or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers › FATHOM F112 VS KK DXD12012
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

FATHOM F112 VS KK DXD12012

post #1 of 46
Thread Starter 
Anyone have experience with these two sub? Which is superior in terms of SQ for music and movies.?
Putting price aside.
post #2 of 46
For that price range add in the Seaton Submersive HP, betting it would outperform both of the others.
post #3 of 46
I have a single DXD12012 and it was chosen for SQ first and does this well regardless of the note being produced cleanly. I was extremely impressed with it on classical as it plays back and captures the lower string and horns in a manner akin to a well designed midrange driver in its ability to never smear the music! On movies with its ability to give upper bass kick while seamlessly digging into the ULF of the most demanding of movies cleanly and honestly I've never heard anything produce bass so well. I have not heard the JL or the Seaton, both of which are worthy contenders indeed!

Good luck on your search wink.gif
post #4 of 46
Thread Starter 
Funny these 2 famous sub never seem to meet. I have googled everywhere and it seems no one on this planet have seriously compared both. Is there a reason for it?
post #5 of 46
I wouldn't call the DXD12012 famous really, There aren't as many KK subs out there as JL Audio subs, and certainly not as many dealers. There are also a lot of higher end subs out there, and realistically you wouldn't really expect a face off between each one. Face-offs are generally discouraged by manufacturers and dealers, especially in the high end. The subs that typically are subjected to face-offs are are more raw performance oriented subs rather than ones with pretty finishes, because these face-offs are done by enthusiasts and not rich people who bought their subwoofer for its appearance.
post #6 of 46
Unless I had no choice except the F112 and the KK DXD12012, I would get a Seaton Submersive HP: Dual 15 inch drivers, with a 2,400 watt amp. Sound quality is second to none (IMHO).
post #7 of 46
If I reading correctly, it's ONE seaton vs. TWO kk stacked. Correct me if I'm wrong. Kk has better mid bass. Seaton extend lower?
post #8 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post

For that price range add in the Seaton Submersive HP, betting it would outperform both of the others.
I agree, the JL's seem wayyyyyyy over priced.
post #9 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post

I agree, the JL's seem wayyyyyyy over priced.

They aren't that badly overpriced. You guys a nearly $1k driver, and a high powered amp with its own room correction equalization in a true luxury finish in a relatively small cabinet, it's no wonder they are so popular. You have to remember that their street prices are quite a bit lower than their MSRP as well. If you need a sub but can't have a big one, JL Audio is basically the best there is.
post #10 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by datranz View Post

If I reading correctly, it's ONE seaton vs. TWO kk stacked. Correct me if I'm wrong. Kk has better mid bass. Seaton extend lower?

No Sir! It was a single DXD12012 wink.gif
post #11 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by datranz View Post

If I reading correctly, it's ONE seaton vs. TWO kk stacked. Correct me if I'm wrong. Kk has better mid bass. Seaton extend lower?

One thing to keep in mind for this comparison is the KK is down 10-12dB @20hz (outside, 2m) and iirc the Submersive is down around 3-5dB? This is a huge difference in regards to subjective interpretations of sound quality/ "kick in upper bass". Double check on the room size for the comparison too. They tend to run quite small on that forum compared to what we're used to here.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
post #12 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post

One thing to keep in mind for this comparison is the KK is down 10-12dB @20hz (outside, 2m) and iirc the Submersive is down around 3-5dB? This is a huge difference in regards to subjective interpretations of sound quality/ "kick in upper bass". Double check on the room size for the comparison too. They tend to run quite small on that forum compared to what we're used to here.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio

Good points indeed! wink.gif it's cool those guys go for the biggest baddest subs as we do here in the States do regardless of space biggrin.gif
post #13 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post

No Sir! It was a single DXD12012 wink.gif

If you look at the title of the thread and read the first page, it looks like the comparo is with a stack, not a single.

Topic: Quattro setup with other sub to complement the deep Low
post #14 of 46
BTW I would get the KK over the JL 112. Dual 12's vs single 12. As for the Submersive vs the KK, deeper bass wins everytime for me.
post #15 of 46
Stack was my impression as well in the middle of the thread. I didn't read the begining.
post #16 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by wth718 View Post

If you look at the title of the thread and read the first page, it looks like the comparo is with a stack, not a single.

Topic: Quattro setup with other sub to complement the deep Low

There where things going on at his store at the time as well ( the duo stack demo) as for the face off it was a single. Some where even paring the DXD with Rhythmic as well. Are you that surprised ?
post #17 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

BTW I would get the KK over the JL 112. Dual 12's vs single 12. As for the Submersive vs the KK, deeper bass wins everytime for me.

