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Official PSA Triax Thread - Page 86

post #2551 of 3312
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozzie Isaac View Post

I occasionally get the "we are updating the site page"

& Beeman, don't sell yourself short. You have proven yourself to be quite the poet with a number of your posts

Thanks!

Gear mentioned in this thread:

post #2552 of 3312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackmambakila View Post

Gotcha! Thanks, ill try that tonight!

Did you get a chance to try this yet?
post #2553 of 3312
Quote:
Originally Posted by raynist View Post

No problem, spirited debate is good!

On another note, has anyone had problems with this site over the last few days? My mac browser has crashed on this site 10 times tonight - it hasn't crashed once in 4 years.

I am also having problems accessing it on my iPhone and iPad too!

It's been glitchy and crashing for me too!
post #2554 of 3312
Quote:
Originally Posted by raynist View Post

Did you get a chance to try this yet?

Actually I was too anxious to play more demos ever since I got home. I'm going to rerun audyssey like you said in about 10 minutes. Is it possible at all for it to sound twice as loud and strong just by adding another Triax? I just played all kinds of samples of movies and music clips and honestly the force of both of the Triaxes seems to be almost double the damage, mostly from 40hz-80hz range! Is this possible?
post #2555 of 3312
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

I think its time for you to go diy...a third Triax is not going to add that much output. You need 4 FTW-21's in vented enclosures tuned around 17hz for that monsterous room.

That sounds just like the DIY build I'm going to be doing soon. Except I'm building two 22cu.ft enclosures each with two UXL-18's tuned to 15hz and each powered by a inuke 6000!

Oh except my room is less then 2000cu/ft biggrin.gif
post #2556 of 3312
Black with both of them up front on each side of the tv, i would gain match the amps to maximize headroom. I would also lower the gains so audyssey isn't maxxed out negative range. I also agree with the others, just put the mains in front of subs. Good luck smile.gif
post #2557 of 3312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackmambakila View Post

Actually I was too anxious to play more demos ever since I got home. I'm going to rerun audyssey like you said in about 10 minutes. Is it possible at all for it to sound twice as loud and strong just by adding another Triax? I just played all kinds of samples of movies and music clips and honestly the force of both of the Triaxes seems to be almost double the damage, mostly from 40hz-80hz range! Is this possible?
I don't think so... To sound twice as loud I believe it will take 10 times more power. 3db louder (the minimum we can hear) will take twice the power which I think would equate to adding a second Triax.
post #2558 of 3312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke Kamp View Post

Black with both of them up front on each side of the tv, i would gain match the amps to maximize headroom. I would also lower the gains so audyssey isn't maxxed out negative range. I also agree with the others, just put the mains in front of subs. Good luck smile.gif

Yep, i just ran Audyssey again and it worked! I adjusted the gains on the back of each sub until audyssey set them both at 0dbs. Then i ran the whole process and saved it. Then i turned up the gains some since i had to turn them down so low and then i set both a little hot on the receiver. Only got to play a couple samples but sounded great! I think by tomorrow ill rotate the triaxes and put the towers in front then rerun Audyssey. Im starting my break this saturday and itll be a 9 day break now woohooooo! On christmas well have a windows laptop so soon ill having some measuring gear. Only thing that worries me is that the Triax on the right corner has a +6db output advantage over the one on the left due to placement. I wonder how I can make the most out of the 2nd one.
Edited by Blackmambakila - 12/18/13 at 10:04pm
post #2559 of 3312
Quote:
Originally Posted by ellisr63 View Post

I don't think so... To sound twice as loud I believe it will take 10 times more power. 3db louder (the minimum we can hear) will take twice the power which I think would equate to adding a second Triax.

Thats what I thought but man its like night and night difference in the mid range. I dont quite get why if the 2nd one has less room gain than the corner loaded triax, how am I getting such brutal power in mid range? Feels so much more solid and pressurized. Wonder if it because of something Audyssey was able to correct with the 2nd one in play.
post #2560 of 3312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackmambakila View Post

Thats what I thought but man its like night and night difference in the mid range. I dont quite get why if the 2nd one has less room gain than the corner loaded triax, how am I getting such brutal power in mid range? Feels so much more solid and pressurized. Wonder if it because of something Audyssey was able to correct with the 2nd one in play.

Maybe one location is boosting a certain frequency that another location is lacking.
post #2561 of 3312
Quote:
Originally Posted by ellisr63 View Post

Maybe one location is boosting a certain frequency that another location is lacking.

Yeah, that would make sense. Man the mid punch slams way harder than before! I guess until I have room measuring gear, I won't know exactly what's going on. I've seen articles on multiple sub placement that showed charts of what happens when you add multiple subs. It shows by adding a 2nd sub that some levels gained from 6-10 dbs and others 3-4dbs. Then with a 3rd and 4th sub the gains were much smaller.
post #2562 of 3312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackmambakila View Post

Only thing that worries me is that the Triax on the right corner has a +6db output advantage over the one on the left due to placement. I wonder how I can make the most out of the 2nd one.


