or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › Denon x4000 or Onkyo TXNR929 or Pre-Pro
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Denon x4000 or Onkyo TXNR929 or Pre-Pro - Page 2

post #31 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by moodyda View Post

But I can indeed use my B&K as the main amp for the Denon x4000 and use its on board amp to power my other 2 zones correct? Also how does the Marantz 7008 compare to the Denon (it gets good reviews) and I probably would be able to leave the B&K amp in the attic.

I'm quite pleased with my X 4000. That being said, if I had the dough for a 7008 I'd go in that direction, if only for the dedicated 9.2 outs, as opposed to the 7.2 with pre outs for height or width for 9.2 with the Denon. Apparantly the Marantz has slightly higher quality parts, though that could just be marketing. I had a 6007 before my X 4000 and loved the sound from it! And it looked pretty awesome too. That being said the X 4000 has a new feature " Video Select " that lets me change the video input while listening to different audio. So for instance, and I do this a lot, I can listen to my turntable, or internet radio, while surfing the web on my HTPC at the same time. If the 7008 had that as well, I'd go for it.
post #32 of 69
^^
The X4000 will only power "either" Zone 2 or 3 in stereo, otherwise it would require an external amp to power both Zones 2 and 3, unlike the flagship 4520CI which is not only a 9CH AVR but also has the "Free-assign" feature to assign unused on board amps to other speakers. The 7008 and X4000 both feature XT32 so would be fairly comparable, although the 7008 is also a 9CH AVR like the 4520CI and could power Zones 2 and 3 without any external amplification added.
post #33 of 69
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

^^
The X4000 will only power "either" Zone 2 or 3 in stereo, otherwise it would require an external amp to power both Zones 2 and 3, unlike the flagship 4520CI which is not only a 9CH AVR but also has the "Free-assign" feature to assign unused on board amps to other speakers. The 7008 and X4000 both feature XT32 so would be fairly comparable, although the 7008 is also a 9CH AVR like the 4520CI and could power Zones 2 and 3 without any external amplification added.

Which would then be the top choice for power output? Going with the B&K and Denon x4000. Or one of the other 2. And which one of those 2 would the top choice in output (7008 vs 4520ci)?
post #34 of 69
Power differences would be moot especially if you plan on using a 5CH amp for the 5 main zone speakers. The 4520CI is a "flagship" model and a level above the rest in both build quality and some additional features as well as being capable of powering 4-ohm speakers without an external amp.
post #35 of 69
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Power differences would be moot especially if you plan on using a 5CH amp for the 5 main zone speakers. The 4520CI is a "flagship" model and a level above the rest in both build quality and some additional features as well as being capable of powering 4-ohm speakers without an external amp.

So would you rule out the Marantz 7701 with these 3 on the table?
post #36 of 69
Regarding the 7701, I spoke with a dealer recently who recommended the 7701 over the X4000 claiming that the XT32 on the X4000 can be bested by them doing a "pro" calibration on Audessey. They do this at $50 so its not a huge cost factor. This recommendation came along with the statement of separates being better than AVR in many instances. He did state though that some AVR's are right there with the separates, but since I already have a quality amp, might as well use that piece and save some money on the cost of say a Denon 4520 of higher end NAD. My speakers are 4ohm so the x4000 may have triouble with that using its amp.

After reading all of the posts stating that AVR and separates are now sounding the same, this is getting to be a more and more interesting thread to follow for me. I am not sure if the X4000 can be "pro" calibrated, but even if it can, what are the pros and cons of that avenue? The biggest con I can think of is if your changed your room around or even move the speakers, then it would need to be calibrated again...is this correct thinking?
post #37 of 69
^^
Not sure what "Pro" calibration the dealer was referring to, but for $50 it was not likely an "Audyssey Pro" calibration. An installer must come to your home to do the calibration and generally charges about $500 of which $150 of that is the license for that particular unit. Additionally, the calibration would only use the MultEQ XT version on the 7701, so there is no way that the 7701 + Audyssey Pro calibration would best a unit just using XT32. Also note that the Audyssey Pro kit only allows you to "tweak" the existing version of Audyssey used on the unit being calibrated so at best it might improve the audio fidelity of that unit maybe 10%, while use of XT32 alone would more likely improve the audio fidelity closer to 20-30%.
post #38 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by moodyda View Post

So would you rule out the Marantz 7701 with these 3 on the table?

