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Official Sony VPL-VW500ES / VW600ES 4K Projector Thread - Page 54

post #1591 of 2855
Quote:
Originally Posted by lincoln_husker View Post

you can put the 4K media server (or any other video sources) somewhere other than your projector you know?

What? Why would i be worrying about hdbaseT if the video source is next to the projector. I have an equipment room with all my sources in it, including......hdbaseT hdmi matrix.
post #1592 of 2855
After much deliberation, I finally pulled the trigger and ordered a VW600ES (should be here tomorrow!!) Other than cost, the major hold-up was the high input lag.. my VW85 and the VW100 before it were pretty great in this regard; it's the only area where I'm taking a (potentially huge) step backwards.

I decided that I'd try to live w/ the lag, and if it was bad enough, I'd get a known-fast (sub 20ms) LCD or DLP projector as a secondary display for gaming-only. That said, I was wondering if anyone here had been able to find settings that were more responsive than the 97-106ms lag I've seen in reviews. Perhaps with a 1:1 source? Service menu setting? Do any other VW600ES owners care about the lag? biggrin.gif
post #1593 of 2855
The server will only work on the 600/1100 projectors and the Sony 4K panels.i
post #1594 of 2855
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post

Their young roster and injuries showed big Sunday. Should be a good learning experience for the young guys going into next season. Can't say I am disappointed....they made it very far despite what was against them. Good season!

I am actually glad I can watch the Super Bowl unobjectively and possibly enjoy it in a relaxed fashion for once. lol

I agree completely, if Brady had an offensive line like the broncos he would have thrown 5 touchdown passes that game
post #1595 of 2855
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

D.J and M.G.

Class is in session.


The Sony zoom screen uses the full 1.89 width of the Sony chips.

The vertical lines are the edge markers for resolutions of 1.89 and smaller. You can not have an vertical edge marker of a higher ratio than 1.89. Why? The chip is limited by its width ratio, 1.89 times its height. Thus we see vertical edge markers of 1.85, 1.78. and 1.33 labeled on the diagram. The outer most (double line pair) edge markers are not labeled. But since the chips are is 1.89, the outer most vertical marker is at 1.89. The inner double line must be something less. Maybe 1.88 or a little less. I believe those two markers should represent over zoom, with the inner of the two being set at vertical screen edge if one is using a 1.89 screen. If one sets the aspect on the Sony to normal which is 1.78, the machine will light only the 1.78 width of the chip. The outer markers and the 1,85 markers are useless in this scenario. They are only useful if you select a higher aspect on the Sony. Two are available, 1.85 and 2.35. These will light the entire chip using 2.35 and almost all of the chip using 1.85.

The top and bottom horizontal markers represent the chip edge which is always lit with active picture for source aspects of 1.78 and below when the Sony aspect is set at 1.78. When the Sony aspect is set at 1.85 or 2.35, the top and bottom edge markers will represent 1.85 or 1.89. In all such instances, the outer of the two lines I think represent set up over zoom with the inner of the two representing screen edge. The only other horizontal edge markers represent 2.35. Source aspects above 1.89 have black bars, top and bottom. Using the Sony aspect for 2.35, the 2.35 edge markers are for that. Using the normal 1.78 aspect on the Sony, the 2.35 edge markers to be vaid each would have to occupy 12.5% of the vertical height. They combined are less than 25% vertical on that on the pattern but look correct for the 1.89 chip width available by setting the Sony aspect at 2.35. They would occupy about 10% each of the vertical height.

