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Official OPPO BDP-103D (Darbee Edition) Owner's Thread - Page 74

post #2191 of 3687
Is anyone using the player with a Harmony remote?
I have the Harmony One and when having the 103D in an activity, it takes a long time "turning on".
I am not sure what it is doing but one thing that can be seen is that it is selecting HDMI input.
I would like to speed up that process somehow.
post #2192 of 3687
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickardl View Post

Is anyone using the player with a Harmony remote?
I have the Harmony One and when having the 103D in an activity, it takes a long time "turning on".
I am not sure what it is doing but one thing that can be seen is that it is selecting HDMI input.
I would like to speed up that process somehow.

Look in manual page 75 - device setup - standby mode - quick start - should speed-up the process!
post #2193 of 3687
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob brennan View Post

Look in manual page 75 - device setup - standby mode - quick start - should speed-up the process!
Thanks, but it is not really the actual startup time of the 103D that is slow.
It is the Harmony that is sending commands or waiting that is taking a long time.
It takes 30 seconds to finish it's processing, with or without the quick start enabled in the 103D,
It didn't take that long with my old BDP-83 so there must be some extra stuff that has been
added in the Harmony Remote database for the 103D.
post #2194 of 3687
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickardl View Post

Thanks, but it is not really the actual startup time of the 103D that is slow.
It is the Harmony that is sending commands or waiting that is taking a long time.
It takes 30 seconds to finish it's processing, with or without the quick start enabled in the 103D,
It didn't take that long with my old BDP-83 so there must be some extra stuff that has been
added in the Harmony Remote database for the 103D.

I've had to set delays on my projectors for input selection after powering them up, it is possible that someone has done this and is now in the database like you said. You should be able to go into the settings with your computer and alter the delay timings, I can't remember how to get to them at the moment though. You might try searching for "delay settings for harmony", or something along those lines.
post #2195 of 3687
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickardl View Post

Thanks, but it is not really the actual startup time of the 103D that is slow.
It is the Harmony that is sending commands or waiting that is taking a long time.
It takes 30 seconds to finish it's processing, with or without the quick start enabled in the 103D,
It didn't take that long with my old BDP-83 so there must be some extra stuff that has been
added in the Harmony Remote database for the 103D.

I'm using a Harmony 880 - in activities - settings - you can control the order that the devices start

In devices - settings - adjust the delays - you can control the speed in which the signal is sent to a device.

Don't know if the same for a Harmony One but most of Logitech's devices are similar.

OR call OPPO - best tech support in the world!!!!!!!
post #2196 of 3687
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickardl View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by bob brennan View Post

Look in manual page 75 - device setup - standby mode - quick start - should speed-up the process!
Thanks, but it is not really the actual startup time of the 103D that is slow.
It is the Harmony that is sending commands or waiting that is taking a long time.
It takes 30 seconds to finish it's processing, with or without the quick start enabled in the 103D,
It didn't take that long with my old BDP-83 so there must be some extra stuff that has been
added in the Harmony Remote database for the 103D.

You can see all the commands and delays the Harmony is using if you explore your configuration. You can see the commands, plus any manually inserted delays, in the display that allows you to add more commands when going into an activity.

You can see the automatic delays if you follow the troubleshooting steps. There are specified delays (for each Device) for Power ON, for Input Selection, and between Commands. The other piece that comes into play is the Repeat Count, which is how many times a Command gets sent (for Devices that won't believe a Command is for them unless they see it 2 or 3 times in a row). (One thing that's a bit confusing about the Delays is that the Harmony will attempt to send Command to OTHER Devices while counting down a Delay for some specific Device.)

Odds are you simply need to go in and adjust the default Delays the Harmony has in its data for the 103D Device.
--Bob
post #2197 of 3687
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

Regarding 3D and ghosting, I have seen it on a couple of discs with the 103D and pro cal'd Panasonic 65VT60. However, I have yet to compare it to another 3D player. Jurassic Park 3D in particular is almost unwatchable on my display as the ghosting is so bad, but I have heard this disc does give some 'active' displays issues because of the way the disc is encoded (doesn't surprise me with Universal lol). I see very slight occasional ghosting with The Hobbit extended 3D version, as well.

The thing about Crosstalk for 3D is that it's not something the player can generate. The two eye-views are distinct as far as the player is concerned. It would have to REALLY screw up the decoding to generate "Crosstalk" between them -- and that would be way too obvious in other ways.

Real Crosstalk is an inherent attribute of the Display and its goofy glasses.

What can happen, however, is that the video calibration of a new player is different from what you are used to using from some other player -- thus REVEALING the inherent Crosstalk issues of the Display/Glasses. It may very well be that the new player's calibration is more CORRECT than the prior player. You just have to check and see.