What you choose is a personal choice (sometimes based on looks as well). The 7701 with just MultEQ XT would still be a fine unit; however, if better audio fidelity is the goal, upgrading to an XT32 unit (7008, 8801, X4000, 4520CI) would be the better choice.
Edited by jdsmoothie - 9/27/13 at 4:40am
post #39 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

^^
Not sure what "Pro" calibration the dealer was referring to, but for $50 it was not likely an "Audyssey Pro" calibration. An installer must come to your home to do the calibration and generally charges about $500 of which $150 of that is the license for that particular unit. Additionally, the calibration would only use the MultEQ XT version on the 7701, so there is no way that the 7701 + Audyssey Pro calibration would best a unit just using XT32. Also note that the Audyssey Pro kit only allows you to "tweak" the existing version of Audyssey used on the unit being calibrated so at best it might improve the audio fidelity of that unit maybe 10%, while use of XT32 alone would more likely improve the audio fidelity closer to 20-30%.

Thanks JD. I thought that 50 was awfully low as well, calibrating my plasma was far more than 50. Given that I live almost 90 minutes from the store it really did sound too good. Additionally I have read other posts about the 150 license charge. So the Audyessy Pro calibration only tweaks XT, that does make sense.
post #40 of 69
^^
The Audyssey Pro Kit can only be used on those AVRs that are "Audyssey Pro" capable which includes some XT and XT32 models, but yes, it only tweaks what the on board version has already done although it does use a higher quality mic and can go up to 32 mic positions.
post #41 of 69
I might be one of the few to have both the Onkyo 929 and the Denon x4000 in my living room and not just those, also a HK 3700. I own the Onkyo and HK, testing the Denon with a good return policy.
I might need more time than the 48hrs I had all of those so far.
I probably would not have bet more than a few pennies (being a former Onkyo 818 and multiple Denon receivers owner) but it turns out that I prefer so far the Onkyo by an almost safe margin (will see if more time with the Denon will make me change my mind).
In my expression the sound of the Denon seems to be more bass-lean and also less "engaging" than the Onkyo. it also puzzles me that also in this iteration Denon does not allow to use tone control (bass and treble) when Audyssey Dynamic EQ is engaged.
Make no mistake I am not saying the Denon sounds bad. Not at all. I am just stating my unexpected preference for the Onkyo for reasons that my ears explain better than my brain can put into words.

Having said that, for music listening the much less powerful Harman Kardon still gets my vote (and most likely it is the only one I will keep).

So far winners in the respective areas are:

Power: Onkyo (Denon close, Harman distant)
Music: Harman
Usability: Harman
Remote: Onkyo
Movies: Onkyo (Denon close)
Android app: Denon (Onkyo close)

Tested with Energy RC-70, RC-10, Veritas 5.2C, Polk PSW110, Sony BDS-5100 Blu Ray player.
Edited by rispoli - 9/27/13 at 1:39pm
post #42 of 69
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

^^
The Audyssey Pro Kit can only be used on those AVRs that are "Audyssey Pro" capable which includes some XT and XT32 models, but yes, it only tweaks what the on board version has already done although it does use a higher quality mic and can go up to 32 mic positions.

With that being said is there any comparing Audyssey XT32 to anything from Yamaha or Pioneer?
post #43 of 69
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rispoli View Post

I might be one of the few to have both the Onkyo 929 and the Denon x4000 in my living room and not just those, also a HK 3700. I own the Onkyo and HK, testing the Denon with a good return policy.
I might need more time than the 48hrs I had all of those so far.
I probably would not have bet more than a few pennies (being a former Onkyo 818 and multiple Denon receivers owner) but it turns out that I prefer so far the Onkyo by an almost safe margin (will see if more time with the Denon will make me change my mind).
In my expression the sound of the Denon seems to be more bass-lean and also less "engaging" than the Onkyo. it also puzzles me that also in this iteration Denon does not allow to use tone control (bass and treble) when Audyssey Dynamic EQ is engaged.
Make no mistake I am not saying the Denon sounds bad. Not at all. I am just stating my unexpected preference for the Onkyo for reasons that my ears explain better than my brain can put into words.

Having said that, for music listening the much less powerful Harman Kardon still gets my vote (and most likely it is the only one I will keep).

So far winners in the respective areas are:

Power: Onkyo (Denon close, Harman distant)
Music: Harman
Usability: Harman
Remote: Onkyo
Movies: Onkyo (Denon close)
Android app: Denon (Onkyo close)

If I were to use my B&K instead of the on board amp with the Denon x4000 wouldn't that exceed the sq of the Onkyo. Just afraid of Onkyo due to the HDMI issues. However, I gues I could buy Best Buy's protection contract that is for 4 years for about $125 and that should cover it. What do you think?

Tested with Energy RC-70, RC-10, Veritas 5.2C, Polk PSW110, Sony BDS-5100 Blu Ray player.
post #44 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by moodyda View Post

With that being said is there any comparing Audyssey XT32 to anything from Yamaha or Pioneer?

