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Official Sony VPL-VW500ES / VW600ES 4K Projector Thread - Page 65

post #1921 of 2792
Quote:
Originally Posted by reanimator View Post


So in other words, we still have zero confirmation of a 500es being imported into the US and working with the server?

I can confirm this.  I have a 500es, imported in from Canada, working fine in Seattle with the Puck...

post #1922 of 2792

Does anyone have the IPControl codes anywhere?  It looks like a lot of the codes from the 1000ES work with this, but the Wake On Lan does not.  Has anyone got that to work (the WOL)?

post #1923 of 2792
I could not get the wake on LAN to work either. frown.gif
Edited by SOWK - 2/5/14 at 4:05am
post #1924 of 2792
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

With my JVC not only could I not fill the screen, I also needed the added light from the lens on my low gain 0.85 screen. smile.gif

Classic example of penis envy (mah screen is bigga than urs) in theater design. But ah wanted a bigga penis. Let's see. A small room throw wise. Too big a screen (that's the penis catch up part). Too low a screen gain, but required by wanting acoustical transparency and operating at short throw because of too large a screen for the room, once again caused by penis envy. Too small a projector light wise for the screen. So needed to step up and purchase a brighter projector. And now we need breast implants which you previously purchased, an additional lens to stretch things with all the nasties caused by a second lens, to fill the too big sweater, whoops screen. You could have purchased a smaller screen to start with. Oh yea, and no one makes the right plate so you had to make it yourself. Perfect.

WRONG.

Simple solution, put in a smaller screen or mask the old one off a bit.

More complex. You were a builder. modify the room, put an addition on the house, or build a new one or move. Something like this requires an appropriate solution and not a compromise with PQ negatives. smile.gif
Edited by mark haflich - 2/5/14 at 5:45am
post #1925 of 2792
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe-M View Post

Does anyone have the IPControl codes anywhere?  It looks like a lot of the codes from the 1000ES work with this, but the Wake On Lan does not.  Has anyone got that to work (the WOL)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SOWK View Post

I could not get the wake on LAN to work either. frown.gif

According to the protocol manual for the 500ES, it can't be started using PJ Talk but needs the remote, so you might want to use a remote emulation code.


4-1-2. PJTalk
By using PJ Talk, it is possible to communicate with PROJECTOR over Ethernet network. Both of set and get method are provided.
This protocol is set to ON by default.
n
This model cannot be started using PJ Talk. Use the remote start.
post #1926 of 2792
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Classic example of penis envy (mah screen is bigga than urs) in theater design. But ah wanted a bigga penis. Let's see. A small room throw wise. Too big a screen (that's the penis catch up part). Too low a screen gain, but required by wanting acoustical transparency and operating at short throw because of too large a screen for the room, once again caused by penis envy. Too small a projector light wise for the screen. So needed to step up and purchase a brighter projector. And now we need breast implants which you previously purchased, an additional lens to stretch things with all the nasties caused by a second lens, to fill the too big sweater, whoops screen. You could have purchased a smaller screen to start with. Oh yea, and no one makes the right plate so you had to make it yourself. Perfect.

WRONG.

Simple solution, put in a smaller screen or mask the old one off a bit.

More complex. You were a builder. modify the room, put an addition on the house, or build a new one or move. Something like this requires an appropriate solution and not a compromise with PQ negatives. smile.gif

o.O
Not... sure... how.... serious. Either way, Mark, you are one odd duck! biggrin.gif
post #1927 of 2792
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

Some of us have shorter throw distances to contend with. I use an A-lens to allow for a larger/wider 2:35:1 image than I could get just zooming. The Sony has smaller zoom ration than my JVC, so I'd lose even more size
if I didn't employ my A-lens.

Same here. The projector alone using zoom, can't fill my screen and I can't increase the throw in this room.