Also, all the usual caveats hold about any time you add a new device to your system. It is extremely easy to forget to duplicate some video calibration setting you were using on the other display input for the other source device.
--Bob
post #2198 of 3687
Quote:
Originally Posted by action_jackson View Post

I've had to set delays on my projectors for input selection after powering them up, it is possible that someone has done this and is now in the database like you said. You should be able to go into the settings with your computer and alter the delay timings, I can't remember how to get to them at the moment though. You might try searching for "delay settings for harmony", or something along those lines.
Yes, I found this discussion http://logitech.lithium.com/t5/Harmony-Remotes/Oppo-BDP-103-103D-input-selection-bug/td-p/1113797/page/2
and apparently it takes some time for the Oppo to accept input switching commands.
The power on delay was set to 25 seconds! Since I don't need/want any input selection taking place, I only use blu-ray,
I changed that to 1 second and the total startup processing for Oppo, receiver and TV went down to 4-5 seconds which is more acceptable.
post #2199 of 3687
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

^ Have you talked to OPPO? I know of no complaints of crosstalk in the 103D.
--Bob
I too noticed more Crosstalk with the Oppo 103D. I wouldn't return it but it's definitely noticeable. I am hoping it is something that will get tweaked with a firmware update. Noticed it the most in the 3D montage in the Spears & Munsil disk.
post #2200 of 3687
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickardl View Post

Yes, I found this discussion http://logitech.lithium.com/t5/Harmony-Remotes/Oppo-BDP-103-103D-input-selection-bug/td-p/1113797/page/2
and apparently it takes some time for the Oppo to accept input switching commands.
The power on delay was set to 25 seconds! Since I don't need/want any input selection taking place, I only use blu-ray,
I changed that to 1 second and the total startup processing for Oppo, receiver and TV went down to 4-5 seconds which is more acceptable.

made the change with my Harmony 880 ( 1 second) and all is well! I leave the 103D on rear input since I run cable through the OPPO to AV receiver and out to 65ZT
post #2201 of 3687
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob brennan View Post

made the change with my Harmony 880 ( 1 second) and all is well! I leave the 103D on rear input since I run cable through the OPPO to AV receiver and out to 65ZT

Quote:
Originally Posted by rickardl View Post

Yes, I found this discussion http://logitech.lithium.com/t5/Harmony-Remotes/Oppo-BDP-103-103D-input-selection-bug/td-p/1113797/page/2
and apparently it takes some time for the Oppo to accept input switching commands.
The power on delay was set to 25 seconds! Since I don't need/want any input selection taking place, I only use blu-ray,
I changed that to 1 second and the total startup processing for Oppo, receiver and TV went down to 4-5 seconds which is more acceptable.

Glad to see that sped things up a bit. That reminds me, I need to take out the delay on my projector since I'm only using one input now...
post #2202 of 3687
Quote:
Originally Posted by ttringle View Post

I too noticed more Crosstalk with the Oppo 103D. I wouldn't return it but it's definitely noticeable. I am hoping it is something that will get tweaked with a firmware update. Noticed it the most in the 3D montage in the Spears & Munsil disk.
Do you have any specific scene/timestamp where I could look for crosstalk in the montage?
post #2203 of 3687
I own both JVC RS45 & Benq 1070 projectors. Last night I made some tests using A Turtle's Tale 3D with both projectors and the 103D. This film is a torture test for ghosting and it can be seen immediately on my JVC RS45. I switched to the Benq 1070 a D.L.P projector and there was no ghosting at all. I tried a few other films and experienced no ghosting with the Benq 1070 and the 103D. Having done this test I would suspect that the issue is probably with the display or glasses. In the past those things have been the usual reason for ghosting and crosstalk.
post #2204 of 3687
Quote:
Originally Posted by ttringle View Post

I too noticed more Crosstalk with the Oppo 103D. I wouldn't return it but it's definitely noticeable. I am hoping it is something that will get tweaked with a firmware update. Noticed it the most in the 3D montage in the Spears & Munsil disk.

The player cannot generate crosstalk in 3D video, this is strictly a display issue. There may be some variables in picture adjustment that could make it more visible, but again this is a display calibration issue not a player issue. As always, the most common issue would be that you are using different inputs on the display which are not calibrated the same. Be aware that most displays remember completely different calibrations settings for 3D input, even on the same HDMI port. So you need a 3D source to trigger the display's specific calibration for that input. The new S&M disc is one such possible source.
post #2205 of 3687
Quote:
Originally Posted by rwestley View Post

I own both JVC RS45 & Benq 1070 projectors. Last night I made some tests using A Turtle's Tale 3D with both projectors and the 103D. This film is a torture test for ghosting and it can be seen immediately on my JVC RS45. I switched to the Benq 1070 a D.L.P projector and there was no ghosting at all. I tried a few other films and experienced no ghosting with the Benq 1070 and the 103D. Having done this test I would suspect that the issue is probably with the display or glasses. In the past those things have been the usual reason for ghosting and crosstalk.