Triax on the left - Loudspeaker on floor against wall - quarter space radiation (1,0 x Pi Steradians)

Triax on the right - Laudspeaker in corner - eighth space radiation (0,5 x Pi Steradians)

0,5 Pi vs 1,0 Pi = +6 dB for 0,5 Pi placement smile.gif
post #2563 of 3312
That's why I get confused when I hear that adding a 2nd sub can only get you a gain of 3dbs max. My mid range has gained way more than that. I need to get this measuring gear soon so I can understand multi sub measuring and placement better.
post #2564 of 3312
Wow, slow down you lost me lol! I'm a newbie, could you explain what that meant? biggrin.gif
post #2565 of 3312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackmambakila View Post

Yep, i just ran Audyssey again and it worked! I adjusted the gains on the back of each sub until audyssey set them both at 0dbs. Then i ran the whole process and saved it. Then i turned up the gains some since i had to turn them down so low and then i set both a little hot on the receiver. Only got to play a couple samples but sounded great! I think by tomorrow ill rotate the triaxes and put the towers in front then rerun Audyssey. Im starting my break this saturday and itll be a 9 day break now woohooooo! On christmas well have a windows laptop so soon ill having some measuring gear. Only thing that worries me is that the Triax on the right corner has a +6db output advantage over the one on the left due to placement. I wonder how I can make the most out of the 2nd one.
you can just gain match them, thats what i would do;)
post #2566 of 3312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackmambakila View Post

Yep, i just ran Audyssey again and it worked! I adjusted the gains on the back of each sub until audyssey set them both at 0dbs. Then i ran the whole process and saved it. Then i turned up the gains some since i had to turn them down so low and then i set both a little hot on the receiver. Only got to play a couple samples but sounded great! I think by tomorrow ill rotate the triaxes and put the towers in front then rerun Audyssey. Im starting my break this saturday and itll be a 9 day break now woohooooo! On christmas well have a windows laptop so soon ill having some measuring gear. Only thing that worries me is that the Triax on the right corner has a +6db output advantage over the one on the left due to placement. I wonder how I can make the most out of the 2nd one.

If you are setting them up based on results from different locations, then that is level matching. Gain matching is making sure drivers and amps are always being driven at the same levels between the two same subs. Here read this thread for clarification.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1492771/dual-subwoofers-and-audyssey

Since you turn the gains up on subs after aud., also turning up sub level in receiver, and then cranking movies up to reference level +, IMO you can take all the headroom you can get. wink.gif

From Genelec Website:
When two or more subwoofers (except the 7050B as it does not have a sum output) are positioned close to one another mutual coupling is the fortunate by-product. This is due to the long wavelengths, associated with low frequencies, causing constructive superimposition. For mutual coupling, the subwoofers must be placed within ½ a wavelength of one another (85 Hz upper crossover frequency ½ wavelength is approximately 2 m). For example, two subwoofers give a 6 dB increase in acoustical output at the listening position

So its not just a simple +6 dB if stacked and +3 dB when separated. It is frequency wavelength based. smile.gif
Edited by Luke Kamp - 12/18/13 at 11:52pm
post #2567 of 3312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke Kamp View Post

If you are setting them up based on results from different locations, then that is level matching. Gain matching is making sure drivers and amps are always being driven at the same levels between the two same subs. Here read this thread for clarification.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1492771/dual-subwoofers-and-audyssey

Since you turn the gains up on subs after aud., also turning up sub level in receiver, and then cranking movies up to reference level +, IMO you can take all the headroom you can get. wink.gif

From Genelec Website:
When two or more subwoofers (except the 7050B as it does not have a sum output) are positioned close to one another mutual coupling is the fortunate by-product. This is due to the long wavelengths, associated with low frequencies, causing constructive superimposition. For mutual coupling, the subwoofers must be placed within ½ a wavelength of one another (85 Hz upper crossover frequency ½ wavelength is approximately 2 m). For example, two subwoofers give a 6 dB increase in acoustical output at the listening position

So its not just a simple +6 dB if stacked and +3 dB when separated. It is frequency wavelength based. smile.gif

Ok I get it, so thats why theres variances in potential output gain. Its a combination of wave lengths, sub distance from placement, ect. Im going to relocate my towers and once I get some measuring gear ill mess with sub placement and find an ideal placement combination. Thanks!
post #2568 of 3312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshjp View Post

you can just gain match them, thats what i would do;)

Yeah ive got them gain matched for now. I had so much low end output with the first Triax but i didnt realize i was lacking so much with midrange until i got the second Triax. Im sure it was due to room design. For now ive def received much improvement and i cant wait to get a chance to do some measuring!
post #2569 of 3312
Thread Starter 
Hey. Some guy is asking about selling his Trinity and purchasing a pair of XS30s. Stop by, look to the last couple of posts as in my opinion, like you, he will want a pair of Triax subwoofers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackmambakila View Post

I had so much low end output with the first Triax but i didnt realize i was lacking so much with midrange until i got the second Triax. Im sure it was due to room design. For now ive def received much improvement and i cant wait to get a chance to do some measuring!