Please digest and correct the Professor as necessary.


biggrin.gif thanks for the lecture.

and it isnt really that difficult to adjust the Picture/ zoom /aspect correct, just put a movie in 2.40:1 on ( like Cars ) and adjust, so it fits the screen, then memories it and then on to the Next format and so on ( not telling it to you, Mark, I know you know that - its for the guy´s who use more days to get it "in the ballpark" - no need to make it more difficult then it has to be wink.gif

dj
post #1596 of 2855
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Middleton View Post

This sounds like a very nice machine. I am in the throes of upgrading my display from an older DLP projector. I have been working with Craig, who has been very helpful. My HT has some limitations, specifically that my screen width is limited to 88". I don't see a need to have my PJ resolution exceed the limits of visual acuity, but am wondering about buying this machine instead of the DPI M Vision Cine 1000 LED. One of the advantages of the DPI, besides price, is the LED light source, which means I will have no reservations about using it as a daily driver. It seems that coupled with an OPPO 103, which will upscale DVDs and accept input from a wireless cable box, the 1000 will provide a satisfying picture without getting crazy. OTOH, in a review of the Sony which compared it against a Runco LS-5, the reviewer said the Sony was clearly superior. So, the philosophical question is, is good enough really good enough, or will spending twice the money provide "meaningful" overkill given my screen size? I'm sure that any current PJ will be a vast improvement, ie, the JVCs, Sony 55, Epson, etc. Not being able to see these things in person makes these decisions difficult, so I thought I'd ask here. Am awaiting reviews on the 1000, but not holding my breath. Any input is appreciated.

I would check out the jvc x35 with your size screen It would look dynamite, I just demoed a runco ls3 in my room against a jvcx35 and the jvc was just as sharp, wonderful colors, contrast and blacks no contest. The runco had no graininess to the picture and the jvc had some but not a deal killer.

For $3500 retail it's a heck of a deal, worth checking out!

Btw I have had all dlps and currently have an infocus 777 3 chip 720 dlp that I'm upgrading
post #1597 of 2855
Quote:
Originally Posted by d.j. View Post

biggrin.gif thanks for the lecture.

and it isnt really that difficult to adjust the Picture/ zoom /aspect correct, just put a movie in 2.40:1 on ( like Cars ) and adjust, so it fits the screen, then memories it and then on to the Next format and so on ( not telling it to you, Mark, I know you know that - its for the guy´s who use more days to get it "in the ballpark" - no need to make it more difficult then it has to be wink.gif

dj

Agree. To get the right zoom and lens shift for 2.35 I simply put in one of my favorite 2.35 BD's, pause it, and then adjust (and then store). Same for getting the HDTV (which for me is the 17x9 AR); find a good program, pause it, adjust zoom and lens shift, and save.
post #1598 of 2855
BTW.

Today I at last did get to see a 500ES in action , and with the "puck" on it ( sorry Mark, I know you said its only the 600/1100 wink.gif and I did also only see some 4K clips from it ) - sadly I had only about one hour to look at it, so I didnt have time to see or test the 3D ( damn ! ).

The tablet was nice, especially if you get it in the bargain smile.gif

The "4K" native looked very good and the RC is significantly less aggressive / more fine-grained in adjustment with UHD signals ( 3840x2160 24P ) ( didnt get time to test in 2K )

Only pulse mode is available in UHD ( dung )

The convergence was stabil and looked okay after 10-20 min.

In high lamp, its make some audible noise, if you are close to it ( not a problem IMO - but audible - allmost like the 1000ES, when you put that in high lamp and "high altitude" mode ) - on low, it was very silent - like the 1000ES in high lamp mode ( but NOT "high altitude" on ).

Its small and cute biggrin.gif ( compared to the 1000 ) - a very nice and practical size.

but strangely enough, it worked a little more "plastic-like" than 1000éren, despite both cabinets are built in plastic (?) confused.gif

The sharpness / focus is absolutly NOT in the same level as the 1000, the White letters in the menu had foggy areas around the letters / "defocused edges", who couldnt get adjusted away - the 1000 is quite sharp and there is no fog around the white letters there - that must be the better lense. ( Z10K - do you not see that in your 600 versus 1000 ? ) - but not a problem in a "normal" Picture on sitting distance

Didnt see any CA on it.




