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Official PSA Triax Thread - Page 97

post #2881 of 3312
Hey - did you all know that the S2 outperforms the Triax? Read it here!! I wonder if I am still in my return window? LOL

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1503524/chest-pounding-bass-svs-ryhtmic-hsu-or-some-other-brand/30#post_24136400

Gear mentioned in this thread:

post #2882 of 3312
Quote:
Originally Posted by raynist View Post

Hey - did you all know that the S2 outperforms the Triax? Read it here!! I wonder if I am still in my return window? LOL

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1503524/chest-pounding-bass-svs-ryhtmic-hsu-or-some-other-brand/30#post_24136400

I think it would be really close between them in terms of displacement. There's a lot more to this then taking cone area and *assuming* this cone area will always operate in a linear fashion. There are advantages to spreading out the cone area/amp current to a larger number of motors/coils and I wouldn't forget about the idea of total reactive force cancellation either. Some of this doesn't lend itself to a simple multiplication table----you may have to build and measure a few hundred subwoofers to even *begin* to see/understand certain correlations in both objective performance and subjective performance(relative to component "specs")

At the end of the day, "displacement" is often given much more emphasis than it really deserves. Much like an automobile engine, displacement is one piece of a complex puzzle when looking for a truly "high performance" automobile/subwoofer. Look at the displacement "specs" for the Subm. Not very impressive. Yet that subwoofer is widely considered to be one of the very, very best available----and for good reason.

Both woofs in question are killer and I can't imagine anyone thinking one is significantly better than the other if they had a chance to A/B them in their own room.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
post #2883 of 3312
Thread Starter 
If I had that kind of money, I'd be happy to. And if someone wants to give me a pair of either, I'll be happy to keep them. tongue.gif In the meantime, considering that you can't keep the Triax in stock, what I or anybody else thinks or has to say on anything, doesn't matter as the Triax is well received by all who have purchased one, or two, or three of them.

(yes, the ULF thread has become a sonic bible for my needs and I'm good with this point)

Cause they are bored, raynist, along with shadyJ, are just stirring up controversy for the entertainment value.

(maybe they're sock puppets)

Using the figures posted in the ULF thread, as you pointed out, it's a toss up as they're both similarly priced, the Triax is better looking and the ULF thread has the output edge going toward the S2 (IIRC 0.5si units) and with authority, they both dig deeper than what our, paid for subwoofers are capable of.

And my apologies that my comment in another thread was dragged here and used by another to cause you to find need to comment.

-
Edited by BeeMan458 - 12/30/13 at 10:54am
post #2884 of 3312
Please don't for a minute lump me in with shady.

You are the one that stirs up controversy by continuously posting sub x is better than sub y when neither are have been tested.

I am just trying to show others that these are not definitive or even real results.

My post above was a joke (like the ULF thread results for untested subs) thus the LOL.
Edited by raynist - 12/30/13 at 11:17am
post #2885 of 3312
^I agree with Ray...I do enjoy the ULF thread, however I question the methodology used to determine the SI for the Triax. I still think it should at the very least equal a S2.
post #2886 of 3312
So I found this demo song right now, where the bass stays from 125-128dbs the whole time from MLP on the chair. Not saying I would do it (cough, cough) lol but if I added 2 more Triaxes and stacked them to the two up front, what could that same song be measuring?
post #2887 of 3312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackmambakila View Post

So I found this demo song right now, where the bass stays from 125-128dbs the whole time from MLP on the chair. Not saying I would do it (cough, cough) lol but if I added 2 more Triaxes and stacked them to the two up front, what could that same song be measuring?

Man, you need professional help.....lol biggrin.gif
post #2888 of 3312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saturn94 View Post

Man, you need professional help.....lol biggrin.gif

Hey Im just wanting a little kick lol! Im addicted to bass, the only cure is more bass smile.gif Saturn, you would support me right?
post #2889 of 3312
130 dbs feels good, but what does 140 dbs feel like? eek.gif Man itd be awesome to get that feeling!
post #2890 of 3312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackmambakila View Post

130 dbs feels good, but what does 140 dbs feel like? eek.gif Man itd be awesome to get that feeling!