I want it all clean bass period and in my room at the moment the single is doing fine up high and down low ( measures flat, low distortion,natural roll off , no filters).If more out is needed down the road, that means a duo or a Quattro stack later wink.gif
post #18 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post

There where things going on at his store at the time as well ( the duo stack demo) as for the face off it was a single. Some where even paring the DXD with Rhythmic as well. Are you that surprised ?

No, it really was a stack. Read the comments on page 5.
post #19 of 46
While I know it may be hard to believe , it really was one sub ! There was a demo planned at his store for the stack and the shootout was planed out to be at the host house of the guy who actually owned the Seaton. here's post from the thread in bold

"3 sub will be on the shootout , we will setup tomorow night and may do fine tune for each one depend on the owner acceptance on the setting before the open house , sdds will send his add to you for audition will likely take place after 11am on saturday when sdds satisfied on his setting and Began happy with his sub performance than the audition will take place , thereafter no adjustment is allow till we call off .
But if scotts and began say Ok , than we may have a limit test on the 3 sub ( it may kill the sub ) to measure what is the max SPL each can deliver for a continuous mid bass punch for 10mins."


take note of the 3 subs wink.gif
post #20 of 46
We keep going over and over this. One of these will NOT compete with a Submersive or JTR unless you're playing at low levels. Period. They simply do not have enough grunt. They are counting the STACK as a single sub. Note all the references:



Re: Let's do a subwoofer shootout

« Reply #67 on: November 01, 2012, 12:57 »





Quote from: Yeek on November 01, 2012, 12:04

Hi Peng,

What's "twin stack"? 2 projectors one on top of the other for 3d?

If so I also wanna book a seat smile.gif

Yeek




this is for the
DXD-808 stack ( 2 sets ) and DXD-12012 stack (2 sets ) .

projector stack for 3D . wait till our new showroom ready than.... ;D

The night event is for ppl to enjoy the whole movie or Music and it will be pair with
Sophia ,lexicon , to drive the DXD808 stack or DX12012 stack with 5508 as the processor.
Began jtr s1 sub , there is some amp sealing issue . Every time, the sub is crack at ref level 80 db , there is chaffing noise . Therefore , too be honest we are not hearing its true potential and also as mention before , the sub was not properly place n eq . I would say jtr s1 is the most compact 18 inch u would find in the market . Performance wise , can dug as low as the seaton , but midbass punch not as good as the stack kk sub. wink.gif
post #21 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post

While I know it may be hard to believe , it really was one sub ! There was a demo planned at his store for the stack and the shootout was planed out to be at the host house of the guy who actually owned the Seaton. here's post from the thread in bold

"3 sub will be on the shootout , we will setup tomorow night and may do fine tune for each one depend on the owner acceptance on the setting before the open house , sdds will send his add to you for audition will likely take place after 11am on saturday when sdds satisfied on his setting and Began happy with his sub performance than the audition will take place , thereafter no adjustment is allow till we call off .
But if scotts and began say Ok , than we may have a limit test on the 3 sub ( it may kill the sub ) to measure what is the max SPL each can deliver for a continuous mid bass punch for 10mins."


take note of the 3 subs wink.gif

Did that Ken Kriesel sub come with some magical pills you take that allows it to defy the laws of physics?
post #22 of 46
Hi guys, keep in mind without knowing the source material and levels used for all of the comparisons it makes it very difficult to reach any conclusions here. I remember reading a review with four different sized Velodyne servos back in the late 1990s(?). 10", 12", 15" and 18" versions from the same product line. IIRC there was something like a 10-12dB difference in clean output capabilities between the smallest and largest. Which, coincidentally may be the differences in the two primary designs discussed here. Anyway, the reviewer noted that up until the smallest 10" unit reach its output limits.....he could not discern an audible difference between it and the largest 18" model.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
post #23 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post

Hi guys, keep in mind without knowing the source material and levels used for all of the comparisons it makes it very difficult to reach any conclusions here. I remember reading a review with four different sized Velodyne servos back in the late 1990s(?). 10", 12", 15" and 18" versions from the same product line. IIRC there was something like a 10-12dB difference in clean output capabilities between the smallest and largest. Which, coincidentally may be the differences in the two primary designs discussed here. Anyway, the reviewer noted that up until the smallest 10" unit reach its output limits.....he could not discern an audible difference between it and the largest 18" model.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
\

