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Sony 65W850a reviews - Page 2

post #31 of 2591
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaverJ View Post

I'm bracing myself for disappointing black levels, because this set doesn't use the "deep black panel" like the W900A.

Plasma-level blacks are out of the question, but hopefully it can get acceptably close and uniformly so (no clouding or flashlighting), and still maintain the W-series low input lag. I'm itching to pull the trigger. smile.gif


That's what has stopped me from purchasing it yet. I know the closeout 950 is a bit more but it will have that pure black level thanks to the FALD (like the Elite tv) that is close to plasma level. The short time I had the Elite tv, it easily held it own against my Kuro and beat it in many areas.

My other concern is the clouding and flashlighting. In all my lcd tv purchases, the only set that didn't have any clouding or flashlighting was my Elite tv. Every Sony I had as always had it to some extent and any other brand I have owned. Honestly I think it's better to just expect some of it because it's almost a guarantee that it will be there. With a FALD set like the Sony 950/Elite tv, you can at least hide the majority of it once the local dimming in engaged. My second Elite tv I got from BB had clouding and flashlighting a bit. When I turned on local dimming though, it looked completely black even in a dark room.
Edited by YOTR - 10/9/13 at 12:28pm
post #32 of 2591
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cg006 View Post

I currently have a PN60F8500

So undecided if i should keep it or get an LED...
So far the plasma has been great and i have not had any crazy Image retention (goes away in about 1 minute) on my GTAV 3-5 hour gaming sessions... but i am still paranoid....

I will be willing to trade for an LED if just like the post above can get "close"..
Still have about 3 weeks left to return the Plasma..............


Honestly if you are coming from a 8500, it won't be close (black level wise). The only sets LED wise that will be close to your 8500, VT/ZT, or a Kuro will be a FALD set like the Elite TV's or Sony XBR 950 models. I have had Pioneer Kuro's for the past 5 years and only the Elite tv gave me the same or better performance. Any other LED that is out, won't come close black level wise. Yes the W900 is a great set and has great color but I wouldn't put it in the same league as a high end plasma. If black levels are not important to you, then an LED will probably be fine (and you don't have to worry about IR then).
post #33 of 2591
Quote:
Originally Posted by YOTR View Post

Honestly if you are coming from a 8500, it won't be close (black level wise). The only sets LED wise that will be close to your 8500, VT/ZT, or a Kuro will be a FALD set like the Elite TV's or Sony XBR 950 models.

Gah - the HX950. It's also on my short list, but it's last year's model, the input lag isn't detailed anywhere I can find (the HX750 and HX850's lag isn't that great), and it's $800 more expensive. Still... black level.

Fingers crossed on the W850A having all the right stuff. redface.gif
post #34 of 2591
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaverJ View Post

Gah - the HX950. It's also on my short list, but it's last year's model, the input lag isn't detailed anywhere I can find (the HX750 and HX850's lag isn't that great), and it's $800 more expensive. Still... black level.

Fingers crossed on the W850A having all the right stuff. redface.gif

I'm with you, lol. I would love to save $800 and honestly the whole banding thing worries me a bit with the 950 series (every set that has it to some degree though). Clouding and flashlighting really bother me on lcd's though. I can deal with grey black levels as long as the screen is uniform.
post #35 of 2591
Quote:
Originally Posted by YOTR View Post

My other concern is the clouding and flashlighting. In all my lcd tv purchases, the only set that didn't have any clouding or flashlighting was my Elite tv. Every Sony I had as always had it to some extent and any other brand I have owned. Honestly I think it's better to just expect some of it because it's almost a guarantee that it will be there. With a FALD set like the Sony 950/Elite tv, you can at least hide the majority of it once the local dimming in engaged. My second Elite tv I got from BB had clouding and flashlighting a bit. When I turned on local dimming though, it looked completely black even in a dark room.

