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Official Sony VPL-VW500ES / VW600ES 4K Projector Thread - Page 4

post #91 of 2815
Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

Yes, Rich, this is what I was suggesting. I can zoom to a 144" wide pic in my room that is 17ft deep. And the 1000ES is by far quieter than any JVC I've had.

Got it. That's amazing.

Since I've switched to seriously considering the new Sony 4K all sorts of questions are popping into my head, and now this one:

Since I zoom so often and adjust the image to new sizes within my 4-way masking, the JVCs have worked amazing. First, they have a nice lens pattern that comes on for zooming, which outlines all the common aspect ratios.
Secondly, the zoom control is fine enough - though not perfect - to pretty easily nudge the image into place, both in terms of the zoom control and the vertical shift control.

How sensitive or finely controllable is the zoom on your Sony?
post #92 of 2815
Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

Oh, now I get Bill's comment.

Thanks for the quick calculation: that's cool that it could fill my screen (and you got my throw distance right).

To answer Bill: the VW1000ES is too large and heavy for my projector lift. Hence, possible interest in the smaller new Sony.

I keep everybody's throw distance on file. biggrin.gif
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post #93 of 2815
A little black book of throw distances. Amazing!
post #94 of 2815
Hey Mike, can you ship Sony to Canada? I know you said you can't with JVC anymore but I'm thinking this may be a possibility.......
post #95 of 2815
Hmm...I'd asked earilier if one could set a desired brightness and Conan48 replied "yes it has a manual iris too."

But I was just reading the Home Theater mag review of the Sony VW1000 in which Tom Norton mentions that "using the projector’s manual iris (although that defeats the dynamic-iris feature,"
Does anyone know if that's also the case with the new VW600ES? It would be a bummer having to choose between the brightness I liked or getting the benefit of the dynamic iris.

(I believe the new JVCs allow control of both).
post #96 of 2815
Harkness. Your question has an intuitively obvious answer. An adjustable fixed iris is not a dynamic iris. You set it to a fixed size. The gamma is fixed also though adjustable too. A dynamic iris is not a fixed iris. Depending on the settings available for the dynamic iris, iris 1, 2 or 3 I believe with the 600ES, a variable iris and gamma come into play. The dynamic iris operating system reads the frame or frames and depending on the readings changes the iris opening and adjust the gamma.. When the iris is closed down, the whites are boosted. Depending on how err intelligent the iris operating system is and the settings one has available for the user t adjust you may be able to trade off one may be able to lower the ultimate black level and/or increase the brightness. The trade offs are white clipping and the visability or iris artifacts. The speed of the iris and gamma changing may be adjustable too with a higher speed perhaps making pumping more or less viablet
post #97 of 2815
Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

Hey Mike, can you ship Sony to Canada? I know you said you can't with JVC anymore but I'm thinking this may be a possibility.......

Sent you a PM. smile.gif
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post #98 of 2815
I wonder what the answer is in light of that smile.gif ? Is it like asking a pretty woman you are dating whether tonight is the night we are going to seal the deal and she answers you with big fecal eating grin?
post #99 of 2815
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Harkness. Your question has an intuitively obvious answer. An adjustable fixed iris is not a dynamic iris. You set it to a fixed size. The gamma is fixed also though adjustable too. A dynamic iris is not a fixed iris. Depending on the settings available for the dynamic iris, iris 1, 2 or 3 I believe with the 600ES, a variable iris and gamma come into play. The dynamic iris operating system reads the frame or frames and depending on the readings changes the iris opening and adjust the gamma.. When the iris is closed down, the whites are boosted. Depending on how err intelligent the iris operating system is and the settings one has available for the user t adjust you may be able to trade off one may be able to lower the ultimate black level and/or increase the brightness. The trade offs are white clipping and the visability or iris artifacts. The speed of the iris and gamma changing may be adjustable too with a higher speed perhaps making pumping more or less viablet