140db is pointless...you will not be able to tolerate those levels for any length of time. I had 2 15's in a truck that would do 148db and I could only turn it up for short bursts. Once you get at that level, the only point is for spl contests or short demos.
post #2891 of 3312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackmambakila View Post

Hey Im just wanting a little kick lol! Im addicted to bass, the only cure is more bass smile.gif Saturn, you would support me right?

Sure.....more power to you. I'm just envious......I have to suffer with just one Triax....lol
post #2892 of 3312
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

140db is pointless...you will not be able to tolerate those levels for any length of time. I had 2 15's in a truck that would do 148db and I could only turn it up for short bursts. Once you get at that level, the only point is for spl contests or short demos.

Man 148! Thats awesome Basshead! I start feeling good at 125-130dbs, but I think 140dbs for short burst would be just my taste. Just an idea though. I just realized that I have a seperate circuit down here next to my room! Got me thinking, hmmm it would be nice but not sure if id go for it.
post #2893 of 3312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saturn94 View Post

Sure.....more power to you. I'm just envious......I have to suffer with just one Triax....lol

Thats why your invited! Youd be welcome whenever you come by this way! Man itd be awesome but depends if the idea bothers me for too long lol my tolerance builds too fast, it sucks lol
post #2894 of 3312
Its scary because i started picturing 2 triaxes stacked up front and thats not a good thing. I was probably zoning out, i need to slap myself and wake up lol!
post #2895 of 3312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackmambakila View Post

Thats why your invited! Youd be welcome whenever you come by this way! Man itd be awesome but depends if the idea bothers me for too long lol my tolerance builds too fast, it sucks lol

It's been a long time since I've been to Montana (do I remember correctly your in Montana?). I have been to Whitfish on a ski vacation and visited relatives in Lakeside (Flathead Valley area)......beautiful place. smile.gif
post #2896 of 3312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackmambakila View Post

Man 148! Thats awesome Basshead! I start feeling good at 125-130dbs, but I think 140dbs for short burst would be just my taste. Just an idea though. I just realized that I have a seperate circuit down here next to my room! Got me thinking, hmmm it would be nice but not sure if id go for it.

You might get more out of those Triax's if you utilized that separate circuit. I am suprised you are not getting into the 130's if you hit 129 with the Trinity.
post #2897 of 3312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saturn94 View Post

It's been a long time since I've been to Montana (do I remember correctly your in Montana?). I have been to Whitfish on a ski vacation and visited relatives in Lakeside (Flathead Valley area)......beautiful place. smile.gif

Wyoming smile.gif still in the middle of nowhere though lol
post #2898 of 3312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackmambakila View Post

Wyoming smile.gif still in the middle of nowhere though lol

Ah, my mistake. My only visit to Wyoming was a day trip to Devil's Tower (we were staying in the Black Hills area of SD). Devil's Tower was cool as Sh**!

post #2899 of 3312
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

You might get more out of those Triax's if you utilized that separate circuit. I am suprised you are not getting into the 130's if you hit 129 with the Trinity.

Not sure, I think with the Triaxes im getting alot more output in the low range than with the Trinity and they seem to flex the house way more. The bass is more clean and tight also. Hmmm so I could try plugging one into a seperate circuit to see if it gives them even more output, good idea!
post #2900 of 3312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saturn94 View Post

Ah, my mistake. My only visit to Wyoming was a day trip to Devil's Tower (we were staying in the Black Hills area of SD). Devil's Tower was cool as Sh**!

Never been there, sounds scary! eek.gif Man I wish I could have a visitor here, im getting bored of beating my family with bass lol! I need someone different for a change smile.gif
post #2901 of 3312
Here is an interesting qoute from a website about low frequencies at high levels, and what they can do...