It's been my understanding (since I can't tolerate 3D tongue.gif, this is just from hearsay) that DLP projectors are MUCH better than LCD or LCOS projectors when viewing 3D. I believe it has to do with DLP frame rates being significantly higher than these others (I think plasma displays are better with 3D as well).
post #2206 of 3687
Quote:
Originally Posted by rwestley View Post

I own both JVC RS45 & Benq 1070 projectors. Last night I made some tests using A Turtle's Tale 3D with both projectors and the 103D. This film is a torture test for ghosting and it can be seen immediately on my JVC RS45. I switched to the Benq 1070 a D.L.P projector and there was no ghosting at all. I tried a few other films and experienced no ghosting with the Benq 1070 and the 103D. Having done this test I would suspect that the issue is probably with the display or glasses. In the past those things have been the usual reason for ghosting and crosstalk.
Thankyou... Been waiting for someone with a dlp PJ to check in.
post #2207 of 3687
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

The player cannot generate crosstalk in 3D video, this is strictly a display issue. There may be some variables in picture adjustment that could make it more visible, but again this is a display calibration issue not a player issue. As always, the most common issue would be that you are using different inputs on the display which are not calibrated the same. Be aware that most displays remember completely different calibrations settings for 3D input, even on the same HDMI port. So you need a 3D source to trigger the display's specific calibration for that input. The new S&M disc is one such possible source.
While I appreciate your input, what I am taking about is Crosstalk and it wasn't simply a calibration error that was making it worse. But you are correct in it was the 3D settings on the display that were the key to reducing it and or removing it as I know the Panasonic ST60 does not have the best 3D performance. Once I adjusted the 3D Effect in the set I was able to achieve the same level of 3D without the crosstalk that was introduced after switching to the BDP103D from the PS3. Thanks for the help.
Edited by ttringle - 1/15/14 at 10:47am
post #2208 of 3687
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

The player cannot generate crosstalk in 3D video,

No offense but I don't see how definitive statements like that can be true, since the player is just as capable of introducing errors into the image as anything else.
Edited by ttringle - 1/15/14 at 10:58am
post #2209 of 3687
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickardl View Post

Do you have any specific scene/timestamp where I could look for crosstalk in the montage?

Specifically the scenes that stood out for me with my crosstalk issues were as follows.

1:06 along the vertical sides of columns, where i would see it. Pausing on the 103D as opposed to others does not turn off the 3D effect which made it easier to adjust the 3D effect on my set till it was reduced or gone entirely.

4:40 along the sides of the left most tower in the plant.

Really any vertical surfaces could do it until I had adjusted the 3D Effect settings. I also tweaked the refresh rates for 3D on my set as well but I have not watched a full 3D movie as of yet so I may play with those settings more as I go. I ended up leaving the 3D depth settings at their defaults for the Oppo for now.
post #2210 of 3687
I see now they 105D is out,its on oppo dot com.
post #2211 of 3687
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chise View Post

I see now they 105D is out,its on oppo dot com.

I was expecting this after the "leak" in autumn from a Chinese certification facilitator (or whatever it was) - listing the 105D among other models :-D
Edited by Webmonkey - 1/15/14 at 12:07pm
post #2212 of 3687
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chise View Post

I see now they 105D is out,its on oppo dot com.
It figures, as I just purchased the 103D.
post #2213 of 3687
Quote:
Originally Posted by ttringle View Post


Really any vertical surfaces could do it until I had adjusted the 3D Effect settings.

I'm in the camp that bluray players SHOULD NOT introduce crosstalk… that is, as essentially a 'two-channel' digital signal, that is passed to the display as such, unless the manufacturer has made a fundamental error in their processing (NASA did make an english/metric conversion that led to the loss of a planetary probe, you know!), the player will not introduce crosstalk. Mistakes do happen, however, so it is conceivable that a player introduces crosstalk (and such an error should be corrected with a firmware update). One other thought… many people confuse crosstalk with the ability to focus at increased parallax . If adjusting the 3D settings changes your perception of crosstalk, I have to ask… can you see a difference in crosstalk with one eye closed, or just a change in parallax with the same level of crosstalk? Not saying you are confusing them, just wanted to check, as many do confuse the two.
post #2214 of 3687
Quote:
Originally Posted by ttringle View Post

It figures, as I just purchased the 103D.