Just a quick first impression of the 500ES versus the 1000ES smile.gif

dj
post #1599 of 2855
Has anyone noticed lip sync issues with this fine PJ? I've had the 500 since early December and I've fixed the issue, but at first I had some real audio sync issues. First of all, nothing changed in my set up (except the PJ). I upgraded from the old Sony Pearl, and boy, what an upgrade that is! But I've never, not once, noticed any audio sync issues with my old set-up. The only other change was a new hdmi cable...but I had the same sync issues with whichever cable I used.

I managed to fix the issue by sending the signal at 60 hz ....but, at first I was sending bluray at 1080 p/24hz, and the audio wasn't synced. It was even worse when I sent the HD-DVD signal at its native 1080i.

Any thoughts? I wonder if the lag issue identified in some earlier posts might be a factor? Also, whenever they do allow the 4K server to work in Canada, I'm worried that I might see the audio sync issue rear it's head I again if I monkey around with the 1080/60 that seems to have solved the problem.
post #1600 of 2855
Quote:
Originally Posted by M_Coupe View Post

After much deliberation, I finally pulled the trigger and ordered a VW600ES (should be here tomorrow!!) Other than cost, the major hold-up was the high input lag.. my VW85 and the VW100 before it were pretty great in this regard; it's the only area where I'm taking a (potentially huge) step backwards.

I decided that I'd try to live w/ the lag, and if it was bad enough, I'd get a known-fast (sub 20ms) LCD or DLP projector as a secondary display for gaming-only. That said, I was wondering if anyone here had been able to find settings that were more responsive than the 97-106ms lag I've seen in reviews. Perhaps with a 1:1 source? Service menu setting? Do any other VW600ES owners care about the lag? biggrin.gif

My projector, the Epson 6010 is supposed to have bad input lag but I don't notice it. I am a big gamer and play the FPSs and still kick ass as much as I did with all my other projectors.
post #1601 of 2855
Does anyone know if the puck and tablet can be bought as a package deal? A few weeks till Super Bowl and I need something to do with my 600ES plus Verizon gets away on the cheap with my 100/75 plan that we consume less than 1% of. I guess I could go peek around in the 1000/1000ES thread and convince myself to spend the vacation money on an upgrade.
post #1602 of 2855
Quote:
Originally Posted by d.j. View Post


The sharpness / focus is absolutly NOT in the same level as the 1000, the White letters in the menu had foggy areas around the letters / "defocused edges", who couldnt get adjusted away - the 1000 is quite sharp and there is no fog around the white letters there - that must be the better lense. ( Z10K - do you not see that in your 600 versus 1000 ? ) - but not a problem in a "normal" Picture on sitting distance

Didnt see any CA on it.




Just a quick first impression of the 500ES versus the 1000ES smile.gif

dj

 

I'm not sure if the vw500es you saw was a unit working properly... You might need to check a recent unit, mid or later January which are most likely to be the "fixed" version of the vw500es.

While I agree it's not on the same level of the 1000es, but blurry menu letters sounds fishy to me. VW600es on the other hands seems to have had better QC and no one is complaining, but in Europe, Sony "half suggest" the users to use prime support to have a new unit if you bought it before January...

post #1603 of 2855
Lip sync is caused by the longer processing time it takes for video, than audio. Pure and simple, It is not cable related. Its a beast of any video processing you do in the chain included that in the source component and on through. But not cable. the cable length do cause some delay but it is not lessened by a change in cables if the same length and even wiith length the delay caused by the length is very very very small.

