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Kon-Tiki

post #1 of 21
Thread Starter 
We showed 'Kon-Tiki' in the Booth Bijou Garage Theater tonight. FANTASTIC movie! Everyone loved it!

Unfortunately, we had a technical problem with both the Blu-ray and the DVD... During chapter 11, there's a scene where Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
one of the characters reveals he's brought wire onto the raft
. Right at that scene, when the character Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
begs Thor to please use the wire to bind the raft
, our Pioneer receiver gave an "amp error" and restarted. Once the image and sound came back, the amp errors (and loss of image and sound) continued several more times. Thinking I had a defective Blu-ray, I finally stuck in the DVD to finish watching the movie. But, sure enough, the DVD was similarly afflicted, causing amp errors.

After some experimentation, I discovered that the amp error gets triggered at exactly the same spots during the movie (on both the DVD and Blu-ray) whenever our receiver's master volume is set to -6 db or louder. If I set the volume to -7 db (which is softer than -6 db), there's only one spot where the amp error happens. That same spot triggers the amp error even at -10 db, which is a normal listening level for our living room. At -11 db, the movie will play through without triggering any amp errors.

We've listened to plenty of movies at even louder volumes without having amp errors. In fact, after 'Kon-Tiki', we watched 'Iron Man 3' tonight and it was cranked loud at -3 db for the garage. No amp errors whatsoever.

Some signal in the digital stream of the audio of the 'Kon-Tiki' disc is going too high and tripping the circuit breaker in our Pioneer receiver. I'm going to call Weinstein and/or Anchor Bay to complain about the problem.

In the meantime, I'd appreciate it if everyone else that owns the title could listen starting with the scene described above. Just watch about 10 minutes of the movie right after Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
he pulls out rolls of wire and begs Thor to use it
. Try it with your receiver cranked up fairly loud, please.

Thanks!

Mark
post #2 of 21
Thread Starter 
Wow, no love for 'Kon-Tiki'? I'm surprised there wasn't already a thread about the movie. It's an AMAZING movie with stunning cinematography and incredible sound. (Too intense, as described above.) The computer graphic special effects are STUNNING. It rivals 'Life of Pi' in that respect! In fact, I personally think it surpasses 'Life of Pi' because there were some elements of Pi that I could tell were CG. No so with 'Kon-Tiki'!

I sure hope someone else has invested in this wonderful movie and can give it a relatively loud listen to see if their receiver/amp handles it OK.

Mark
post #3 of 21
I didn't have any issues playing it with bitstream audio.

I thought it was reasonably entertaining, but the story is pretty old and we all know how it comes out. I also thought they sugar-coated the endless hardships faced on the journey. Not a lot of re-watch potential but well worth a rent.

Audio is outstanding, especially LFE, and video is equally high quality. No question that some audio sequences venture into overload potential.
post #4 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Booth View Post

Wow, no love for 'Kon-Tiki'? I'm surprised there wasn't already a thread about the movie. It's an AMAZING movie with stunning cinematography and incredible sound. (Too intense, as described above.) The computer graphic special effects are STUNNING. It rivals 'Life of Pi' in that respect! In fact, I personally think it surpasses 'Life of Pi' because there were some elements of Pi that I could tell were CG. No so with 'Kon-Tiki'!

I sure hope someone else has invested in this wonderful movie and can give it a relatively loud listen to see if their receiver/amp handles it OK.

Mark

One can just wonder what they do with the money in Hollywood when 'Kon-Tiki' could be made for $16mill, with a VFX budget of $3mill, when 'Life of Pi' budget was $120mill.
'Kon-Tiki' was shot on location in the open sea outside Malta (and in Norway, Bulgaria, Thailand, United States (New York), Sweden, and the Maldives) and 'Life of Pi' was mostly shot in a water tank in Canada.
post #5 of 21
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

I didn't have any issues playing it with bitstream audio.

I thought it was reasonably entertaining, but the story is pretty old and we all know how it comes out. I also thought they sugar-coated the endless hardships faced on the journey. Not a lot of re-watch potential but well worth a rent.

Audio is outstanding, especially LFE, and video is equally high quality. No question that some audio sequences venture into overload potential.

It seems like the LFE sequences are what is triggering the circuit breaker on my amp. But that doesn't make sense because I have everything below 80hz sent to my subwoofer (Velodyne) so the receiver's amplifiers aren't being used for LFE.

There just seems to be something wrong with how the audio track was encoded. Particularly since it happens with the DVD too, both played in my Blu-ray player or my HD DVD player.

If I keep the master volume at -11 db or softer, the entire movie plays fine. Step up to -10 and just one spot causes problems. Step up to -6 and the circuit breaker resets are extremely frequent in the chapter described (plus more toward the end of the movie).

Mark
post #6 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Booth View Post

It seems like the LFE sequences are what is triggering the circuit breaker on my amp. But that doesn't make sense because I have everything below 80hz sent to my subwoofer (Velodyne) so the receiver's amplifiers aren't being used for LFE.

There just seems to be something wrong with how the audio track was encoded. Particularly since it happens with the DVD too, both played in my Blu-ray player or my HD DVD player.

