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Advice please ...Bad crossover causing check speaker wires error

post #1 of 11
Thread Starter 
Hello everyone, I've recently upgraded my receiver to a yamaha rx673. During the upgrade process, I've had some trouble which I posted about in the official receiver thread. Without going over everything that we tried over there (because I think I was wrong), I'm pretty sure I've narrowed down the problem to a short being caused only at mid to high volumes (it doesn't happen at lower volumes). My receiver will shut off and say check speaker wires. I have found a certain part of a movie that it will always do it. I have gone through and checked all connections to ensure no stray wires, etc. I've checked the ohms of all speakers in my 5.1 setup and all of them look correct. My center channel doesn't read impedance because of some special reason that the guys at polk audio tech support told me. So now I don't know what to do next. Short of running all new wires through my walls, what would you suggest?

Also: I did unhook all speakers (except my sub) and turn it up loud during the movie and nothing happens.

I thought about trying to plug in one speaker at a time and keep playing the movie over and over to see if the receiver keeps turning off but I didn't really want to risk damaging the receiver like that. Does anyone else have any ideas?

More info. I have a Polk Blackstone TL1 for center and 4 mirage nanosat speakers for the front and rear.
Edited by tacomaguy20 - 9/27/13 at 3:49pm
post #2 of 11
Thread Starter 
So I took some advice I found in another forum about diagnosing early shutoff with Yamaha. Here are the steps.

Yamaha's trouble shooting method for early shut off applies here.

"1, disconnect all of the speaker wires from the back of the receiver.

2, turn the receiver on, and turn the volume control up to about half way. If the receiver stays on, please go to Step 3. If the receiver shuts off right away, the unit will require service. Please consult with your dealer for further assistance.

3, carefully inspect all of the speaker wiring and the connections at the back of each speaker. Remove and reconnect the wiring at the back of each speaker if necessary.

4, re-connect the main speakers only, and test the system. If operation appears normal, turn the power off and re-connect the surround speakers. If it shuts down prematurely, you should have your main speaker system checked.

5, test the system after the surround speakers have been re-connected. If operation appears normal, turn off the power and re-connect the center speaker. If it shuts down prematurely, you should have your surround speakers checked.

6, test the system after the center channel speaker has been re-connected. If operation is normal, you have located and fixed the over-current condition.


If the receiver shuts off prematurely, you should have the center channel speaker checked. Other problems which might cause premature shut off can include using speakers with impedance of less than 4 ohms, an internal problem with the receiver, or a problem with a source component."


I made it to step 4 and it shut off. I only had the front two speakers hooked up. hooked one up at a time and found my front right was causing the shut off. I switched wires and no good. The speaker sounds fine the whole time but is causing my system to shut off. I took it apart and nothing I could tell was wrong except the positive lead looked a little too close to the capacitor. At least I think thats what it is. Moved it away but still causing a problem. I wonder if the capacitor in the speaker is bad. Would that cause a short like problem and cause the receiver to shut off?
post #3 of 11
Thread Starter 
Ok so I was doing some googling and the speaker that is having trouble is one of my mirage nanosat speakers. It sounds good still, like it doesn't sound blown but it is shutting off my receiver and the receiver is giving me the check speaker wires signal. I think this is caused by a bad internal crossover. I found that I can buy a cheap replacement crossover off of Ebay for 20 dollars. Do you think it would be wise to try replacing the crossover instead of the speaker all together? I'd rather not fork over 130 dollars if its not needed. Thanks
post #4 of 11
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tacomaguy20 View Post

Ok so I was doing some googling and the speaker that is having trouble is one of my mirage nanosat speakers. It sounds good still, like it doesn't sound blown but it is shutting off my receiver and the receiver is giving me the check speaker wires signal. I think this is caused by a bad internal crossover. I found that I can buy a cheap replacement crossover off of Ebay for 20 dollars. Do you think it would be wise to try replacing the crossover instead of the speaker all together? I'd rather not fork over 130 dollars if its not needed. Thanks

I guess what I'm really asking is if there is a way to make sure its the crossover?
post #5 of 11
It *really* sounds like a whisker short. (alternately, biwire with jumpers in place and wire polarity different between each pair).

You can narrow it down to an individual speaker by trial an error, but I cannot think of a way to determine it's the crossover as opposed to (say) the speaker coil without testing each component electrically.
post #6 of 11
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryLove View Post

It *really* sounds like a whisker short. (alternately, biwire with jumpers in place and wire polarity different between each pair).

You can narrow it down to an individual speaker by trial an error, but I cannot think of a way to determine it's the crossover as opposed to (say) the speaker coil without testing each component electrically.

I'm sorry I don't know what a whisker short is. I was thinking that I have 3 more of these same speakers, I could just take a crossover out of another one and put it in this one to see if it gets the speaker working again.
post #7 of 11
Thread Starter 
So I took the speaker apart, tested the resistance of the woofer and tweeter and the tweeter was showng no resistance. I took the tweeter out of another one of the nanosats and put it in this one. Hooked it up and everything works. My receiver doesn't shut off. It would seem that the tweeter is my problem and I'm guessing the crossover is ok. Now if only I can find an extra tweeter for these speakers.
post #8 of 11
How old are your speakers? If they're still in warranty then Mirage should honor it and give you a new tweeter. I'm not entirely sure what Jerry means by a whisker short but I think he means that the voice coil may have a piece of winding sticking out and shorting out your tweeter. Just give Mirage a call to get a new tweeter.

http://www.miragespeakers.com/support/
post #9 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by tacomaguy20 View Post

I'm sorry I don't know what a whisker short is. I was thinking that I have 3 more of these same speakers, I could just take a crossover out of another one and put it in this one to see if it gets the speaker working again.

That's when a single strand from stranded speaker wire has come in contact with something it's not supposed to (such as the opposing pole). Any sort of conducting material from one pole to the other will short the amp... but given that there's a non-shorted path, it may only trigger protection at higher volumes.

You can also try following up with this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/t/1477207/speaker-size-power-questions) to see what the OP ended up doing. He never said.
post #10 of 11
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyng_fool View Post

How old are your speakers? If they're still in warranty then Mirage should honor it and give you a new tweeter. I'm not entirely sure what Jerry means by a whisker short but I think he means that the voice coil may have a piece of winding sticking out and shorting out your tweeter. Just give Mirage a call to get a new tweeter.

http://www.miragespeakers.com/support/

I got lucky and someone posted a tweeter on ebay today. I'll go that route first. My speakers are pretty old as I bought them nearly 5 years go. Pretty happy they lasted this long. Definitely not under warranty anymore.
post #11 of 11
If it's less than 5 years they are still under warranty.
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