If I wanted a bigger 2.35:1 screen I'd need to use a lens too. But, with my short 14' throw, the lens distortion from not being in the anamorphic lenses " sweet spot " would out weight any enjoyment of a bigger screen.
post #1928 of 2792
Quote:
Originally Posted by M_Coupe View Post

o.O
Not... sure... how.... serious. Either way, Mark, you are one odd duck! biggrin.gif

Knowing Mark... Very serious... smile.gif
post #1929 of 2792
Wrong. I am joking with my good friend Mike G. It will look great and probably already does.
post #1930 of 2792
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Classic example of penis envy (mah screen is bigga than urs) in theater design. But ah wanted a bigga penis. Let's see. A small room throw wise. Too big a screen (that's the penis catch up part). Too low a screen gain, but required by wanting acoustical transparency and operating at short throw because of too large a screen for the room, once again caused by penis envy. Too small a projector light wise for the screen. So needed to step up and purchase a brighter projector. And now we need breast implants which you previously purchased, an additional lens to stretch things with all the nasties caused by a second lens, to fill the too big sweater, whoops screen. You could have purchased a smaller screen to start with. Oh yea, and no one makes the right plate so you had to make it yourself. Perfect.

WRONG.

Simple solution, put in a smaller screen or mask the old one off a bit.

More complex. You were a builder. modify the room, put an addition on the house, or build a new one or move. Something like this requires an appropriate solution and not a compromise with PQ negatives. smile.gif

But there is always more to this. Viewing distance wise, my screen is fine. I view a 92" diagonal 16:9 from 9.5' and a 107" wide 2.40 from the same distance. Many would not consider that a large screen and with a viewing distance to height ratio of 2.56 I am well within standards. smile.gif
An HT system is not just about video. If I go smaller and use AT, then my front speaker spacing is too close together. If I go with a smaller non-AT screen and place the mains outside my screen, then I have shoved the right and left mains into the corners. Also it would mean the center would have to be placed very close to the floor, giving me a lot of floor bounce. My mains and center have a front baffle of 14.5" x 28". So while the smaller screen would allow the use of zooming, it would hurt the audio side of the equation. Performance wise I like a balanced system, for audio and video. I don't have a broken subwoofer in my room that has been like that for years. biggrin.gif

Forgot to add. I do have a masking system, but only for the sides and I use it for scope 4K content when I zoom. Since that is the only way I can view 4K content off of the Sony server. Not aware of a 4-way masking system for a curved screen and I doubt I will be changing my screen anytime soon. Another advantage to a curved screen, less light scatter on the side walls and more even brightness reflected back at me, the viewer. smile.gif








Added
Mark does have more than one sub. smile.gif
Edited by AV Science Sales 5 - 2/5/14 at 11:59am
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post #1931 of 2792
Quote:
I don't have a broken subwoofer in my room that has been like that for years.

OUCH !!
post #1932 of 2792
Mark just wants everyone to have the best experience possible. I know he was "joking", but there are always things that can be done to improve a system.

Some of it may not be possible due to money / time / space avail / room / etc...
Edited by SOWK - 2/5/14 at 11:54am
post #1933 of 2792
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post

If I wanted a bigger 2.35:1 screen I'd need to use a lens too. But, with my short 14' throw, the lens distortion from not being in the anamorphic lenses " sweet spot " would out weight any enjoyment of a bigger screen.

Not all A-lens have a fixed throw distance. Some have focus adjustment. If you are talking pincushion, then the only cure for that is long throw or curved screen. To completely cure it with a curved screen requires a specific curve based on throw distance. Actually long throw does not cure it, only curved screen can cure it. Long throw just minimizes it to the point that it is no longer a real issue.
Edited by AV Science Sales 5 - 2/5/14 at 12:00pm
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post #1934 of 2792
Quote:
If I wanted a bigger 2.35:1 screen I'd need to use a lens too. But, with my short 14' throw, the lens distortion from not being in the anamorphic lenses " sweet spot " would out weight any enjoyment of a bigger screen.

Would I need an A-lens with this projector with 14.5 ft throw, 105" wide screen?
post #1935 of 2792
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsteak View Post

Would I need an A-lens with this projector with 14.5 ft throw, 105" wide screen?