So clouding/flashlighting shouldn't be a concern because the W850A has local dimming, right? wink.gif
post #36 of 2591
I wonder if Costco will carry the W850 ? Anyone know their criteria to determine what sets they will stock? I would think the 65w850 would be a natural fit between the 60&70 inch R550 line. Give a shout if anyone knows or has info. Thanks.
post #37 of 2591
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaverJ View Post

So clouding/flashlighting shouldn't be a concern because the W850A has local dimming, right? wink.gif

I wish wink.gif

Unfortunately it will still be an issue for one reason: Fully Array Local Dimming which is not found on the W850, only the 950 and Elite. Fully array means it has many zones across the entire screen that will dim when the local dimming is engaged. The W850 has edge lit local dimming so clouding/flashlighting will still be visible just like the W900. Who knows how good or bad it will be but the only sets I have ever seen that limit or eliminate clouding/flashlighting is a FALD set.
post #38 of 2591
I have the 65w850a set on order from Amazon with no tax and free private carrier delivery. I should get the set anywhere from Oct 16th to Oct 21st. I had been watching a Pana VT30 (top set in 2011) for 2 years and not long ago I turned the set on and got the 7 red blinks of death. The 3 boards to possibly fix it myself would cost right at $300 and it may only last 2 more years.

I looked heavily into this new Sony 65", 850a set with the new triluminos display. I'm hoping it nears the plasma picture quality. The panasonic set had the blackest blacks and best color I have ever seen on a TV. Just like when the French Beta tape players ran circles around the VHS method. Not that many years later they came up with the super VHS then with the newer HQ tapes had the same picture quality of the beta's. I'm sure Sony and other leading TV manufactures are working hard to come out with a LED set that would be as good as a plasma.

I used the 900a 55" model to compare the picture quality. Amazon cust reveiws (27) of them all rated it 5-stars. I should mention the 850a is said to have new improved easy to use Smart TV functions.

http://www.amazon.com/Sony-KDL-55W900A-55-Inch-240Hz-Internet/product-reviews/B00AWKBZ0M/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1
post #39 of 2591
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteSands View Post

I have the 65w850a set on order from Amazon with no tax and free private carrier delivery. I should get the set anywhere from Oct 16th to Oct 21st. I had been watching a Pana VT30 (top set in 2011) for 2 years and not long ago I turned the set on and got the 7 red blinks of death. The 3 boards to possibly fix it myself would cost right at $300 and it may only last 2 more years.

I looked heavily into this new Sony 65", 850a set with the new triluminos display. I'm hoping it nears the plasma picture quality. The panasonic set had the blackest blacks and best color I have ever seen on a TV. Just like when the French Beta tape players ran circles around the VHS method. Not that many years later they came up with the super VHS then with the newer HQ tapes had the same picture quality of the beta's. I'm sure Sony and other leading TV manufactures are working hard to come out with a LED set that would be as good as a plasma.

I used the 900a 55" model to compare the picture quality. Amazon cust reveiws (27) of them all rated it 5-stars. I should mention the 850a is said to have new improved easy to use Smart TV functions.

http://www.amazon.com/Sony-KDL-55W900A-55-Inch-240Hz-Internet/product-reviews/B00AWKBZ0M/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1


Definitely post when it arrives! Unfortunately I don't see any LED set that will approach plasma. Color wise yes but black level wise I doubt it. The Sony XBR 950 and Elite tv did match or beat many plasma's but manufacturers are going away from Full Array Local Dimming. Without FALD, the LED market won't be able to compete with plasma at all black level wise. Overall image will be great but black level's are really important at least to me (as a former Kuro owner). The new OLED sets are very impressive but that's new tech. The W900 is very impressive but again average black level performance compared to even low end panasonic plasmas. It all depends on what you want. I think the W850A will be a great set but if you are hoping for plasma black levels, that is not going to happen.
post #40 of 2591
Ok WhiteSands, you seem like you are in the best position to give a good look at this TV and help us pull the trigger. Coming from plasma will be very interesting - the VT60 is next on my list behind the W850a, but I'm very weary about plasma.

btw, do you game on your TV?

Anyway, I feel I might be looking forward to you recieving your TV as much as you are. biggrin.gif

post #41 of 2591
So i called crutchfield and requested to have my F8500 hauled back.... frown.gif such a beautiful picture.....

I couldnt handle being paranoid of messing up my screen anymore. And was starting to hate that while playing video games, i couldn't crank up my screen brightness as high as i wanted in PC mode, having to make sure i "vary" content after every few hours of playing my video games with fear of putting any permanent damage if i decide to just play COD or BF4 a week straight everyday after work and do JUST that.. with an LED i wont have to worry much..i guess if i ever get a tv for my room i may go plasma since it will be mainly for movies/tv shows ...but i would hate myself to mess up a 60' panel costing almost 3k......