Thanks Mark,

But as I understand it the new JVCs employ more than one iris, allowing you to manually set a brightness limit, and then the dynamic iris does it's thing within that limit. If I read you correctly, the Sony won't do that so if it's too bright at a certain size it's either live with that brightness to get the benefits of the dynamic iris OR set the iris manually and disengage the dynamic operation. That would be too bad, as I've grown very accustom to varying the image brightness of my JVC dependant upon my image size, but I also want as good black levels as I could get out of a Sony.
post #100 of 2815
The Sony has I think three selectable dynamic iris settings depending on how much brightness one wants. While you have high lighted on important parameter to you, all the DI systems have trade offs and levels of sophistication. The II by JVC is still a work in progress and we will see the final results when the product starts shipping. Then I suspect there will be further improvements in a year. My guess is that it will be very good initially but even better a year from now. Inherently a multiple iris system has advantages of a single iris system as you point out. Particularly with one iris regulating light output from the lamp and other irii in the lens.
post #101 of 2815
Ok, so maybe there is some control of brightness WHILE the DI is engaged?

It's just that sometimes I watch huge, sometimes I watch at 102" diag, and I want be be able to watch some content smaller but not have my eyes seared out. (And, again, it's nice to equalize brightness between image sizes).

Looking at the Cine4home preview, they say:


"Despite the good operation is refined the system from generation to generation and it has this time significantly enhanced: the user can for the first time not only impact on the labor margin of the iris take (Full or Limited), but also determine the brightness, ie individually focus on black level Add or light output. Thus, any home cinema fans will find the perfect room conditions for its taste and balance."


Not totally sure what they are saying there.
post #102 of 2815
I think what they are saying is for the first time the Sony vw500/600es will now allow you to control the brightness level with a slider type bar that's in the menu settings that has the settings for the iris when you want full or limited. I saw it on one of the videos that was posted and will try and find just can't remember which one it was.
post #103 of 2815
The service menu in the 1000ES I think would let you change the peak brightness setting for the DI. My guess is that this has been moved to a slider setting in the user menu but I don't know..
post #104 of 2815
That's exactly right Mark, it looks like it's been moved to the user menu. I found the video showing all of the menus in the vw500 and looks like they explain a lot about the features but unfortunately it's all in German but if you want to see the video just go to YouTube and in the search type in grobitv ifa2013. Then go to the video that's 23:26 long and the menu showing the brightness slider is at the 10:40 mark. Here's a link as well but if it doesn't work then just try what I first typed. http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=83KsdlIEYjU
post #105 of 2815
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadow39 View Post

That's exactly right Mark, it looks like it's been moved to the user menu. I found the video showing all of the menus in the vw500 and looks like they explain a lot about the features but unfortunately it's all in German but if you want to see the video just go to YouTube and in the search type in grobitv ifa2013. Then go to the video that's 23:26 long and the menu showing the brightness slider is at the 10:40 mark. Here's a link as well but if it doesn't work then just try what I first typed. http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=83KsdlIEYjU
Turn on Closed Captions and set them to translate to English. (New YouTube features.)
post #106 of 2815
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadow39 View Post

I think what they are saying is for the first time the Sony vw500/600es will now allow you to control the brightness level with a slider type bar that's in the menu settings that has the settings for the iris when you want full or limited. I saw it on one of the videos that was posted and will try and find just can't remember which one it was.

Thanks for that video!

It does give the impression that you have simultaneous control of both the DI settings and the overall brightness. I just would still hope that using the brightness slider doesn't disable the DI.
post #107 of 2815
Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

Thanks for that video!

It does give the impression that you have simultaneous control of both the DI settings and the overall brightness. I just would still hope that using the brightness slider doesn't disable the DI.

It doesn't.
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post #108 of 2815
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

It doesn't.

Apologies Mike as I just want to make sure your reply refers to my last sentence, not the first.

So, setting the max brightness via the slider does not disable the DI. Correct?

(Thanks).
post #109 of 2815
Ugh, The pricing is soooooo good on the VW1000 right now through AVS. I haven't started my basement yet, and I wasn't planning to till next fall. But I'm on the fence of just buying it and keeping it till I start my project.