No the zoom method works fine for that size screen from that throw distance.
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post #1936 of 2792
Today I watched Despicable Me 2. At the beginning I could see some ghosting. Then I realized that Motion Flow was on High Smooth. It turned it on low and it took care most of ghosting but still there was some. Then I turned it off and ghosting was gone. Turning motion flow off increased brightness (we all need that in 3D specially) and also took care of ghosting. Turning of motion flow at first I could see a little flicker but after like 3 minutes I got used to it and didn't feel like it was there. I didn't see any ghosting or any issue. Brightness wise, I was satisfied. It a 16:9 movie and therefore it was enough brightness that I didn't feel the need anywhere that I needed more light.

A quick question about Reality Creation. This is from a few reviews
Quote:
You can view this feature like some form of detail enhancement feature or even work like a Darblet, but all I can say is Reality Creation does improve on clarity and enhance details without introducing rings or video noise to the overall picture quality. This is not your average "sharpening" feature. On top of that, it also make subtle changes to the colors and overall contrast that bring out a whole new level of clarity to the entire presentation.
Quote:
Reality Creation, on the other hand, is not upscaling. Reality Creation is a detail enhancement system similar to Panasonic's Detail Clarity or Epson's Super Resolution. It makes the picture appear sharper, clearer, and higher in detail. You can apply Reality Creation to the picture regardless of where the scaling is performed.

Turning it to max (100), I didn't notice any image noise. I even picked scenes where I can see pixels shining and turning off RC didn't make a difference in these pixels shining any less. In other words, I didn't notice any image noise using RC even at 100. So my question is: Why one wouldn't want to use RC at 100?

Here is another confusion. Again from a review
Quote:
In conclusion, this is a brilliant 2D projector in every sense of the word. The Reality Creation algorithm created by SONY is an astounding breakthrough which enhances your existing bluray titles to near 4K quality effortlessly. It is even better when your source (bluray player) supports 4K pass through to the projector for Reality Creation to do its “movie-magic”

I use PS3 and it has no 4K pass through. What does it mean then? Is PS3 not letting RC do its magic?
Edited by SherazNJ - 2/5/14 at 6:45pm
post #1937 of 2792
The bottom line is that if your scalar externally is better than the scalar in the projector, you can feed 4k in externally and then still use RC. The best will be if you feed native UHD or 4K in externally. It is likely that the projector scalar is probably better than the 4K scalar in a bluray player or receiver. However, I think when you become a better observer than you are now, you will find the best picture to be with RC, both settings, set rather low. You will also find that a no ring scalar (the Lumagen) will be better than the Sony built in scalar or other external scalars. The ringing caused by the Sony built in scalar introduced as a way on enhancing contrast transitions andother external scalars adversely interacts with the RC because it acts adversely on the ringing as well.

Please do not take my better observer comments the wrong way.

Sony provided RC settings for off, and 0 to 100 for both resolution enhancement and noise filtering. Do you think Sony might have put the controls in for a reason. Or do you think they should have just had a toggle for off and full? try looking at the presets Sony chose toe reference and film 1, the two modes for serious watching. Notice what these controls are set for RC wise. Most seasoned viewers, many of us have had 1000ES for as long as 2 years, have determined that both RC settings should be set low before nasties to seasoned viewers become noticeable. using any scaling that introduces ringing, including the internal Sony scalar, makes accurately setting RC almost a crap shoot. Inputting native UHD or 4K or using a non ringing scalar (Lumagen), make setting RC relatively easy. And here it can be seen that low level settings work best. Just think about the filter setting alone. Do you think it is a good thing to employ massive amounts of high frequency filtering can possibly be a good thing? Just food for thought.
Edited by mark haflich - 2/5/14 at 8:55pm
post #1938 of 2792
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

The bottom line is that if your scalar externally is better than the scalar in the projector, you can feed 4k in externally and then still use RC. The best will be if you feed native UHD or 4K in externally. It is likely that the projector scalar is probably better than the 4K scalar in a bluray player or receiver. However, I think when you become a better observer than you are now, you will find the best picture to be with RC, both settings, set rather low. You will also find that a no ring scalar (the Lumagen) will be better than the Sony built in scalar or other external scalars. The ringing caused by the Sony built in scalar introduced as a way on enhancing contrast transitions andother external scalars adversely interacts with the RC because it acts adversely on the ringing as well.

Please do not take my better observer comments the wrong way.