Still..loved the image quality of that plasma..

Now i am just waiting to see what to get... hopefully this tv 65w850A will be a good compromise ( i understand basically no led/lcd can touch plasma blacklevels; especially now since no one seems to be makinf FALD) ...Once November kicks in... i will probably be playing some games non stop hours on end with the new ps4/xbox one


where are the reviews!!!!!!!! lol:mad:


PS.. although im gonna have to pay $135 to haul it back... i am glad they give me the option to use it for 60 days so i can decide if i made the right choice for my situation. And also.. i got to use a plasma first hand (never owned one) .


Also... for anyone that may not know... NO-Tax and free 2 shipping on tvs to NY.. too bad amazon chargs me tax frown.gif
Edited by Cg006 - 10/10/13 at 11:39pm
post #42 of 2591
Why are you so worried about IR? I have the F8500 and have had no IR, and have owned plasmas before with no IR.
post #43 of 2591
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmilacek View Post

Why are you so worried about IR? I have the F8500 and have had no IR, and have owned plasmas before with no IR.

Probably because other people do have problems with IR, especially on Panasonic sets.
Less so on Samsung.
post #44 of 2591
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmilacek View Post

Why are you so worried about IR? I have the F8500 and have had no IR, and have owned plasmas before with no IR.

I don't know if you were directing the comment at me or not, but I would like to respond.

For every plasma owner that says they have no problems with IR and the issue is overstated, I read others that say they took all precautions to avoid IR and got it anyway.

It's unclear what the chances of getting IR w/ plasma is, but based on anecdotal evidence, I don't like the odds and don't want that threat hanging over my head as I try to enjoy this expensive purchase.

Check out the comments section of this C/NET article:
  • "Plasma burn-in and image retention (even if it is temporary) are STILL HUGE PROBLEMS"
  • "So I am not alone with this IR/Burn-in problem with the Panasonic TC-P60ST60"
  • "Our brand new Samsung PN60E7000 set, however, has a pretty bad, seemingly permanent burn of the KTLA 5 logo"
  • "I got IR from a game called Saints Row III."
  • "I've made every effort to do things right"
  • "The bottom bar that shows scores on the NFL Network became burned in to my TV after only a couple hours."
  • "If you play games, watch regular TV, or use it as a computer monitor, you will certainly eventually get noticeable dark spots or stripes."
  • "My plasma now has vertical bars burned into each side of the screen that won't go away. "
  • "Despite all of these precautions, our set developed burn-in (and it's burn-in NOT IR) in the upper left-hand corner"
post #45 of 2591
Thread Starter 
You can even check comments in the Master Burn-in and IR thread here.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only

Plenty of posts about it on the newest model plasmas.
post #46 of 2591
Not to derail but I am absolutely amazed that my VT50 gets IR on the boot-up "Smart Viera" logo. It flashes on the screen no more than 3 seconds when the panel is turned on. That's it, but I have IR of it after every few weeks. It wipes off....but...really????
post #47 of 2591
I don't want to get off topic either but I will state that the only plasma I have ever owned without IR issues was a Pioneer Kuro. Consequently that's one of the main reasons I purchased my first Kuro over 5 years ago (and the black levels). Unlike the other plasma manufacturers, the Kuro never got IR at all. If you did expereince something, it was on the screen for a second or two then gone. I was a heavy gamer and never had any IR either. No screen wiping needed or leaving it on full color slides all night to try and remove it. I tried a VT60 but also experienced bad IR over time so I am back looking at lcd's again. Having had Kuro's for so long has spoiled me black level wise which is why I am still considering one of the last FALD set available.
post #48 of 2591
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaverJ View Post

I don't know if you were directing the comment at me or not, but I would like to respond.

For every plasma owner that says they have no problems with IR and the issue is overstated, I read others that say they took all precautions to avoid IR and got it anyway.

It's unclear what the chances of getting IR w/ plasma is, but based on anecdotal evidence, I don't like the odds and don't want that threat hanging over my head as I try to enjoy this expensive purchase.