"12 Cycles Per Second (Hz) - Walt Disney and his artists accidentally experienced infrasound on one occasion. A cartoon sound effect was slowed from 60 cycles per second to 12 cycles per second via a tape-editing machine and was amplified through the theater system. The resulting tone, though brief in duration, produced in the entire crowd nausea that lingered for several days.
100 Cycles Per Second (Hz) - At this level, a person experiences irritation, "mild nausea, giddiness, skin flushing, and body tingling." Following this, a person undergoes "vertigo, anxiety, extreme fatigue, throat pressure, and respiratory dysfunction." (source; the Sonic Weapon of Vladimir Gavreau, by Gerry Vassilatos)


60 - 73 Cycles Per Second (Hz) - "coughing, severe sternal pressure, choking, excessive salivation, extreme swallowing pains, inability to breathe, headache, and abdominal pain" were present. In the post exposure phase, test subjects continued to cough, exhibit fatigue, and have skin flushing for up to four hours. (Source - THE SONIC WEAPON OF VLADIMIR GAVREAU, by Gerry Vassilatos)
WALL CURRENT - In the United States, wall current is 60 cycles per second (Hz). In Europe, the wall current is 50 cycles per second. Since European current has a lower cycle, an observer can actually see light bulbs slightly flicker.


43 - 73 Cycles Per Second (Hz) - lack of visual acuity, IQ scores fall to 77% of normal, distortion of spatial orientation, poor muscular coordination, loss of equilibrium, slurred speech, and blackout.
1 - 10 Cycles Per Second (Hz) - "Lethal infrasonic pitch lies in the 7 cycle range. Small amplitude increases affect human behavior in this range. Intellectual activity is first inhibited, blocked, and then destroyed. As the amplitude is increased, several disconcerting responses have been noted. These responses begin a complete neurological interference. The action of the medulla is physiologically blocked, its autonomic functions cease." (source; the Sonic Weapon of Vladimir Gavreau, by Gerry Vassilatos)


50 - 100 Cycles Per Second (Hz) - at 150 dB and higher, "intolerable sensations in the chest and thoracic region can be produced - even with the ears protected. Other physiological changes that can occur include chest all vibration and some respiratory rhythm changes in human subjects, together with hypopharyngeal fullness (gagging). The frequency range between 50 and 100 Hz also produces mild nausea and giddiness at levels of 150 - 155 dB, at which point subjective tolerance is reached. At 150 to 155 dB (0.63 to 1.1 kPA), respiration-related effects include substernal discomfort, coughing, severe substernal pressure, choking respiration, and hypopharyngeal discomfort." (source; 'Acoustic Trauma: Bioeffects of Sound,' by Alex Davies)
7 Cycles Per Second (Hz) - The most profound effects at this infrasonic level occur here. Seven Hz "corresponds with the median alpha-rhythm frequencies of the brain. It is also commonly alleged that this is the resonant frequency of the body's organs and hence organ rupture and death can occur at high-intensity exposures." (source; 'Acoustic Trauma: Bioeffects of Sound,' by Alex Davies)


Scientific Applications and Research Associates (SARA) - This agency's alleged infrasound research showed, "infrasound at 110 - 130 dB would cause intestinal pain and severe nausea. Extreme levels of annoyance or distraction would result from minutes of exposure to levels 90 to 120 dB at low frequencies (5 to 200 Hz), strong physical trauma and damage to tissues at 140 - 150 dB, and instantaneous blastwave type trauma at above 170 dB. At low frequencies, resonance's in the body would cause hemorrhage and spasm/ in the mid-audio range (0.5 to 2.5 kHz), resonance's in the air cavities of the body would cause nerve irritation, tissue trauma and heating; high audio and ultrasound frequencies (5 to 30 kHz) would cause heating up to lethal body temperatures, tissue burns, and dehydration; and at high frequencies, or with short pulses, bubbles would form from cavitation and micro-lesions in tissue would evolve." (source; 'Acoustic Trauma: Bioeffects of Sound,' by Alex Davies)
Infrasound Toxicological Summary, November 2001 - "When male volunteers were exposed to simulated industrial infrasound of 5 and 10 Hz and levels of 100 and 135 dB for 15 minutes, feelings of fatigue, apathy, and depression, pressure in the ears, loss of concentration, drowsiness, and vibration of internal organs were reported. In addition, effects were found in the central nervous system, the cardiovascular system, and the respiratory system. Synchronization phenomena were enhanced in the left hemisphere. Visual motor responses to stimuli were prolonged, and the strength of the effect was reduced. Heart rate was increased during the initial minutes of exposure. Depression of the encephalic hemodynamics with decreased venous flow from the skull cavity was observed. Heart muscle contraction strength was reduced. Respiration rate was significantly reduced after the first minute of exposure."