Sony provided RC settings for off, and 0 to 100 for both resolution enhancement and noise filtering. Do you think Sony might have put the controls in for a reason. Or do you think they should have just had a toggle for off and full? try looking at the presets Sony chose toe reference and film 1, the two modes for serious watching. Notice what these controls are set for RC wise. Most seasoned viewers, many of us have had 1000ES for as long as 2 years, have determined that both RC settings should be set low before nasties to seasoned viewers become noticeable. using any scaling that introduces ringing, including the internal Sony scalar, makes accurately setting RC almost a crap shoot. Inputting native UHD or 4K or using a non ringing scalar (Lumagen), make setting RC relatively easy. And here it can be seen that low level settings work best. Just think about the filter setting alone. Do you think it is a good thing to employ massive amounts of high frequency filtering can possibly be a good thing? Just food for thought.

Can you please explain what ringing in scaling is?
It has been my experience as well with other devices that I go rather aggressive with it and as the time goes by, I settle for less and the one that feels more natural.
One more observation I recently had is that watching movies on NetFlix look amazing. I am watching using PS3 as well. I watched 4 movies in past few days on Netflix and they all look stunning. I'd say even better than blue ray. I said better because they were very clear and no image noise and also a crisp image. I thought that Blue ray movies will look better (Aside from Oblivion). But movies I watched on netflix looked amazing.
post #1939 of 2792
Quote:
Originally Posted by SherazNJ View Post

Can you please explain what ringing in scaling is?
It has been my experience as well with other devices that I go rather aggressive with it and as the time goes by, I settle for less and the one that feels more natural.
One more observation I recently had is that watching movies on NetFlix look amazing. I am watching using PS3 as well. I watched 4 movies in past few days on Netflix and they all look stunning. I'd say even better than blue ray. I said better because they were very clear and no image noise and also a crisp image. I thought that Blue ray movies will look better (Aside from Oblivion). But movies I watched on netflix looked amazing.




Take e.g. a Black letter ( text ) on a grey background and then turn the RC resolution up ( or you can do the same with the sharpness control ) , at a point there will begin to come a White outlining between the Black and the grey ( coursing you eyes to better see the "transformation" from Black to White, istead off to grey = bigger contast / "sharper" / easyer for you eyes to see ) - thats ringing, and is adding something who isnt in the signal from start.( artificially generated)

with a White letter on say a grey or blue etc. background it will ad a dark/Black outlining arround the letter.

The point with the RC or the sharpness is to adjust it so high as posible, without any ringing / noise reinforcing ( its allmost always very low or even off ) IMO , but some even like it turned up. so der is visible ringing and the Picture "seems like" sharpere - your choice smile.gif


dj
post #1940 of 2792
In the context of ringing, it must be remembered that even with RC set to off, if the source is not UHD or 4K, the Sony internal scalar will have to scale it and that scalar deliberately introduces a modest amount of ringing as a way of increasing sharpness to your eyes (but actually decreasing sharpness) by obscuring high frequency detail at transitions edges and replacing the higher end of the transition with a white halo. The illusion of sharpness can be increased even further by cranking up the sharpness control in the picture menu. Notice that it is defaulted to a low level, 10 or slightly above depending on the mode. Even basic primers on video calibrations for housewives say set the sharpness using one of several test patterns on the test disc included with the primer so that you can not see halos forming. Now we have our beloved RC, added on top of external or internal scaling. Another control, actually 2 controls, to let us really muck things up. There are no test patterns to use unlike there are for setting the sharpness control, and practically no guidance on what to look for in setting the two controls. But basically as you crank the first one up you create noise which needs filtering by the second. And filters are non discriminatory filtering the good and the bad and resulting in uglies. RC not only introduces additional ringing if turned up other than a tiny bit as well as it can't discriminate between real video info and ringing when it acts on the image after scaling.
post #1941 of 2792
Quote:
Originally Posted by SherazNJ View Post

Can you please explain what ringing in scaling is?
It has been my experience as well with other devices that I go rather aggressive with it and as the time goes by, I settle for less and the one that feels more natural.
One more observation I recently had is that watching movies on NetFlix look amazing. I am watching using PS3 as well. I watched 4 movies in past few days on Netflix and they all look stunning. I'd say even better than blue ray. I said better because they were very clear and no image noise and also a crisp image. I thought that Blue ray movies will look better (Aside from Oblivion). But movies I watched on netflix looked amazing.