There's something about that second, third or fourth subwoofer that brings the room alive and adds so much more depth to the overall subwoofer experience.

(and then there's the evil side where one acclimates to what they have.............and then they find themselves demanding more as the sin of greed rears it's demanding head)

-
Edited by BeeMan458 - 12/19/13 at 7:07am
post #2570 of 3312
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Hey. Some guy is asking about selling his Trinity and purchasing a pair of XS30s. Stop by, look to the last couple of posts as in my opinion, like you, he will want a pair of Triax subwoofers.
There's something about that second, third or fourth subwoofer that brings the room alive and adds so much more depth to the overall subwoofer experience.

(and then there's the evil side where one acclimates to what they have.............and then they find themselves demanding more as the sin of greed rears it's demanding head)

-

Cool, ill check it out! The 2nd sub def was a worthy upgrade, im glad about that! It helped even out performance due to room design and being that my room is a good size it now pressurizes nicely!
post #2571 of 3312
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackmambakila View Post

I had so much low end output with the first Triax but i didnt realize i was lacking so much with midrange until i got the second Triax. Im sure it was due to room design. For now ive def received much improvement and i cant wait to get a chance to do some measuring!

Last nights movie was "Jack The Giant Slayer" If you haven't seen it, the movie has lots of tactile impact bass. Highly recommended for the bass and it's an entertaining movie.

(and the $64k question: will you entertain a third Triax)

If it will fit, pretty much, ego wise, I have no choice but to hopefully add a third subwoofer as the Dark Side (greed) has taken over my subwoofer well being. tongue.gif

-
Edited by BeeMan458 - 12/19/13 at 7:43am
post #2572 of 3312
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Last nights movie was "Jack The Giant Slayer" If you haven't seen it, the movie has lots of tactile impact bass. Highly recommended for the bass and it's an entertaining movie.

(and the $64k question: will you entertain a third Triax)

If it will fit, pretty much, ego wise, I have no choice but to hopefully add a third subwoofer as the Dark Side (greed) has taken over my subwoofer well being. tongue.gif

-

That movie does have good bass soundtrack! My plan is to get some measuring gear and get the 2 subs I have placed and tapped in as good as possible. Afterwards ill be upgrading my ht speakers and hopefully call it good on this setup. If i got 2 more triaxes id stack both in the front and get crazy results and i would measure them im the rear side also. Problem is that with the 2 I have im dimming the lights so I dont have the juice to run anymore equiptment off my 15amp circuit.
post #2573 of 3312
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackmambakila View Post

Problem is that with the 2 I have im dimming the lights so I dont have the juice to run anymore equiptment off my 15amp circuit.

Maybe you can run an extension cord from the neighbor's house. tongue.gif

Sounds like a good reason to buy a house. biggrin.gif

(come again? you bought a house because you needed dedicated 20A breakers?)
post #2574 of 3312
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Maybe you can run an extension cord from the neighbor's house. tongue.gif

Sounds like a good reason to buy a house. biggrin.gif

(come again? you bought a house because you needed dedicated 20A breakers?)

The good thing is that with these 2 triaxes ill be plenty happy untill i buy a house. Plus i might get even more out of them once i start measuring. Already everything in the house is moving all over the place. Man last night we went upstairs to see what all was going on and it was insane! The fireplace, dining room table, and the entire floor was violently rattling! Im going to show it all on my next video i make during my break. Even if i had more juice if i added anymore triaxes the house would not last at all. Im real happy with the results!
post #2575 of 3312
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackmambakila View Post

Even if i had more juice if i added anymore triaxes the house would not last at all.

(what do you mean my renter's policy doesn't cover subwoofer damage?)

...LOL!

...biggrin.gif
post #2576 of 3312
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

(what do you mean my renter's policy doesn't cover subwoofer damage?)

...LOL!

Man they will be freaked out when I leave this house, i can tell therell be cracks in the walls everywhere and im just waiting for one of these ceiling lamps to explode! Once i buy a house ill be sure to have the HT room built like a tank, this is some scary power!
post #2577 of 3312
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackmambakila View Post

...this is some scary power!

With great power comes even greater responsibility. tongue.gif

That has to be totally cool.

-
Edited by BeeMan458 - 12/19/13 at 9:50am
post #2578 of 3312
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

With great power comes even bigger responsibility. tongue.gif

That has to be totally cool.

It def cool cool.gif im going to be a PSA fan for a long time! Its crazy how much different movies sound when you can actually feel all the effects.
post #2579 of 3312
Thread Starter 
Currently, warming up the amplifiers to do the first, unofficial, room EQ with our newly acquired subwoofers. Last night as we watched "Jack The Giant Slayer," one could enjoy each footstep as a giant walked around. It was great.
post #2580 of 3312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke Kamp View Post

Black with both of them up front on each side of the tv, i would gain match the amps to maximize headroom. I would also lower the gains so audyssey isn't maxxed out negative range. I also agree with the others, just put the mains in front of subs. Good luck smile.gif
Luke, are you gain match or level match your subs? Where are they located correspond to MLP? Thanks.
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