The U. S. Navy has an anti-submarine device called Low Frequency Active (LFA) sonar. It emits 240 dB. Damage was possibly done to whales and dolphins, causing them to beach. Whales avoid areas with 120 dB or above. The Navy sets 140 dB as the maximum level of safe exposure to humans.
Long pipe organs, such as those found in churches and cathedrals produce infrasound. In one UK study, the extreme bass frequencies instilled strange feelings at a concert hall. Effects were "extreme sense of sorrow, coldness, anxiety, and even shivers down the spine." (source; Organ Music Instills Religious Feelings,' by Jonathan Amos, 9/8/2003)"

This was found here... http://www.lowertheboom.org/trice/infrasound.htm
post #2902 of 3312
Quote:
Originally Posted by ellisr63 View Post

Here is an interesting qoute from a website about low frequencies at high levels, and what they can do...

"12 Cycles Per Second (Hz) - Walt Disney and his artists accidentally experienced infrasound on one occasion. A cartoon sound effect was slowed from 60 cycles per second to 12 cycles per second via a tape-editing machine and was amplified through the theater system. The resulting tone, though brief in duration, produced in the entire crowd nausea that lingered for several days.
100 Cycles Per Second (Hz) - At this level, a person experiences irritation, "mild nausea, giddiness, skin flushing, and body tingling." Following this, a person undergoes "vertigo, anxiety, extreme fatigue, throat pressure, and respiratory dysfunction." (source; the Sonic Weapon of Vladimir Gavreau, by Gerry Vassilatos)


60 - 73 Cycles Per Second (Hz) - "coughing, severe sternal pressure, choking, excessive salivation, extreme swallowing pains, inability to breathe, headache, and abdominal pain" were present. In the post exposure phase, test subjects continued to cough, exhibit fatigue, and have skin flushing for up to four hours. (Source - THE SONIC WEAPON OF VLADIMIR GAVREAU, by Gerry Vassilatos)
WALL CURRENT - In the United States, wall current is 60 cycles per second (Hz). In Europe, the wall current is 50 cycles per second. Since European current has a lower cycle, an observer can actually see light bulbs slightly flicker.


43 - 73 Cycles Per Second (Hz) - lack of visual acuity, IQ scores fall to 77% of normal, distortion of spatial orientation, poor muscular coordination, loss of equilibrium, slurred speech, and blackout.
1 - 10 Cycles Per Second (Hz) - "Lethal infrasonic pitch lies in the 7 cycle range. Small amplitude increases affect human behavior in this range. Intellectual activity is first inhibited, blocked, and then destroyed. As the amplitude is increased, several disconcerting responses have been noted. These responses begin a complete neurological interference. The action of the medulla is physiologically blocked, its autonomic functions cease." (source; the Sonic Weapon of Vladimir Gavreau, by Gerry Vassilatos)


50 - 100 Cycles Per Second (Hz) - at 150 dB and higher, "intolerable sensations in the chest and thoracic region can be produced - even with the ears protected. Other physiological changes that can occur include chest all vibration and some respiratory rhythm changes in human subjects, together with hypopharyngeal fullness (gagging). The frequency range between 50 and 100 Hz also produces mild nausea and giddiness at levels of 150 - 155 dB, at which point subjective tolerance is reached. At 150 to 155 dB (0.63 to 1.1 kPA), respiration-related effects include substernal discomfort, coughing, severe substernal pressure, choking respiration, and hypopharyngeal discomfort." (source; 'Acoustic Trauma: Bioeffects of Sound,' by Alex Davies)
7 Cycles Per Second (Hz) - The most profound effects at this infrasonic level occur here. Seven Hz "corresponds with the median alpha-rhythm frequencies of the brain. It is also commonly alleged that this is the resonant frequency of the body's organs and hence organ rupture and death can occur at high-intensity exposures." (source; 'Acoustic Trauma: Bioeffects of Sound,' by Alex Davies)