What's the fix? You need to delay the audio, either in your audio processor, many have adjustable delay, or you need to add an audio delay box.
post #1604 of 2855
BCJ. My explanation assume that you will not want to use the lens memory features of the Sony. But you can use them by setting and memorizing a set up using the 1.85 aspect for 1,85 movies, and the 2.35 aspect for 2.35 movies and higher. When you use these aspect ratios on the Sony, you then use the 1.89 and 1.89 edge markers, to fill the screen horizontally. You will be scaling your 1920 x 1080 or 3840 x 2160 (puck) sources images by a factor larger than a pure integer multiplier and I think this affects sharpness but other theorists may disagree. its what I see. You will then get no black bars for 1.85, and smaller ones for 2.35. I would start for 2.35 by using a 2.40 source aspect. But remember when you watch either a 1.85 or a 2.35 or higher, you will have to manually select the lens memory you set up using the other than normal aspects. You can set this up anytime. But I wanted to get you going simply until you start to understand what are you doing better. I will be mostly unavailable for the next 4 days. but I will walk you through it when I get back.
post #1605 of 2855
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thaal View Post

I'm not sure if the vw500es you saw was a unit working properly... You might need to check a recent unit, mid or later January which are most likely to be the "fixed" version of the vw500es.
While I agree it's not on the same level of the 1000es, but blurry menu letters sounds fishy to me. VW600es on the other hands seems to have had better QC and no one is complaining, but in Europe, Sony "half suggest" the users to use prime support to have a new unit if you bought it before January...




Thaal

This is a unit from mid january, and I dont think there was something wrong with it, the Picture was very fine and Sharp with the UHD signal in generel.

The blurry letters in the menu wasnt that bad ( it couldnt be seen from any normal viewing distance ) , but when standing right NeXT to the screen, you could see some small foggy areas arround the letters ( but that was there not at a touch of, on any 1000ES, I have seen for now )

- but as you say, there should of couse be a difference between them, when considering the Price difference and at that point, I think we can see the different quality off the much more expensive lense on the 1000/1100

all in all, I think the 500/600 looked to be a fantastic projector, at that Price, at this stage and probely the "best" buy projector / quality / Price / allround use , at arround 10K - 15K dollars for now.

Is it "the best projector" - no, I still think the 1000/1100 beat it, but you pay a lot more for the last 5 - 10 %

BTW. I did try to run a auto cal. on it, but it was new ( 0 -2 hours ) , so there was nothing to calibrate smile.gif - it did have a DvE arround 2 and the colors looked very good with the D65 / REC 709 setting.

dj
post #1606 of 2855
Quote:
Originally Posted by d.j. View Post

Thaal



all in all, I think the 500/600 looked to be a fantastic projector, at that Price, at this stage and probely the "best" buy projector / quality / Price / allround use , at arround 10K - 15K dollars for now.

Is it "the best projector" - no, I still think the 1000/1100 beat it, but you pay a lot more for the last 5 - 10 %


It's a nice projector, no doubt. A ton of light output and very good picture quality for the price. There are definitely better projectors available, like a SIM2 Lumis. Most everyone would immediately see the difference if the projectors were side by side demoed against each other.
post #1607 of 2855
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyal Mellor View Post

It's a nice projector, no doubt. A ton of light output and very good picture quality for the price. There are definitely better projectors available, like a SIM2 Lumis. Most everyone would immediately see the difference if the projectors were side by side demoed against each other.

Last night I decided to watch 4K movies. I watched Total Recall and it looked stunning. Honestly, I was thinking how much better can you get from this point. It was absolutely stunning like jaw dropping stunning. Like where you end up saying wow many times.

You are saying that on a side by side comparison, SIM2 Lumis will clearly show the difference??? Are you comparing regular blue ray or 4K?
post #1608 of 2855
I think he's talking about general picture quality aspects and not necessarily what type of content being viewed.
post #1609 of 2855
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

I think he's talking about general picture quality aspects and not necessarily what type of content being viewed.

So to be precise, he is comparing a 1080P movie played on Sim2 vs upscaled version on 600ES?
post #1610 of 2855
You'll have to ask him what he means specifically but because the two have two separate native resolutions I doubt he's taking what resolution the content is as a factor to differentiate the difference in a picture quality aspect.

