a setup like that, you are going to need a big AT screen. That brings up a whole set of other things to consider, especially lighting up a large AT screen.
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post #22 of 57
Thread Starter 
Room 12ft X 22 ft. Will have just one row of seats i.e. a big sectional.

Room is 12 X 22 in the front half and 14 X 22 in the back half. It's dedicated media room. i'm trying to see how much it would all cost and then plan accordingly. Thanks for the awesome advice as always.


LEAD Technologies Inc. V1.01
post #23 of 57
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

This would not be an optimal system for behind an AT screen. You are overspending on the fronts and badly shortchanging the subwoofer.

First of all, get multiple subs, and let them take care of the bass. Don't spend money on full range towers like the RF-7s when you can get a good pair of subs that will take care of the bass range much better. Go for speakers that don't try to do deep bass at all.

Second, you wouldn't want a horizontal center for an AT screen. Horizontal centers are compromised form factors for entertainment centers. The ideal is three identical vertical speakers for the front stage.

Third, the RS surround speakers are bipoles which are intended to create a big enveloping sound behind the listener, but it makes for a mess of a sound stage. That's fine for a 5.1 system if that is what you want, but it is pointless for a 7.1 system since such speakers lose distinct points of sound. If you want bipoles, just stick with 5.1. If you want 7.1, get some bookshelf speakers for surrounds. For a Klipsch RF7 system I would go for RB61 or RB51 bookshelf speaker surrounds with a Klipsch setup. The ones I recommend below are likely to be much better though.

Fourth, that subwoofer is awful. That whole system would be so badly top heavy in frequency. You need to allocate much more of your budget into subs and less in the front stage and surrounds.

If it were me, I would go for:
3 Pi Four speakers for the front stage, with upgraded woofers and tweeters. That would be about $4k. These have huge dynamic range and terrific on and off axis frequency response. They will punch harder and sound smoother than the RF7s.
4 JBL 8320s for surround speakers. They ought to be able to keep up with Pi Fours and they are THX certified. They will sound nice and be easy to mount. $1k shipped for four.
2 Rythmik FV15HP subwoofers. These are real overachievers, and a great value in the sub world. About $3k shipped for two.

There is an $8K system that would be worlds better than the Klipsch setup.


JBL 8320 -4 seem to be $1980.00 for 4. How did you get the $1000.00 price
post #24 of 57
Thread Starter 
I have put all the info in place, can you guys have a look to make sure the pricing is correct. Thanks.

Speakers.xlsx 15k .xlsx file
post #25 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by smuggymba View Post

JBL 8320 -4 seem to be $1980.00 for 4. How did you get the $1000.00 price

That pricing is per pair.
post #26 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by smuggymba View Post

JBL 8320 -4 seem to be $1980.00 for 4. How did you get the $1000.00 price

That pricing is per pair.

Oops, my mistake. I've now edited post 17 to reflect the correct price.

Those JBL's look like great value.
post #27 of 57
Where did you get the prices for the JBL 3722?

Maybe look at the JBL 3677 for your fronts.
post #28 of 57
With an 11 feet width the cinemas will not fit unless side by side. I have not heard a more powerful speaker for its size than the JTR's so I would get them! Get the JBL surrounds to save for more subs! One day you can upgrade to JTR surrounds if need be. Can you afford passive Cap 2400's?
post #29 of 57
If the OP goes for the 3677, then it should allow at least a foot between the speakers. But the JTRs should do really well in that size of room.

Or the JTR Captivator S2 which could sit in the baffle wall.
post #30 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valtyr View Post

To me, the best you could possibly get in this range is the used set of Monitor Audio - Gold speakers that are on eBay, Audiogon, and AVS classified. They are better speakers than almost anything in the price range, they are two weeks old, and are much more attractive than anything else.



Obviously you don't need the matching subwoofer, you'll need something better SVS/HSU/PSA/Rythmik.

I did really like the Monitor golds that I heard, and I thought they sounded great with music I can honestly say that I still preferred my JTR speakers for movies. If the OP was using his setup for 70% or more for movies I still say JTR is a better option then Monitor Audio and cheaper too.
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