Scientific Applications and Research Associates (SARA) - This agency's alleged infrasound research showed, "infrasound at 110 - 130 dB would cause intestinal pain and severe nausea. Extreme levels of annoyance or distraction would result from minutes of exposure to levels 90 to 120 dB at low frequencies (5 to 200 Hz), strong physical trauma and damage to tissues at 140 - 150 dB, and instantaneous blastwave type trauma at above 170 dB. At low frequencies, resonance's in the body would cause hemorrhage and spasm/ in the mid-audio range (0.5 to 2.5 kHz), resonance's in the air cavities of the body would cause nerve irritation, tissue trauma and heating; high audio and ultrasound frequencies (5 to 30 kHz) would cause heating up to lethal body temperatures, tissue burns, and dehydration; and at high frequencies, or with short pulses, bubbles would form from cavitation and micro-lesions in tissue would evolve." (source; 'Acoustic Trauma: Bioeffects of Sound,' by Alex Davies)
Infrasound Toxicological Summary, November 2001 - "When male volunteers were exposed to simulated industrial infrasound of 5 and 10 Hz and levels of 100 and 135 dB for 15 minutes, feelings of fatigue, apathy, and depression, pressure in the ears, loss of concentration, drowsiness, and vibration of internal organs were reported. In addition, effects were found in the central nervous system, the cardiovascular system, and the respiratory system. Synchronization phenomena were enhanced in the left hemisphere. Visual motor responses to stimuli were prolonged, and the strength of the effect was reduced. Heart rate was increased during the initial minutes of exposure. Depression of the encephalic hemodynamics with decreased venous flow from the skull cavity was observed. Heart muscle contraction strength was reduced. Respiration rate was significantly reduced after the first minute of exposure."



The U. S. Navy has an anti-submarine device called Low Frequency Active (LFA) sonar. It emits 240 dB. Damage was possibly done to whales and dolphins, causing them to beach. Whales avoid areas with 120 dB or above. The Navy sets 140 dB as the maximum level of safe exposure to humans.
Long pipe organs, such as those found in churches and cathedrals produce infrasound. In one UK study, the extreme bass frequencies instilled strange feelings at a concert hall. Effects were "extreme sense of sorrow, coldness, anxiety, and even shivers down the spine." (source; Organ Music Instills Religious Feelings,' by Jonathan Amos, 9/8/2003)"

This was found here... http://www.lowertheboom.org/trice/infrasound.htm

Hey where have you been? smile.gif man so I can scare away whales too? Awesome!!!
post #2903 of 3312
I need to get that Walt Disney demo clip, perfect for my collection! Good article! biggrin.gif
post #2904 of 3312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackmambakila View Post

Hey where have you been? smile.gif man so I can scare away whales too? Awesome!!!
Been collecting parts for modding my LaScalas to 2 ways. I hope to have them completed by the weekend. How have you been?
post #2905 of 3312
Quote:
Originally Posted by ellisr63 View Post

Been collecting parts for modding my LaScalas to 2 ways. I hope to have them completed by the weekend. How have you been?

Man its been a good holiday season, now ive got a couple more days off for new years! Just got my feet wet with REW, im going to do another round tomorrow. Its been quiet with out you around, i knew you were up to something! Youve been in the mad scientist mode planning your upgrade I see!!! biggrin.gif
post #2906 of 3312
Anyone know if they'll be adding a sub like the xs30 but with the triad woofers? Or a single sub with the triad woofer?
post #2907 of 3312
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saturn94 View Post

Sure.....more power to you. I'm just envious......I have to suffer with just one Triax....lol

All things being equal, I'm sure you're already working on a solution. biggrin.gif
post #2908 of 3312
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackmambakila View Post

Thats why your invited! Youd be welcome whenever you come by this way! Man itd be awesome but depends if the idea bothers me for too long lol my tolerance builds too fast, it sucks lol

In my opinion, tolerance, is a good description of bass addiction.
post #2909 of 3312
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ellisr63 View Post

Here is an interesting qoute from a website about low frequencies at high levels, and what they can do..

At this point, it's quite obvious, we're seriously immune to the above in the same way I'm immune to poison oak.

...biggrin.gif
post #2910 of 3312
So black....anymore graphs??
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