Things like lens quality, clarity to the image, brightness, ANSI contrast, on/off contrast, motion resolution, ect.. things that remain constant regardless of content type or resolution. I would expect the Sony only has the upper hand over the Lumis with on/off contrast. Not by much either. Cine4home measured an average dynamic contrast of ~56000:1 and the lumis can do roughly 35000:1. In a real world viewing situation that difference is almost trivial. Also, I would expect the much higher ANSI to make up much of that difference when it comes to perceived contrast on all but the darkest of scenes.

The issue with 4k is that to get maximum benefit you'll need a very large image. Joe Kane recommends a 10' wide screen minimum to achieve that. That's not to say there's no benefit for 4K at smaller screen sizes, but once you go smaller you diminish the extra potential image resolution when trying to compare it to a 1080p image. On a smaller screen I think you'd be surprised at how well something like a Lumis looks compared to your Sony when viewing the same resolution material, even if it needs to be down scaled to 1080p for the Lumis.
Edited by Seegs108 - 1/23/14 at 2:29pm
post #1611 of 2855
Sorry for late reply Sheraz, I'm using a Falcon Screens 16:9 133" (diagnol) acoustic screen. Great company. Fantastic material. I have to get around 4-5ft from the screen to actually notice the weave pattern. Perfect for 4k.
post #1612 of 2855
Hi
My first post. Thanks for all the advice on the Sony 600. I ended up buying one and the last three days have been terrific.

Did anyone come up with better 3-D glasses than the Sony TDG BT500s? Reviews on them have been so so.

Thanks
post #1613 of 2855
Quote:
Originally Posted by SherazNJ View Post

Last night I decided to watch 4K movies. I watched Total Recall and it looked stunning. Honestly, I was thinking how much better can you get from this point. It was absolutely stunning like jaw dropping stunning. Like where you end up saying wow many times.

You are saying that on a side by side comparison, SIM2 Lumis will clearly show the difference??? Are you comparing regular blue ray or 4K?

If you download the short Watermelon Magic, you will really like the image from this 4K short.
Reply
Reply
post #1614 of 2855
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

You'll have to ask him what he means specifically but because the two have two separate native resolutions I doubt he's taking what resolution the content is as a factor to differentiate the difference in a picture quality aspect.

Things like lens quality, clarity to the image, brightness, ANSI contrast, on/off contrast, motion resolution, ect.. things that remain constant regardless of content type or resolution. I would expect the Sony only has the upper hand over the Lumis with on/off contrast. Not by much either. Cine4home measured an average dynamic contrast of ~56000:1 and the lumis can do roughly 35000:1. In a real world viewing situation that difference is almost trivial. Also, I would expect the much higher ANSI to make up much of that difference when it comes to perceived contrast on all but the darkest of scenes.

The issue with 4k is that to get maximum benefit you'll need a very large image. Joe Kane recommends a 10' wide screen minimum to achieve that. That's not to say there's no benefit for 4K at smaller screen sizes, but once you go smaller you diminish the extra potential image resolution when trying to compare it to a 1080p image. On a smaller screen I think you'd be surprised at how well something like a Lumis looks compared to your Sony when viewing the same resolution material, even if it needs to be down scaled to 1080p for the Lumis.

I have not tested the VW500/600 against the Lumis, but I have tested the VW1000 against the Lumis 3DS and in 2D it was no contest. The VW1000 won in every aspect that makes up a good picture except from brightness, in 3D it was another matter. So I think the VW500/600 will be a better 2D projector than the Lumis.smile.gif
post #1615 of 2855
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andreas21 View Post

I have not tested the VW500/600 against the Lumis, but I have tested the VW1000 against the Lumis 3DS and in 2D it was no contest. The VW1000 won in every aspect that makes up a good picture except from brightness, in 3D it was another matter. So I think the VW500/600 will be a better 2D projector than the Lumis.smile.gif


I don't expect that comment to go down to well around here….Lumis owners I find tend to be very defensive of that $$$projector purchase.
post #1616 of 2855
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeycalda View Post

I don't expect that comment to go down to well around here….Lumis owners I find tend to be very defensive of that $$$projector purchase.