Good point. In the thread they're talking about 80 and 90 dbs. At those levels, one can't really separate the performance of the auditioned subs.
post #24 of 46
BTW, I found the piece I referenced above,

http://www.nousaine.com/pdfs/Subwoofers%20How%20Big%20is%20Big%20Enough.pdf

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
post #25 of 46
I just realized what's going on here! somehow you guys are thinking for some unknown reason I posted that link to say which sub was better ! well far from it it ! For one, I found that it related to the OP question in his search, as I wanted to provide additional info. Second I thought you guys would appreciate the fact that there are Bass heads around the globe, and the fact that it was a rare occurrence to have both subs in the same room for a what I thought you guys understood as a subjective shoot off. No claims were made regarding the comparison by me eek.gif

What I do see is a continuation to bash Ken's subs at every post , even those related to it. I'm a little dumbfounded by this and it and if that's your point then go for it and have your fun! smile.gif
post #26 of 46
Well for the OP I already mentioned which sub I would get out of the two in the title.
post #27 of 46
No one is doing that AF1. We're just pointing out to you that 1 sub with 2 12s on ~750 watts is not going to be in the same league as one with 2 high excursion 15s on 2400 watts or a high excursion 18 on similar power. Unless, as Tom mentioned, you're playing at levels low enough to not flesh out the differences. With a stack (4 12s and 1500 watts) it's a much closer comparison.

In the end, it doesn't matter because what they seemed to be after was finding a complement to the midbass kick of the KK. They each played to different strengths. I just don't want readers to come away with the impression that 1 of these are comparable to the other 2 subs. They're just not, any way you cut it. If you want to consider that bashing, so be it.
post #28 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by wth718 View Post

No one is doing that AF1. We're just pointing out to you that 1 sub with 2 12s on ~750 watts is not going to be in the same league as one with 2 high excursion 15s on 2400 watts or a high excursion 18 on similar power. Unless, as Tom mentioned, you're playing at levels low enough to not flesh out the differences. With a stack (4 12s and 1500 watts) it's a much closer comparison.

In the end, it doesn't matter because what they seemed to be after was finding a complement to the midbass kick of the KK. They each played to different strengths. I just don't want readers to come away with the impression that 1 of these are comparable to the other 2 subs. They're just not, any way you cut it. If you want to consider that bashing, so be it.

I'll see what I can do to find out for sure if it was one or a stack, it really doesn't matter one way or another to me and even if it was one, it really means nothing for reasons I already agreed with Tom about. Do keep in mind I never posted it for the sake of a "which is better" "some hidden agenda " or to defy the laws of physics . I kinda thought I was being objective in my post regarding the subject and did my best to choose my words carefully smile.gif but somehow once again , lost in translation! I really thought you guys would enjoy the planet Bass thread as a whole as they discuss the same sub's we do here in the states and tried to mention the Triax as well, as there's a huge PSA following as well there.

Its not a comparison guys , relax and enjoy wink.gif
post #29 of 46
It was a shootout or comparison. No matter what objective when you place different subs in the same room they get compared and even if one was setup wrong or a faulty something people tend to just focus on the best one to them. I find it a little annoying when people do that. To get a real subjective comparison everything must be apples to apples. The Submersive will not dig deeper than the Cap1 unless something was up and there was. However It did not stop them from liking the others better even though they knew the Cap S1 was faulty. Many times a sub will be considered to have tighter, cleaner, more detailed Midbass when the bottom end is gone. The low notes are indeed slower because they are longer wavelengths! Again people lose track of this in comparisons. Were these subs EQ'd at all, same location , optimal locations for each sub? I have a friend who plays tennis with me and always refers to us on the same level because he plays with me. Of course I always beat him anywhere from 6-2 to 6-0 but because we play together we are equal.
post #30 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

It was a shootout or comparison. No matter what objective when you place different subs in the same room they get compared and even if one was setup wrong or a faulty something people tend to just focus on the best one to them. I find it a little annoying when people do that. To get a real subjective comparison everything must be apples to apples. The Submersive will not dig deeper than the Cap1 unless something was up and there was. However It did not stop them from liking the others better even though they knew the Cap S1 was faulty. Many times a sub will be considered to have tighter, cleaner, more detailed Midbass when the bottom end is gone. The low notes are indeed slower because they are longer wavelengths! Again people lose track of this in comparisons. Were these subs EQ'd at all, same location , optimal locations for each sub? I have a friend who plays tennis with me and always refers to us on the same level because he plays with me. Of course I always beat him anywhere from 6-2 to 6-0 but because we play together we are equal.

Ok ! sorry for posting the link I'll delete it smile.gif
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers › FATHOM F112 VS KK DXD12012