If I keep the master volume at -11 db or softer, the entire movie plays fine. Step up to -10 and just one spot causes problems. Step up to -6 and the circuit breaker resets are extremely frequent in the chapter described (plus more toward the end of the movie).

Mark

Consult the appropriate thread for your AVR. Some of them will trip protection for clipping or overload on the input side too. If your multi-channel trim setup shows + values on some of the channels, consider dropping all levels individually. And be aware that while audio below 80Hz does consume a lot of power, so does audio between 80 and 200Hz., all of which is present in abundance on this track.
post #7 of 21
Just watched this at -1 from ref and what a fantastic audio track! Very dynamic with fantastic low end and surround support. Great PQ and excellent movie.
post #8 of 21
Great movie. Amazing soundtrack. The two dudes that directed it are doing the next Pirates of The Caribbean. Can't wait.
post #9 of 21
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

Just watched this at -1 from ref and what a fantastic audio track! Very dynamic with fantastic low end and surround support. Great PQ and excellent movie.

Was it the English language version?

If you would be so kind, could you please try it again (English language version) and crank the volume up just a little bit louder. The scene where it first starts happening is about 1 hour and 2 minutes into the movie Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
when Herman is begging Thor to use the wire to bind the raft
. Perhaps try it a 0 db or plus 1 or 2 db to see if you get any amp errors.

Today I shot off an email to customer service at Starz/Anchor Bay. I hope they'll actually respond. In the meantime, I plan to try my disc on a friend's system in the next week or so.

Mark
post #10 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Booth View Post

Was it the English language version?

If you would be so kind, could you please try it again (English language version) and crank the volume up just a little bit louder. The scene where it first starts happening is about 1 hour and 2 minutes into the movie Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
when Herman is begging Thor to use the wire to bind the raft
. Perhaps try it a 0 db or plus 1 or 2 db to see if you get any amp errors.

Today I shot off an email to customer service at Starz/Anchor Bay. I hope they'll actually respond. In the meantime, I plan to try my disc on a friend's system in the next week or so.

Mark


Hey Mark, I watched using the original Norwegian track (not the English version). I would be happy to try out what you ask, but it was a Netflix rental and went out in the mail today. Not sure I would want to go any louder as it was very dynamic and LOUD as it was when called for. I was really impressed with the audio. The low end in particular was incredibly effective and supported the on screen action VERY well.

One thing I did notice is this track was digging DEEP as my buttkickers bottomed out a number of times which usually only happens on tracks that dig deep at high levels.
post #11 of 21
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

Hey Mark, I watched using the original Norwegian track (not the English version). I would be happy to try out what you ask, but it was a Netflix rental and went out in the mail today. Not sure I would want to go any louder as it was very dynamic and LOUD as it was when called for. I was really impressed with the audio. The low end in particular was incredibly effective and supported the on screen action VERY well.

One thing I did notice is this track was digging DEEP as my buttkickers bottomed out a number of times which usually only happens on tracks that dig deep at high levels.

Since I know the spots where the problem happens, later today I'll play the Norwegian version to see it it triggers my A/V receiver's overload circuit breakers.

Yes, I believe it is the signal on the LFE channel that is triggering the overload. At the scene in question, I believe the low bass level is generated by Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
the logs of the raft thumping together. In that particular scene, the fact that the logs are loose enough to thump against each other is an important part of reasons Herman wants to bind the logs with wire. I believe the filmmakers intentionally wanted deep emphasis of the background sound of those logs banging into each other, to add to the anxiety that Herman is feeling.

Other than that, there isn't really anything in the scene in question that would seem loud enough to trigger an overload.

I think I might try setting my AVR so all bass below 200 hz gets sent to the subwoofer. That would take it away from the AVR's amp and send it to the subwoofer's amp. I normally keep the crossover set at 80 hz. I did already try it set at 100 hz. But perhaps if I go even higher it will correct the problem (if my AVR will let me set it as high as 200 hz).

Mark
post #12 of 21
Thread Starter 
Okay, I set the subwoofer crossover point in my Pioneer Elite AVR to 200 hz (to take some low bass strain off of the amps). It didn't help and 200 hz is as high as I can set it. I also tried my AVR in both standard and THX surround modes, that didn't change anything either.

I also tried the Norwegian language version of the movie. Unfortunately, I had the same "amp error" problems at the same points in the movie.

There are many spots in the scene described in previous messages that cause the amp error (overload) with my setup. But, in case anyone would like to try it out for themselves, here is one exact spot to try it with the volume of you A/V receiver at normal or slightly above normal listening levels:

English language version: 1:01:20 (one hour, one minute, 20 seconds)
Norwegian language version: 1:20:20 (one hour, 20 minutes, 20 seconds)

That spot (on both versions) triggers an amp error overload on my Pioneer Elite A/V receiver if the master volume is set to -6 db or louder.

There are other spots that trigger it with lower volumes and some that require slightly higher volumes to cause the amp error.

We have over 800 movies on Blu-ray, HD DVD and DVD, this is the first time we've ever seen a problem like this.