Haha - I thought it only happens to me - seems that when I bought something - 3 months later there is a model out - has made me a heavy fence sitter :-D
post #2215 of 3687
Quote:
Originally Posted by Webmonkey View Post

Haha - I thought it only happens to me - seems that when I bought something - 3 months later there is a model out - has made me a heavy fence sitter :-D
Luckily Its not that much of an issue as I am over 40 and while I appreciate higher than average audio i.e.; DTS MA HD etc, I am not going to spend an additional $600 for what comes with the 105D.

I am happy with what I have in the 103D.3
post #2216 of 3687
Quote:
Originally Posted by dougri View Post

I'm in the camp that bluray players SHOULD NOT introduce crosstalk… that is, as essentially a 'two-channel' digital signal, that is passed to the display as such, unless the manufacturer has made a fundamental error in their processing (NASA did make an english/metric conversion that led to the loss of a planetary probe, you know!), the player will not introduce crosstalk. Mistakes do happen, however, so it is conceivable that a player introduces crosstalk (and such an error should be corrected with a firmware update). One other thought… many people confuse crosstalk with the ability to focus at increased parallax . If adjusting the 3D settings changes your perception of crosstalk, I have to ask… can you see a difference in crosstalk with one eye closed, or just a change in parallax with the same level of crosstalk? Not saying you are confusing them, just wanted to check, as many do confuse the two.

Engineering aside (I don't get down to the level that some here might, When adjusting the settings that fixed my crosstalk issue I could definitely tell when looking at it without the glasses. Looking at it through one eye with the glasses should be literally impossible as you should then only be looking at one of the two images that makes the 3D possible. Just as if you looked at some objects in real life that were varying instances from you and closed one of your eyes, you would lose the ability to see depth at that point.

In my case 3D has never been a priority for me, and in fact I was more interested in Region free (which I only found afterwards was no longer a feature of the Oppos, without modification) as I have taken to buying UK steelbook blurays lately and want a way to play them without having to rip them first.
post #2217 of 3687
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

The thing about Crosstalk for 3D is that it's not something the player can generate. The two eye-views are distinct as far as the player is concerned. It would have to REALLY screw up the decoding to generate "Crosstalk" between them -- and that would be way too obvious in other ways.

Real Crosstalk is an inherent attribute of the Display and its goofy glasses.

What can happen, however, is that the video calibration of a new player is different from what you are used to using from some other player -- thus REVEALING the inherent Crosstalk issues of the Display/Glasses. It may very well be that the new player's calibration is more CORRECT than the prior player. You just have to check and see.

Also, all the usual caveats hold about any time you add a new device to your system. It is extremely easy to forget to duplicate some video calibration setting you were using on the other display input for the other source device.
--Bob

Interesting. I have not fooled around with any settings because the issue was only seen on two discs; other discs were fine.
post #2218 of 3687
Quote:
Originally Posted by ttringle View Post

Engineering aside (I don't get down to the level that some here might, When adjusting the settings that fixed my crosstalk issue I could definitely tell when looking at it without the glasses. Looking at it through one eye with the glasses should be literally impossible as you should then only be looking at one of the two images that makes the 3D possible. Just as if you looked at some objects in real life that were varying instances from you and closed one of your eyes, you would lose the ability to see depth at that point.

In my case 3D has never been a priority for me, and in fact I was more interested in Region free (which I only found afterwards was no longer a feature of the Oppos, without modification) as I have taken to buying UK steelbook blurays lately and want a way to play them without having to rip them first.

If you cannot see a faint image of the closed eye, then what you are seeing is not crosstalk... that is the very definition of crosstalk. If you have too much parallax for your eyes, it can be EXTREMELY annoying because your eyes can't focus portions of the 3D image (I have seen this in theaters as well as at home... I have fairly narrow set eyes). So... find that scene that you had issues with, pause it (as I understand, the 103D sends 3D when paused... some don't), and close one eye... then switch. If you cannot see 'outlines', shifted areas of color, and such that indicate part of the right eye image is making it through the left eye glasses or vice-versa, then you are not seeing crosstalk. That you can largely eliminate what you are seeing by playing with the 3D settings in the player, leads me to believe you are just tailoring the parallax to your eyes.
post #2219 of 3687
A little late, but I did what you suggested with excellent results. I ran the component out on my Pioneer changer through the Pioneer receiver using "pure through" which converts component to HDMI but performs no other processing, I then ran the HDMI out from the receiver to the OPPO which allows it to do all the conversion to 1080P plus Darbee. For well mastered DVDs the results are very impressive almost HIdef. Unfortunately bad DVDs still look bad. As they say you cant polish a turd.. overall very pleased with result, thanks for your help.
post #2220 of 3687
So does it do the Darbee processing for video over DLNA as well?

I have an ISCAN VP50. Was wondering if anyone had a scaler before getting the 103D and if the 103D would be superior in processing than my VP50
Edited by fmzip - 1/15/14 at 5:18pm
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