Since a picture is worth a 1,000 words: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ringing_artifacts
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post #1942 of 2792
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

Since a picture is worth a 1,000 words: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ringing_artifacts



Thank you Mike rolleyes.gif, couldnt you have posted that before I did spend an half hour, trying to explain, what you show a lot better biggrin.gif

dj
post #1943 of 2792
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

Since a picture is worth a 1,000 words: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ringing_artifacts

Yep. That did it very well.
Quote:
Thank you Mike rolleyes.gif, couldnt you have posted that before I did spend an half hour, trying to explain, what you show a lot better biggrin.gif

dj

dj thanks for all your efforts as well.
Same goes to mark who is as always very knowledgeable and I have to read his posts 2-3 times to get most out of it smile.gif
post #1944 of 2792
Has anybody measured input lag in Gaming mode?

Even in gaming mode I can perceive certain lag which makes playing action games very difficult.
post #1945 of 2792
Quote:
Originally Posted by antorsae View Post

Has anybody measured input lag in Gaming mode?

Even in gaming mode I can perceive certain lag which makes playing action games very difficult.

Multiple review sources place it between 100 and 120ms. Pretty awful for any gaming that requires responsive controls frown.gif
post #1946 of 2792
Quote:
Originally Posted by M_Coupe View Post

Multiple review sources place it between 100 and 120ms. Pretty awful for any gaming that requires responsive controls frown.gif

While we're on the subject.... I'm still hoping that feeding it native res (via gaming PC once HDMI 2.0 video cards are released) will provide acceptable response times, but nobody seems to have tested response times @ 1:1 resolution. It seems almost certain that response times would be significantly better if the scaler were completely bypassed, but there's no way to bypass the scaler when feeding it 1080p (and if there were, it would look stupid filling only 1/4th of the display anyway).

I also have to wonder if a firmware update for "game" mode might not be possible. The Sony 4k XBR LCD TV's all have terrible lag times for most display modes, but they get a passable ~50ms on game mode. It seems like an oversight that the projector's "game" mode offers NO performance benefits while Sony TVs' game mode does. Perhaps a simple bug/oversight?

Why do I think there's more performance to be had? From what I can tell (just looking at test patterns), it always does some form of multisampling when scaling to its native resolution, and that's certainly more expensive than just "doubling" H+V. If the scaler is not some fixed-behavior ASIC, then it should be possible for them to introduce a simple algorithm that just does pixel doubling (both H+V) (many 30" 2560x1600 monitors without built-in scalers can do this same type of rudimentary remapping with 0 additional latency when fed 1280x800)

Such a shame that the projector has this one glaring fault... but I'll buy a $800-$1000 low-lag DLP as a secondary gaming-only display if I have to; there's no way I could ever give up the 600ES's staggeringly good performance on movie/video content!
post #1947 of 2792
I am embarrassed to ask but neither I nor a friend can locate the port on the Sony tablet for inserting the charging cable. The diagram on the instruction shows a location but there is nothing there !! Since it is the only way to control the 4K media server we are stuck???
post #1948 of 2792
I had the same trouble, It is on the bottom left and it is covered by a water tight cover so you can submerge the tablet in your hot tub. Look for it and pry the tab open. It will stay attached.
post #1949 of 2792
Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post

I am embarrassed to ask but neither I nor a friend can locate the port on the Sony tablet for inserting the charging cable. The diagram on the instruction shows a location but there is nothing there !! Since it is the only way to control the 4K media server we are stuck???

Yep. Bottom left. One inch from the corner. If you look real close on the back side, you will see a slight dimple to catch your finger nail on it to open.
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post #1950 of 2792
Quote:
Originally Posted by M_Coupe View Post

Such a shame that the projector has this one glaring fault... but I'll buy a $800-$1000 low-lag DLP as a secondary gaming-only display if I have to; there's no way I could ever give up the 600ES's staggeringly good performance on movie/video content!

I'm in the same exact boat as you. Do you have any contenders or will you wait for the firmware from Sony first?
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