I know that, but to me this is the truth and we were three videofiles in the same room testing this and we all saw the same. I know people don´t belive me, but they have not tested them side by side. The owner of the Lumis even told us there was something wrong with the calibration after the test so I let him recalibrate it and this was done by a pro, then we did the test again with the same results. The VW1000 had better blacks(by far), more dynamic picture, cleaner picture, sharper, more 3D felling in 2D pictures, more clarity and so on. To me DLP is only if you need a really big screen and need very high lumen or if you are a 3D fanatic (I am not), the DLP days are over until they come up with something new. I have owned a couple DLP´s in 2005/6 and loved them then, but today there is something better. Of course there are things DLP is very good at like uniformity, motion resoulution, ansi contrast (the VW1000 breaths them down the neck with about 600:1) and you can get some very high lumen versjons and LED lightsource, but when it comes to pure 2D picturequality I find the VW1000 and the top JVC´s to be better than even the highest end DLP´s.
post #1617 of 2855
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andreas21 View Post

I have not tested the VW500/600 against the Lumis, but I have tested the VW1000 against the Lumis 3DS and in 2D it was no contest. The VW1000 won in every aspect that makes up a good picture except from brightness, in 3D it was another matter. So I think the VW500/600 will be a better 2D projector than the Lumis.smile.gif

You can't make that comparison. The 1000ES performance is a decent step up. 56000:1 versus 950000:1 Dynamic contrast. 650:1 vs 410:1 ANSI. A much nicer lens, brighter image. I still believe the lumis would put out a nicer image.
post #1618 of 2855
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

You can't make that comparison. The 1000ES performance is a decent step up. 56000:1 versus 950000:1 Dynamic contrast. 650:1 vs 410:1 ANSI. A much nicer lens, brighter image. I still believe the lumis would put out a nicer image.

I will test the VW500 side by side against the VW1000 in the nearest future and then I will se if the VW500 is closer to the VW1000 than the Lumis 3DS, it is along time since I did the Lumis vs VW1000 test, but I think I can come up with a conclution even though.
post #1619 of 2855
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeycalda View Post

I don't expect that comment to go down to well around here….Lumis owners I find tend to be very defensive of that $$$projector purchase.

I know that, but to me this is the truth and we were three videofiles in the same room testing this and we all saw the same. I know people don´t belive me, but they have not tested them side by side. The owner of the Lumis even told us there was something wrong with the calibration after the test so I let him recalibrate it and this was done by a pro, then we did the test again with the same results. The VW1000 had better blacks(by far), more dynamic picture, cleaner picture, sharper, more 3D felling in 2D pictures, more clarity and so on. To me DLP is only if you need a really big screen and need very high lumen or if you are a 3D fanatic (I am not), the DLP days are over until they come up with something new. I have owned a couple DLP´s in 2005/6 and loved them then, but today there is something better. Of course there are things DLP is very good at like uniformity, motion resoulution, ansi contrast (the VW1000 breaths them down the neck with about 600:1) and you can get some very high lumen versjons and LED lightsource, but when it comes to pure 2D picturequality I find the VW1000 and the top JVC´s to be better than even the highest end DLP´s.

If I were in the market for a new top end projector today, I'd probably buy a VW600 or 1100. I love my Lumis, but it is almost 5 years old at this point. I was impressed with the picture the VW600 threw at Cedia. I even thought about buying one myself. When I got home and watched Oblivion on my Lumis, I decided that while the new Sonys were better, they weren't better enough to have to upgrade yet. But, if I had to buy today, the 600 and 1100 would be top contenders.
post #1620 of 2855
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

If you download the short Watermelon Magic, you will really like the image from this 4K short.

I did watch it today and it was awesome. If anyone wants to see black level performance of this projector, I would recommend In Saturn's Ring . Its I think a 4:30 mins clip and has a lot of black background.
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