So far, no reply from Starz/Anchor Bay.

Mark
post #13 of 21
I've got this in my Netflix and will be viewing next week and will post my findings.

thanks for the heads up guys.
post #14 of 21
Thanks to this thread, I've added this title to my blu-ray shopping list smile.gif
post #15 of 21
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tezster View Post

Thanks to this thread, I've added this title to my blu-ray shopping list smile.gif

It really is an absolutely fantastic movie! I just watched it on Saturday, played with watching several scenes over the last few days, and could easily see myself sitting down to watch the whole thing again this evening.

Now, if only Starz/Anchor Bay would respond to my problems with amp errors.

Mark
post #16 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Booth View Post

It really is an absolutely fantastic movie! I just watched it on Saturday, played with watching several scenes over the last few days, and could easily see myself sitting down to watch the whole thing again this evening.

Now, if only Starz/Anchor Bay would respond to my problems with amp errors.

Mark

I watched this tonight and can see what may have happened , I suspect this soundtrack is mixed on the hot side by as much as 6-10db which may explain your shut down. I will see what info I can get on the matter.

Thanks for the info on the film as I and my wife loved it and will purchase it soon wink.gif
post #17 of 21
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post

I watched this tonight and can see what may have happened , I suspect this soundtrack is mixed on the hot side by as much as 6-10db which may explain your shut down. I will see what info I can get on the matter.

Thanks for the info on the film as I and my wife loved it and will purchase it soon wink.gif

Thanks! Anything you can do would be greatly appreciated! Yeah, if it's mixed hot by 6-10db that would surely explain the problem.

BTW, the dial norm I get on Kon-Tiki is +4. I need to look at some of my other titles to refresh my memory but I think most of them are more like -4 or something. Or, maybe I just remembering it wrong.

Mark
post #18 of 21
I did not get the impression the overall volume was unusually hot by 6-10db. This is definitely not the loudest track on blu. Something like STID or DKR both have louder overall tracks. I watched Kon Tiki at my normal -1 and if truly had been 6-10db hot, I would have needed to turn it down for comfortable levels. According to DB, there is some slight clipping, but nothing major. Dynamics did not even hit a full 5 on that scale as they were a 4/5.

Really not sure why this one is giving your receiver trouble Mark. The low end is the most demanding part, but considering your crossover experiments and even using just a standard 80hz cross you should be fine. I assume you have watched STID and DKR? If any track were to trip up your AVR, I would think something along the lines of these two or similar which Kon Tiki does not qualify as it is technically a more sound and in control mix.
Edited by Toe - 10/6/13 at 9:04am
post #19 of 21
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

I did not get the impression the overall volume was unusually hot by 6-10db. This is definitely not the loudest track on blu. Something like STID or DKR both have louder overall tracks. I watched Kon Tiki at my normal -1 and if truly had been 6-10db hot, I would have needed to turn it down for comfortable levels. According to DB, there is some slight clipping, but nothing major. Dynamics did not even hit a full 5 on that scale as they were a 4/5.

Really not sure why this one is giving your receiver trouble Mark. The low end is the most demanding part, but considering your crossover experiments and even using just a standard 80hz cross you should be fine. I assume you have watched STID and DKR? If any track were to trip up your AVR, I would think something along the lines of these two or similar which Kon Tiki does not qualify as it is technically a more sound and in control mix.

We showed both 'Star Trek Into Darkness' and 'The Dark Knight Rises' in the Booth Bijou Garage Theater (same equipment). Typically, our Pioneer A/V receiver's master volume is set somewhere between -4 and 0 db for the garage. Both STID and TDKR played flawlessly at those levels. No amp errors whatsoever (and we just showed STID a couple of weeks ago). But Kon-Tiki (English language version) won't get much past 1:01 without numerous amp errors at those volume levels.

Mark
Edited by Mark Booth - 10/6/13 at 4:28pm
post #20 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Booth View Post

We showed both 'Star Trek Into Darkness' and 'The Dark Knight Rises' in the Booth Bijou Garage Theater (same equipment). Typically, our Pioneer A/V receiver's master volume is set somewhere between -4 and 0 db for the garage. Both STID and TDKR played flawlessly at those levels. No amp errors whatsoever (and we just showed STID a couple of weeks ago). But Kon-Tiki (English language version) won't get much past 1:01 without numerous amp errors at those volume levels.

Mark
What might shed some light on the problem if there was a way to look at the wave form, what used to be done with an Oscilloscope or these days a waveform analyzer. What I would be looking for are peaks going off into ultrasonics above 20,000Hz, as I understand it they can do screwy things to electronics.
Another test is using headphones play the parts of the movie that cause trouble, headphones can be very revealing if something is amiss,
You might want to contact Pioneer also there may be others having similar problems but they don't post on AVS. Sorry I can't give you a definitive answer to the problem.
post #21 of 21
I love Kon Tiki and I have watched both versions more than a few times. I believe what may have triggered is the Whale Shark scene just before that. I listened to it at -10 and both my subwoofers clipped on that scene. I have never had them clip on any movie before this. Just my theory, but I'm sticking to it.wink.gif
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