Check out the comments section of this C/NET article:
  • "Plasma burn-in and image retention (even if it is temporary) are STILL HUGE PROBLEMS"
  • "So I am not alone with this IR/Burn-in problem with the Panasonic TC-P60ST60"
  • "Our brand new Samsung PN60E7000 set, however, has a pretty bad, seemingly permanent burn of the KTLA 5 logo"
  • "I got IR from a game called Saints Row III."
  • "I've made every effort to do things right"
  • "The bottom bar that shows scores on the NFL Network became burned in to my TV after only a couple hours."
  • "If you play games, watch regular TV, or use it as a computer monitor, you will certainly eventually get noticeable dark spots or stripes."
  • "My plasma now has vertical bars burned into each side of the screen that won't go away. "
  • "Despite all of these precautions, our set developed burn-in (and it's burn-in NOT IR) in the upper left-hand corner"


Your post pretty much sums it up. Some people have no issues; others do... I decided I just don't want to take my chances In the long run. 3k is a lot of money ( at least for me it is) . And I just want to be able to enjoy the tv without having that in the back of my mind.

I love the black levels and PQ.... But I can't fully enjoy the tv as it is now.

Ohh and to add.... I find it crazy on some posts of people having to leave the tv on / running slides/ screen wipes to try to wash out some resilient IR FOR HOURS!!! Or having to deal with some persistent IR FOR WEEKS/ months while it fades away. Even if it does... Seeing it I'll drive me nuts. Lol


Sorry everyone for derailing this thread. Don't want it to turn unto a plasma bashing post either. I Know some people that are extremely happy with their sets.. For me I guess I made the wrong choice.
Edited by Cg006 - 10/11/13 at 12:16pm
post #49 of 2591
Thread Starter 
I briefly saw the set today at Best Buy. He said he had just put it out for display that same day.

I took a picture as proof, not for any quality analysis.
Despite the picture, the black levels did not look as dark as the W900a right above it.

post #50 of 2591
Wow the 55 looked tiny, were the picture settings identical?

Otherwise perhaps it's due to the deep black panel thingy.
post #51 of 2591
Quote:
Originally Posted by dallow View Post

I briefly saw the set today at Best Buy. He said he had just put it out for display that same day.

Thanks for that pic - first sighting in the wild! biggrin.gif I know you said the pic isn't to judge quality, but still - colors look pretty dang good. And as congster said, the size is very favorable compared to the w900a.

So besides black level, what was your initial impressions of the w850a? How noticeable was the black level, and do you think it would matter if you didn't have something next to it to compare to? I'm assuming the feed was some Best Buy demo?
post #52 of 2591
thanks for the pic!

The w900a seems to be at an angle though... could affect the picture as well...

Anyways... it seems sony will be using a different panel for the 65 so people are expecting the panel to not have such great black levels like the 55' frown.gif
The colors look pretty good though! smile.gif

Still.. thanks for the picture! At least it exists! Hopefully reviews should start to trickle in soon.
post #53 of 2591
Thread Starter 
Yeah, the 900A was at an angle, so the picture makes it looked too bright like that.

In person, both looked good color wise. Blacks slightly darker on the 900a though I didn't dig into picture settings on either. The feed was the typical Best Buy thing, with lots of artifacts and macroblocking, so I really hate to judge based on that.

The W850a has a textured metallic bezel around the edge, whereas the 900a has the crystal bevel cut thing.

I too am hoping for some professional reviews soon.
post #54 of 2591
The R550A is not looking to bad as well.... the 70" has good input lag and a decent picture.
post #55 of 2591
Quote:
Originally Posted by dallow View Post

Yeah, the 900A was at an angle, so the picture makes it looked too bright like that.

In person, both looked good color wise. Blacks slightly darker on the 900a though I didn't dig into picture settings on either. The feed was the typical Best Buy thing, with lots of artifacts and macroblocking, so I really hate to judge based on that.

The W850a has a textured metallic bezel around the edge, whereas the 900a has the crystal bevel cut thing.

I too am hoping for some professional reviews soon.
Dallow, Thanks for giving us a good depiction of the set. From your pic I think they are very close in performance. Still, the 900 series is great , but size matters!! BB in Austin is waiting for its first w850.
post #56 of 2591
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaverJ View Post

I'm bracing myself for disappointing black levels, because this set doesn't use the "deep black panel" like the W900A.