Regardless AVS has a repeat customer whenever I decide to buy...
post #110 of 2815
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

The service menu in the 1000ES I think would let you change the peak brightness setting for the DI. My guess is that this has been moved to a slider setting in the user menu but I don't know..

so this won't keep the black level darker by setting the brightness menu option lower? Does it only effect the brightness of the iris (how open it is) and not the blackness of the iris ( howmuch the iris closes)? I was hoping I could set it up to get less light output but a better black level (the iris would be more closed during both peak light output and also more closed during dark scenes)
post #111 of 2815
Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

Apologies Mike as I just want to make sure your reply refers to my last sentence, not the first.

So, setting the max brightness via the slider does not disable the DI. Correct?

(Thanks).

From my understanding, it does not disable the dynamic iris.
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post #112 of 2815
You got it right but you are describing it backwards. Putting the DI on, does not disable it. smile.gif
post #113 of 2815
Well, this projector is looking mighty good but I just realized something about Mike's response to me earlier:
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

He means step up to the VW1000ES. smile.gif
The VW1000ES would be able to throw a 127" wide image from 13'-6", plus minus 2", so I think it would work for you without lens. You would be able to get rid of the pincushion.

Since I was asking about the VW500 I just assumed your calculations were for the VW500 in my set up, but I just noticed you calculated for the 1000.
I can't use the 1000 in my set up (too heavy).

Can you tell me the widest image I could project with the VW500ES from my throw distance of 13'-6"?

As I said, I'd like to get up to a 125" wide scope image. (My JVC only gets to about 118' wide, hence my Panamorph UH480 lens).

But if the 500ES will only throw an image as wide as my JVC, that leads back to my question that I had asked before: Will the VW500ES work with a Panamorph UH480 lens? I know there's skepticism about the actually lens quality for 4K, but I'm just talking about being able to properly employ and position a Panamorph lens with the VW500ES.

Thanks,
post #114 of 2815
Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

Well, this projector is looking mighty good but I just realized something about Mike's response to me earlier:
Since I was asking about the VW500 I just assumed your calculations were for the VW500 in my set up, but I just noticed you calculated for the 1000.
I can't use the 1000 in my set up (too heavy).

Can you tell me the widest image I could project with the VW500ES from my throw distance of 13'-6"?

As I said, I'd like to get up to a 125" wide scope image. (My JVC only gets to about 118' wide, hence my Panamorph UH480 lens).

But if the 500ES will only throw an image as wide as my JVC, that leads back to my question that I had asked before: Will the VW500ES work with a Panamorph UH480 lens? I know there's skepticism about the actually lens quality for 4K, but I'm just talking about being able to properly employ and position a Panamorph lens with the VW500ES.

Thanks,

The VW500ES will not zoom enough to fill your screen. Probably only able to get 119" wide. As for working with your lens, do not know. Someone will have to test to confirm. I know the VW1000ES works without lens.
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post #115 of 2815
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

The VW500ES will not zoom enough to fill your screen. Probably only able to get 119" wide. As for working with your lens, do not know. Someone will have to test to confirm. I know the VW1000ES works without lens.

Mike, do you know the throw ratio of the 600ES lens? I did a quick search and couldn't find an answer.
post #116 of 2815
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

Mike, do you know the throw ratio of the 600ES lens? I did a quick search and couldn't find an answer.

I believe it is 1.38 to 2.8. Pretty much the same as a JVC.
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post #117 of 2815
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

The VW500ES will not zoom enough to fill your screen. Probably only able to get 119" wide. As for working with your lens, do not know. Someone will have to test to confirm. I know the VW1000ES works without lens.

I appreciate it.

Dang. That's too bad. Just when I'd finally been enjoying the full width of my screen with my Panamorph lens. I'll see if the guys from Panamorph have any answers (e.g. based on anyone using the lens with the VW1000 - looks like similar lens housing).

ETA: I just noticed on Panamorph's newly designed web site you can click on the Sony projector model and see options for compatible Panamorph lenses. It looks like the UH480 is in the options.

(And running the numbers it turns out the VW1000 isn't necessarily too heavy for my projector lift after all, but it's still going to be too expensive anyway for me to consider).
Edited by R Harkness - 10/3/13 at 8:43pm
post #118 of 2815
post #119 of 2815
post #120 of 2815
FYI, I haven't tried it myself, so I can't vouch for what the article says.
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