Depends on whether you prefer YPAO (Yamaha), MCACC (Pioneer), or Audyssey (Onkyo, Denon, Marantz).
post #45 of 69
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by moodyda View Post


OOPs typed in the wrong spot

If I were to use my B&K instead of the on board amp with the Denon x4000 wouldn't that exceed the sq of the Onkyo. Just afraid of Onkyo due to the HDMI issues. However, I gues I could buy Best Buy's protection contract that is for 4 years for about $125 and that should cover it. What do you think?
post #46 of 69
Exceed the sq? Using the B&K simply makes more overhead available to the AVR.
post #47 of 69
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Exceed the sq? Using the B&K simply makes more overhead available to the AVR.

The previous post stated that the Onkyo had a little more bass. I am assuming (and could be wrong) that that may have something to do with the amplification. However, with my SVS sub bass is the one thing I do not lack but really need control of. And if the Denon can do this that would make me thrilled. Also you have made it quite apparent that Audyssey is the real deal especially XT32. Is Pioneer and Yamaha that far away....esp in the low end?
post #48 of 69
My impression is that the Onkyo, and also the Harman, have better distributed (integrated) bass, if that make sense to anyone besides me, when listening to music.
There is plenty of thump with the Denon when needed in movies, make no mistake, and it will certainly take full advantage of your svs sub.
It is also my impression that the treble of the Denon (which you cannot tweak with audyssey dynamic eq engaged) is more fatiguing than the Onkyo and way more than the Harman which excel in non-fatiguing sound (indeed this is the aspect that also my wife could't fail to notice).
post #49 of 69
Thread Starter 
That is interesting. So you are saying that even when Audyssey is engaged on the Onkyo you still are able to control or tweak the tone?
post #50 of 69
Yes, on all the Onkyos "Tone control" is always available also with Audyssey engaged. Same thing on the HK, always available (but no audyssey on the HK).
Un-tweaked I find the Denon quite treble-heavy: in fact if I could I would reduce it a bit. With the Onkyo I set treble +3 and bass 0.
Edited by rispoli - 9/28/13 at 7:36pm
post #51 of 69
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rispoli View Post

Yes, on all the Onkyos "Tone control" is always available also with Audyssey engaged. Same thing on the HK, always available.
Un-tweaked I find the Denon quite treble-heavy: in fact if I could I would reduce it a bit. With the Onkyo I set treble +3 and bass 0.

I think then I'm sold on the Onkyo 929. For under 2k I believe that only this model and the Marantz 7008 meet all of my needs. If the Marantz could be had for around 1500 I think that I would go for it due to its sq characteristics (warmer like your HK), but since the 929 has the tone control plus the XT32 and is a powerful 9.2 to boot I don't believe that I could do better for 1299.smile.gif
Thanks
post #52 of 69
I also briefly tested the Marantz 5008, it didn't impress me so much for sound quality and I really did not hear this warmth I read about. I guess it is more of a neutral sound while the HK feels more colored (in the right way for me). The Harman Kardon 2700/3700 remain my pick for music listening and also for movies they are no slouch, with dialogue very easy to hear.
post #53 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by moodyda View Post

If the Marantz could be had for around 1500 I think that I would go for it
You should be able to get the 7008 for $1500. If you have a local dealer that sells Marantz, they should agree on that price.

I bought the 6008 for $850 (+$51 tax) from my local dealer (not internet). The MSRP is $1200.

Don't be shy or afraid to negotiate.
post #54 of 69
I am in the same boat as yours, but I am going to go with ONKYO (or say willing to take that risk!).

This would be my first receiver ever! I always wanted an ONKYO, I don't know something is in the name, I like that word 'ONKYO' and I like the THX logo as well.

Besides, being an Analog Engineer myself I do believe they make great products and I also believe in giving a second chance. But I wont buy TX-NR929 until its around 800 bucks.
post #55 of 69
$800 bucks, good luck with that. After all my research I was in my serious buying mode. Not only were there no discounts but they were all out. Some sites said buy now and we'll email you when they are available. It took me a couple of weeks to find one.
post #56 of 69
^^
Should have called AVScience as we sell both models. wink.gif
post #57 of 69
You forgot I called.
post #58 of 69
Oops! Yes, I did forget. redface.gif Although the 929 does seem to be in short supply.
post #59 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Collins View Post

$800 bucks, good luck with that. After all my research I was in my serious buying mode. Not only were there no discounts but they were all out. Some sites said buy now and we'll email you when they are available. It took me a couple of weeks to find one.

I am certain it will hit that price point.... but got to wait a little..... watch out for time between black Friday until December 31st.

FYI, last year's volume selling model TX-NR818 was available for 636 from amazon.com. That's the lowest I saw during that time.
post #60 of 69
Just get the Denon X4000 and use it with your B&K. No HDMI issues and a better warranty than Onkyo
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Receivers, Amps, and Processors
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › Denon x4000 or Onkyo TXNR929 or Pre-Pro