Plasma-level blacks are out of the question, but hopefully it can get acceptably close and uniformly so (no clouding or flashlighting), and still maintain the W-series low input lag. I'm itching to pull the trigger. smile.gif

The 55" W900A I looked at on the amazon site shows it also has the 'Dynamic Edge LED backlight' for amazing contrast same as the new 65W850A. Both have the Trilateral display. The big gain is the 65" screen.

At least the blacks on the new set will be much better than any common edge lit set.

Sony says this about the w850a:

The difference is dynamic

It's all about perfecting a natural look. Dynamic Edge LED backlighting with local dimming displays your movies and shows with tremendous accuracy and detail, especially in dark scenes where details tend to get lost. Contrast boost in just the right areas creates pitch-black night scenes and bright scenes that pop with vibrant color.

I did some research and it looks like the XBR set has the deepest LED blacks which is very close to the best plasmas. That's due to using the 'ultra' dynamic edge backlighting. I read up on this from a Sony UK site. I won't be interested in the 'ultra XBR' model till I can get a 65" model and a price that would be affordable. Looks like the 65" Ultra XBR 4K sets for around $5000.
Edited by WhiteSands - 10/13/13 at 11:03pm
post #57 of 2591
The KDL-65W850A set is on it's way from amazon. It should be here Thursday October 17th. I never owned a large 65" TV as yet. I did have a Pana 55" VT-30 which was CNet's top rated TV in 2011. It went out last month after 2 years use. I may try to fix it this winter.

In 2012 at the CES show CNet voted the Samsung 8000 series slightly better than the Pana plasma.

What I don't understand is that some say the 55" 900a has better backlighting and blacks over this new 65W850a set. I compared both on the Amazon and Sony web sites and both show to have the same Dynamic Edge LED Backlighting.

The CNet short review say's the same thing: It has the same edge-lit LED backlight with local dimming and Triluminos technology as the 55" W900A set.

Here is the CNet site. Page down after the short review to read some individual comments that impressed me about this set.

http://reviews.cnet.com/2300-12801_7-10018162-10.html
post #58 of 2591
Where are you guys seeing that it doesnt utilize the deep black panel? The specs on the abt website states that it does
post #59 of 2591
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Navarro View Post

Where are you guys seeing that it doesnt utilize the deep black panel? The specs on the abt website states that it does

Someone pointed it out here: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1458698/official-sony-kdl-55w900a-owners-thread/1470#post_23775208
post #60 of 2591
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaverJ View Post

I don't know if you were directing the comment at me or not, but I would like to respond.

For every plasma owner that says they have no problems with IR and the issue is overstated, I read others that say they took all precautions to avoid IR and got it anyway.

It's unclear what the chances of getting IR w/ plasma is, but based on anecdotal evidence, I don't like the odds and don't want that threat hanging over my head as I try to enjoy this expensive purchase.

Check out the comments section of this C/NET article:
  • "Plasma burn-in and image retention (even if it is temporary) are STILL HUGE PROBLEMS"
  • "So I am not alone with this IR/Burn-in problem with the Panasonic TC-P60ST60"
  • "Our brand new Samsung PN60E7000 set, however, has a pretty bad, seemingly permanent burn of the KTLA 5 logo"
  • "I got IR from a game called Saints Row III."
  • "I've made every effort to do things right"
  • "The bottom bar that shows scores on the NFL Network became burned in to my TV after only a couple hours."
  • "If you play games, watch regular TV, or use it as a computer monitor, you will certainly eventually get noticeable dark spots or stripes."
  • "My plasma now has vertical bars burned into each side of the screen that won't go away. "
  • "Despite all of these precautions, our set developed burn-in (and it's burn-in NOT IR) in the upper left-hand corner"

to throw in my two cents, I have a Samsung PN63C8000, which was a high-end plasma, and it has IR issues, but they decreased over time. When I first got the set, it was very bad, and IR would happen quickly. I ran Plasma Break-In videos and, after a while, I could play for hours without a problem. The panel was just replaced (different problems) and the new one has the same issues, so i've been running those videos for about 2 days.
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